I need help with my neurotic girls
And, the girls seem to get worse as they get older. Keira (rescue-unknown history) has always been very timid and afraid of the outside world. She is totally cool with me. Too cool. In the morning, when Tony goes downstairs to walk the dogs and feed them (I stay upstairs to shower) Keira will not leave my side. She also will not eat unless I'm in the room. Lizzie (rescue, but with a good history...lived in an animal sancutary and lived liked a hippie girl) is starting the same nonsense as Keira. Won't leave my side! And now Liz is getting fearful of noises when we go walking...cars, hammering, all sorts of noise is starting to freak her out. Ok...AND when I get home they drive me crazy! All three dogs are crated. When I walk in I totally ignore them for a few a minutes (to cut down on excitement). Then it's always the same routine. First I let Pirate out of his crate, leash him up, and take him out. As soon as the happens, the girls start barking like they are being beaten! My neighbors must hate me! Next Pi comes in, and I uncrate Keira, leash her up and take out. Please remember Lizzie has NOT stopped barking for a second! I bring Keira in, take Liz out of her crate, leash her up, take her out, and Keira barks her fool head off. This is really driving me crazy. When I come home and Tony is there already, so the dogs are not crated, Keira almost attacks me. She makes this horrible screaching noise, jumps all over me, like she hasn't seen me for years! I could be gone for 5 hours or 5 minutes...doesn't matter. And,while this is going on Liz is barking like a maniac. This behavior is really...REALLY bad. My arms are scratched from Keira jumping on me. And my head hurts from the barking. Please Please Please! Give me some advice!!!!!! I'M DESPERATE!! Sorry this is long.... |
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| Hey Deb, thats what happens to my hubby when he gets home.
So what I have told him is DON"T look or touch any of them. When they sit and are calm they then get a greeting.' Its workinng...... but taking awhile to to this. Lily just sat and waited for daddy to pet het (good girl) 
bear was alittle jun py but was calmer ok when hesat he got greeted. 
and then therewas Snowy  jumping barking ect. she got nothing for 15 min. then settled down and was ok. 
now if I can just get them to do the same with guests..... |
| How does he get them NOT to jump immediately? I'm barely in the door and Keira is all over me. I try to get her to sit, but it's like she's intoxicated! I've even gently, held her down to calm her, but the minute I release her, she's jumping all over me. She doesn't stop until (don't think this is sick...cuz IT IS!) she gets to lick my mouth!!! UGH! |
| he walks away and turns his back. If that fails he goes into our bedroom for afew (closed door) and when he comes out they seem calmer. if not right back in the br and waits. yes a pain but aweek of this is better than the attack every night. |
| I agree with the turning away and ignoring them - I actually have to do that with my two crazies. I also let them out into the yard to run and be crazy all over each other instead of me. Then they come in and eat in their crates or spaces an they get no attention really until after our walk, if they act crazy, they go back into the kitchen area until they can be calm. |
| Watch your back though! Owen doesn't care if I turn my back on him because he'll launch himself at either side. Since ignoring Owen doesn't work really well, when we get home, I let Owen out of his crate and have everyone follow me to the kitchen for a treat. I make them all sit for their snacks and then they take off into their respective corners. After that they go outside and by the time everyone comes in, the excitement level is reasonable. I've found distracting him with something else to focus on to work best so far. He's the only dog I've ever had to be such a jumper! |
| My three also get very excited when I enter the house. Violet barks that high pitched sheepie bark and both of the Aussies go crazy. So what I do now is I tell them to let me sit down, which I do on a chair in the kitchen. I pet the Aussies while they do their Aussie dance. Once they are done Violet has usually stopped barking, thank God, and I pet her.
Each time I pick up my purse all three think they are going with me. They now know if I tell them I'm going to the store , they seem to understand and don't hound me about coming. Asia is very attached to me and so if we are going to the Van and my hubby is coming also, she keeps going back to me to see if I'm coming and won't get in the Van without me. Now on days that he is going and I'm not going, I will walk her out to the Van ant tell her I'll see her in a little while and she goes and is ok. Hopefully others will have some good advise for you. |
| As hard as it may be, don't let Keira follow you everywhere. Bathroom door stays closed, shower alone. I don't know how long you've had them, but it sounds like Keira considers you 'hers' and is guarding you. Lizzie could be reacting to the stress and different energy from Keira's behavior.
My latest rescue is doing the same thing to me, and it's changed the pack dynamic around here dramatically - The other three are definitely acting differently. It's been a slow go but it's getting better. Everyone has to get equal attention and you as pack leader have to set the boundaries. I'm not saying ignore her, far from it. Just don't allow her to 'own' you. |
| Our Bailee did the jumping thing too. Our Trainer simply told us to turn your back on him and ignore his antics. It worked almost immediately! No more jumping, no more pouncing! They will realize their actions are not getting ANY of your attention (which is what they want) and they calm down. Who said we can't outwit them? |
baileesdad wrote: Our Bailee did the jumping thing too. Our Trainer simply told us to turn your back on him and ignore his antics. It worked almost immediately! No more jumping, no more pouncing! They will realize their actions are not getting ANY of your attention (which is what they want) and they calm down. Who said we can't outwit them?
When I turn my back on Keira...she just keeps jumping on my backside. Doesn't matter. And....Liz keeps barking. |
| like I said and others. WALK AWAY AND IF NEED BE CLOSE A DOOR |
Yeah mine jump up on whatever side they can - I have to physicaly remove myself - or them. And recently Marley has started this horrific whining, high pitched barking when I come home - its the only time she does it and it is not pleasant. I really think with her its a result of not being as worn out as she used to be since she isn't doing as much training right now. I can't wait until we get back to our routine (and I assume my neighbors feel the same way  ) |
OES Mommy wrote: like I said and others. WALK AWAY AND IF NEED BE CLOSE A DOOR
Good luck walking away from an 80 pound dog chasing and launching itself at your back. I'd never make it to a door! |
ButtersStotch wrote: OES Mommy wrote: like I said and others. WALK AWAY AND IF NEED BE CLOSE A DOOR Good luck walking away from an 80 pound dog chasing and launching itself at your back. I'd never make it to a door! Mine learn at an early age to fear the ever present food stealing gate  Actually its pretty funny to see 120 lb Morgan and 160 pound Beowulf skulking around the gate - all I have to do is pick it up and they back off. Being a girl Marley will scoot around it if she thinks she can get a way with it - but she usually will respect its presence. |
| I always thought my Wendel was super neurotic, but after reading these posts, I guess he isn't has neurotic as I thought! I have found that if I come into the house and just speak real soft, almost a whisper, it tends to control their excitement a little easier.
If I come home and I speak normally or give an happy salutation, I end up with one huge dog trying to continuously go through my legs and another back on his rear legs to hug me (which always ends with painful claws and pressure on my arms leaving LLLLOOOONNNNGGGG bruises and cuts. Somedays, it seems as calm as I am coming through the door, there is no match for two excited OES. |
| I have to admit I could join this club. The really big frustration is that hubby has not problems when he comes home and he is almost always home first. It does not matter if crated or not because I get the same greeting. I can't blame the excitment of getting out of the crate/kennel.
I have been trying the ignore until they calm down I sometimes forget so that is on me. Part of my problem is that I am happy to see them too and I think they know it! I thought I had it worked out with Miley but adding Jasper to the mix in Oct seems to set us back. I think they compete for who gets pet first. Sometimes I wonder if it is not part of them working out pecking order in the pack. |
| Tiggy barks and Rastus (dalmo) runs around like a crazy.
We are lucky with the house lay out that I could put a baby gate in. When we get home Tiggy does the sheepie greeting dance with her front feet up on the gate. I wont come in until she sits, if she jumps on me I go out and shut the door in her face. Wait a minute then try again. I think the record was 10 shut doors in a row but it was worth it as she doesnt jump on me now. Just the wall beside the door. It is all streaky but hey better the wall than me.
I have a tugga rope hanging on the door handle and when she barks I shove it in her mouth. She cant bark round it. Its taken a quite few weeks but she's started running off and finding a toy or a shoe  for herself now.
DH was just cracking up yesterday because when he got home first she grabbed one of his runners and ran round wagging her but at him with the shoe dangling by the laces from her mouth. Oh and the obligatory "arent I clever, are you proud of me? I'm proud of me!" look on her face. I did read once where you should set it up so Tony holds one of them on lead as you come in and out the door and reward them bit by bit for the desired quiet behaviour. Might take some time with two of them. |
| I work tonight, so I've got a plan formulated. I'll have Tony leave my "evening cocktail" in the powder room, which is next to the garage entrance. As soon as I come in, and mania starts, I'm going in the powder room and DRINK until it settles down. Let's see if this works. Can some of you address the timidness issues too? The girls are both very timid, outside of our home. Thanks. Oh yea..and cheers! (I need a cocktail emoticon here, please) |
| The trainer we had last night said we needed to set a border up with blue tape. We had these little sacks we threw towards their feet on the floor (3ft FROM the blue line as we want them to slow down and STOP before they hit it), and they obviously don't want to cross the line after so many chains hit the floor. At the same time, we growl "BAHHH." Has to gurgle in your throat or it's not effective. Works wonders even if I had like 8 sacks (half the size of a pancake and make a sound of chains falling on the ground)!
Just actually takes work rather than the many years we've gone by just attempting to ignore it as trainers told us and being unsuccessful as we have to pull them down or their nails go into our skin. The trainer said acknowledging their jumps (mild), which turn into barks when you ignore them (moderate), to their squeals (severe) ...just lets them know they were able to get your attn and win over their pack leader. The only way to ignore such behavior is being able to STOP something that you're asking them ..........TO STOP. Otherwise, they know you won't/can't do anything about it and it continues. Amazing how it works so well!!!!!!!!!!! There was more to it like leading them behind the line again and saying Good puppy when they follow, so you can then go back to the door ...ready to correct them AGAIN when they cross the line. Ours as mentioned in another thread didn't do as well as MOST breeds they work with, BUT we saw progress and see how it will be 100% effective "IF" we stick to it for the 5 weeks. The same exact chain sound is mimicked when you snap/pull back a lead, so that essentially is supposed to aide in them learning to heal. |
debcram wrote: I work tonight, so I've got a plan formulated.
I'll have Tony leave my "evening cocktail" in the powder room, which is next to the garage entrance. As soon as I come in, and mania starts, I'm going in the powder room and DRINK until it settles down. Let's see if this works. Can some of you address the timidness issues too? The girls are both very timid, outside of our home. Thanks. Oh yea..and cheers! (I need a cocktail emoticon here, please) Yes we definitly need a cocktail emoticon or two - the Newfie list has a number of them
My girl is more timid than my boys - she just puts on a good front and will bark at things that scare her. I worked witha really well known trainer who specializes in agressive dogs (many of whom are fear agressive) and he did do wonders with Marley. If you want - pm me and I will go into his methods. |
| i don't feel so bad know alot of use have the jumpy problem when i turn my back duffy then jumps and humps on my back |
Joahaeyo wrote: The trainer we had last night said we needed to set a border up with blue tape. We had these little sacks we threw towards their feet on the floor (3ft FROM the blue line as we want them to slow down and STOP before they hit it),
Where do you get the sacks? |
Anonymous wrote: Joahaeyo wrote: The trainer we had last night said we needed to set a border up with blue tape. We had these little sacks we threw towards their feet on the floor (3ft FROM the blue line as we want them to slow down and STOP before they hit it), Where do you get the sacks? White Castle? |
Unfortunately, just through them.  Part of the reason they said they don't mind showing you their method for free the 1st time. I was told their products are always trying to be copied yet no one successfully does it. I'm not sure why they are so hard to copy though. Felt like a tiny 8-link chain inside a hacky-type sack (couldn't damage a floor even if you tried b/c they're soft but loud).
You really need a lot of them too, so you can keep throwing them towards their feet when training. He said never throw over arm either b/c I guess when you release, it forces you to lose your stiff posture, so instead the palm of your hand is facing your face and you release by extending your arm. Again, I guess if you find they opened a bark busters in your state, I bet they'd be at a dog show. |
| I've never had to deal with a timid dog so hopefully someone else will post advice.
But let us know how your cocktail half hour goes. |
Joahaeyo wrote: Again, I guess if you find they opened a bark busters in your state, I bet they'd be at a dog show.
I don't think you'll find them at a dog show since that type of training is aimed at the pet market. They might have a booth at something like a pet expo, though. The sacks sound like a softer looking variation of the throw chain certain trainers used years ago. I don't use them, but the basic startle principle behind them could be useful for breaking some of my fosters of some of their more neurotic behaviors. 
Deb - if the girls are shy/timid that's a sign they need more socialization (yes, you can socialize adults). At least that's Liz' issue; Keira may just be hardwired that way which is harder to modify, but it can be done. It'll take a pretty concerted effort on your and Tony's part, though. Especially since you need to work with them separately. And I'm sure they are feeding off of each other. More exericise, mental as well as physical too. Daphne's back so I can relate to the jumping up/loud and timid, but she is improving. I haul her with me everywhere I can. The more she gets out, the more she realizes she can handle herself. In her, too, I'm pretty sure it's hardwired (genetic) so she'll never be 100 %, but there's lots of room for improvement. Kristine |
| We had a small victory last night! When I got home from work and walked in the house the craziness started. I immediately went into the power room (no cocktail in there, btw!). I stayed probably less than a minute. I walked out and all three were huddled against the door. I said "Sit pretty for a cookie!" and all three sat (Keira reluctantly, but she sat). Each one got a cookie...and that was it! No jumping, no barking. I cannot express how pleasant it was!!!! I'm going to keep this routine up. Kristine, I'll start "schlepping" the girls with me on errands...one at a time. I know Liz will do much better than Keira, since I worry Keira will nervous bark and nip. Any suggestions how to handle that? |
debcram wrote: Kristine, I'll start "schlepping" the girls with me on errands...one at a time. I know Liz will do much better than Keira, since I worry Keira will nervous bark and nip.
Any suggestions how to handle that?[/color] What does she bark/nip at? Approaching people? Other dogs? Fire hydrants? All of the above? Each case has a separate approach to some extent.
And good work on the success last night!!! Now you just need to put a bar in the bathroom
If resident foster terrorist keeps improving I'll bring her to Sheepiefest. Some how I don't think she's going to be adopted any time soon Considering getting her a nice vest that reads: will work for food & tossed balls. Preferably balls. Preferably 24/7! She really needs a border collie type person to adopt her. She's too much dog for most OES folks.
Part of the reason many herding breeds become so quickly neurotic is that they were bred to do a job and then we give them none. Frustration breeds stress. Suggest you send Lizzie & Keira to bartending school. I'd be more than happy to help test their profiency when they graduate
Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: debcram wrote: Kristine, I'll start "schlepping" the girls with me on errands...one at a time. I know Liz will do much better than Keira, since I worry Keira will nervous bark and nip. Any suggestions how to handle that?[/color] What does she bark/nip at? Approaching people? Other dogs? Fire hydrants? All of the above? Each case has a separate approach to some extent.And good work on the success last night!!! Now you just need to put a bar in the bathroom If resident foster terrorist keeps improving I'll bring her to Sheepiefest. Some how I don't think she's going to be adopted any time soon Considering getting her a nice vest that reads: will work for food & tossed balls. Preferably balls. Preferably 24/7! She really needs a border collie type person to adopt her. She's too much dog for most OES folks.Part of the reason many herding breeds become so quickly neurotic is that they were bred to do a job and then we give them none. Frustration breeds stress. Suggest you send Lizzie & Keira to bartending school. I'd be more than happy to help test their profiency when they graduate Kristine Ok ok...I'm laughing my tush off. However, I think I need to correct you on one point...Lizzie is MUCH more the cocktail waitress type than a bartender type! |
debcram wrote: Ok ok...I'm laughing my tush off. However, I think I need to correct you on one point...Lizzie is MUCH more the cocktail waitress type than a bartender type!
Oh, that figures. I've known other floozies, eh,  I mean OES like her
One of them, oh the embarrassement - she's closely related to my dogs - would work the stock a bit as she was being herding instinct tested and then buzz the working border collies, bat her eyelashes at them a bit (they were NOT impressed), go back to working, buzz BCs, repeat. Bit of a party girl. Wasted on the true working class 
So, yeah, you're right. Not all OES are born for the same kind of work
Kristine |
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