Blue OES Puppies
reading about OES puppies that are born blue,silver like in color? Wasn't this written about in maybe, The Complete Old English Sheepdog, By John Mandeville? |
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| Blue puppies are born Silver and white in colour, eye colour too is if there eyes are going to be blue a more greyish light colour or if brown more a greenish goldie light colour to them.
Pigment on them as they develope is more a slate grey then black. Here is a link on a blue puppy in a litter, if you scroll down you will see. http://www.tolkienoes.com/Seminar_Coat_color.htm |
| I saw on a ladies blog a litter of recently born OES puppies,2 silverish blue puppies in the litter.
I emailed her and she said yes, there are 2 in the litter,both are females. I have never seen this before. Of course it was a picture,but you could definitely tell the difference. Robin |
| Robin, a friend has a born blue puppy. It wasn't quite as obvious as Lisa described (in fact, I "talked" to her about it when it happened), but there were three long time OES breeders there when she and the rest of the litter was born and they all immediately saw it. It became a little more obvious as the weeks went by.
Because of the associated incorrect nose and eye color this color is not permitted per the standard. As in the dogs should not be shown in conformation. There have been born blue breed champions, however. I talked to an AKC breeder-judge, actually, she used to be head of judge's education, and she said you had to look closely to notice the nose and eye color wasn't quite right on some of them as adults. FWIW Kristine |
| Thank you guys for the response.
Lisa, with the link. I put that link in my favs. Anyone who owns an OES, should do the same,if nothing else for the correct information. Loved how you could read about the history thru the years, the Standard point of view. Like I said the 2 puppies in her blog pictures,caught my eye. My curious mind is now satisfied. Robin |
| I know this isn't the same issue, but I have been reading old OESTimes with pedigree info in them - many many more dogs were described as blue thna gray. infact most people talked about the lovely blue gray - it may be me bit most of the older dogs look silver to me, not blue gray. Has the color changed over the years or is it the quality of the photos? |
| Good question.If anyone is interested in seeing the puppies I am referring to
[no links/info how to find puppies for sale please] This is where I saw these silvery blue puppies. Robin |
| The BOB winner at the National specialty in Cleveland was a born blue from Bahlambs kennel years ago. And it was another breeder that judged there that put him up. They are shown............ |
| I am sorry, Ron.
You are right, that was a no no. Robin |
| My first OES was what they called at the time "Grizzle". I think it was kind of a dark blue/gray. My second was a very light grey as a pup. They were from a puppy mill type breeder in the 1970's-1980's. Knowing what I do now, it would not have been an option. The second one was a mess. |
The amount of colour change over the first couple of years amazes me.  |
wendy58 wrote: My first OES was what they called at the time "Grizzle". I think it was kind of a dark blue/gray. When we first welcomed Mulligan into our home, in the right light you could see definite shades of blue in his hair. Now not at all.
He's a walleye and he was just a month shy of two years old when we adopted him. |
wendy58 wrote: My first OES was what they called at the time "Grizzle". I think it was kind of a dark blue/gray. My second was a very light grey as a pup. They were from a puppy mill type breeder in the 1970's-1980's. Knowing what I do now, it would not have been an option. The second one was a mess.
Wendy, Grizzle is not a particular colour, rather it is a generic term which refers to the dark coat. Because there was/is such a wide range in colouring in the breed, "grizzle" became a generic term. Granted it's use has fallen markedly in recent years but is still part of the breed vocabulary. In fact I used the term in a post some time ago and another member asked what grizzle was. A third member posted that grizzle referes to the dark coat so even here it is still used and known to some extent. Thanks and Cheers Carl |
| All,
I remember the blue hues in the Bobtail's grizzle being much more prominent when I went to dog shows as a teenager than they are now. In some dogs there were very distinct lines or swirls of blue which made for a very dramatic coat. Over the years though blue appears to have become a very rare colour amongst the grizzle coat, at least here in central/eastern Canada. The only colouration that is more rare than blue is the blue merle which, in my opinion, is exceedingly spectacular on a bobtail! Empirically this loss of blue seems to correspond to the increasing incidence of white-headedness. Could any of the more experienced breeders here offer commentary on this? Thanks and Cheers Carl |
| Can you post a photo of a merle bobtail? From your post I understand that you have seen one ... |
| I've never seen a true merle in oes, and every breeder I've talked to has said they have never seen one, including one who has been in the breed for over 60 years.....
My girl Sky *maybe* is the closest to merle I've seen in oes, blue-grey coat with some black flecking throughout, but not the really distinguishable merle like you see in other breeds like aussies for example. |
Willowsprite wrote: I've never seen a true merle in oes, and every breeder I've talked to has said they have never seen one, including one who has been in the breed for over 60 years.....
. Ditto there has been lots of discussion around the world on wether there is really such a true thing as a true "Blue Merle" like you see in Aussie shepards, collies, shelties and Blue Cattle dogs etc in coat colour on an OES. Standards in Europe/UK/Here also that coat colouring has been deleted from the standard. If you have a picture of a true Blue merle OES Carl would love to see one, never seen an OES with a Blue merle coat and had the breed since 1976. Even older time breeders I have spoken too over the years have never really seen one either or confirmed there is or was such in an OES. 
Grizzle can be taken in so many different ways, my view on Grizzle is light undercoat and the guard hairs each hair is varied in colour, from silvery ones to any shade of grey to blue grizzled through the entire coat on the fully mature coat. Sort of like it sounds "Grizzled" with different shades of grey on the courser outer guard hairs..  |
gumbo41 wrote: I put that link in my favs.
Anyone who owns an OES, should do the same,if nothing else for the correct information. Robin Robin not all the coat colours in this link is correct for people living outside the Americas. We along with UK and Europe are not allowed the splashing in the back coat. It is not encouraged at all and penalised in the showring if you present an OES with White in the back coat. Krisitne I did sound dramatic with the way a blue OES puppy is born, should of said, silvery, light grey flecks through the black baby puppy coat   |
| Tonks and Luna both have black spots in their gray coats that you can see when they are shaved. I was under the impression ( i think I read it somewhere?) that scarring would cause this dis-coloration in their coats. As small pups the girls played so rough I was always pulling scabs from their coats, and assumed this was responsible for the dark spotting in their gray. Is this correct, or is it the mythical merle you are discussing? |
This is a pic of my parents new puppy Buddy, who is a lab/aussie mix, and he is definitely merle.
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| Buddy is adorable - and what a fun mix he will be. I hope you have energetic parents! |
got sheep wrote: Buddy is adorable - and what a fun mix he will be. I hope you have energetic parents!
He is a sweet dog.... they were going to get a pup from my litter but didn't think they were up to the challenge of an oes since they are basically puppies for at least 2 or 3 years, and the coat is what concerned them the most. I of course would have taken care of grooming etc and if they had decided to keep a boy for me they would have gotten Willy. Anyway, Buddy is a sweetie but SO submissive and timid. We're trying to bring him out of his shell with playdates with Willy since they are close in age, and he does seem to be coming around. I think their pup was taken from it's mum too early, the dog has NO confidence whatsoever. |
Willowsprite wrote: got sheep wrote: Buddy is adorable - and what a fun mix he will be. I hope you have energetic parents! He is a sweet dog.... they were going to get a pup from my litter but didn't think they were up to the challenge of an oes since they are basically puppies for at least 2 or 3 years, and the coat is what concerned them the most. I of course would have taken care of grooming etc and if they had decided to keep a boy for me they would have gotten Willy. Anyway, Buddy is a sweetie but SO submissive and timid. We're trying to bring him out of his shell with playdates with Willy since they are close in age, and he does seem to be coming around. I think their pup was taken from it's mum too early, the dog has NO confidence whatsoever. That's too bad. 
How old is he now? The Paw where I train has a puppy camp and they are finding it works really well for those shy puppies. It builds their confidence and expands their little horizons. They play, experience new things in a positive, supportive situation. They play in and outside, in groups of like puppies (size, personality), get bathed, groomed, handled, crated. I wish mine had this back then! |
| the color change began before 7 weeks old and now he is 8 weeks. I posted photos of his right front paw on our profile- pending approval.(still cannot figure out how to post on topic) It was silver now seems a little brownish - there is white underneath. has anyone seen this before? his rear legs are turning white. |
| ooooh Buddy is adorable, love that coat - my Collies mum is a blue merle and he has absolutely no merle in him at all |
| Buddy is about 6 and a half months now.... |
oesmom2 wrote: the color change began before 7 weeks old and now he is 8 weeks. I posted photos of his right front paw on our profile- pending approval.(still cannot figure out how to post on topic) It was silver now seems a little brownish - there is white underneath. has anyone seen this before? his rear legs are turning white.
Looks like that puppy with the tan points is a mix. |
oesmom2 wrote: the color change began before 7 weeks old and now he is 8 weeks. I posted photos of his right front paw on our profile- pending approval.(still cannot figure out how to post on topic) It was silver now seems a little brownish - there is white underneath. has anyone seen this before? his rear legs are turning white.
Your baby looks all OES to me, looks like your in for an early light junior coat coming in. When mine changed they went so light grey nearly a white colour before changing back later on to a darker adult coat. Sometimes at this stage they can get a bit of bronzing on the ends of the coat.
Here is a picture of Brie with her really light junior coat and you can see another change happening on her as her mature coat is starting to come in on this photo.
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| yes he is all oes. thanks for the coat change info. |
Willowsprite wrote: oesmom2 wrote: the color change began before 7 weeks old and now he is 8 weeks. I posted photos of his right front paw on our profile- pending approval.(still cannot figure out how to post on topic) It was silver now seems a little brownish - there is white underneath. has anyone seen this before? his rear legs are turning white. Looks like that puppy with the tan points is a mix. |
| Archie was listed as Blue in his colouring, I often wondered what on earth it meant
I suppose I do catch glimpses of it occasionally in his coat, but to my eye it's grey! I suppose Archie does have a similar colour to http://www.tolkienoes.com/Seminar_Blue_adult.JPG 
seems to show a blueish cast to the grey part of his coat? |
Nelson came from a shelter so we are not exactly sure how old he was. Vet estimated 4 mos. His coat has never been black. These are pictures taken when he first came home
What color is it? |
| We have had some very notable Born blues in the breed Ch.Bahlambs Broadway Bill Board won the National Specialty in 1990 in breeder-judge Mona Berkowitz Ch.Bahlambs Blue Billie Boy-Winners Dog at the 1976 National Specialty under Romona Van Court Ch.Jendowers Cloud Nine-Best of Opposite sex under breeder judge Hugh Jordan at the 1976 National Specialty Ch.Jendowers Spencer-sire of 22 champions Ch.Sunup's Bred White and Blue-finished from the Puppy Classes which a huge win at Western Reserve Kennel Club under breeder judge Sally Carr-she also went Best in Sweeps that day. |
Gwen wrote: Nelson came from a shelter so we are not exactly sure how old he was. Vet estimated 4 mos. His coat has never been black. These are pictures taken when he first came home What color is it? Gwen, Im not sure what your puppy's color is but just to let you know it is possible for a puppy to be born black and to be totally grey by the time they are 4 months old. (my Lil girl did it) |
| For a more detailed information and pictures, if you really want to know, go and ask Dianne McKee Rowland of Blue Panda OES. Dianne can tellyou every thing you need to know and pictures alike. She is who i went to when i wanted to know more. I remember the dog that won BOB in Cleveland at the specialty that year had yell/green eyes................. |
| My Rosie wsa a Blue Merle....... |
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