Trouble with Socializing
I'm a first-time parent myself, so I'm not sure what the "normal" social interactions should be. When we walked the lab by himself later in the day, he interacted with several other big dogs without having problems, leading me to suspect that Curtis is the dog with social issues here. If anyone has any advice that might renew my hopes for some companionship for my sheepie, I'd love to here it! Thanks! |
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| Are both the males neutered? (or Tutored as we like to say!) Also, does Curtis have hair over his eyes? A lot dogs are suspicious of OES as they find them threatening....I know, sounds wierd, but it's true! If Curtis has hair over his eyes, try putting it up in a pony tail so his eyes are exposed and try again. I've only had problems with my guys and other dogs when they were in full coat AND they didn't meet the other dog on "neutral" territory. Try meeting in a park and have Curtis' hair pulled up and do a walk by the Lab and see if it makes a difference. Good luck!! In general OES get along fine with other breeds and GREAT with their own. It's usually the other breed that doesn't "get" their body language and feel intimidated.
Cathy |
| I agree with the hair scenario. Also on leash, the initial sniffing should be very short, maybe not at all. You are allowing each to establish their pecking order. You guys are the alpha while on leash. So try again this time meet and just start walking, walk for 15 to 30 minutes get to a safe play area if possible, take them off leash and let them play. This should work. You could forgo the walk and meet at a neutral territory and let them both off leash it is almost guranteed they will get along. If one growls give immeadiate correction (not hitting) just say no and put your hand on the neck to let them know you are the alpha and mean business.
good luck |
| Threatened dogs have only two possible responses, fight or flight. While on a leash, flight is not possible so fighting is inevitable unless you both have extremely passive non-alpha dogs. I agree that you should give these two a chance to meet off leash until they get a chance to establish the pecking order. You may need to do so each time you meet for the first several meetings, then they should be okay. Please be patient, it can take longer than you would like but they will become familiar if they get the chance. Good luck, it is really nice to have a walking buddy. |
| Wow! Lots of great advice here! I NEVER would have thought about the idea of fur covering the eyes. Neutral territory is also a great suggestion. I suspect our furry friends are just as suceptable to feeling uncomfortable in a stranger's house/yard as we are, so that makes good sense. Of the two dogs, Curtis is the only one who is not yet neutered. Perhaps its finally time to make an appointment with our vet! Does anyone have any experience they can share about how their social disposition changes they're fixed? I'd hate to see Curtis become lethargic on me.
Thanks again for all the great suggestions. Hopefully the weather will clear up soon and Curtis and I can give our socializing another shot... I'll keep you posted! |
| Hi,
Most owners whom have their dogs greet each other on leashes may not realize that actually dogs are more defensive on a leash. You see, the dogs come into contact face to face. In dog language this may be viewed as aggressive. Dogs normally greet each other side to side - the whole butt sniffing thing. They avoid making direct eye contact, which again is seen as a challenge in dog language. You can perhaps see why, some dogs which may normally not be antsy around other dogs may be while on a leash, as owners frequently hold back on the leash not allowing for the side to side greeting but inadvertedly a face to face first contact. Dogs usually are placed into a home between the ages of 8 - 10 wks so as they become properly socialized with people as well as other dogs. After the age of 4 months, dogs will always have some difficulty relating to people and are more dog related. Those taken away from their mom and siblings before the age of 8 wks are often more people oriented and may not know the doggie social rules and behaviors. These are not 100% indicators but it may give some predictors as to the dogs future behavior. It's why it's highly recommended that dogs are socialized as much as possible with people and other dogs at the age of 12 wks and up (when they've had all their shots.) In the past, when I did educational pet talks for the Humane Educational Society,I would ask kids the following questions. How they would feel if they went home today and found a new kid in their home sitting in their room? I would then explain this new kid was wearing their clothes, sitting on their bed and eating their snacks. Of course all the kids said they would really dislike that! You can kinda place yourself in your dogs paws if a new dog was on their territory instead of neutral ground. Most animals do not do well if their first meet and greet was done on their turf. It's always best to meet in a place where neither have a sense of ownership. Whether you have 2 dogs or a 100 in a park, one will always emerge as the Alpha of the group. Usually this is displayed by the tail being held upright (hard to tell with our boys and girls) the body made to appear bigger and they try to dominate the others. They are taking the leadership roles. The submissive ones have tails tucked in and kinda crouch appearing to make themselves look smaller. They usually work out the dominance thing on their own according to doggie social rules. There is a difference between dominance and aggression, however. A dominant dog may cause other dogs to do the belly up flip which is in dog language saying..oh I give up ...you're the boss. The dog which shows his belly will then always acknowledge the other one is top dog. An aggressive dog will keep going for that dog almost in our culture like kicking a man when he's down. You may have problems when two dogs both want the leadership role and neither will back down to the other. They will constantly challenge each other which may be the anicedents to fights. Except for wolves whom fight to the death in dog culture this is extremely rare but an all and all fight may occur. The next time they see each other usually the looser had to acknowledge the winner is the Alpha. Although, they may still fight which is rare but can happen as again if neither is willing to relenquish the Alpha position. A intact dog is seen by other dogs as threats. Some offleash dog parks in my city will not allow intact dogs. (There's controversy over this) Other dogs are jealous of the intact dogs as their status is much higher on the dog heirachy scale. A neutered cat for example is on the last rung of cats heirachy in their own neighborhood, and supposedly its much the same with dogs. Clues to their status are given off in their urine which why so many dogs are prone to leaving their own identity on poles and trees around the neighborhood. In answer to your question, yes neutering would make a difference. According to my vet, the testostorone takes several weeks to level off and they resume to being back to puppylike again. The longer the neutering is put off, the more adult behavior is displayed - leg lifting, humping (which isn't necessarily always sexual but a sign of dominance.) Dogs should not be allowed to hump another dog as this is seen as a challenge and again may be the anticident to an upcoming fight. It's also important to remember just like people they may be umpteenth reasons why we don't like someone due to personality clashes and it is the same with dogs. At my offleash dog parks it's interesting to see those whom have made bonds with other dogs (sorta like kids and best friends.) There are the really socialable ones, whom get along with all the other dogs and have no interest in being boss, the grumpy ones, the bossy ones...you get the idea. Good luck with Curtis and hopefully these two will eventually learn to get along. Marianne and the boys |
| Wow, I learned alot on this post. Jules usually has to growl at a dog first and then she wants to play. I think she is saying "I am strong and you can't hurt me....but now that that out LETS PLAY!" The problem with this is usually the dog owner is upset and thinks she will hurt them (which she will not) and takes the dog right away. Or the dog gets mad and starts to snap at her...and she snaps back. I did not even think about her hair that is over her eyes. I think I will start to keep it up when we go out. The closest dog park is 20 miles away! I envy you guys who have one close. She usually only meets other dogs while on leash at a local park. |
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