show dogs die in HOT van.....(not oes)
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument |
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| Unbelievable story isn't it? How can a car be hot enough at 1 am to do that? the idea of the a hot car attracting sun and overheating sort of requires sun. |
kerry wrote: Unbelievable story isn't it? How can a car be hot enough at 1 am to do that? the idea of the a hot car attracting sun and overheating sort of requires sun.
NOT when you have Show Akitas with all that heavy dense fur..AND...7 of them in a closed space with a temp of 80 at 1AM...not to mention the humidity.... On Sheepiepalooza Saturday...((and you know how hot we all were)) the temp was only 78...BUT the humidity was 83!!! Humidity is the KEY!!!!! |
sheepieshake wrote: kerry wrote: Unbelievable story isn't it? How can a car be hot enough at 1 am to do that? the idea of the a hot car attracting sun and overheating sort of requires sun. NOT when you have Show Akitas with all that heavy dense fur..AND...7 of them in a closed space with a temp of 80 at 1AM...not to mention the humidity.... On Sheepiepalooza Saturday...((and you know how hot we all were)) the temp was only 78...BUT the humidity was 83!!! Humidity is the KEY!!!!! I think you are right about the humidity, the car was open according to her story. I suspect more will come out. I just don't get why she left them in the car. |
| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Stupidity...........or selfishness........or BOTH!!!! IMHO........ |
| Note to self: never hire Mary Wild as a handler... |
ButtersStotch wrote: Note to self: never hire Mary Wild as a handler...
I think it's safe to say her handling days are over. Here's your note to self: never let anyone else handle your dog. Period. That's the only way you can maintain complete control over what happens to your dog. I won't even leave mine with anyone, perhaps short of my vet. And that includes with friends who are some of the most competent and capable dog people you could ever ask for. Yes, I'm that paranoid. With stupidity or carelessness or not, my worst nightmare come true. <shudder> Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: ButtersStotch wrote: Note to self: never hire Mary Wild as a handler... I think it's safe to say her handling days are over. Here's your note to self: never let anyone else handle your dog. Period. That's the only way you can maintain complete control over what happens to your dog. I won't even leave mine with anyone, perhaps short of my vet. And that includes with friends who are some of the most competent and capable dog people you could ever ask for. Yes, I'm that paranoid. With stupidity or carelessness or not, my worst nightmare come true. <shudder> Kristine Dan has me listen to the dogs breath into the phone if I am away and he has them - I never ask he just feels the need to prove they are still okay - I have no idea why   |
kerry wrote: Dan has me listen to the dogs breath into the phone if I am away and he has them - I never ask he just feels the need to prove they are still okay - I have no idea why
I understand. I swear to whatever higher power that I am not a control freak in most aspects of my life, and lord knows I'm as human as the next person, so what makes me think I can't trust people who are at least as competent as I am, if not more so? Who knows?
There's probably a 12 step program for this affliction. But of course any time something happens to a dog not in the owner's care, like this situation or a neighbor or family member caring for a pet, an incident at a groomer's, a boarding kennel, daycare, whatever, it just feeds into my paranoia. 
Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: Here's your note to self: never let anyone else handle your dog. Period. That's the only way you can maintain complete control over what happens to your dog.
I won't even leave mine with anyone, perhaps short of my vet. And that includes with friends who are some of the most competent and capable dog people you could ever ask for. Yes, I'm that paranoid. With stupidity or carelessness or not, my worst nightmare come true. <shudder> Kristine I totally agree Kristine. People mean well, but I just couldn't handle it if something happened to my dogs because of a mistake. I am responsible for their health and well being until the day they pass and I take that very seriously. If it makes me a control freak - then I wear the title proudly. |
| I just heard this story on the weather channel (yes, we are weather freaks) and they showed some limited footage.
The story they said: They normally are in kennels in the garage, but the garage was too hot and she moved them into the van with windows down and fans on them. One dog is still alive and under vet care. Sadly, this very thing happened to my friend Donna and her Toy Fox Terrier, Abbott 2 years ago. He was a nationally ranked TFT and she has to work some weekends for her job. She placed him with a handler to show more and keep his rankings, plus, this little guy LOVED to show! A month later, the handler's generator failed in the van on a hot day and ALL the dogs died. She was absolutely devastated, as he was her personal favorite dog, not even counting his show success. She really beat herself up over this. Several owners sued, but Donna did not. They were genuinely upset that these dogs died and felt horrid. Can you imagine having to call all the owners and tell them what had happened?? How do you ever get over that guilt?  |
| What possible reasoning could she use that a car would be cooler than a garage? Why not kennel them in her home? Why not leave the garage door open instead of the car door?
And what kind of car does she drive that she can safely fit 7 large breed dogs in kennels! |
Lil Walty wrote: What possible reasoning could she use that a car would be cooler than a garage? Why not kennel them in her home? Why not leave the garage door open instead of the car door?
And what kind of car does she drive that she can safely fit 7 large breed dogs in kennels! If you read the article, it mentions van, not car. Otherwise I guess you're going to have to ask her yourself, because we have no way of knowing why she did what she did, and it's pretty pointless to speculate. Kristine |
| She has a Dodge Sprinter van.
It probably would have been cooler in the van if it were only 1 dog, not 8. And I can understand the hot garage thing. My garage gets very hot & humid in there. I don't understand why she just wouldn't have brought them into her house. |
| I agree with Kristine about leaving the dogs with people....
Last week I had to go on a trip and couldn't take the girls. I was beside myself with worry about them. My son/girlfriend where going to stay at the house and take care of them. I had a 5 day Itinerary typed up so they knew exactly day to day what to do.  My hubby told them "You know how your Mom feels about her dogs, so don't let anything happen to them while we are gone."
Everything went well and the dogs where in good shape when we got home. They where brushed each day and where happy to see us. Now here is where my paranoyia comes from: 1. I used to always take Violet to a groomer. When I dropped her off, I would always remind them that she has HD. The last time I took her she came limping out...we've not been back sence. I groom her myself, not the best, but at least she is not limping. 2. A few years ago, my bug man left the front gate open after spraying. Thank God Violet didn't know it was open...she does have wonderluss in her genes. 3. We have a lawnservice that comes here once a week. the mowing/weed wacking/more mowing is done in different shifts, so not at the same time. So on Wednesdays, I spend most of the day, keeping an eye on who is in the yard or near the yard so I can let the dogs in and out. The lawnservice came early last week, so before we left for the trip. Kristinea, kept an eye out all day for them on Wednesday. They have been know to come back when you think they are done. So no return on Wed...which was good..because guess what happened THIS Wednesday...THEY LEFT THE FRONT GATE OPEN!!!!!! Thank God it was hot out and all the dogs stayed in the house. I happen to catch sight of the gate and almost died. The front gate is where Violet's Poo Corner is...the dog with Wonderluss. Hsd it happened the week before, the kids might not have noticed until it was too late. I'm always checking and always counting dog heads. lol 3. I've read on here so many times of dogs getting injured in kennels, I just can't go there. The story is very sad regarding the dogs..... |
I hate the idea of leaving my dogs in anyone else's care too  Unfortunately, my husband and I have "dueling" paranoias... I'm scared to leave them, but he is always worried about something happening to them because of an unfamiliar environment if we take them with us! 
This whole heat thing (80 degrees plus at night???  ) just boggles my mind...how do you folks in the hot & humid climes cope with your dogs in that kind of weather? especially if you have to travel? |
Mad Dog wrote: If you read the article, it mentions van, not car. Otherwise I guess you're going to have to ask her yourself, because we have no way of knowing why she did what she did, and it's pretty pointless to speculate. Kristine I'm really just trying to understand her decision. If there is any logic to what she did I would lend a little more sympathy for the guilt she must be feeling right now. I wonder if the owners and the handler had an agreement that the dogs would not come inside? |
Quote: This whole heat thing (80 degrees plus at night??? ) just boggles my mind...how do you folks in the hot & humid climes cope with your dogs in that kind of weather? especially if you have to travel ?
No one has mentioned that this women could have, should have TAKEN THE DOGS INTO HER AIR CONDITIONED HOME....It would have been alot less trouble than moving all the crates,,probably more trouble than setting up the fans in the van. I do understand accidents....but this was not an accident as much as her not thinking this through, probably being exhausted from hauling 7 dogs and showing most of them,,,then driving back. I am sure she does feels terrible....AND...being ONLY 24, it is hard for me to believe that experienced show owners would allow her to take that many dogs, with no other help. again...just my opinion....... |
Mad Dog wrote: ButtersStotch wrote: Note to self: never hire Mary Wild as a handler... I think it's safe to say her handling days are over. Here's your note to self: never let anyone else handle your dog. Period. That's the only way you can maintain complete control over what happens to your dog. I won't even leave mine with anyone, perhaps short of my vet. And that includes with friends who are some of the most competent and capable dog people you could ever ask for. Yes, I'm that paranoid. With stupidity or carelessness or not, my worst nightmare come true. <shudder> Kristine Lol. I don't think someone else handling him would even be an option anyway. That fat baby only wants to be with me. |
sheepieshake wrote: Quote: This whole heat thing (80 degrees plus at night??? ) just boggles my mind...how do you folks in the hot & humid climes cope with your dogs in that kind of weather? especially if you have to travel ?No one has mentioned that this women could have, should have TAKEN THE DOGS INTO HER AIR CONDITIONED HOME.... Short of the obvious( air conditioning), I guess I meant!  Although, I tend to forget that in other parts of the country, people's homes commonly have that! In this woman's case, yeah...that would have made much more sense 
This summer, my pups and I will be spending time in an area that is hotter than what we are normally used to (not that that's saying much ), and Im a bit nervous... so...do you limit time spent outside? Discourage activity? Spritz them down w/ water? We will basically be living in a big tent, so, no AC!  |
| It is HOT here so, we are very limited on activity!
Some of our dogs willl swim so, keeping them wet is the only way we can get them out much
It takes no time for a body temp to spike in the heat(guess that is obvious) Marty and I never travel together for the fact of me being so paranoid with leaving them! A couple I pet sit for has offered many times to return the favor and I am sure they would be fine BUT....... It breaks my heart to think of how these poor dogs suffered |
ravenmoonart wrote: This summer, my pups and I will be spending time in an area that is hotter than what we are normally used to (not that that's saying much
), and Im a bit nervous... so...do you limit time spent outside? Discourage activity? Spritz them down w/ water? We will basically be living in a big tent, so, no AC! I'd never had central A/C before I moved to WI. Now I'm a bit spoiled and I've been running it the last two days because we've had heat advisories. Otherwise I try not to run it. I don't want my dogs living in A/C because they are "working" dogs (well - we DO stuff, like herding and agility and hiking) and it's better for the dog to condition them to the heat. Better for me to. And the body does adjust.
A few things to keep in mind. Exercise early in the morning/late in the evening. Let them set the pace. Make sure they have shade and maximize airflow. There are various theories on misting them. With an OES, shaving the belly and running cool water on their belly and down the insides of their rear legs (up towards the belly) seems to have the greatest net effect. Soaking or even misting the back of a hairy OES especially who is going to be in the sun even for a short time, not so good. The water evaporates as the sun hits the dog and adds to the humidity around them. Who needs that? Good airflow is better in that case. And shade, shade, shade. Some dogs like cooling mats. Actually, I think most OES like cooling mats. Fans are much appreciated (air flow) and for additional cooling when there's no A/C but there is electricity, you can buy a bag of ice and spread it out (maybe on a tray?) in front of a nice strong fan and that will usually make the air flow several degrees cooler. You can also take some empty soda or milk bottles (gallon works well), fill it 2/3 full of water and freeze it, and put it where the dogs tend to snooze. Belle likes to rest her head on one on hot days at trials and such. Sort of a cold water bottle if you will
OK, so now explain why you'll be living in a big tent...?   Does it have electricity? 
Kristine |
ravenmoonart wrote: sheepieshake wrote: Quote: This whole heat thing (80 degrees plus at night??? ) just boggles my mind...how do you folks in the hot & humid climes cope with your dogs in that kind of weather? especially if you have to travel ?No one has mentioned that this women could have, should have TAKEN THE DOGS INTO HER AIR CONDITIONED HOME.... Short of the obvious( air conditioning), I guess I meant! Although, I tend to forget that in other parts of the country, people's homes commonly have that! In this woman's case, yeah...that would have made much more sense This summer, my pups and I will be spending time in an area that is hotter than what we are normally used to (not that that's saying much ), and Im a bit nervous... so...do you limit time spent outside? Discourage activity? Spritz them down w/ water? We will basically be living in a big tent, so, no AC! Spritzing with water will not help with heat stroke. keeping their chest cool or applying running water over the chest area will keep them cooler and help them bring down the body temperature. with our guys spritzing just increases humidity. WIth accomodation and building up to it - Marley can run agility when it is 90 out. Morgan was on the a/c vent this morning when it was not yet 70 out - depends to a large degree on the dog. |
Mad Dog wrote: Some dogs like cooling mats. Actually, I think most OES like cooling mats. Fans are much appreciated (air flow) and for additional cooling when there's no A/C but there is electricity, you can buy a bag of ice and spread it out (maybe on a tray?) in front of a nice strong fan and that will usually make the air flow several degrees cooler. You can also take some empty soda or milk bottles (gallon works well), fill it 2/3 full of water and freeze it, and put it where the dogs tend to snooze. Belle likes to rest her head on one on hot days at trials and such. Sort of a cold water bottle if you will
OK, so now explain why you'll be living in a big tent...? Does it have electricity? Kristine Ive been wondering about the cooling mat thing...heck Imight want to lie down on one if it gets hot enough on this trip! We will have (limited) electricity, but very little ability to freeze anything. We are going up the Fairbanks (where summer temps can top 100F...and this year look like they are heading that way ) for a two week long art/craft fair. We will have our 5th wheel trailer, but will be spending about 15 hours a day in my booth...which is a 20'x20' tent. We have done this show for years, but the difference this year, is that Ill be alone...my husband has to be in Anchorage for work, so I wont have him to watch the dogs for me during the show. Otherwise, the AC in the 5th wheel would be a solution. Due to show rules, you can have electricity to your trailer or your booth, but not both at the same time. With Scott there, we shame, deep shame used to just go ahead and break that rule so the dogs had AC...but with no one there to watch, Im not about to risk getting caught! ....so....the pups get to share the booth with me all day, in a sheltered "back room". I can have fans, and I can order ice delivered each morning (like the food booths do) so the ice in front of a fan will work!
Thanks for the ideas!  |
| If they have any length of coat, don't mist their bodies.(good to wet under the belly/groin area though) The water sticks the hair together, creating an outer shield (think like what is happening when you try to wet them down to bathe them). This makes a solid barrier - not letting cooling breezes into the body, nor letting body heat escape. This can kill your dog! This applies to all breeds with a long or dense coat. |
| We've been in the lower 80s/upper 70s at night, with highs over 100 - and expected to continue.
The annual vet appt is on the 10th at 9AM. Taking the 3 in at once overwhelms the AC in the exam room if we go any later. Just taking them anywhere in the afternoon puts a stress on my car's AC. I'm sorry for the owners and the dogs. |
| Very sad story... |
| How tragic!
The humidity has been horrible already this summer and it is only June! My boys really love the cooling mats in this weather. They have been worth it although they are heavy and I feel need to be cleaned often--they seem to get a little grungy. My boys get really sad because I can't take them with me on my errands in this heat--not even at night because the humidity has been so bad-- |
Mad Dog wrote: kerry wrote: Dan has me listen to the dogs breath into the phone if I am away and he has them - I never ask he just feels the need to prove they are still okay - I have no idea why I understand. I swear to whatever higher power that I am not a control freak in most aspects of my life, and lord knows I'm as human as the next person, so what makes me think I can't trust people who are at least as competent as I am, if not more so? Who knows? There's probably a 12 step program for this affliction. But of course any time something happens to a dog not in the owner's care, like this situation or a neighbor or family member caring for a pet, an incident at a groomer's, a boarding kennel, daycare, whatever, it just feeds into my paranoia. Kristine I'm the opposite to control freak with most things but NOT the dogs. I dont even go on holidays that often partly because I'm always worrying about the dogs. I offended my sister years ago when she asked to take our dogs to the beach for a run and I said "no". Its not necessarily that I dont trust others its just that I know accidents happen and I dont want to have to deal with the blame and recriminations. I'd rather beat myself up and never forgive myself than someone else. And I would hate to have all the if onlys and what ifs after something bad happened. |
| How sad |
| I always worry about my neighbors dogs. They leave them in the garage every day, most of the day with only a 2" opening. The other day was 105 w/o heat index .........w/o the high humidity. This year it doesn't seem to be every day, but I guess they think their backyard is hotter than their garage (b/c I can't figure out why they don't stay there during the day ...just at night). I called animal control once we moved here, but they didn't seem to care, but it's absolutely horrible in our own garage after only a minute, so we always feel bad for them. |
| This is really an eye opening for hot weather and animals inside cars, trucks,vans. I can not believe that this would be allowed by a handler from the AKC? Is there some sort of qualifications that a handler must meet in order to show dogs? Do they just load up a bunch of show dogs in a van and the owners of these dogs trust them to care for them?
Wags |
| Its' very sad, but this is one story like this almost every year. One of the absolute TOP handlers a couple of years ago had this happen as well, when the airconditioner on the van went out that night. Since that time he always, no matter what time of year or weather now has an assistant sleeping in the van with all of his string of dogs.
It is very sad. I do feel sorry for the young woman however it happend. Lack of poor judgement, ie having driven for 14 hours or so, just worn out after a 3,4 or 5 day show......... shuffleing dogs in and dogs out etc. She was probably worn out and hot too. And not thinking. But it is no excuse. A dog is a living creatre put into our hands to take care of by their owners to show. It is up to the handler or assistant , and assumed, that they will be the ones to watch over their charge 100%. All of the dogs except for one died. He is stil at the Vets office a Siberian Husky. This could happen to any of us at any time if we re not careful. We leave the dog in the car for 'JUST THOSE ## minutes " to run in to pick up 'tommatoes or potatoes or a prescription" at the local stor. It's hot out (yes we knew it was hot but Barney was begging so much and he hreally loves to go how could we resist those big brown eyes?!", so you go ahead and take "Barney", and 5 minutes trn into 20,then into 40 and ousite the temp in the car is up to 180 degrees........ such a sad waste all of the way around. This poor handler will never forgive herself, she may have charnges agagins herself. The city may have charges even., She is having to make calls to all of the owners of all of the dogs that were there. She had to get to th one alive to a vet to try to keep alive. This poor girl grew up with dogs, and they have always been her life, if you go to her website. I'm not defending her one way or another, however just to say what a waste.......... all the way aroun. I hope she can sincerely put her life back together t\in timme. |
ravenmoonart wrote: Mad Dog wrote: Some dogs like cooling mats. Actually, I think most OES like cooling mats. Fans are much appreciated (air flow) and for additional cooling when there's no A/C but there is electricity, you can buy a bag of ice and spread it out (maybe on a tray?) in front of a nice strong fan and that will usually make the air flow several degrees cooler. You can also take some empty soda or milk bottles (gallon works well), fill it 2/3 full of water and freeze it, and put it where the dogs tend to snooze. Belle likes to rest her head on one on hot days at trials and such. Sort of a cold water bottle if you will OK, so now explain why you'll be living in a big tent...? Does it have electricity? Kristine Ive been wondering about the cooling mat thing...heck Imight want to lie down on one if it gets hot enough on this trip! We will have (limited) electricity, but very little ability to freeze anything. We are going up the Fairbanks (where summer temps can top 100F...and this year look like they are heading that way ) for a two week long art/craft fair. We will have our 5th wheel trailer, but will be spending about 15 hours a day in my booth...which is a 20'x20' tent. We have done this show for years, but the difference this year, is that Ill be alone...my husband has to be in Anchorage for work, so I wont have him to watch the dogs for me during the show. Otherwise, the AC in the 5th wheel would be a solution. Due to show rules, you can have electricity to your trailer or your booth, but not both at the same time. With Scott there, we shame, deep shame used to just go ahead and break that rule so the dogs had AC...but with no one there to watch, Im not about to risk getting caught! ....so....the pups get to share the booth with me all day, in a sheltered "back room". I can have fans, and I can order ice delivered each morning (like the food booths do) so the ice in front of a fan will work! Thanks for the ideas! I was thinking about you dealing with the 100F weather for the pups. Remember the bare ground and cement get really hot even the sand so if you can keep them on grass some how or check out the temp of the ground before they walk or lay on it. I know the sand gets really hot down here in Florida. If the dogs have a shade tree to lay under and a lot of water, the breeze will help and more then likely they will take a siesta during the day. As for you, tank top, shorts and flip flops should help you out. lol Have a good time and sell, sell, sell! |
| Since I am still new to all of this dog show stuff and learning, I assume that these handlers as you call them have insurance on the dogs and for this type of situation? And if they do, how much is a dog like these worth? I can not imagine the phone calls to the owners telling them that the dog is dead. Why didn't this young gal just plug in a fan and put it in the van with the dogs? I have a fan for Will, I turn it on and he lays down in front of it. Up here in Idaho it gets real hot. It is a high desert type of climate. Dry and hot! I take Will with me and he will stay in the truck with the windows down and I find shade to park under on will take him out of the truck and he goes with me to most places. Times when he can't go, he is put into the house and he has his personal fan to cool him until I get home.
I am sure this young gal who is a handler feels terrible. Her career is probably over in a flash now. Ali, you mentioned that you knew of another handler who lost dogs? Does this happen alot? Is this handler still showing dogs and he/she have people who trust him/her and will still use them as a handler with their dogs knowing this has happened to them? Ali, would you who has these fine show OES bloodlines trust your dogs with them knowing that they have lost dogs. Would you have them show your dog if you were to use a handler? Would anyone use such a handler knowing this has happened to them with dogs? Again, I am not judging. I would like to know why a person would use a handler and trust their dogs with them knowing they have lost dogs in a situation that could have been different is they would have thought more about the dogs and not about themselves? A simple fan in the van or 15 mins of taking those dogs out of the van and into the kennels could have saved alot of heartache to those owners. That is not alot of sleep lost to save a dogs life to me. Those dogs didn't have a chance or say in those crates I would have to say? Do these handlers not have or are required to have generators or airconditioners in them? I have an old trailer and I have an airconditioner and generator for both me and Will when we go camping. I would imagine that most good handlers would have the same with the trucks they drive would they not? I am sorry, but I just don't think a dogs life is worth all of this showing idea and having them die being a show dog in someone elses hands. Am I wrong with this thought? Is a cooling pad enough to keep them form overheating? How many people on this forum uses a handler? What do you ask or require of them to show dogs at shows? Are there any requirements a handler must have to be called a professional or can anyone be a handler? Wags and Will cooling off by the fan. It's too hot to even fish. |
| Waggin tails: According to the article linked in the original post, there were fans in the van...apparently that was not enough |
| Walter, there is some kind of professional organization for handlers, perhaps more than one. I've never used a handler so have no idea what any of that entails. In fact, almost no OES people locally use a handler. Others I've spoken to elsewhere in the country that do frequently seem to simply bring the dog to the handler ringside and then the handler takes them into the ring for them and hands the dog back afterwards. This is probably because there is so much grooming involved with OES so there are relatively few handlers who want to live with them and be responsible for their grooming.
We have a handful of breeders who are essentially professional handlers by virtue of how much they travel/show, though most predominantly or exclusively handle their own dogs. Frankly, this is a breed where owners/breeders have the advantage over paying for a "face" to show the dog since they generally do a better job of presenting the dog. Exception being if the owner is mobility challenged. There are a handful of dogs in the US and Canada being campaigned professionally, but they are the exception, not the rule, so most of us know very little about the concept. That said, unfortunately dogs die of overheating in vehicles throughout the country who are not show or working dogs. A number of pets succumb to heat when people leave them in vehicles, though they tend not to get the same press - that's why your local news stations probably have warnings to protect your pets (and kids, many young children die the same way) when the temperature rises. Most people are much more aware of the dangers these days, Most shows state in their premiums that if a dog is left in a vehicle on an even moderately warm day the show committee has the right to, and will, break a window to get any dog they feel is even remotely in danger out of the vehicle. A number of K-9 officers have died over the years in vehicles when the A/C failed. These days I would hope most have a heat sensor installed in such vehicles which will alert to rising temps (i.e. malfunctionuing A/C) so one can get the dogs out of there ASAP. Because of how they are designed and their poor cooling system, It doesn't take much for a dog to overheat. some times more easily than you'd think. In 2003 a rescue transport volunteer had 69 dogs crammed in 12 crates in an overheated vehicle. 11 died. The danger isn't limited to show dogs by any stretch. We all need to be careful. As for insurance, I've never heard of it in dogs, dogs who are being shown included. I'm sure somewhere someone has insured a dog, but for 99% of participants this is a hobby and their dogs are pets first and you can't put a value on that anyway. The estimates of dogs allegedly being worth XXX amount of dollars always seems to come from outsiders who apparently presume that is a consideration, and that dogs are somehow an "investment". The bottom line is that to their owners those dogs are irreplacable and most cannot be bought for any amount of money anyway. Kristine |
| AKC does have a registered handler program. The handlers in their program are supposed to abide by a code of ethics.
I cannot find Mary Wild listed as an AKC registered handler unless she's listed under another state. Her kennel is located in MO. Not sure of the conditions of the handler/owner relationship with Mary Wild, but as in any other situation, know what you are getting yourself or dog into, have a contract, etc. As in most businesses, one can insure it for any type of scenarios. Hopefully Mary had herself covered, or she may find herself in a lot of financial trouble if she's sued. Personally, we have trusted the care of our terrier with a well known handler. Never once had I worried about his care, as he has a great reputation among dog owners and show peers. I have seen how his set up is on the road, at dog shows and back at his kennel. I always felt comfortable leaving our dog with him. He is also an AKC registered handler. Unfortunately, accidents or careless mistakes do happen. Very sad for the dogs, I personally feel that there is more to this story than what has been reported... |
| Thank you for your input on this subject. We have field dog trainers who are somewhat like this as you call handlers.
I did attend a dog show several years back in Boise just because it was at the fairgrounds and it was over the weekend. I drove by and saw dog show and thought what might that be like. Since I like dogs, I stopped and went in. I really didn't understand alot about them and was trying to learn but it seemed somewhat confussing with all the dogs going into different classes and coming back out and going back in? I really didn't follow it to much except alot of pretty dogs. But as I walked around the fair grounds during the day, I saw alot of fancy motorhomes and big rigs with a bunch of different set- ups in them. Dogs in wire pens and all in a row with dogs in them to go potty as I recall. It almost looked like a circus set-up except with no rides. There was an sheepdog who was there being shown at these shows. A young man was showing him and they made it into the finals. I think he may have won the top prize that day? That was the first time I saw an OES until I got Will in real life. I didn't know this young gal had fans in the van. But some of those rigs were very nice and had airconditioning for the dogs. That is why I was asking about the requirements for this to be able to be a handler? I guess the van would have just the regular engine air for them? So what you are saying is most owners of OES show their own dogs and they groom them, travel with them and pretty much do everything at the shows with them and don't use handlers. That is good to know as I see pictures of these show dogs and they look like that coat would be alot of trouble in the summer and in the heat. This is good to know that the OES world is that controlled and interested in their own dogs not to use bad handlers. I am happy for this. I am sure there are alot of good handlers out there, what do you look for in a good handler? The kennel, reputation, the history of the handlers back ground or his wins? What? Wags |
| WAGS,
I will reply to your post as an ex-handler and who has a son and daughter-n-law who are current AKC All-Breed registered handlers. First of all.......The OES that you mentioned in you post about a dog show in Boise, Idaho was my dog Ch. Bugaboo's Big Resolution. His call name is "SMOKIN". My son Colton was his handler and is a registered AKC handler. He attended those shows and IF it was an OES it was Smokin. He was the Top Herding dog in the Nation for 2006. He had 56 all breed BIS and numerous other accomplishments in his carrer. That was the Idaho and Montana Circut. As AKC handlers, they are inspected and a check list must be completed as to the auto/van they drive, kennel set-up for the dogs, insurance nd other requirements before they are accepted as AKC Handlers. There is a fee for this also that must be paid to AKC. The inspections are done by other AKC handlers and even the AKC representative who is employed by AKC. My son has had both of these individuals for his inspections. His type of transportation is a 44 foot RENEGADE which has a living quarters in it for him and his family. The rear part of the Van/ motorhome is set up for the dogs and he has a bed in the back of this section where one or both of his assists sleep with the dogs to insure the dogs are safe and NOT in stress during the night. The Renegade is set up with a LARGE Diesel generator and has TWO air conditioners on it for cooling. There is also several fans running at all times during the summer months. The rear section has a hydrolic lift and a roll up door which can be used for multiple cases of loading and air circulation. He has a vent escape which also a good air source. There is always someone who is around or near to the unit to check on the dogs. PLUS...... he has an alarm system which is attached to the generator to notify him with a pager he has on him due to any power loss. He has multiple x-pen set ups and they are on mats so they are protected from the elements of rain, dirt, weeds and what ever they have to be protected from. He also has sunscreens that cover these pens. Like you said in your post.......there are all kinds of very expensive Motorhomes and Rigs and I can honestly say that most of these handlers are serious, responsible handlers and care about the dogs they show like they are their own. They pu alot of money into the set-ups on the Rigs and Vans that they drive.These handlers have a long busy day at the dog shows. Not only do they show dogs and run from one ring to another, they are also tending to the dogs and grooming for the next ring time. They start at 5:00 AM and go till 9:00-10:00 PM doing nothing but dog duties. We showed our own dogs which included OES and Bouviers. But there are those who use handlers for different reasons. Handlers are to help others who have health issues and can not show. This past weekend one of the people on this forum used an top handler to show her dogs for this reason against us. She had this handlers wife show the first day and she had him show the second day. She could not show her own dogs and so she hired the one of the best handlers in this area. Sometimes a handler is like a gladiator.........they are hired to do battle against another top handler. WHY? If there are two equal dogs in the ring then it becomes a handler exhibit and it is fun to watch such a battle to see who out shows who??? . Most of the time a handler does a better job in the presentation of a dog. This is not always so with the OES as they are not an easy dog to show. The owners get the dogs ready for the handler as it takes 2-3 hours of prep work to get them ring ready. Other owners may need points on the dog and the handler will have more PULL with a certain judge and may be able to help put points on the dog and in the long run.....save the owner money. So.......the handling or hiring handlers have different reasons for people. The point is this.......ALL MOST ALL AKC Handlers are very knowledgeable responsible handlers and will go the extra mile to protect and care for the clients dog/dogs. I trust my son with my TOP dogs and about 22-25 others do also each weekend with the dogs he carries on his truck. This case with the hot van and dogs is very unfortunate. I feel for this gal having to accept the loss of these dogs who were loved by the owners and by her also. She just made a bad call of judgemnet. I can say that the handlers I know and what I did was when we came back from shows........The dogs were put into the kennels for several reasons. They had fresh water and they could stretch out their legs and excercise. They were not kept into the crates longer than they needed to be in them. This was at 2:00 am or 5:00 am ....it made no difference as to what time. They were in the kennels when they come home. I can go on about this subject, but I hope this can answer some of the questions you may have about handlers and the love they have doing this job with the dogs they carry. I know that I did and still today think of my favorite dogs that I showed. Doug Johnson |
| That is horrible.... |
| Doug: A very good explanation of how handlers care for their dogs, explained in laymen terms for those who are not that familiar with the show scene! |
| I am sure this is not the first time this has happened to a handler or an owner. How sad for someone to lose their dog that way. I guess that is why you take all the precautions you do now. Personally, I never leave my dogs or kids in the car in any weather. I know it's different when you are showing, but I would have them in the a/c with me. |
| An extremely poor judgment call and very irresponsible. The time discrepancy bothers me too... she found they were in distress at 6:30 but didn't call the vet until 9:08? I can see how handler's assistants can be invaluable... in this case I would think one would have prevented this tragedy.
With summer here, one thing to keep in mind... Don't rely on your vehicle's remote starter to keep your dog cool while making that "quick" stop if you have your dogs with you. People often take the keys out, start the car with the remote and then lock it up thinking the dog should be fine. But many of these devices automatically shut off after a set period of time- 5-10-20-30? minutes. Jim and I were so ticked last week... we saw a woman come out of a store with a cart full of groceries. She opened the back of the SUV and a panting Golden Retriever greeted her. The windows were all rolled up and the car was not running. It was in the high 80s. |
| Never do my dogs get 'left' in any vehicle. period.
I've known of dog just in their own yard, black flat coats that have died. I've known of more than 3 handlers , even one on a forum that have lost a dog to being left in a van, or trailer. No one takes my dogs anymore. they travel with me and i hand them off at ringside to the handler. And as much as i have flown with my dogs, after all of these accidents lately (starting with the one here in Denver last December) I don't even want to put my dogs on a plane. And I am the first person to jump on a plane to go somewhere rather than drive. Just the way i was raised.......... heck we even had our own Cessena when i was growing up. I was the only one to not get my license. I did solo and loved touch and go's.......... but would rather sit there and have a glass of champagne and a nice comfy seat when i fly......... but my dogs? until they let me put them up in the cabin with me, no way. |
| Hanndler charged with 8 counts of cruelty
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/missouristatenews/story/87A7A8F407EFE70C862575EB0072CDCD?OpenDocument |
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