Urine leaks
 this is the second femle sheepie we have had and the second one that has a problem with "leaking" while she sleeps. Both have had to go on estrogen after being spayed to control these accidents. Is this a common problem?  |
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| I don't know how common it is for Sheep dogs as compared to other breeds, but I understand it is a common by product of early spaying. |
| At what age did you have your girls spayed? This is a common side effect of spaying ar an early age. |
Both my girls were done at around the five month mark. Was this too early? The only good part if there is any, is that it is so weak and very little amonia in it  |
| Our Wheaten has this problem and she wasn't spayed until after her first heat |
Anonymous wrote: Both my girls were done at around the five month mark. Was this too early? The only good part if there is any, is that it is so weak and very little amonia in it
Everyone has their own opinion on this subject. I myself prefer to spay after the 18 month mark. My vet suggested this to me years & years ago. He said it gave the girls plenty of time to develop all their female characteristics & studies have shown that it gives the growth plates time to settle & complete forming as well has hormones that help lower the instances of some forms of cancer later on. As a breeder, I generally don't spay until the girls are a bit older & we are done breeding them. If we have girls that are sold as companions or we decide to not use in breeding for 1 reason or another, then we usually suggest no earlier than 12 months of age. |
| I have a female with this issue, and she is the opposite as far as spaying...she has had several litters (early and back to back fro
what we have pieced together) and wasn't spayed until after five years old. Estrogen is helping but not totally. |
| Definitely I would say 5 months is too early, and yes it is a common problem in OES.
In my contract it states they must be spayed between 9-12 months, preferably later but no earlier than 9 months. |
| All the data on OES girls is that spaying too young you run the risk of Spay incontinence earlier in life.
Mine I ask them to spay the girls after the first heat or around 12 months or if I can rely on them & have full confidence in them with a bitch in heat, then around 18 months when the growth plates are just about finished. 
5 months is way to early in this breed. |
lisaoes wrote: 5 months is way to early in this breed.
Lisa, people often can't help it. The strictly pet vets in this country at least often refuse to tell people the full risk/benefit story, assuming all pet owners are too irresponsible and/or stupid to be allowed to own an intact animal for any amount of time regardless of the client's history as a responsible and sensible owner. Many of them will put serious pressure on puppy owners to have their dogs desexed at these ridiculously young ages despite the research. I don't think their motivation is to drum up more future business, but given that the younger the dog is "fixed", the greater the probability of health problems, it works out nicely for them 
Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: lisaoes wrote: 5 months is way to early in this breed. Lisa, people often can't help it. The strictly pet vets in this country at least often refuse to tell people the full risk/benefit story, assuming all pet owners are too irresponsible and/or stupid to be allowed to own an intact animal for any amount of time regardless of the client's history as a responsible and sensible owner. Many of them will put serious pressure on puppy owners to have their dogs desexed at these ridiculously young ages despite the research. I don't think their motivation is to drum up more future business, but given that the younger the dog is "fixed", the greater the probability of health problems, it works out nicely for them Kristine Playing devils advocate here - (who me?) I was at the vet's a few weeks ago (so what's new I know) and he was having a terrible day. Apparently some BYB brought in problem puppies, or he was dealing with the puppies they had sold I never did get the whole story. Not one to be quiet - him not me - he was walking around the place yelling about all dogs and cats needing to be S/N at birth - now I know he didn't mean it - he used to breed, he has breeder clients and we have talked about it - but I guess the point of my totally incoherent run on sentence is, sometimes they just get jaded. That's why it is up to to pet owners to learn everything they can and not rely on the vet as the authority. Like all of health care, it's become an educated consumers market place. |
Although it sounds like spay-incontinence is the most likely reason for your dogs problem, we have also had trouble with "leaks" in with our girl Abby, who is a retired show dog and wasn't spayed until 5 years of age. I dont know if this would help in your case, but we've had good results from exercises to strengthen her abdominal muscles.  |
Quote: I dont know if this would help in your case, but we've had good results from exercises to strengthen her abdominal muscles. I was wondering if exercise might help... that and keeping them at a good weight. Quote: we have also had trouble with "leaks" in with our girl Abby, who is a retired show dog and wasn't spayed until 5 years of age
I don't have any experience with this condition though we had spayed all 7 girls at around 6 months of age. I do wonder if some dogs may simply be more prone to the condition... maybe an anatomical anomaly... whether the surgeon's technique has something to do with it. Does it tend to run in lines from mother to daughters or does that have nothing to do with it? |
6Girls wrote: Quote: I dont know if this would help in your case, but we've had good results from exercises to strengthen her abdominal muscles. I was wondering if exercise might help... that and keeping them at a good weight. [...] whether the surgeon's technique has something to do with it. Does it tend to run in lines from mother to daughters or does that have nothing to do with it? Exercise will help and also keeping them at a good healthy weight, keeping the muscles toned has to help them in the longer term. Yes some vet surgeons do muck up the spays and the girls have leaks straight after spaying is done or develope it within 12 months or so after spaying. No evidence of it running in lines from mother to daughters. Just think has a lot to do when an OES bitch is done, who does it, how good they do it and wether there bodies are allowed to be more developed before being spayed and not as a baby with a lot of growth & developement still happening & forming. |
Ive often wondered if my girls "leakage" problem could stem from a Cesarean delivery she underwent before we adopted her  ...? It was apparently done as an emergency procedure, and most of the puppies were stillborn
Its also very noticeably worse if she is stressed...perhaps because she tends to "hold it" more then. |
Mad Dog wrote: Many of them will put serious pressure on puppy owners to have their dogs desexed at these ridiculously young ages despite the research.
Kristine Yes I know it happens here too, had plenty of arguments with vets on this issue especially with the girls  Just wish vets were more forthcoming on the pros and cons of de-sexing especially larger breeds under 6 months. They just seem to say more higher risk of Mammery tumours later in life, yeah OK lessens the risk but not 100% guarantee they will or will not develope it. So scare tatics to companion/pet owners comes into the equation. They should also mention higher risk of spay incontinence doing so young and also the other health issues there at risk of from spaying at such a young age. |
ravenmoonart wrote: Ive often wondered if my girls "leakage" problem could stem from a Cesarean delivery she underwent before we adopted her
...? It was apparently done as an emergency procedure, and most of the puppies were stillborn Its also very noticeably worse if she is stressed...perhaps because she tends to "hold it" more then. My Mum's dalmo developed urinary incontinence shortly after an emergency caesar and although the vet wouldnt agree Mum always suspected that it contributed. Even though she wasnt blaming the vet as it was an emergency and one puppy was still born he still kept saying that there was no evidence that they are connected. This was many years ago though. The pelvic floor, urinary tract and bladder muscles are all effect by stress, so being stressed could definitely have an effect on the leaking. In cats with urinary tract disease vets prescribe Endep to relax the cat and help relax the urinary tract muscles. My friends cat is on endep for that reason. She calls Endep kitty prosac, guess it kind of is.  |
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