Is it time to report child neglect?
A few doors down from us, a younger couple lives there with their two kids, a boy who is six and a girl who is four. From my house I cannot see their house because there's a lot of foliage. The mom told me that our house is the cutoff and they aren't allowed past it but, as I said, there's no visibility from their place plus, it's not like the mom is even outside watching them. The parents never come out of the house and the kids are unsupervised all day. I don't know the parents at all so it's not like making my house a cutoff says anything because we could be sickos for all they know. One day, the kids were out playing in front of my house with another neighborhood girl (running back and forth across a busy street-- again, no supervision) and they saw Owen through an open window and went nuts. They begged to pet him. So, I took him out, let them pet and talked to them for awhile. This single nice gesture has turned into two months of stress and hell for me. These kids have been over every day for the last three months. They pound on my door all day long no matter how many times we told them to stop and if we're home or not. We pull into the driveway from work, they're either sitting on our porch waiting or they're pounding on the door within minutes of us getting in the house. If we ask them to leave, they're back in 10 minutes, pounding. It makes the dogs absolutely crazy, which is upsetting enough to me. I get a lot of migraines and I've been really sick lately with them so I'm home a lot and, it turns out, they're on my porch all day by themselves. Aside from the knocking and doorbell ringing, they've started pulling our garbage can out into the yard, spilling the garbage and pulling the mail out of the mailbox and throwing it in the street when we aren't home. There's yogurt smeared all over my door and drinks spilled all over the porch, too. Now, these in themselves are bad enough to me. I don't have kids for a reason! We're always really nice to them and I've given the little girl a lot of stuff (including food because she's always hungry). She always tell us she loves us and gives us hugs. It used to be that she was satisfied with just petting the dogs but then she insisted on coming inside the house. If we'd tell her no, she'd push her way through to get in. We told her no and went and talked to the mother to tell her what's going on because, like I said, this kid is over ALL the time, four years old, alone and sometimes for hours and not ONE TIME has anyone come looking for her. The mom nonchalantly was like, "Oh, yeah, she just loves everyone." At this time, we tried to gently tell her about the incessant knocking and my migraines and her only response was "Yeah, I heard they've been knocking on other people's doors, too."  I'm not sure I can verbalize how constant the disturbances from these kids are. At ages six and four, their curfew is nightfall so that leaves them a lot of time to be around. I won't even mention how much I love getting woken up on weekends.
Anyway, on to the other stuff. This little girl breaks my heart. She's a sweet little girl and just pitiful. The only reason I've let this insanity go on so long is because of how sorry I feel for her and I just want her to have some kind of positive influence so I'lll let her come in the house and read to her or let her help me groom the dogs. Sometimes we watch cartoons. She's (obviously) lacking attention. Her speech is really bad for a kid her age. She's always absolutely filthy and I know she isn't bathed for days at a time because she'll have braids in but three days later, she still has the waves in her hair from where they've been taken out. I've NEVER seen her wear shoes. She smells and, the worst and most concerning part to me, she's constantly scratching her crotch. Constantly. She's covered in cuts and bruises which I don't think are from abuse but simply because she's never supervised so she gets into things that she shouldn't. Today I came home and just had it. My mail was thrown in the yard and the mailbox was half pulled off the house. The garbage can was stomped on and trash was all over the porch. All this time, every time we came home, James would always say "Well, we've never seen it happen. Maybe it's some other kids messing with us." Now, come on. They're over all day, that I know. How likely is it to be another set of prankster kids? Well, this time, on the porch was a cell phone and when I opened it, I saw that it said Allison's phone. Allison is the four year old. (And don't ask me what a four year old is doing with a cell phone.) I went over to the kids' house and Allison answered the door and I told her to get her mom (who knows where she was?). I told her that I'd had enough. The incessant knocking, the property destruction, the messes on the porch, the garbage and mail in the street, getting woken up and really just the total lack of privacy anymore. Oh, did I also mention that if we forget to lock a door, the four year old just walks in the house? I told the mother that I didn't want them near my house anymore. The mother had virtually no reaction which was even more infuriating to me. James was there and had a typical man reaction, kind of shrinking away and was seemingly embarrassed that I blew up. Now, admittedly, it's been nice to finally have a nice relaxing, knock free evening but now that I've had time to calm down, I'm still really concerned for that little girl. I mean, c'mon, she's four years old. Is there anyone that thinks it's normal in this day and age to let a adorable little girl alone and unsupervised in the city with sex offenders on the loose? Heck, all that aside, how about just general safety? She NEVER looks before she runs across the street and one time, I saw a car screech to a halt to miss her and her brother. No mom in sight. And, as I mentioned, incredibly concerning to me is the constant crotch scratching. I have no idea what's happening down there but it can't be good. So, after this epic drama of a post, I'm not sure what to do. Is this enough neglect to make a report to child protective services? To me it is but James says no. I'm not trying to ruin anyone's life here but I really don't feel like this little girl isn't safe running the neighborhood as she is. I feel terrible because I really like this kid but I also feel like there's no happy medium of a relationship with her. I don't want the responsibility of having to care for a child that isn't even mine and we've really reached a breaking point where she'd disrupting our lives. It's pretty clear that the parents are oblivious to everything so it's not as if talking to them first helps. Wow, this may be, hands down, the longest post I've ever made. I suppose a lot of it is just venting but what do you guys think? Would you call CPS? What would you do if you were in my place? |
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| hmmmm...
I would call child protection or whatever it goes by in your county. It sounds like this is a time bomb - waiting for some truly unfortunate accident to happen for both these kids. 
Maybe you should bathe her along with the dog grooming....... |
| I don't have children either - so I am not an expert when it comes to something like this- - but if I were you, I would go ahead and contact child welfare. Child welfare is for situations just like this. They will examine the situation and conclude if there are any concerns - if there aren't, then no big deal - if there are - then the children and the family will get the help they need.
I am sorry you are having to deal with this. Thank you for caring. |
| WOW!!! Jill...I am so sorry you are going through this!!!
You are right to think that nonsupervised children should be reported for the obvious reasons of saftey, not to mention the distruction of your property and your peace of mind . I had this problem when my kids were young. There was one particular family who would tell their kids to come to my house, since I was a stay at home mom and my children were in our backyard playing in the summer. I felt like I was their personal free babysitter!!! And, I did resent it...these kids has no other contact with my kids, they did not attend the same school, they were older///younger than mine..etc...Eventually, I had to have a talk with the mom and she became very angry about this. I assume because she lost her free babysitter!!! But your situation is so much more difficult. If you are nice to these kids, it sounds like they are taking advantage of your kindness and if you are 'short' with them, they are retaliating by destroying your property. In my opinion, I would contact the child abuse hotline and let them know there may be some neglect happening. NON superived children..is a form of child abuse!!! The busy street has me very concerned for their safety and well being.. Of course you feel bad for the little girl. So do I, but you can't fix the problem, you are only a neighbor. IF the parents are investigated, maybe, in the long run, they will wake up and smell the coffee..and start to care for their children the way they should. It might just help this family!!!! Please keep us posted on what you decide.... |
| I would make an anonymous call to DHS (Department of Human Services). I would simply state that I was a concerned member of the community that have witnessed unsupervised minors and that they seem to be suffering neglect. Since the children are unsupervised, dirty, and hungry, they are most definitely neglected.
DHS will have to send out an agent to inspect the property and see what condition the children are in. The children may be placed into a foster situation until the parents can rectify their living conditions. Working at a mental health clinic, we deal with a lot of DHS and neglected children in our population. You would be helping those kids in the long run from terrible emotional and psychological problems. I also wonder if the mother doesn't have some problems of her own. If she is showing no emotion or reaction, then that is concerning too. Go with your gut. |
I would call.  |
| No brainer there call. Age of the kids is a concern to be running wild with no parents around supervising them. If they got hit by a car or even worse abducted then you would feel worse if you did not call.
There not your responsibility but something needs to be done if it keeps happening and if no response or action by the mother, firstly I would write a note to the mother and hand deliver it to her to say if no response or action you will report her. That way you have warned her to take action and controll her kids if not then call.  |
| The law in most states requires that if you suspect abuse, and neglect is a form of abuse, you must make the call to whatever the child protective agency is called in your state. It is the job of the caseworkers to investigate and decide what the facts are and what should be done for the safety of the children.
The agencies are also required to protect your name. If the parents confront you about this, and it can happen, just look shocked, then look them in the eye and lie. I am not telling you to scare you, but so you are prepared. We report families every year, and some more than once, and I have only been confronted twice in 15 years. I would also think about waiting a couple of days to report it. The distance between the confrontation tonight and the phone call will make it less likely for the mother to think you did it. And I am really conflicted in suggesting this - the situation has gone on for months, but if something were to happen tomorrow that could have been prevented by your phone call... Don't let the mother make you feel quilty. Many of these "parents" are excellent at guilttripping others when they should be feeling guilty. Do what is best for the child. |
| I don't know what the laws are there, but I think you should definitely make that call. Those kids are in danger. |
| Make the call today!!!!!!
This could get worse. First it is against the law to tamper with the mail. Get a post office box and remove the box on your home. The parents are responceable! for the children. Can you lock up your garbage? put it in the garage? by this you remove some of their damaging things. less clean up for you. LOCK YOUR DOORS and don't answer the door. call the police! the parents will have to deal with them. Do not take your dogs for a walk untill this is settled. their lives may depend on it. I won;t say how and why but please do something to stop this NOW. I know!!!!!!! |
| Make the call.
My Mum worked with neglected children as a child support person in schools till she retired recently. Sorry to be negative, the most common (but not the only) reason for a young girl to be scratching her crotch is that she has been sexually abused. This might be why they wont go home and it might be why their Mum doesnt mind them being out a lot too. Good luck. I hope things get better for you and for them. |
| I would never in a million years, no matter how smart or anything, leave a 4 yo in the FRONT YARD alone for even 10 min. let alone let them wonder off!! That disgusts me to hear. Lil J is almost 4, and there's no way we could even leave him in the backyard ...totally fenced b/c he'd possibly find a way to open the shed and get seriously injured (not knowing what he can/cannot touch).
With that said, if a 4yo came to my door w/no parents in sight, I'd walk them back to their door and expect their mom to be grateful and totally shocked they went to my house even if they were RIGHT NEXT DOOR. Every single time it happened, I would do this ...stressing how dangerous the street was. If it happened more than 3 times, I would have called someone. Completely not acceptable.  |
| Call Family Social Services. You'll be doing both of these kids a service and maybe the parents. It sounds like the family needs help in general.
You don't want to look back in time and say "I wish I had done something." Good luck! |
| I think you already know what you have to do - make that call.
You don't mention the father. If he's working during the day and the mother has that complacent attitude, she may be the one in trouble - on drugs, drunk, being abused herself. If the father is home during the day, that makes the situation even worse. Don't delay another second - make that call. |
| Hi, Jill - I think you told me a little about this at the last show, but I didn't realize it was this bad. You do realize if the little girl IS abused, they will try to figure out who did it, and the mom will say she was at YOUR house all day and James might be under suspicion? I would definitely not let the little girl in again, and I would not even report it anonymously. I would give them your name and go on record with everything you just posted, and then if the mom is mad at you, maybe she'll keep her kids away!
Beth |
| By all means, make the call. In a perverse sort of way, it's a good thing that the kids 'made their presence known', so to speak; had they not tormented you it's possible that no one would have ever caught on to the fact that they were being neglected.
When my boys were little I did in-home day care and worked with the toughest kids - The DHS abuse/neglect kids. At one point I had 6 of them in my home on a daily basis - 5 of them were from one family. These kids were so damaged that I doubt very much that they will ever be whole, but I did my best. On the first day the family of five came to me, it took 6 hours for me to wash the littlest girl's hair (She was 4) and get the matted tangles out. I won't tell you what was in those matts, but they had animals in their house and the kids slept on the floor. Enough said. She couldn't stop looking at herself in the mirror - Her brother told me that nobody ever washed her hair before. You would be doing the kids a favor by making that call. No child should ever have to live like that. |
| Wow, how sad.
I would call. I've heard it's anonymous, and there's no way for the neighbor to prove it was you. I would bet there's something going on with the mom (drugs, drinking) because I can't think of anyone these days who would let their kids wander around like that. |
| Your reporting it does NOT mean that the family will be given that information. Nor do you have to admit it to the family but the above post is correct you need to report it for your safety.
I also agree with calling the police anytime there is tampering with your mail/mailbox or vandalism on your property (garbage). This also sets a written record of complaints that will make it harder for them to fly under the radar. I wonder if the kids are in the garbage because they are hungry. We had a similar situation in our old neighborhood twenty years ago. Someone did call child services but it only resulted in the kids knocking on doors after 8:00 am instead of 7:00 am and the parents monitoring the kids for maybe two weeks. There was no beating or sexual abuse going on in this case but it was definitely neglect - kids both unsupervised and filthy. Plus the house and yard looked like a junk yard and there were several nasty cats wandering the property. The people still live there and the kids turned out as best they could under those crappy circumstances. It was nice of you to try to do something nice for the child but you have to take care of yourself and James first. The best thing you can do for that child is make the authorities aware of the situation. Good Luck. |
| The Childhelp National Child Abuse Hotline, 1-800-4-A-CHILD, provides confidential, toll-free assistance to:
Children who are being abused and want help Frustrated parents who are about to lose control and are seeking help Adults and children requesting the local telephone number to report cases of abuse Adult survivors of child abuse who are feeling unsafe or suicidal Adults requesting parenting tips, definitions of child abuse, or names of recommended books regarding parenting, child development or adult survivor issues Professionals in the fields of mental health, social work, education, medicine, fire service, etc., who could benefit from consultation and/or referrals |
| Just a couple of ideas to add to your dilemma. Rest assured that since you actually spoke to the Mother with your concerns there is a very high likilyhood that she will see you as the number one suspect in the event of any type investigation by Social Services. I may try one of two other options. First, can you reach either of the Grandparents? Are they nearby or do they visit? You may be able to talk rationally to them. another option would be to speak either to your Minister/Rabbi/ Priest or if you know who their's is you may contact them. If these are not the way you want to go, then by all means file an official conplaint through Social Services. My thought is that the Social Service route is by far the most dramatic and could actually result in ramifications you might not expect. |
| Do yo really suspect Jill is the only one who has complained to the Mom?
In that case she could do nothing and be one of those people who get interviewed on the news after a tragedy saying I wish there was something I could have done for the poor kid. Or you could move  |
| Jill- I just cringed reading your post. Having 3 children of my own ages 7, 5 and 3, I could not imagine letting them run loose unsupervised for 1 second, never mind all day! You would be doing right by these children by reporting the situation to the proper authorities. If nothing else by doing this the parents will have to bathe, feed, clothe and supervise their children as I am sure CPS will make follow up visits to ensure these children are being properly taken care of. I feel so sorry for them. |
kerry wrote: Do yo really suspect Jill is the only one who has complained to the Mom?
I was wondering how transient the family is - in other words do you think they purchased the home or are they renting? If they are renters they may have a pattern of this and just keep changing neighborhoods when there are enough complaints. In our current neighborhood we have a family who fits that bill. Except that the grandfather bought them a house - they burned down the previous one. They had issues at their other house as well. They originally had a dog (they eventually got rid of it) that was left outside all day long no matter what the weather that barked constantly. My neighbor between us told me that the people (a father in his 50's and a daughter in her 30's) are living in just the two back bedrooms with window units. To save money they apparently stopped their trash service until they were told it was illegal. They weren't mowing their lawn and did not rake the leaves in the backyard for over a year. You never see any sign of life except when the daughter goes to work and comes home - then it is like the Bat Cave - out of the car into the house with no contact with civilization. |
baileesdad wrote: Just a couple of ideas to add to your dilemma. Rest assured that since you actually spoke to the Mother with your concerns there is a very high likilyhood that she will see you as the number one suspect in the event of any type investigation by Social Services. I may try one of two other options. First, can you reach either of the Grandparents? Are they nearby or do they visit? You may be able to talk rationally to them. another option would be to speak either to your Minister/Rabbi/ Priest or if you know who their's is you may contact them. If these are not the way you want to go, then by all means file an official conplaint through Social Services. My thought is that the Social Service route is by far the most dramatic and could actually result in ramifications you might not expect.
Sorry, I can't agree with this. In the time it takes you to either find the grandparents, or get a clergy member to talk to them, something tragic can happen to the kids. I couldn't live with the guilt if that happened because I dragged my feet. |
| Boy you have gotten alot of response to this and it looks like some real good advise. The only thing I can add is this; my parents had a foster home when I was growing up and abuse comes in all shapes and sizes including mental, sexual and neglect... this little girl definatly seems neglected and God knows what else.... if you don't call and something aweful happens are you prepared to deal with those emotions? You sound like a caring loving person and I think you need to TRUST your instincts...
please let us know what happens............ |
| Call. The details in your post lead to no other option in my opinion. Personally, I wouldn't care if they knew it was me or not. I would rather have the parents upset with me about calling the authorities, than something horrible happening to those kids. Kids that age not being supervised is a cry for someone to step in, and take control of their welfare.
Beyond that, your privacy is being invaded-- and that is just rude and unacceptable. I have NO idea about the law--but-- if they were to get hurt on your property-- would you be responsible?? |
Abuckie wrote: Beyond that, your privacy is being invaded-- and that is just rude and unacceptable. I have NO idea about the law--but-- if they were to get hurt on your property-- would you be responsible??
ABSOLUTELY! |
| Yes, I'd make the call to CPS.
Be aware that in your situation, despite the fact that CPS has to keep your identity private, it won't be lost on the parents that it's you at this point. |
| If you left your sheepies on the street to do as they wished how long would it be before they were removed, why should it be okay for people to do the same with young kids?
Report them before some poor person has the chance to run one of them over and suffer all the guilt that goes with it. This needs nipping in the bud. |
| First of all, thanks for all of your responses. I think, above all, I needed to know that I was not overreacting and that I was, indeed, in the right. In my mind, I know I was but I'd be lying if I said that sometimes things really do bother me more than they do other people.
rdf wrote: Yes, I'd make the call to CPS. Be aware that in your situation, despite the fact that CPS has to keep your identity private, it won't be lost on the parents that it's you at this point. This is the only reason that I really haven't called-- and it's not about them knowing it was me, per say, but I don't want James to have to suffer any repercussions as I'm FULLY aware that there could be some sort of retaliation. I don't want to be afraid to come home. If it comes down to my life getting ruined or someone else's, I'm afraid that I'm siding on the side of my happiness. kerry wrote: Do yo really suspect Jill is the only one who has complained to the Mom? In that case she could do nothing and be one of those people who get interviewed on the news after a tragedy saying I wish there was something I could have done for the poor kid. Or you could move Even if Im the only one in the neighborhood that has finally complained to the mother, I am certainly not the only one aware of the problem. I talked to the mom of another little girl across the street and she is also very annoyed but since they play with her little girl, I think she lets it go a little more. She ends up feeding the kids and keeping them a lot when she's home, too, which kills me because she and her husband both work two jobs to support their kid and they don't need the extra burden but they're just a nice young couple who I also think just hopes these parents will wake up and watch their own kids. Kerry, don't think that I haven't considered moving, to the point of actually talking to James about it and getting a realtor's card from a friend. James doesn't want to sell the house or move right now so I got shot down but, if it were up to me, that would've been my solution. My sister has a 6000+ square foot house and she said we could stay there while we found another house or built. baileesdad wrote: Just a couple of ideas to add to your dilemma. Rest assured that since you actually spoke to the Mother with your concerns there is a very high likilyhood that she will see you as the number one suspect in the event of any type investigation by Social Services. I may try one of two other options. First, can you reach either of the Grandparents? Are they nearby or do they visit? You may be able to talk rationally to them. another option would be to speak either to your Minister/Rabbi/ Priest or if you know who their's is you may contact them. If these are not the way you want to go, then by all means file an official conplaint through Social Services. My thought is that the Social Service route is by far the most dramatic and could actually result in ramifications you might not expect. I suppose I should make it clear that yesterday, I did not speak about my concerns. In no uncertain terms, I listed all the infractions and told her I'd had enough of this crap and I was done. I told her to keep them off my property, away from my porch, away from my mail and our house. She just kept saying "Okay, okay." No apology, just "Okay." It was, I thought, a really odd reaction, almost like she knew it was wrong and she'd been caught. I've never seen grandparents though the kids talk about them but they said they live "very far away" but in kid terms, I don't know what this means. I know there's no way they go t church because they knock on my door way to early on Sundays to make any service, LOL. I do like the idea of sending over someone from the Ayn Rand Institute to talk to them, though.  I actually fully expect ramifications, which is what is what makes me hesitate to call. SheepieMommy wrote: I was wondering how transient the family is - in other words do you think they purchased the home or are they renting? If they are renters they may have a pattern of this and just keep changing neighborhoods when there are enough complaints. They own the home and, honestly, the home isn't in absolutely horrible condition. They're pretty quiet and, other than letting the kids leave their toys and bikes out all the time, they aren't really bad as neighbors go outside of the kid problem. They seem relatively normal and from the few times I've talked to the mom, she doesn't seem like a drunk or an addict, just really stupid. They do have a crappy dog that they don't pay any attention to that barks all the time and they can't wait to breed her. Normally, this would be enough to make me hate them but the kid problem supersedes the dog problem. I guess the only other thing keeping me from making a report is that some days, the kids ARE clean and seemingly normal. The parents put them in a car, take them out to eat and they come back pretty happy. I think I'm letting those few times that I've seen things like that that happen affect my judgment. The father seems to be at work but it doesn't appear to be the same shift every day so I don't know what's going on there. The mom is definitely the one always home. I never really thought about it but now I should watch to see if there's some sort of pattern hen he's there. Archies Slave wrote: If you left your sheepies on the street to do as they wished how long would it be before they were removed, why should it be okay for people to do the same with young kids?
You know, it's funny that you make that comparison because I won't even let my dogs out of my sight for longer than 5 minutes (if that) and I often think of that when I see these kids out alone. I'd never even let the dogs in the front yard alone! Ugh, I'm just so annoyed that I'm even put in this position. I told James that I wish they'd just give the girl to us and I'd just adopt her and raise her right-- and you all know how much I want kids so you know I must feel strongly about it! I think the boy is a little better off. He's older and likes video games so he doesn't roam the streets as much but, to be perfectly frank, I find him creepy and annoying and I think he knows it so he doesn't come over as much as the girl when I'm home. He smells worse than the girl but that could be just because he's a boy. Well, this morning, all the bikes and toys were put away for the first time in months and I didn't see the kids since I went and unloaded on the mother at 6 p.m. yesterday. James was not thrilled with me but, at the same time, he agreed. He was hoping, I think, to take care of this more congenially but he is a classic enabler of people in situations like this and will never confront anyone. He always holds on to the hope that someday, people will come to their senses and do the right thing. He is kind of a crazy person. |
| Just as a slight tangent. If you sent over an Ayn Randian to that house, I'd think you'd never have your neighbors even looking your way. I think they'd bolt the doors everytime you came home from work. |
* Capt. Obvious Danger wrote: Just as a slight tangent. If you sent over an Ayn Randian to that house, I'd think you'd never have your neighbors even looking your way. I think they'd bolt the doors everytime you came home from work.
Lol. I think they'd just be confused. |
I just read through this and I agree that you should call. As a teacher I am instructed yearly on how to recognize situations where there is some form of neglect or worse going on, and if you're not sure, make the call for the child's sake. I saw a child while I was vacationing this year that I am still haunted by. Covered in bruises and cuts - she was out with her parents at a playground. Her dad made sure to explain what each bruise was from (and no one asked) - it was a terrible situation. I didn't think fast enough about calling and by the time I made it back to where we were staying it was too late. I'll never forget it.  |
| If your neighbors had their dog wandering around at risk of being hit by a car, getting lost, etc. would you call? I'm sad to admit that I suspect you would. I understand your reluctance to get involved, but from your description, that was never really your decision to make. The kids chose you and your lovely OES to go for help -- and who can blame them. They do not know to ask you directly for help, but they did what little kids do to get attention. Unfortunately, that sometimes escalates to annoying and aggrevating, but that's all kids know how to do.
I hear you not wanting to feel unsafe in your own home and fearing retaliation and that your happiness comes first. The way you describe the kids with concern and care, I have a hard time believing that you would really rather choose to be happy than get a child help. If you really cared for your own comfort more, you would have not entertained or engaged with the little ones at all. But you did, because you care. On that same chord, I urge you to continue caring and make the call. It is mandated that reporters remain anonymous to clients. Sure they can speculate, but they will never have to know for sure. You can make sure in your report that you fear retaliation -- they will ask you for supporting information, why would the family retaliate, is there history of that etc. CPS in theory also works with families to provide them support (I KNOW that is not how families often experience the intervention) and services to fix what seems to be missing. On occasion that interaction is not seen as adverserial and punitive. Again, I urge you to call. Please, before something more drastic happens to the children, I wonder how guaranteed your happiness might be in that scenario. And thanks for caring. Even if you decide not to call, I know you care, because you brougth the issue up in the first place. 
Salla --- yes I'm a social worker if you didn't guess already. |
| You've been very kind to the children but aside from loss of privacy and home invasion, they clearly need guidance and care that is not appropriate for you to provide, even if you felt it was something you could/should/wanted to do.
Now you need to be even kinder: call whatever social services or child welfare is called in your neck of the woods, to get the kids, and hopefully, the whole family the help that they need. My best guess is that there are serious mental health issues with the mom, at least. Kids are definitely neglected. RE: girl's scratching at her crotch. Could be evidence of sexual abuse. Could also be evidence of poor hygiene. If she isn't bathed regularly, she may not have been taught the proper way to wipe, so easily could have some sort of infection from that. Or a yeast infection from dirty underwear, or even irritation from bubble baths (although it sounds as though she gets very few of those.) |
| No fair trying to guilt trip me with dog comparisons. But, it doesn't work on me anyway because when it comes to dogs and kids, dogs always come first. I know that is not always the popular view but it's mine and it's not up for debate. And make no mistake, the happiness of my household comes above all else. First and foremost, I went over and unloaded on the mother because I was angry about my property and privacy being violated-- and I still am.
But, I do appreciate all of your views. It has confirmed what I felt and I feel justified in making a complaint. I'm going to call but I'm not going to do it right now. Ultimately, I have to live near these people and I don't want trouble so I'd rather the call occur after I've had a chance to calm down and it doesn't seem like a retaliatory move by me because of all the aggravation and damage that the kids have caused us. Thank you again, everyone. I do appreciate you all taking the time to read my lengthy post and respond. I'll keep all of you updated as to how this plays out. |
| Jill, I woulld call CPS without hesitation. They can evaluate the situation and your call will be kept confidential. There are two issues here; your sanity and the children's safety. It's sad that you cannot befriend these kids without it controlling your life but it seems that that is the case.
You mentioned the Mom, is there a Dad involved? |
ButtersStotch wrote: No fair trying to guilt trip me with dog comparisons. But, it doesn't work on me anyway because when it comes to dogs and kids, dogs always come first. I know that is not always the popular view but it's mine and it's not up for debate. And make no mistake, the happiness of my household comes above all else. First and foremost, I went over and unloaded on the mother because I was angry about my property and privacy being violated-- and I still am.
But, I do appreciate all of your views. It has confirmed what I felt and I feel justified in making a complaint. I'm going to call but I'm not going to do it right now. Ultimately, I have to live near these people and I don't want trouble so I'd rather the call occur after I've had a chance to calm down and it doesn't seem like a retaliatory move by me because of all the aggravation and damage that the kids have caused us. Thank you again, everyone. I do appreciate you all taking the time to read my lengthy post and respond. I'll keep all of you updated as to how this plays out. We're not trying to guilt trip you, Jill. Just trying to make you understand it from a parent's point of view. Of course, to you, your dogs come first. Mine did too, until we had kids. Now I can't stand to see any child suffer, mine or not. The maternal instinct just wants to protect them. And these children are suffering. Yes, you are justified in making a complaint. I know you have to live by this family and you fear retaliation, but once you calm down enough, are these children going to be any better taken care of? That would be my driving force. |
| I wanted to clarify, since the dog comparison was in my post.
No, indeed, my intention was not to "guilt" you into any decision. I was trying to make a connection as from you post I understood you don't have your own children but feel very strongly about your dog(s). Without trying to make any further comparisons between dogs and children, they both are in the position of needing care and protection from adult humans. That's as far as I was going with it. Even thought this clearly is a passionately felt issue for all of us, you have the right to make your own decisions and the rest of us have the right to support and/or disagree with you -- that's what makes the world go around. Again, no blame/guilt intended. Salla. |
Tasker's Mom wrote: Jill, I woulld call CPS without hesitation. They can evaluate the situation and your call will be kept confidential. There are two issues here; your sanity and the children's safety. It's sad that you cannot befriend these kids without it controlling your life but it seems that that is the case.
You mentioned the Mom, is there a Dad involved? He's there but it's mom that's home all the time, he works. No, I was being a bit facetious about guilt tripping. I know none of you were doing that, it's just the way you feel. |
ButtersStotch wrote: Tasker's Mom wrote: Jill, I woulld call CPS without hesitation. They can evaluate the situation and your call will be kept confidential. There are two issues here; your sanity and the children's safety. It's sad that you cannot befriend these kids without it controlling your life but it seems that that is the case. You mentioned the Mom, is there a Dad involved? He's there but it's mom that's home all the time, he works. Well, I hate to play the "wait til your Father gets home" card but since you have addressed the issues with the mother with no success I'd find a time to speak to the dad. I wonder if he realizes what is really going on, the mom sounds like a space cadet. Ginny |
| I have to say, I have talked to the dad a few times and he seems less out of it than the mom. That might not be a bad idea if I can talk to him out of her sight. I also want to talk to my across the street neighbors and see if they have know any more about the situation because they get stuck with the kids a lot, too. |
got sheep wrote: hmmmm...
I would call child protection or whatever it goes by in your county. It sounds like this is a time bomb - waiting for some truly unfortunate accident to happen for both these kids. Maybe you should bathe her along with the dog grooming....... Under no circumstances touch that child. You'll end up being the one charged with with being a sexual pervert. |
Doggygirl wrote: got sheep wrote: hmmmm... I would call child protection or whatever it goes by in your county. It sounds like this is a time bomb - waiting for some truly unfortunate accident to happen for both these kids. Maybe you should bathe her along with the dog grooming....... Under no circumstances touch that child. You'll end up being the one charged with with being a sexual pervert. It was meant as a tongue-in-cheek statement, not literally. |
| After reading this thread, I would most definitely make an anonymous call to child services.
Clearly the father lives in the same house as these children and if the mother is neglecting the kids, what makes you think the father is any better??? He doesn't sound like a better parent if these kids are dirty to the point where you can physically see and smell it. Makes me question if the father even goes near his children at all which would also be neglect on his part as a parent. Do keep in mind, this little girl most likely has an infection in her "privates" and both children will most likely have some sort of skin, bug, lice infection as well which (not to scare you) could have brought it into your home.....What worries me the most is the fact that the mother doesn't watch the children or seem to care where they are....EVER! This isn't an overnight issue. These kids have been coming to your house for sometime now. It makes me wonder if the mother has a drug/alcohol problem or simply just does not care about her children. I wouldn't sit and think on it any longer. You can make an anonymous call. If it comes down to it and the mother pops over at your house or yells something at you in the street, you can play stupid if you fear about something happening to you and James in the future as far as disfacing your property. James sounds exactly like Arthur from what you are describing. I feel in my heart these kids need to be checked out by state services and professionals that know what they are doing to help the children. I know James will understand that in the long run..... Most people turn their heads to situations like this, but I respect you for what you are saying and what you really would like to do to help these kids. Bottom line....It shows you really do care. If I were in your shoes I would make the call and I wouldn't think twice about it. Make the call |
| Please let us know what the out come is. |
| Well, insofar, things have been looking a lot better. The kids have been playing the backyard only and mom was actually sitting out on the porch watching them when they were outside in front of the house the other day. I like knowing that no one is going run them over.
They have not come near my house and I can't tell you how much more relaxed it's been. It's amazing how stressful it becomes to be in your own home when someone is knocking at your door all the time or trying to get in. It's like nails on a chalkboard. The dogs are all quieter and more relaxed. The knocking was driving them nuts. Poor Bear is so sensitive, I thought he was going to drive himself insane. Bear likes things quiet and in order and so do I. James and I have been on edge so long with this kid situation that we didn't realize how bad it had really become for us until it stopped. |
| I am a teacher and have, unfortunately, made many of those calls in my life. I scanned through all the posts, and must admit I'm not sure if you said you had called already or not.
My advice: Report to CFS (or whatever your local one is) and keep reporting whenever things happen (assuming they start up again, and they will). Also, document the destructive things and start reporting those to the police. The reality of getting help with neglect cases is that CFS is not likely to do much right away, but, if you call repeatedly you create a paper trail and they WILL eventually do something. Also, the trail with the police will help you down the road. If they'll do this stuff at this young an age just imagine what life will be like when they hit their teens. I think your instincts are bang on here, and it really is in the best interest of the children for you to make that call. Also, if it becomes something that the whole neighbourhood is chatting about over the fences, I would suggest you strongly encourage others to call as well. When it starts coming from multiple sources the powers that be are more likely to pay attention. You really do help the children by making the calls. Good luck. |
| I couldn't help but have this post on my mind for days,since first reading it. I'm glad things are better for you and hopefully those kids.
Marianne |
| Well that's really good news.
As far as them knocking on your door, we have a boy that does the same thing to play w/the dogs and just "talk." Except he's an identical to Steve Urkel. I'm afraid if I tell him to go make some friends, he'll go off the deep end, so I just do something to make my boys cry so I can say I have to go. |
| Well, I've been sick for the last two days and guess what? It turns out the mother lets them play all over my porch, front yard and driveway while she thinks we aren't home. I went out and kicked them out of the driveway twice yesterday. |
| I hope you feel better. hmm I always worry about becoming the cranky old neighbor (my kids always say I am the crazy dog lady already). WHen I came home unexpectedly and found the neighbors kids playing in my back yard (twice) I took their toys (I am a bit%&) and told them they could have them when they came back with their parents (they never did and I retruned them to the mom myself). The idea of me changing my schedule and being home when I shouldn't be seemed to break their confidence though and they are pretty good about staying in their own yard now. |
| Oh, I would totally do that.
The bigger problem I had with them being in the driveway, other than the yelling, was that they were sticking their hands under the gate at the dogs. I don't even have to explain why that's a problem. The poor dogs had been inside all day and were out for a quick potty break. They were out under a minute when I caught the kids. Like I said before, I really resent having to take special precautions for someone's unwatched kids on my own property. You'd better believe that the house is going on the market at the first sign of upward momentum in the housing market. Of course, by that time, the kids will probably be moved out... |
| That's so weird that the mom will has been actively trying to keep the kids away when she thinks you're around but doesn't care when she thinks you're not. |
| Have you confronted the mother about knowing the kids are at your house during the day when they think you're not home? I would let her know in no uncertain terms that whether you are home or not, your property is off limits and if you catch them again, you will report her to child services. That should end the problem, and if it doesn't - make the call. |
| Oh my LIFE
When you are better... MAKE THAT CALL!!!! You are letting this family walk all over you
No wonder you are ill. |
Drezzie's Mom wrote: Have you confronted the mother about knowing the kids are at your house during the day when they think you're not home? I would let her know in no uncertain terms that whether you are home or not, your property is off limits and if you catch them again, you will report her to child services. That should end the problem, and if it doesn't - make the call.
I'm not talking to her again. It's ridiculous and obviously a waste of time. Any person with half of a brain would have understood that I didn't want them there at all. It's silly. I've been busy this week and behind from being sick and I need to compile some info before I call (CPS needs their address and some other personal info that I don't have yet). All of that aside, it's not an easy choice to make. I think it's very easy to say "You should call!" and, yes, I agree, I should, but realistically, I have to go home everyday and live in my neighborhood. It's not something I'm going to do without careful thought and planning. Even if I fear some sort of retaliation and I report that, it's not like CPS is going to station a guard at my house when I'm not home. I don't want my house messed up or anything happening to my dogs inside. Not to mention, my husband is NOT supportive of calling CPS and I preferred not to do it behind his back. I've been trying to hold out a few weeks until the kids were in school because a report at that point could blend in better. I also had some other non-conventional ideas to keep them off the property... |
| All valid points. Of course if oh say a stranger driving by was to call the police becasue they saw a 4 year old playing in the street without an adult around.............. |
| Can you set up some sort of movement alarm so when they get near an alarm goes off? (and shuts off automatically--we don't want YOU being called about b/c of noise issues!) |
| Call anonymously from a payphone. You do not have to give your name, and you do not have to admit you are a neighbour.
One of the things that CFS is notorious for in my neck of the woods is expecting others to do their legwork. You do not need a list of names, dates, etc. You can call and tell the house number and street, and indicate that you've seen X, Y, and Z a large number of times. You could even throw in, "You know I see those kids crawling all over one of the neighbour's houses all day when I know she's not home." I'm a teacher, and when I make those calls I'm frequently asked to dig up additional information and/or informally investigate and report back. My answer is a firm "NO." I am not qualified to do so, and it is not my job. CFS is responsible for all of that. Period. But they do get lazy/overworked and sometimes try to play on the sympathies of on the ball citizens. You can also write up all your documentation, without identifying information, and drop it in the mail. Also, for the safety of the kids, those of us who are aware of neglect/abuse do have a responsibility to report. Sometimes we really are those children's only hope. Good luck to you, and feel better soon. |
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