Pearl got hurt yesterday......
The vet did some manual manipulation of her legs and paws, looked in her eyes, checked her vitals and came to the conclusion that she must have fallen and hurt her spine. When she walked, she looked like she had to poop and the vet said that is a classic sign of spine injury of some kind. She also noted that Pearl did have advanced arthritis in her legs and the nerves are not firing correctly to her brain. She gave her a steriod shot and 3 steriod pills for the next 5 days and pain meds. Pearl laid on her tuffet all evening panting and shaking. It didn't seem like the pain meds were working. Of course I am trying to figure out how she got hurt... ~~~ Although she never gets on the couch when we are home, I KNOW she is a couch potatoe when no one is here. so she may have fallen off the couch. ~~ The other two may have been rough housing and Pearl, being Pearl always has to bark them into line, so she may have got up quickly..something a 13 year old should never do, and twisted wrong. ~~~She slipped on these D@@@@ hardwood floors and fell. Whatever happened, it was quick and very painful. All evening Coz tried to lay close to her and Heart did alot of stuffie sucking ...they were visibly upset. This morning, she is still panting, but not shaking. She seems to be moving better, but still very slow and haltingly. I am very worried as I have to go to work. She will go in our bedroom, with plenty of water, to keep her away from the couches and the other nutjobs here. I plan to come home a couple times during the day to let her out and make sure she is comfortable. sorry this is so long......I am just beside myself with worry... Will she get better???? IS this the beginning of the end???? Will she be able to LIVE the way she always did?? Will she be able to still be in the PAWS program? Will she be able to be painfree>>>> I was expecting this with Millie((Pearls adopted mommie)...her hips and back were always weak..I also know that, at this age, they can go down quick! I just wasn't expecting this with Pearl!!! She never had any type of joint, hip, leg problems..This came out of the blue and I was not prepared!!!! Please send some healing thoughts Pearl's way...please!!!! |
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So sorry to hear about Pearl's injury... hopefully the meds will help her and she'll be back to her old self in no time  |
| Poor Pearl. Right now she needs rest and sleep. Just as when people "throw out their backs" time may help. Panting as you know is a sign of pain, I'm surprised the vet didn't give you something for that. Get Pearl to relax a bit and hopefully the muscles relax and pain disappears.
Getting her back up again is first, then you can think about Paws, etc. Poor old girl. |
Val, I'm so sorry 
Paws and fingers crossed for her.
Kristine |
| Oh Val I am so sorry - keeping her by herself is a good idea - you never know what can happen when they ae together do you?
WHen you give her the steroids what are you giving themt o her with? I knwo when I take them I need a little milk or something or I can get eh shakes as well. I hope she feels better soon.  |
| Take it easy Pearl and get better. Only good thoughts are coming your way.
Oh, and for your mommy too  |
| Oh NO! Poor baby! I don't care if they are 20, it is always shocking to see your best friends suddenly not do so well. I am so sorry. I will say a prayer for Pearl and her family.
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| Thank you everyone!!! Gina..Lola is Pearl's hero..Your video is an inspiration!
Just wanted to add...This forum is a godsend... I know I am not alone, I can come here and talk about my worry, concern about Pearl and know you all will respond with true compassion . It helps so much to know that you are here, you really understand, and you really care. |
| So sorry to hear Pearl is not feeling well. It is never easy to see our kids in pain! Hope all will get better soon. Well wishes from Colorado!!
Please keep us posted. |
Please let us know how she is doing after you go home and check on her. Give her a pet from me. She always waits so patiently for her turn to get petted or get the treat even when someone with less manners shoves their way to the front. |
| Don't beat yourself up about her getting injured. When they're weak in the back legs, a simple jump could have caused her to collapse and hyperextend her spine or even just twist when she landed.
The steroid shot should help relatively quickly, at least to the point where she shouldn't be overly uncomfortable. Did they give her a pain med, like Tramadol, or anything, too? |
| Val & Pearl - Stephen, Winston, little Paislee & I send the most heartfelt thoughts that Pearl will feel better soon. Please give her a gentle hug from us. |
| Jill.....
She is on pain meds...they didn't seem to be working last night, but maybe her pain was so bad..since she was still panting and shaking, I have to believe if they were helping, it wasn't enough. sheepiemommy wrote: [quote.....]get the treat even when someone with less manners shoves their way to the front.[/quote]_________________ whoever do you mean?????  
((I keep looking at the clock....hoping that 11:30 comes around quicker...I DON't want to be here at work!!!  I want to be with Pearl!!!)))) |
| Sending you and Pearl lots of well wishes and hope that she gets better soon.... |
sheepieshake wrote: sheepiemommy wrote: get the treat even when someone with less manners shoves their way to the front. whoever do you mean????? Actually, I was referring to both buffoons that she has had to endure - Harry is just as rude as Heart about shoving Pearl out of the way. |
| I am so sorry to hear about Pearl's injuries. I hope she gets well quickly. |
| kisses to pearl...hope she feels better |
sheepieshake wrote: Thank you everyone!!! Gina..Lola is Pearl's hero..Your video is an inspiration!
I asked myself what I was supposed to get out of this and I think maybe I needed reminding that sometimes when things look at their worst, you are moments from being ok. You just don't know when that moment is.... I feel the same way about everyone here. I know I can come here and people will understand my rabid concern for my baby. |
| Hoping that Pearl is much better this evening when you get home from work. The pain meds have kicked in and she's going to be mending quickly. |
| I hope Pearl is feeling better.
You have just described exactly what happened with my dalmo a few years ago. 
He lay on the couch with me for 3 hours while I sat a take home exam, all perfectly normal. I finished and got up, went to the bedroom to get some shoes to take him for a walk and when I came back I couldnt see him. He was collapsed on the floor behind the coffee table shaking all over I freaked out. I was only gone 2 minutes and he was in the house by himself, what could have happened.
It was a Sat so my vet was still at work and we rushed over there. At first he thought urinary crystals referring pain to his back (dalmos are prone to these) but after a catheter and urine scope, that was ruled out. He had somehow hurt his back getting of the couch, maybe awkwardly or something. Also at least 8 months early he had jumped (scrambled) over a high fence when he got frightened by some really loud thunder, so maybe the injury was already there and somehow just was triggered on the day. He received the same treatment as Pearl, prednisone and pain meds. I did a lot of gentle massage on the tight muscles in his back. And we leash walked only for a few months, as he would always go silly off lead and run around and then come home sore. A friend who is a vet does acupuncture for pets and we were going to try that but he ate a needle on the first try that took 8 days to reappear with all the cotton wool and we were too nervous to try again. 
It took about 6 months but he's fine now except for a little stiffness in his low back. Many people wouldnt notice it but I'm a chiro and paranoid about my dogs so I'm aware its there. Not enough to stop him jumping up on me and the furniture or into the back of the car though. 
Praying for a good recovery for Pearl too. |
| Oh no! Sorry about that. Hopefully it will all go well. Guess only time will tell. It sure stinks when they hurt themselves. |
| Poor Pearl and poor you, how frightening. Hope she gets beter soon xx |
| Val so sorry to hear about Pearl, such a worry with an oldie.
Dont panic yet, personally I would take her to a vet that is experienced in both conventional treatment as well as ortho problems, that is a vet that also does things like Chiro on them as well. She needs to be x-rayed to see no slipped discs etc, if the spine is out of alingnment, no pressure or inflmmation disrupting the spinal cord etc. Also going to a vet that is really experienced in injuries to do with motion is better then just your ordinary everyday vet. Pain Killers and rest can just sometimes just mask an injury. So she really needs x-raying to see what is going on with her spine and take it from there. Best thing for her now at the moment is total rest, no jumping up, outside to potty in a controlled situation that is on a lead, no free running at all till you know exactly what is happening with her. If in doubt when you are at work then crate her for total rest while you are not there. Thinking of you both |
| Oh, poor Pearl! And poor Val worrying about her!
I still can't read things like this without thinking about my Drez and her back hips. It's so hard to see our babies in pain. I hope the meds kick in soon and she starts feeling better. What she's accomplished at her age is an inspiration to us all. Gentle hugs to her from me and Sammie, please. |
| Poor Pearl....
Hope she is feeling herself now!! |
| Maybe crating her a few hours a day will force her to rest. we had to do this recently when uy baby pulled a legiment in her groin. I put her in her crate with some stuffed Kongs a few hours a day and she was forced tore st.
Hope Pearl is feeling better real soon! |
| I'm so sorry to here Pearl's not feeling all that great... sending big hugs and positive vibes |
| Poor Pearl and poor Val . Hope you feel better soon, both of you |
| THANK YOU for all your well wishes and good thoughts.
She IS better. She is still walking kind of hunched back, but she IS walking and going to the bathroom and coming inside on her own. She is not panting or shaking, so I think the pain meds are finally helping as is the 3 steriod pills I have to give her 2 times a day for the next 4 days. As I pm'd sneakysheepie, Quote: Of course my fear is that, since she has had an episode with an injury to her spine, it is only a matter of time till she reinjures it....BUT, having said this,,,,I am taking EVERY day with her as a precious gift..and thanking God for each day I have with her.
I know she is 13, and I have been very lucky to have had this wonderful creature in my life, giving me joy, laughter and pride in all of OUR work (and play) together. Last night, I made a promise to her, while I laid on the floor gently petting her . I will make sure the quality of her life will not deminish. And I will have the courage to let her go when it is time. Until then, she is my sweetie, my heart...and definately...my PEARL-GIRL. Thank you again. |
| Special thoughts for you and Pearl. Glad to hear she doesn't seem in as much pain tonight. It is so hard when they don't feel well. Keeping our fingers and paws crossed that she continues to improve. |
| Just online now - I'm so sorry Pearlie Girl is hurt.
Daughter Lisa's old boy Spike Lee just had a major trauma a month ago - spine injury - in the cervical level. It took several days for the steroids to kick in. He was better for about a week. Then he had a period of severe pain again - as the spinal swelling was going down. After pain meds for a few more days he got better. Now he is almost the same as before. Going for 2 mile walks at a brisk pace, out in front of the pack (he always has to be the leader - all 6 pounds of him!) He's 12 yrs old. 
Did they do xrays? or just a physical assessment? Fingers crossed for her. How horrid for you to be gone at work all day too. Nice you got to stop home though to check on her. |
| Dawn.....Thanks for the support
No exrays... Since she is getting better, I don't know if I should go ahead and get exrays. Let me explain... I never thought Pearl would ever have any type of back problems, joint problems etc. She has always been very elastic...One of her special tricks has been a front stretch..THEN a BACK stretch, where her back legs would bend to the floor. In my mind, this meant that her hips and spine were still good and strong... So when we took her to the vet on Monday, and the vet said.."she has advanced arthritis in both her back legs and most probably in her spine"..I was shocked!!! I think at that moment, I finally realized just how old Pearl was!!!! I know it sounds dumb, but she have never acted OLD...until now!!! If I get exrays, what is that going to tell me???? That she is even worse than I am suspecting??? That I will have to really curb her activities and basically MAKE her lay down, rest, not run,....???? I really need help with this. Hopefully, everyone can understand what I am going through and what my thought process is here. Maybe I shouldn't know how bad she is. GOSHHHHHH!!! this is so hard!!!! Does this make sense to anyone...or , am I just rambling from worry and lack of sleep???????? |
| I understand. You don't want what the vet has to say to define the rest of Pearls life. I say that you leave it alone and just make sure she is not in pain. Let Pearl dictate when she plays, when she lays down. She's 13, she's earned the right I think.
I know how hard it is to make decisions in the thick of it. Emotions run very high. |
| It would be worth talking it over with your vet.
The Xrays of my Dalmo showed up nothing as it was a soft tissue injury. But I would ask your vet if taking Xrays is likely to 1. show him something he/she doesnt know about already or 2. change the treatment that you have commenced. If the answer to both these questions is No then you still have the option to Xray at a later date, if Pearl is not improving or has a relapse. Everyone is different some of us want to know absolutely every detail of what's going on and others prefer more of a need to know approach. Good luck with Pearl's treatment and recovery. Its such a scary thing to have happen. |
| Gosh...Gina..you understand exactly what I am thinking~~~
I liked ""she earned the right" phrase~~I really feel after a certain age, Pearl passed a couple of years ago, our responsibility is to make sure we give back to them the comfort, relaxed, 'smell the flowers' and just chill life that they gave us as puppies. No need for any additional pain, stress, fear than is needed. HOWEVER!!! Mim...you pose some interesting views that I have not thought of and I guess REALLy need to think about...I can't be so one sided as to ultimately effect her quality of life from here on ... The vet stated that she should be 100% by this evening..She is NOT 100% this morning..hoping to see more of an improvement during the day. |
Is there a reason why you are so torn over getting the ex rays? If you are worried about the dog, mine just had her hips and knees ex rayed. They had to put her out ( with valium sedation) and she was fine afterwards. A little sleepy maybe but otherwise just fine. If that's what you were worried about, don't worry  |
| Val, methinks your vet may be a wee bit of an optimist in terms of the return to 100% rate. As long as she's steadily improving, that has got to be a good thing, right?
As for the arthritis, honey, she is the human equivalent of, what? 91 years old? I don't think arthritis at that age is significant unless it significantly impairs them. Most, nay, probably ALL OES over the age of say 7 (and really active & wild dogs probably even younger) have arthritis of the spine. Arthritis of the other major joints including hips? No surprise at her age. I should be so fit when I'm 91! My friend had her 6 year old x-rayed for some unrelated reason and flipped out and retired her from all performance related things when the vet noted some arthritis on her lower spine. Completely assymptomatic. And completely the wrong thing to do. Just like humans. You sit down, you rust. So, when Pearl recovers, the more you can keep her moving within her comfort level, the better muscled she'll remain, thus being able to carry on despite the fact that she at age 91 (sort of ) INEXPLICABLY has arthritis. Her therapy work, too will help keep her young at heart and mentally with it. Just like people. Don't want her brain to atrophy and shrink to the size of your average boy dog's brain, do you? (Oops! Did I say that out loud??? )
I brought Belle back to herding this summer. She's pushing 12. I questioned my sanity for doing so, she questioned my sanity for making her stop to begin with. It's given her a new lease on life and she's fitter than when I wrapped her in cotton and tried to retire her. And she has spondylosis and some athritis on this knee and some arthritis on this hip and who all knows what else. But she's damn happy and that's what matters. Pearl will tell you what she wants and is able to do. Not her vet, not any x-rays, not your fear. Just listen to Pearl. Kristine |
| Val I had Marley xrayed for an injury this summer and found out that the ripe old age of three she has arthritis in her elbows. She does the double stretch too by the way. I haven't curtailed her activities at all. But knowing she had the issue reminds me to add her supplements to her food even if I am rushed at night. It also ensures I do the therapy exercises the therapist suggested and that I get her to the chiro whenever I can. I have arthritis in my spine myself and I know how important all those things are to me.
I would do an xray to see if anything else was going on, but thats me - and i wouldn't let it define who my dog was, or what she did- it would just let me know what kind of exercises I needed to add to her routine etc. Hope she is feeling better soon. |
Mad Dog wrote: Pearl will tell you what she wants and is able to do. Not her vet, not any x-rays, not your fear. Just listen to Pearl.
I agree with what Krisitne says ---Listen to Pearl. |
sneakysheepie wrote: Mad Dog wrote: Pearl will tell you what she wants and is able to do. Not her vet, not any x-rays, not your fear. Just listen to Pearl. I agree with what Krisitne says ---Listen to Pearl. Ditto on this one. Been there, done that. Oliver tells me what he can/can't do (and what he wants/doesn't want to do ). |
| I just made another appointment for Pearl this evening and I will discuss with the vet about taking exrays to see what is really going on. I guess I need to realy be aware of how bad this injury is and how bad her arthritis is.
Thanks Kerry, Kristine, and jc...as well as everyone else who responded to my delimma...it is really helping me see things from ALL sides... |
| I hope all goes well today for Pearl.
A bit of clarification on the xrays. They won't pick up soft tissue damage, but will be more of a way to make sure nothing did happen to her bone-wise. It also picks up things like arthritis, joint degenaration and stuff like that, but more as in incidental finding. Things she had all along if they are there. As Kerry said - it can serve as a reminder that they need those supplements, other treatments, to stay in the best health possible and to enjoy life to the fullest. For Spike, it ruled out that he had any cervical damage from bone dislocation or fractures (there was none, thank goodness!) That narrowed it down to soft tissue damage and most likely swelling from the trauma (poor little Spike was hit by a car - head injury and unilateral (left sided) weakness and loss of sensation to those limbs). Most times the xrays show nothing, which is helpful in knowing what didn't happen and helps define the best treatment to follow. I would hate to have her with some small fracture, or something like that being missed, as that would alter the treatment plan. Pearl seems pretty calm - so unless she gets really anxious at the vet, I would think an xray would be pretty simple for her and well tolerated - without drugging her. Good luck Val!! |
Quote: Pearl seems pretty calm - so unless she gets really anxious at the vet, I would think an xray would be pretty simple for her and well tolerated - without drugging her.
Thanks Dawn for the clarification of just what an xray will show~~~always am confused about that!!!!...I feel the same way about how she would tolerate xrays at this point. I am going to request that I be in there, she will listen to me since we are so bonded thru our therapy visits..so I am hoping they will not have to put her under, but if that is the only way to get some good pics..then whatever they have to do. Will let you guys know what happens after the vet app. this evening. Thanks |
| Val - I always go in with my dogs. In fact most do at our clinic. That is just one of the things I love about our vet.
I didn't go in with the xrays of Spike, but I did and assisted with Chewie's hip and elbow xrays. But, Spike was drugged. He needed to, as I'm not his owner (lisa's boy) and he hardly knew me at the time as they just had moved back from NY. Plus he's a min pin and they are not calm in times of pain! I did go in for his suturing when they closed up all his booboos though. He is all healed up now, thank goodness. Hang in the with Pearl. I know the week-plus after Spike's injury was forever long. |
| Val....thinking of you and your Pearl girl! |
| I hope your vet appt goes well... |
| Poor Pearl..... HEAL! |
| As Kristine said I'd be surprised if she was 100% yet.
Good luck re the Xrays. |
| Saw the vet...got the xrays.... Vet stated that her reflexes were much better than Monday.
GOOD NEWS!!!!.....Pearl's hips are great!!!! She has over 50% coverage of her hip ball joint in the socket. The vet was impressed. She was very afraid that her hips were part of the problem which would have made the rest of this much worse. BAD NEWS!! Spondylosis and advanced arthritis worse in her spine above her hips and her spine above her front legs. The disks by her back legs are almost fused together, which is not good, but again, considering her age, is expected. Treatment as follows:: Finish the next 3 days of steroids and pain meds. When that is done, go to Glocosemine Condriotant (msp) If that doesn't do it...Duremax or Rymidyl (msp) Retire her from the therapy visits immediatly...too much strain on her, getting into chairs and down from chairs, rising to a bed and down again..etc. I am a little sad about this, but I knew this day would come. This pretty girl has given 11 years of her life, one day every other week, making a difference in many people's lives...so I can't be too upset about this. Vet doesn't see any problems with her continuing with the PAWS program but I must get a ramp for the car ((( which sheepiemommy has offer to let me use )) and keep her walking up and down steps to a minimum. I am glad I got her xrayed. I know what I am dealing with now and it doesn't seem as grim as I thought. THANKS....TO ALL.......THANKS......  
Again and again I am thankful for all your suggestions, 2 sided opinions ((since most of the time I only see one side... )) your compassion and your support!!!!! |
| Val...we used Glyco Flex III
on a few of our dogs and it really made a difference. Our orthopedic vet strongly reccomends it! It is a bit stronger than the normal gloucasamine.... (thinking I spelled that wrong)
Hope Pearl feels better and better!!! |
| So glad to hear that Pearl's hips are good. And as your vet and Kristine both said the arthritis is to be expected.
Now you know what the best plan of action is. Hope Pearl is feeling better every day. |
| I am so glad you are comfortable with what you heard. Sometimes what we imagine is far worse than what is actually the case. I am so glad she can do the PAWS program. I hope she feels like her old self soon. |
| that is all really good news isn't it?
If you end up at the rimydl stage ask your vet about vetprofen. my vet gives it to me for Morgan (when his Lyme acts up) and said it is less expensive that Rimydl and just as good. I know I used it when Marley was injured and she seemed to get real relief from it. Good to hear the old girl is doing so well. |
| Wonderful news about her hip results.. It is always a relief when you know what you are actually dealing with, so that you can formulate a plan.
Yeahhhhhhhhh Pearl. |
| Glad to hear Pearl is on the mend! We use the Glutosotimine ( spellling?) chews. The come in a plastic bag in a container and are soft chews you can sprinkle on the food. It does say somewhere on the container to give with a meal to avoid stomach upset. I use 2 chews, sprinkled and mixed in with the food, twice a day. We are healing ourselves from a torn groin muscle. After four weeks, we will cut back to one chew with each meal. Dog seems to like the taste. Since you can sprinkle them on the food, its easier than giving a pill.
I got the chews from the Vet by the way. Hope all continues to improve. |
| Good news.... a less grim diagnosis and a way to manage it are always a good thing.
Hope she's feeling better soon! |
| A Pearl Update....
She is still not being, Pearl. She is sleeping alot and walking very slowly. I am still concerned about her. She is eating very well and drinking, so that is good!!!! Last night, I decided to brush her, since I have left her alone for the past 3 weeks. I thought it might make her feel better, having 'mom' down on the floor, gently messaging her. After over an hour of me brushing and Pearl basically, laying there not moving, I had over 2 trash bags filled with hair. Certainly NOT normal!!!! Then when Dino came home, he made a comment about her hair, how funny it looked and felt... Now, I have thought the same thing for the past couple of weeks but didn't say anything, thinking I was just being my ol' paranoid self. I am making an appointment at the vet AGAIN today..(making 1 a week for the last 3 weeks) for a FULL geriatric panel including Thyroid!! I really think her tyroid is the problem and I know a messed up thyroid can cause all kinds of probelms!!! From hair loss, to tiredness to joint pain... |
| Poor Pearl.
It might be side effects from the drugs but you definitely want to see your vet and get everything checked out. Sending sheepie hugs and kisses to Pearl (and you). Hope you get to the bottom of it all and can sort things for gorgeous Pearl. |
| Could she have Lymes? |
Ashley wrote: Could she have Lymes?
Given the number of ticks I pull off my dogs every time we visit St Louis.... ...quite possibly.
Like Mim said, the drugs she's on could also be taking their toll. Thyroid is always a worry in the breed. Full bloodwork sounds like an excellent approach. KB |
| Poor Pearl.
Thyroid is a good thing to check. Overproduction of estrogen would cause hair thinning too... I think. Maybe. |
| ^^^^
Would I need to specifically request the Lyme blood test??? I never thought of that!!!!!! Thanks |
Ron wrote: Poor Pearl.
Thyroid is a good thing to check. Overproduction of estrogen would cause hair thinning too... I think. Maybe. Speaking from personal experience?  (sorry, couldn't resist )
Rescue dog if I'm not mistaken. Almost certainly long since spayed (Val?), so I'm pretty sure no female hormones remaining to speak of to cause her to blow coat if that's what you were thinking maybe? Removal of said hormones can cause coat to go to hades, but I'm pretty sure she would have gone through "the change" (no, dog's don't naturally have one, can't blame their grumpiness and hot flashes on that  ) a long time ago.
KB |
sheepieshake wrote: ^^^^
Would I need to specifically request the Lyme blood test??? I never thought of that!!!!!! Thanks Yes. It's not part of standard bloodwork.Easy to do at the same time though. Just mention it as a possibility and see what your vet says. Lyme is endemic in WI, but just because you have ticks in your area doesn't mean it's the same problem there, so ? Also wouldn't expect thyroid to suddenly go haywire, but it never hurts to test for it in these guys. Kristine |
| Really Kristine??? I guess I am basing my thyroid theory on my Beardie...her's did seem to go quickly..
I am ready to call and have my vet think I am totally looney!!!! But darn!!! I know my dog!!! and I know there is something wrong!!!
And yes Pearl was spayed when she was about 6 months old |
| Val - here most of the vets do a inhouse Lyme test at the same time they test for heartworm so it isn't that difficult to rule out. If you do the inhouse test and it is lyme you can ask if that would cause the symptoms. |
| Thanks Kerry.....beyond worried since there is no reason for drastic change in her!!!! Need answers!!!!
Appointment set for 3 this afternoon |
| Hope an easy to treat answer is found. |
sheepieshake wrote: Really Kristine??? I guess I am basing my thyroid theory on my Beardie...her's did seem to go quickly..
I am ready to call and have my vet think I am totally looney!!!! But darn!!! I know my dog!!! and I know there is something wrong!!!Stress/disease/some medications may throw the thyroid results off so if her numbers come back just a bit off, you'd probably need to retest. Your vet will know what it all means. Hypothyroidism is a gradual process. Thyroid doesn't just shut down one day to the next. That said, the symptoms can easily creep up on you and seem sudden. I agree you know your dog and that's the important thing. With the meds she's been on I'd be most interested in kidney and esp liver values and then go from there. But BEFORE YOU PANIC the fact that she's eating and drinking normally is tremendously encouraging.
Kristine |
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to ALL of you!!!!!! |
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Gentle hugs to Pearl and big sheepie hugs to Val. Keeping our fingers and paws crossed that your appointment this afternoon gives you all the answers you need. On a side note Oakley too has been diagnosed with spondylosis and we've had great success with Cortaflex so far. |
thanks Barb.....Need to hear success stories.....makes me feel much better!!!!!  |
| What did your vet say??
How is Pearl? Thinking of you. |
| still...waiting...waiting for 3 to roll around...but I know there will be no word until the results come back..maybe 3/4 days./????? |
| I cant convert time zones to save myself
Let us know what the vet thinks though. |
| Just got back...vet thought is was a good idea to do a full geratric panel including thyroid and lyme..(also kidney, liver, pancreas,and sugar)..maybe results tomorrow for some..but thyroid and lyme will be next week sometime.
The vet sees that she is not bouncy, happy..just laying there. Checked her reflexes on her back legs and they are greatly improving. Heart, eyes. ears are normal. We'll seee what these test result offer in a way of an explanation, if everything is normal, vet suspects some kind of dementia and we will talk about a plan after results come in. thanks again...everyone....thanks |
| keep good thoughts val
Have you been doing yearly bloodwork ups so he has something to compare it too? |
| Good luck with the results. |
| Kerry...I don't think they were done last year, but the year before, so I am hoping they will be able to compare them...Last year Pearl was sooo GREAT!!! She started Rally...and she was being very active in the OES club parades and the Visits...This year..welll....
The day Pearl got hurt, I received her ACK certificate for Rally Advanced Title...ironic isn't it?????? |
| Hugs to Pearl for a full recovery. |
| Hope things come out okay for pearl. And congratulations on your certificate! Whatever is wrong, it appears pearl led a full and active and loved life. that is what matters.
BTW, my first OES had dementia. He was almost 15. Yes, sometimes he would forget where he was and forget what he was suppose to do outside ( we had a few indoor accidents) but all in all, he led a nice life for quite a few years. Licks and kisses to pearl, Diane and Gang |
| Our paws are crossed for your precious girl. Feel better sweet Pearl! |
Ashley wrote: Hope things come out okay for pearl. And congratulations on your certificate! Whatever is wrong, it appears pearl led a full and active and loved life. that is what matters.
BTW, my first OES had dementia. He was almost 15. Yes, sometimes he would forget where he was and forget what he was suppose to do outside ( we had a few indoor accidents) but all in all, he led a nice life for quite a few years. Licks and kisses to pearl, Diane and Gang Ashley...She has certainly had a very full life!!!!!
IF her original owners had not given her up, left her in their back yard, vegetating, being neglect, not brushing her,...I shudder to think what quality of life she would have had. I really believe the heavens have a plan for each one of us, and Pearl was meant to be with me, to devote her life to helping people through her therapy work, to make a difference. Again, I will enjoy her, make her happy and painfree and give her lots of love until she has to leave. |
| Where was I? Oh yeah, at the vet with Bella who woke up crying in pain yesterday morning. I know how you feel. Bella is only 5, and I was sure she must have a cancer with that behavior. I did have x-rays and blood work. $$$$$
All we can see in her is she is full of s*#t...really. So the vet gave me pain meds and something to help move things along. So weird because she had the runs a few weeks ago in the heat. I guess that can cause severe back pain. I am still waiting on the blood work. Hey, the x-rays told me she had no injured discs or spinal problems. I just hope my goat didn't eat anything to block her up...I have spent too much time at the vet in the last two years. All this being said, I am soo glad Pearl is a bit better today. These things do take a little time to heal. Think about how long it takes when you hurt your back...and they don't know they are supposed to take it easy. HUGS!!! |
| I hope Bella is Ok.
she didnt eat anything |
| She eats everything!!! She seems to be a lot better...bloodwork all normal. We just need to clear her out.
I am hoping Pearl feels better soon too. Paws crossed. |
| not all the test results are in...tell me what you think of some of the results...
I had to write quickly while he was talking so some of this may not make sense. ALT liver function...normal is below...100..Pearl's is 510 Alconis Phosetate liver function...normal is under 200...Pearl is at 650 CBC...TSH is normal as is sugar... He wants to wait until the rest of the test are in...but...what does this mean????? I need some idea of what is going on??? so when I call him back, I can talk to him more intelligently. anyone have any ideas??? or are these not enough to see what is happening.... |
| from what I see on the web, high liver functions can only tell part of the story becasue they can be casued by so many factors, illness, injury or disease. They cna be present ion cases of pancreatitis, diabetes mellitus, and hyperthyroidism. Moderately increased bilirubin can occur in a variety of non-hepatic diseases as well as in conditions such as prolonged anorexia, catabolic states, and infection. Mild increases in ALT may be observed in animals with cardiac pathology. Substantial increases in ALP with moderate increases in ALT will occur in most dogs with hyperadrenocorticism. (Mild Increases are defined as 4-6 times the normal level so I think that is what they would refer to in this case)
also I lifted this: It is important to be aware that serum enzymes are not liver function tests and there is no correlation between the magnitude of the enzyme increase and the severity or reversibility of the condition. Occasionally, cases of severe liver dysfunction, e.g., biliary cirrhosis, neoplasia or portacaval shunt, may be associated with minimal or no increases in serum enzymes. What did your vet think about the levels - because I would just about kill someone who gave me data with no interpretation!!! |
| Val - I copy/pasted some info. The 2 elevated ones are related to liver function.
The ALT and alkaline phosphatase are described below. Alanine transaminase (ALT), also called Serum Glutamic Pyruvate Transaminase (SGPT) or Alanine aminotransferase (ALAT) is an enzyme present in hepatocytes (liver cells). When a cell is damaged, it leaks this enzyme into the blood, where it is measured. ALT rises dramatically in acute liver damage, such as viral hepatitis or paracetamol (acetaminophen) overdose. Elevations are often measured in multiples of the upper limit of normal (ULN). Alkaline phosphatase (ALP) is an enzyme in the cells lining the biliary ducts of the liver. ALP levels in plasma will rise with large bile duct obstruction, intrahepatic cholestasis or infiltrative diseases of the liver. This means her liver is not functioning correctly. Either there is a disease process or a mechanical blockage present.
Do you have her old values to compare? To see if this is more sudden, or if the values have been creeping upward? What other tests are you waiting on? They will help with the big picture. Some values are altered by other things being out of whack, like a domino effect of sorts. The task is to determine what started it (the cause) and what are just trickle down effects from the root cause (if that makes sense?) Hugs to you and Pearl |
| Val - refresh my memory, please: was she given steroids for her back pain?
Kristine |
| With tears of gratitude and appreaciation, Thankyou Dawn and Kerry...
Kerry...After calling the clinic 5 x yesterday ((with all doctors too busy to tell me anything about the tests results...I was very frustrated and upset!!)) I finally got a hold of one of the doctors who gave me the results,,,I guess I was shocked at the numbers but he said sometimes he sees these numbers in the thousands....((didn't make me feel better!!!) So Kerry, he did not even try to guess what the problem is at this point... he told me to wait for the rest of the results.Maybe I should have pushed...but I was kind of in shock.....more liver....thyroid...lyme..they SHOULD be in today....I will be calling after lunch..I need some answers.. Dawn...I don't think we did the geritric panel on her last year cuz she was just great!!!! (((I guess I forgot she was 12 at the time...it would have been nice if she would have acted her age to remind me..... ) But prior years were normal....
But the year before, all levels were normal..... Are there any other tests any of you would suggest...???? I am so shocked that, with these tests not being in normal range...NO ONE from that office called me to let me know... Very upset, since this is a relatively new vet I have only had for a couple of years and really thought I had found a keeper..... Will keep everyone posted!!!! Thanks again... |
| Val?
Steroids? Was she on any? Thanks! Kristine |
sheepieshake wrote: With tears of gratitude and appreaciation, Thankyou Dawn and Kerry...
Kerry...After calling the clinic 5 x yesterday ((with all doctors too busy to tell me anything about the tests results...I was very frustrated and upset!!)) I finally got a hold of one of the doctors who gave me the results,,,I guess I was shocked at the numbers but he said sometimes he sees these numbers in the thousands....((didn't make me feel better!!!) So Kerry, he did not even try to guess what the problem is at this point... he told me to wait for the rest of the results.Maybe I should have pushed...but I was kind of in shock.....more liver....thyroid...lyme..they SHOULD be in today....I will be calling after lunch..I need some answers.. Dawn...I don't think we did the geritric panel on her last year cuz she was just great!!!! (((I guess I forgot she was 12 at the time...it would have been nice if she would have acted her age to remind me..... ) But prior years were normal....But the year before, all levels were normal..... Are there any other tests any of you would suggest...???? I am so shocked that, with these tests not being in normal range...NO ONE from that office called me to let me know... Very upset, since this is a relatively new vet I have only had for a couple of years and really thought I had found a keeper..... Will keep everyone posted!!!! Thanks again... From what I read I wouldn't be too quick to blame hte vet. In isolation these numbers don't tell you anything. in fact I read you cannot judge liver function in canines by them. they can be casued by many factors and the rest of the tests can help fill out the puzzle - which is I believe what your vet was trying to tell you. Again, deep breaths |
sheepieshake wrote: Are there any other tests any of you would suggest...????
Depending on the results of the other tests your vet may suggest testing for Cushings. Then again, depending on what medication she's taken and the time frames, some of those can cause a bit of an assault on the liver. If you suspected that may be the case, you'd retest after a certain time period and it's possible her liver values could normalize. The good thing about the liver is compared to most organs in the body it has a pretty incredible capacity to regenerate itself. There are some scary possibilties, but without the results from the other tests your vet would just be guessing and making you even more scared. Kerry - I once took Coco to have her enlarged spleen ultrasounded. Referral center. They took her, performed the ultrasound, I paid, they have me "sort of" a preliminary written report. Never saw the vet. Not a word about what they had seen. They would only speak to the referring vet (i.e. my regular vet) I was this close to going over the counter and strangling the receptionist on the spot, I kid you not. The last shred of sanity left in me knew it wasn't her fault so instead I bit my tongue, walked out to the car, read the report, recognized the term "no sign of neoplasia" and then I called my poor vet and she got a screaming earful even though it wasn't HER fault either. Rarely, rarely do I get anywhere near that angry. I've spent a life time working with animals which means a life time of working hard to keep my temper in check. So when it finally blows you damn well don't want to be anywhere in the vicinity. But, Val, that wasn't the case here. Most vets feel better the more information they have. Why scare you potentially for no good reason? Hopefully it'll be OK.
Kristine |
| Val - I can't provide any useful information like the others have - but I want you to know we are here for you and Pearl. |
| Kristine...due to the spine injury, she was on steroids, which, in my opinion, should have made the levels better not worse!!!!
I feel this, because when I had bad liver problems in my teens, I was on pregnisone....to help my liver.... The meds ended last weekend... |
| I would agree with Kristine on the Cushings Test.
When we first got Wilby his alk phos was over 1600. (he was four then, we had him for 8 more years) We wanted to do the Cushings Test but, you have to draw blood, eat and then wait four hours to draw more blood. (Wilby was not having that, he had to be sedated for everything!) We did test him everytime he had to be sedated to be groomed and it steadily went down. I wanted to let you know that we had him on Science Diet L/D and I think it helped alot. Also, Cholodin as a supplement but, I think there are better holistic options(just my opinion) Maybe you could pm Jaci(6girls) and talk to her. A couple of her girls have been having liver issues. |
| ^^^^^^^
tHANKS..... |
| Cushing Disease symptons....
increased/excessive water consumption (polydipsia) YES!!!! • increased/excessive urination (polyuria) YES!!!!! • urinary accidents in previously housetrained dogs YES!!! • increased/excessive appetite (polyphagia) YES~!!! • appearance of food stealing/guarding, begging, trash dumping, etc. • sagging, bloated, pot-bellied appearance • weight gain or its appearance, due to fat redistribution • loss of muscle mass, giving the appearance of weight loss YES!!!! • bony, skull-like appearance of head YES!!! • exercise intolerance, lethargy, general or hind-leg weakness YES!!! • new reluctance to jump on furniture or people YES!!! • excess panting, seeking cool surfaces to rest on YES!!!! • symmetrically thinning hair or baldness (alopecia) on torso YES!!! • other coat changes like dullness, dryness YES!!! • slow regrowth of hair after clipping • thin, wrinkled, fragile, and/or darkly pigmented skin YES!!! • easily damaged/bruised skin that heals slowly YES!!! • hard, calcified lumps in the skin (calcinosis cutis) YES!!! • susceptibility to infections (especially skin and urinary) • diabetes, pancreatitis, seizures I will be taking this to the vet and asking him when I talk to him....There is a lot of symptoms here that I see in Pearl.... |
| My sister's airedale has cushings. They did an x-ray to determine the liver position...that's about all I know, sorry.
Poor thing. Hope she feels better soon! |
| I hope you and your vet can figure things out and find a way to make her comfortable and feeling better... I know how stressful it is to know there is something wrong and be frustrated by a lack of a diagnosis, sometimes a little info is too much and it's best to leave it in your vets hands. With a new vet that you may not completely trust yet that can be hard but you've done what you can and it sounds like your vet is taking the right steps.
|
| ALT peaks quickly and drops slowly over 3-4 weeks. It can be an indicator of liver or cardiac issues, but it can be caused by drugs.
Bailey had an ALT of 700+ in July. She had been on prednisone and antibiotics 2 weeks before her July appt. By the middle of July, it was back under 200. But Pearl does sound like she needs to be tested for Cushings. |
| ^^^^^
I agree...and I am hoping my vet will too!!!! If it is Cushings, at least I will know what I am dealing and find ways to treat it. Thanks again... |
| Val. I'm sorry to hear this is still happening . When they tested the liver did they give you the bilirubin count? Does she show any signs of jaundice anywhere? With Daisy's never determined liver disease her bilirubin count was off the charts and she was yellow around the eyes, gums and belly. |
| Gosh Holly...I don't know!!! That is a great question!! She doesn't look jaundice to me, but since it is 2 in the morning, I guess I will have to wait until sunrise to check... ..**had a bad dream about her and woke up crying..weird isn't it????
The rest of the results have not come back, to hopefully, on Monday, we'll have a better idea of what is going on~~ I have to say, thankfully, she is acting better.After two weeks of laying, sleeping, and not much more, she was barking at the front door and pushing the other two clowns out of the way for pets!! There is a little bounce to her step again. 
Actually, outside of a virus last year, Pearl has not had ANY problems up until now, so I am hoping she will be able to be recoup from this and come back one hundred percent!!! |
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| Th fact that she is acting like she feels is a very good thing.
Here's hoping for good lab results tomorrow. |
| Lola says to tell Pearl to hang in there. |
| So happy that Pearl is feeling better |
| Any news?? (OK, it is just 8:02 am.....) |
Nooooo...I hope to hear something today..I will call at about 11 and then again at 3 and then again at 5 IF I dont hear.. We have been visiting at the same facility for the last 10 years,,,I have seen many teams come and go...many great recreational therapists leave...and I am so sad that Pearl will not be part of this facility anymore. They are having a retirement party for Pearl tonight in the Central West End....It will be very bittersweet for both of us!!! |
sheepieshake wrote: :lmt:
We have been visiting at the same facility for the last 10 years,,,I have seen many teams come and go...many great recreational therapists leave...and I am so sad that Pearl will not be part of this facility anymore. They are having a retirement party for Pearl tonight in the Central West End....It will be very bittersweet for both of us!!! This just breaks my heart. Think about all the people she's helped. I hope she continues to bounce back. |
| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gina...mine too~~~~
((I just hope we can straighten all of this out so she can still to the PAWS program in October.)))  |
| Finally, just heard from the vet...All test results are in and he strongly thinks Pearl has Cushings..((at least I know)).
Since her only symptoms at this point are excessive drinking and peeing..no bloat~~I am taking a week 'off'...and just letting her be. Of course monitoring her every move... ...I feel she is losing weight, even though she is eating a lot, but I think I will wait until next week, take her in for a checkup, weigh her..and possibly set up the ALL DAY appointment for the Cushings test.
Thanks again for all your wonderful support and caring... ..and I know, if she could, Pearl would thank you too for helping her mom prepare for whatever is going to happen..... |
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SheepieMommy wrote: :( |
SheepieMommy wrote: :( |
SheepieMommy wrote: :(
Keeping you and Pearl in my thoughts. |
SheepieMommy wrote: :(
We're thinking of you here |
| Thinking of you and Pearl. |
| Give Pearl Girl a big hug from Chewie and I, please |
| We are thinking of you. Hugs to you and Pearl. |
| Thinking of you and Pearl. |
| thinking of you and pearl. give her a big kiss from Gigi and Bogey! |
| I hope all is well with your baby. |
| Getting her out last night really helped me realize that I have 2 choices for Pearl's future...
I can wrap her in shrink wrap and keep her as quiet and comfortable as possible, not letting her do the things she loves, so she will be with me a while longer...I almost made this terrible mistake... BUT, after seeing this picture from her party, 
I realized, for the first time, that not taking her out, letting her have some kind of outside activity for fear she would get hurt again, was doing more harm to her...mentally and emotionally. She is a WORKING dog....she worked for her Advanced Rally Title...she worked for her Dog Scout badges...she worked as a therapy dog...All her life, once every 2 weeks, making a difference in someones life if only for 5 minutes.........until 3 weeks ago. I gave up on her...literally...I wanted to just let her be..leave her alone to enjoy whatever time she has left..almost called to remove her from the PAWS program..ALMOST....until last night!!!!! So I am choosing 'door #2"........I will let her do the things she loves, the things that make Pearl, Pearl... So again...I thank everyone for their kind, supporting words, encouraging words....for being there...and because of all of you and because of Pearl telling what she wants, the best gift I can give her is ..do nothing, just let her live her life to the fullest.... WHAT MORE CAN ANYONE ASK ?????? |
|
Go Pearl. That photo is one of the biggest sheepie grins I've seen in a while. |
| I'm so happy you haven't given up on Pearl. There are still some options. If it is Cushings,it might be due to tumors on the adrenal glands...which can be removed. Other dogs can be treated with meds--hormone suppressants. Treatment may allow Pearl to continue on.
Yes, her hair will thin, her skin will thin and be more prone to bruising, her body mass will change, and eventually she'll be too weak to stand or move.......but that's in the future. Right now she's a working dog......as you said.......and she loves her job. She's working with people with medical problems, her having her own is yet another benefit....you can continue on even when there are limitations. Let Pearl tell you when it's time to retire. |
| Val, Pearl made the right decision and you are doing the right thing by listening to her. She looks so happy in that picture. |
| She does look happy! We LOVE you Pearl. |
| she looks like you did make the right choice for her!! go pearl |
I think you are doing what is best for your Pearl Girl! We chose the same for Quin and he got his CGC two months after his lympoma diagnosis....he still enjoyed doing it so, we kept it up! |
| Oh she looks so happy! Sounds like she is a happy dog when she is doing something. Go ! enjoy! |
| Val you and Pearl made the best decision for both of you.
Please keep us updated...........Kathy |
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