Jackson bit a kid, please help me
Jackson is a member of my family and I love her so much. It physically hurts me to think about this situation. Even if she did not mean to do this, I cannot in good conscience allow other kids into our home. We also live at a sort of dead end road, so when I walk Jackson the best way to go is right past this little boys house. I know that if I was that little boy I would not want the dog that bit me to walk past my house every day. Finally, my sister is our normal dog sitter if we go somewhere. As she has a three year old, she has stated to me that she does not want Jackson around her son anymore. I understand her concern completely but this makes me feel even more trapped. Please please please help me - what should I do?!?! I called 911 when the bite happened per the boys mothers request and did report the bite but have not yet heard from the authorities. Jackson is up to date on all her shots and is fixed. I plan on going to the boys house today after work to see if he is alright as his mother was planning on taking him to the doctors yesterday or today. Please, someone tell me what I should do! |
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| Animal control will contact you. You need to get the pup to a dog behavorist to determine what it is that sets her off. We fall into the belief our dogs love everyone and can handle everything. Not true, they have problems just as we do. She may not trust you to protect the situation and feel she has to do it herself.
How much training has Jackson had? How much exercise? In the mean time get a muzzle and use it when walking out in publc. While you are determining why the dog attacked and how to overcome her fears, keep her away from children who visit.....for awhile you need to be sending your children out to play. Mothers have long memories, it will take a long time for them to forget the incident....if they ever do. |
| Do you think she was just excited and jumped up, spazzed out, and nipped? I don't know your dog but this sounds like a pretty possible puppy maneuver-- not that it makes the situation any less serious. |
Someone will in dded contact you - but just because it is one of my pet issues - a dog bite does not rise to the level of a 911 call  .
one of the first thing we were taught in our last set of puppy classes (dog number 4 at the moment) is not to let the children approach unless the dog seems 100% accepting of the kids (no head turning, no whining, no yawning, no ears back etc etc.) and then only one kid at a time. If your dog didn't growl first it is not that unusual for a sheepdog. If you watch them on sheep - they go form zero to 60 in a nanosecond, they are bred to be reactive in a sense, since they are bred to herd (hopefully still) and herding is nothing more than a series of intelligent reactions really. Your dog isn't mean, or aggressive or anti social. Something most likely set her off and you didn't notice. My rule with the dogs - when in doubt, say no. Deep breaths.  |
| I'm sorry, nix my comment. For some reason (and I don't know why I got this in my head), I thought you said she was 10 months old. That same puppy move shouldn't apply. |
ButtersStotch wrote: I'm sorry, nix my comment. For some reason (and I don't know why I got this in my head), I thought you said she was 10 months old. That same puppy move shouldn't apply.
well it could in an overactive untrained dog - 2 isn't all that old for an OES.  |
| There is pretty much zero training offered within 100 miles of us, so she has not received ANY formal training at all. Also, this is mine and my husbands first dog together and his first dog ever (he never even had a pet as a child). I have had many animals but Jackson is 100% the most difficult one I have ever tried to train. She is stubborn to the max.
Yesterday after work I went to check on the child and his dad and him stated that he was doing just fine. They stated that they took him to the doctor Sunday night and he got a shot but they are now thinking that she may have clawed rather than bit. Still she jumped up at his face. This is proving to be a most emotional experience for us. I know it may seem silly to some, but this incident is filling me with so much anxiety it is unreal. Please, keep the comments coming.... |
Training is your number one concern - these dogs don't do well without it and they don't reallys ettle down until 3 or so even with it 
Call the cooperative extension, check with any groomers and kennels - there are trainers, they are just probably so busy they don't have to advertise. |
Jack Attack wrote: Yesterday after work I went to check on the child and his dad and him stated that he was doing just fine. They stated that they took him to the doctor Sunday night and he got a shot but they are now thinking that she may have clawed rather than bit. Still she jumped up at his face.
Yes, she did. But my youngest will do the same thing if I don't stay on top of them. Usually not on kids, but familiar adults are at risk of getting a face full of sheepdog. It's just bad manners and can be worked on. And, yes, OES bitches, especially, can be very stubborn. Exhibit A: 
Notice the mask? Some time when I have more time I'll give you my theory on why masked bitches are in a category of their own in the "knows their own mind, won't mind you" department 
Take a deep breath, be grateful your neighbors are not of the hysterical variety, and commit Jack to boot-camp. Just working on sit and down and stay will get you a lot more control for starters. Quietly, away from the kids for now. Then add distractions later. Even stubborn bitches respond to positive training methods if you figure out what positive means to them. If she loves greeting new people (and kids), she can earn her reward (getting petted/acknowledged - when you get that far) by sitting nicely and waiting to be approached and petted. No nice sit, no greeting, oops Too bad. And only work her around people you feel real secure around in the beginning till you feel comfortable that you truly do trust her. Just in case there is any lingering doubts in your mind that what she did wasn't completely innocent (rude, but innocent). If you worry, she'll worry, and you risk creating a problem where none existed. It'll be OK. Kristine |
Quote: There is pretty much zero training offered within 100 miles of us
Where are you in northern Michigan? |
| I really like the book "My Smart Puppy":
http://astore.amazon.com/mysmartpuppy-2 ... 044657886X It has alot of training exercises that you can play as games with your pup. I used it with Maggie when I adopted her untrained at 1 and it really helped. I still use the strategies in it probably every day. |
| I feel your pain and I don't know Jackson but My brother had this rottie/blk lab and he did not like black people. My brother worked at a gas station and the dog always laid behind the desk and if he saw or heard a blk person he would freak......... not sure but maybe the little boy was just that .... different from what she was used to...... no excuse but maybe an answer.... definatley a behaviorist
I feel sad for Jackson maybe it was just a jump up hey how ya doing  |
| really people?? Bigotted dogs??? I think not - dogs read their owners and will react to what is being projected. It sounds like something my mother would have said - 40 years ago.
I can tell you I have never had a dog that reacted to a person of any color, because of their race. Let's try training the dog and leave the personal stuff at the door.  |
| Josh grew up with an Old English Sheepdog named Muffy. She was 5 when he was born. They were inseperable, Josh would oftentimes sleep on Muffy.
On our first date, I noticed the scars on Josh's face. He has a V shaped scar next to his ear and a few puncture marks on his cheek and under his jaw. The story is that when Josh was 6, he got up in the middle of the night to get a glass of water. He inadvertantly tripped over Muffy. She had been blinded in one eye as a puppy from a cat and her other eye was heavily cataracted. Instinctively, she turned her head and she bit him. Josh started to cry and instantly, she realized that it was him. She whined and was licking his face. Josh was taken to the hospital to get stitches. His mother put down Muffy, she was too terrified that another accident would happen. It was a very hard decision as Muffy was the love of both their lives. Josh said he still feels that it is his fault that Muffy was put down. When Josh's mother died, she requested that she and Muffy's ashes be mixed. I don't think that this is the route your story will go, your puppy is still young, up-to-date on shots, and probably just needs training. |
| Trainers I've used have recommended socializing a puppy with all kinds of people. People wearing big hats, with canes, trench coats, beards and people of a different skin color. This article also says this-
Quote: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1811
1. Accustom your dog to people of as many different appearances as possible. This includes people who are tall, short, narrow, wide, bearded, short-haired, long-haired, and with skin all the colors of the rainbow. Whatever differences you and your dog come across, your goal is to teach the dog that these things are not important. Adult dogs that have only experienced pale skin people and adult dogs that have only experienced dark skin people may need just a little more time to observe a person of a "new" color before being forced into a social situation for the first time. |
| Jaci,
I live in Oscoda, about 40 miles south of Alpena, on the east side of the state. Know any trainers? I think as the hours go by I am slowly starting to calm down, thank you all for the comments. Training sounds like our best bet, and I suppose that with training they will want more socialization. I love Jackson so much I hope that she did not mean to hurt the poor boy, she has been so sweet since the incident!! (she is always sweet, but it seems like she is being more cuddly and affectionate). Any advise for things to do or not do with Jackson and my two nine year olds? Should I seperate (sp) her from them or let them go about their normal lives? |
| DOgs and children should always be supervised. We used to have a mini poodle - they are tempermental. Once my kids gott of an age that they understood what they could and couldn't do around the dog, if they got nipped I figured it was their fault and asked them what THEY did before stepping in (never did they not have aan answer what they had done they shouldn't have. Granted OES are bigger, but any kid that lives with a dog will get scratched at the very least. Only you can decide what risk you can take.
That said, one thing to be aware of is that in doggie parlance a bite on the head and face is a "fair" bite. Watch them play fight - they target in on the head (and our guys maybe the rear legs like they will do to sheep), a dog that goes for a hand (front leg) or the body is considered to not be fighting fair. It doesn't jive with our concept - we think OMG they went for his face! Look at your dogs head, what possibly can they really hurt - maybe they eyes, all t erest is pretty bony and will heal, not a vital part of the foe. And yes, whatever she did (bite or scratch the kid), she probably didn't mean it and she is being contrite. I have seen it myself with my own dogs. |
| Trainers I've used have recommended socializing a puppy with all kinds of people. People wearing big hats, with canes, trench coats, beards and people of a different skin color. This article also says this-
Quote: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1811 1. Accustom your dog to people of as many different appearances as possible. This includes people who are tall, short, narrow, wide, bearded, short-haired, long-haired, and with skin all the colors of the rainbow. Whatever differences you and your dog come across, your goal is to teach the dog that these things are not important. This is all I was saying .... that if the child was different looking from the rest the dog may have reacted. |
| I know |
ravenbrook wrote: Trainers I've used have recommended socializing a puppy with all kinds of people. People wearing big hats, with canes, trench coats, beards and people of a different skin color. This article also says this-
Quote: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1811 1. Accustom your dog to people of as many different appearances as possible. This includes people who are tall, short, narrow, wide, bearded, short-haired, long-haired, and with skin all the colors of the rainbow. Whatever differences you and your dog come across, your goal is to teach the dog that these things are not important. This is all I was saying .... that if the child was different looking from the rest the dog may have reacted. Yes! I am somewhat embarrassed that my dog seems to have a racist and ageist streak in him. He tends to growl when he is startled by large framed dark-skinned people, or old men with long white beards and hair. I'm trying to resolve this right now by (whenever I get a chance) walking over to large framed people and old guys with beards and asking them if my dog can meet them. He's never had any problems children, but just to be on the safe side, I also make sure he has ample opportunity to meet different new children. Any other tips? |
Quote: I live in Oscoda, about 40 miles south of Alpena, on the east side of the state. Know any trainers?
I'm on the opposite side of the state. You might ask to see if you can get some recommendations on a good humane trainer from... - Your vet or other local vets... often, a good receptionist will know too. - A Humane Society or shelter in your area. - A kennel club in your area. - http://www.apdt.com/default.aspx Not all trainers will be the type you're hoping to find so ask about their training technique. |
6Girls wrote: Not all trainers will be the type you're hoping to find so ask about their training technique. from personal experience I can tell you you really want a trainer who is not tied to one specific method of training - but has a toolbox full of options and will use what works with your dog - as you see, they are all different. |
| I have to add that my 3rd OES male would go ballistic in my car if he even saw an African American person on the street. If they are not used to being around ethnic diversity...they can react.
It sounds as though you just have an over-excitable, bad mannered big girl however. Hopefully it can all be worked out. If it wasn't a bite animal control should be told as well. |
| Thank you all again for the comments. I have asked my vet for trainer suggestions but she has none, just as she has no groomer recommendations for OES. AHHHH, the joys up up-north living!! Just to put it in perspective, me DO have a Kmart in our hometown but the closest Walmart is 20 miles from my house. |
Jack Attack wrote: Thank you all again for the comments. I have asked my vet for trainer suggestions but she has none, just as she has no groomer recommendations for OES. AHHHH, the joys up up-north living!!
Just to put it in perspective, me DO have a Kmart in our hometown but the closest Walmart is 20 miles from my house. I live in New York and until we moved four years ago, we had no Kmart in our town and the nearest Walmart was 20 miles away. We did have a stewarts (milk and gass) 6 miles away. My trainer (until this year) has never been closer than 40 miles each way. Now I have one 25 miles each way (where is the happy dance icon?) and Walmart is only 10 (but I shop at Target and that is 50!).  |
wendy58 wrote: I have to add that my 3rd OES male would go ballistic in my car if he even saw an African American person on the street. If they are not used to being around ethnic diversity...they can react.
It sounds as though you just have an over-excitable, bad mannered big girl however. Hopefully it can all be worked out. If it wasn't a bite animal control should be told as well. My dogs are the same...but I figured out why...one day I was home sick and I heard the dogs going ballistic...the sanitation workers were in the side yard getting the garbage...they just happened to be African American...all my dogs knew is that someone was on our property taking our stuff. |
| Just another thought regarding the "bite" is that I have been injured (minorly) by both my dogs' teeth when playing simply because they had their mouths open and turned their heads sharply and a tooth scrapped me.
It is still a behavior that needs correcting (her jumping up), but I doubt she knew she was hurting him. I hope you can find a trainer to help you. And I'm glad your neighbors aren't freaking out about it.  |
| IMHO I happen to think the more socialization the better. This goes for all breeds not just the OES. We live in the 'middle of nowhere', so I am working on trips into town with my OES puppy and walks through places like Petsmart. My old lab didn't get this same socialization and it definitely shows.
They definitely do notice people that are different in ethnicity. I also know of some dogs belonging to African American owners who react differently to Caucasians. It is not a racist thing at all. God created these wonderful animals and it is up to us to care for them and socialize them the best we can. Even something as different as someone wearing work gloves -my lab can't stand that! Good luck, I am happy the child was okay!  |
| http://superdog.com/trainer%20pages/tra ... higan.html
Try this one, located in Alpena. I know nothing about them but it's worth giving them a call. |
| Thanks bestdogs, I checked out the link and have never heard of them before either. I would think someone on this page has as they say on their website that they are located in California, Colorado, and several other states. They only have an 800 number to call for Michigan, no regional contact info, but I will give them a call and see what they are about. |
| Hi, I was reading your post about your dog who nipped a child. My mother has a 9 year old sheepie and he can be a rambunctious boy! They are known for their affection towards people and I have noticed and read quite a few things about sheepies behavior. It sounds like Jackson was taking part in "hearding" instinct with the other child.
Our sheepie Cody will occasionaly nip at my face when I am petting him. I always tell him no; thankfully he has never bit me on accident but some sheepies will nip or start snapping their teeth in succession to signify they like what you are doing. If Jackson was being aggressive he would have been growling at the child. And yes....the first time I was introduced to our new sheepie, he jumped and nipped close to my face...brat that he is...and we've had a good relationship afterwards. Tell him no, have a good grip on the leash next time (not saying you did not have a good grip but they are big guys!) and come to expect that it may be instinct for your sheepie to act like this on occasion. |
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