child bitten by our OES
Her temperament is typically placid, she is a quiet girl, house trained, understands basic commands, and is very loving. In the past week we have had two similar incidents and don't know what steps to take next. On Tuesday the dog was sleeping and when approached by a friend who was attempting to cuddle her (who she sees daily and took care of here for two weeks in July), woke snarling with head shaking and teeth bared; she cut the lip of our friend. Behavior after the event and until today has been perfect. This evening before bed time our 10 year old daughter goes to May who is resting, laid on the floor, my daughter strokes her 4-5 times then goes to kiss her head, exactly the same reaction - a tooth has punctured the cheek of my daughter leaving a 4-5 mm cut. So what next? She has been a teriffic dog without these incidents, and we cannot understand the behaviour. She is never dominant in daily life, eats ok and will allow you next to her bowl when eating, can be posessive with a bone. We live in a neighbourhood with a lot of small kids and are worried that the dog may be unapproachable when tired or perhaps does not se children as equals? Any advice appreciated. Trevor |
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Quote: This evening before bed time our 10 year old daughter goes to May who is resting, laid on the floor, my daughter strokes her 4-5 times then goes to kiss her head, exactly the same reaction - a tooth has punctured the cheek of my daughter leaving a 4-5 mm cut. Quote: On Tuesday the dog was sleeping and when approached by a friend who was attempting to cuddle her (who she sees daily and took care of here for two weeks in July), woke snarling with head shaking and teeth bared; she cut the lip of our friend. Oh my goodness... have you ever heard the old adage, "Let sleeping dogs lie"? This is exactly the reason for the saying. I hope everyone is going to be ok. So you now know one of her limits... The first step is to immediately stop trying to interact with this dog when she's lying down or sleeping. She needs to have some down time where she isn't going to be forced to interact or be surprised by an invasion. Next time she's sleeping/resting or just lying down and someone NEEDS to interact with her, ask her to come to you for attention. Don't invade her space. Quote: She is never dominant in daily life, eats ok and will allow you next to her bowl when eating, can be posessive with a bone. Again, everyone needs to respect her. We never want to pester a dog when they're eating. The goal is always to be able to put something good in a bowl while the dog is eating or take it away if absolutely necessary but we don't ever want to take it to the point of causing the dog to develop issues. A dog deserves to be able to eat in peace too. Quote: We live in a neighbourhood with a lot of small kids and are worried that the dog may be unapproachable when tired or perhaps does not se children as equals?
Don't allow the dog to have free run when children are over or when your own children are interacting with her... interaction needs to be supervised. I would enroll in obedience training now... it helps to strengthen the bond and a trainer can help you learn more about interacting correctly with this girl's limits. |
| I would suspect she has hearing issues and was probably scared. |
Willowsprite wrote: I would suspect she has hearing issues and was probably scared.
That was my first impression, too. I wonder if she has some limitation in her hearing and the sudden intrusion of her sleep is startling her and making her protective. Josh had an incident happen with his first OES when he was 7 years old. At that point, Muffy was 12 years old. Her eyesight was poor and I suspect her hearing was getting bad. Muffy slept next to Josh's bed and one night he got up to get a drink of water and tripped over her. She had responded with confusion and had accidently bitten him on the right side of his cheek. Immediately after the incident, she cried and tried to clean him up, she hadn't known that it had been him. How does she act after the bite happened? Has she growled? Been remorseful? |
| Yes, eliminate the possibility of a hearing problem first. Place her in another room and call her to you. Verify she responds to voice/sounds. The first bite sounded like a definite startle reflex... but I question the second if she was simply resting and had received several pats just prior to the bite.
I have a dog I won't pet when she's lying down. She's a Schipperke-mix. If I want to cuddle her, I call her to me for a hug and some petting. This particular dog always welcomes the interaction from me if it's done this way. It's all about finding work arounds. Quote: can be posessive with a bone.
Also, if she's possessive over a bone, don't give her any bones. Eliminate the cause of a problem whenever possible. |
Willowsprite wrote: I would suspect she has hearing issues and was probably scared.
That was my first thought too, though if I read it correctly she wasn't awakened for the second bite -- it wasn't till the person leaned in to kiss her that she bit. Often it takes several months for a rehomed dog to relax enough to show her true colors. Which rescue group did you get her from? Please consult with them if an OES group as I'm sure they'll have some thoughts on the matter. Best, Kristine |
6Girls wrote: Yes, eliminate the possibility of a hearing problem first. Place her in another room and call her to you. Verify she responds to voice/sounds.
Actually, that won't work if she's unilaterally deaf. You'd need to do a BAER test. She could hear just fine when she's up and about, but if sleeping on her good ear, not so much. A friend of mine had a unilaterally deaf dog and she's the one who told me about this. Never crossed my mind before then, but it makes sense when you think about it. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: 6Girls wrote: Yes, eliminate the possibility of a hearing problem first. Place her in another room and call her to you. Verify she responds to voice/sounds. Actually, that won't work if she's unilaterally deaf. You'd need to do a BAER test. She could hear just fine when she's up and about, but if sleeping on her good ear, not so much. A friend of mine had a unilaterally deaf dog and she's the one who told me about this. Never crossed my mind before then, but it makes sense when you think about it. Kristine Not to be totally changing the subject - that is the case with Todd (husband) as well. If he's laying on his good ear, or even just turned away or with it near something noisy, he can not hear. Definitely worth checking out. Also, the kids/visitors need to learn not to bother her when sleeping. Teach them how to awaken her properly, then play. My youngest sister got bit and needed sutures after hugging our family dog while she was sleeping. Nothing wrong with dog, just a poor choice of behavior by the child. |
Ooooo... hadn't thought of just one ear with a problem. 
My husband has hearing loss in both ears and specific tone deafness. |
| Along with a hearing test it would probably pay you also to get the eyes checked as well to make sure she is seeing OK with full vision. Things like no cataracts present and no signs of PRA happening. Rule out sight problems as well as hearing.
Rule out other medical problems too by a full heath check to make sure things like no ear infection etc. It seems for some reason she is being protective of her head area so you need to have a few things checked out to rule out problems there.. |
| Thanks for all the comments.
Over the past couple of months she has been to the vet several times for jabs and health check - all good. She recently had an ear infection, but this has cleared. its the second incident that concerns me; she had 2-3 minutes before been interacting with the family as we played a board game 3-4 ft away, she was definitely not asleep, and had simply laid down. I agree that we should not disturb her when sleeping, but when she has laid down? In the light of day we can see the incisor marks all down one side of our daughters face, and neck, we were lucky they only punctured the skin in one place. We have made a decision to give her up and are talking to her rescue group today. Everyones very upset, this is a dog that was a friend and looked to be a real part of the family. |
I'm so sorry, though I absolutely understand. Your family's safety comes first.
Kristine |
| ou have made a difficult decision, but in case soeone else comes here to get some information - going to the vets for normal appointments is very different than going for a behavioral asessment. In the case of concerns about a dogs health affecting their behavior your vet will need some background and in some case even guidance from you - such as a young dog being tested for thyroid. or asking for behavioral medications. |
| Well things have moved on a bit - We have muzzled her, she is living a specific place and I have a trainer coming this Thursday to view her in the family environment and give advice. We will try for a couple of weeks and see how we get on.
I will post in update in about a week. Will also get a behavoural assessment from the vet, but I may need to find a new one as ours is a bit biased against OES. My daughter is fine, 3 stitches and more upset about the possibility of the dog leaving. |
Quote: I agree that we should not disturb her when sleeping, but when she has laid down Yeah, even when the dog is just lying down if she's anything like my Schip-mix. This girl is still a new dog in the home and it can take a long time to build trust and to mold a dog into the companion we hope to have. The act of hugging/cuddling a dog is both restrictive to a dog and an invasion of their personal space. With rescue dogs, we often don't know their full history... what may have lead to her reacting this way. Some have limits that we have to either compromise over or find a work around... making these experiences positive or rewarding to them can help a dog to slowly change. Quote: We have made a decision to give her up and are talking to her rescue group today.
I'm glad you've got rescue assisting you. I'm sorry this has been so distressing to you and your family... especially your daughter. It's scary when a dog lashes out. As a little kid, I saw a Purina dog food commercial on TV... a kid was hugging their beloved dog. I was so touched by the commercial that I tried to reenact it with our snotty old beagle mix. He told not to ever try that again.  And this was a dog I grew up with. He was definitely a dog with limits.
Best wishes to you all. |
| I too am glad you've decided to work with your local rescue group.
I'm so sorry for your anguish. |
Quote: We have muzzled her
Is she food motivated? If yes, you might ask your trainer about ways to make the act of putting the muzzle on her a positive experience. If she were mine, I'd select a small treat that is super tasty... one she will only get when the muzzle is involved. Maybe a thumbnail or half a thumbnail size. Reward her with this special treat each time you to put the muzzle on her and take it off... and praise her lavishly. The idea is to help her perceive the muzzle as a good thing... that good things happen when it's being put on and while she has it on. It's always best to get a dog to willingly comply with things that need to be done so we don't inadvertently cause them to develop yet another issue. |
| Well firstly let me say thanks to everyone who replied to my original post - when you have an OES issue and no one to turn to this forum is extremely valuable.
So.... May is still with us. We had a non practicing vet who specialises in dog behaviour visit last Thursday, and here's what she recommended; - In both instances of agression the dog had been provoked, and they were not surprise aggressive acts for no reason. The dog had been sleeping/resting and has had an ear infection. - Don't go near her when she is sleeping.....and NEVER go into the zone around her head without telling her your going into that space, and being welcomed by her. Do not allow the kids to cuddle or kiss the dogs face. - Don't let her sleep anywhere she wants on the ground floor; we were taught how to create a space, how to atract her to it, and how to make her stay there, she is now sleeping in this one location when in the house; a place where she cannot be disturbed. - Don't let her have your attention whenever she wants it; call her to you when you want her, engage with her, but ignore her from time to time to help her understand her place in the pack. - Read her body language (we were shown a lot of pictures of dogs and asked to read their behavour), try and understand when the dog is happy to be touched, when she is giving you signs to leave her alone etc. We are going to take more lessons over the coming weeks. May is now sitting and waiting more or less on command (all body language signals with rewards, not verbal yet), its been quite a transformation. If people are interested I can post more of the tips we receive as time progresses. Trevor |
| Yay! That sounds wonderful. I'm happy that things seem to be turning around.
Of course I'd love to read more tips! Thanks. |
YES!! 
Excellent news and excellent advice. Please keep the advice from this trainer coming... we can all learn from it. It sounds like this person knows a lot about dog behavior. |
| I've just read through your thread, and am thrilled that you've received such great advice from on the forum and from this wonderful trainer. It sounds like you found a gem in her!
I too would love to hear more as things progress. I'm so glad that you're investing the time (and money) to try to keep May a part of your family! It'll be hard work, but worth it! Kudos!  |
| That's so great that you are working with her! I would love to hear how the situation progresses, and what works for you guys. It's so interesting to hear how people can work with aggressive behavior, I'm sure your first hand experience will be very helpful to other people! |
| Wow! Sounds like you've got a good trainer who really understands dog behaviour. Bravo to you and your whole family for chosing to work through the situation with May and learn from it. Please do continue to post the tips you learn as well as your progress with May. I'm so pleased to hear when a family takes the training route as you are doing. Wonderful! |
| Wonderfull and keep the progress reports happening. |
| Sounds like great advice - I'm glad someone is able to work with you on this. It is always hard to be in a situation such as yours and I'm hopeful with the new regulations she will be an awesome girl for your family. |
Fantastic news!! 
Thanks for updating us. I would love to hear more of the tips you are getting from your trainer. |
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