BVA Hip Scoring
 my vet has just quoted £40.00 cheque to BVA, and £179.00 to vets for hip scoring  this price does not include elbows  me thinks I will have to look around for cheaper quotes.
Any UK peeps know of any vets that carry out this procedure at a cheaper price; Im in Hertfordshire. Debs, wot thinks she should have become a VET  |
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Your BVA fee to have the x-rays read and graded remains the same regardless for the elbows as well only a little bit more is charged by the BVA to read them as well. Good to have both done if you are breeding. 
Shop around for a better Vet price, but be carefull too, see if you can get someone to refer a vet that is "experienced" in the proper way to place the dog for the best and most accurate x-ray to go off to the BVA for scoring. Not all vets can do this properly so ask around and also compare prices. I can tell you here all up around $400-500 AU to have the dogs done, both hips and elbows and the fee to the AVA, I have two to be done later on in the year
Expensive breeding and health testing. Dont forget to get her eyes screened as well, yep more expense but well worth it for a clean expensive bill of health Best wishes with it all  |
| Willow had her eyes tested in April, she has a clear eye certificate. I will certainly shop around.
Debsx |
Dollysmum wrote: Willow had her eyes tested in April, she has a clear eye certificate. I will certainly shop around.
Debsx In the states, at least, the eye cert has to be good within a year of the breeding, if not, needs to be redone. Should be redone annually anyway. Or at least every other year. Don't forget the thyroid and BAER testing as well. BAER is only done once. Thyroid, same as eyes, needs to be up to date and redone annually till age five, then every other year I believe is the recommendation in the US. Oh, ain't breeding fun
Kristine |
| Kristine does BAER testing as a puppy count or does it need to be redone? Just curious. |
| Eye certs in Australia, annually up to the age of 7-8 years old for that final clearance.
Thyroid is hardly ever done here, I do and well worth having done before breeding as well as the dog you are using at stud being done too if not already
BAER testing we dont do here but hopefully it will come into it in the future, the more things we can test for the better for the breed as a whole and what they produce progeny wise. |
| I know extremely very few breeders here that do cerf more than twice. thyroid only once if that, and very few do baer......
Hips are done at 2 years of age and where i live cost 80.00 per dog. A brucellosis test is also 'suggested' before breeding. Especially if the breeding is a natural one. The only 'compulsory' one is the hips. |
kerry wrote: Kristine does BAER testing as a puppy count or does it need to be redone? Just curious.
Yup, puppy BAER counts. You do it once and it's good for life. One of the reasons I did Mad's whole litter. Knew I wouldn't have to nag anyone later. Kristine |
Ali wrote: I know extremely very few breeders here that do cerf more than twice. thyroid only once if that, and very few do baer......
Hips are done at 2 years of age and where i live cost 80.00 per dog. A brucellosis test is also 'suggested' before breeding. Especially if the breeding is a natural one. The only 'compulsory' one is the hips. Yup, that about sums it up. Except for the $80 per dog . I paid significantly more, but now that I think about it it makes sense since I did elbows, so three pics per dog. My vet was still kind to me, in part because she's a good friend, in part because she's an OES breeder herself, and in part because I did three littermates at once.
Anyway, there's what you SHOULD do, which is spelled out in CHIC (ideally, hips, elbows, hearing, eyes, thyroid - required for CHIC, along with hips and CERF - as well as cardiac, and then what you minimally "must" do according to the code of ethics, which I think includes eyes, but I haven't <gasp!> read it in a while. Some breeders will routinely do CERF and thyroid, but not submit to OFA, because it's extra work and extra $$$s. I think it's worth it; not necessarily for me as a lone breeder (I still have the proper documentation either way), but because it is useful information for all breeders when it's public in that way. I also check that little box that says please disclose results no matter what. So when I'm looking through the OFA registry and happen to come across an OES who didn't pass hips, or thyroid or CERF (the most common ones), I quietly think fond thoughts of the person who had the guts to share that info, because as a breed we're certainly not there yet. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: I also check that little box that says please disclose results no matter what. So when I'm looking through the OFA registry and happen to come across an OES who didn't pass hips, or thyroid or CERF (the most common ones), I quietly think fond thoughts of the person who had the guts to share that info, because as a breed we're certainly not there yet.
I agree Kristine, full disclosure is so important. BTW what is BAER testing? |
| Judi, excellent question. It's a test that evaluates whether a dog can hear or not. Since dogs can't tell you whether they're hearing something or not, and since they can be unilaterally deaf (deaf in one ear only) and efffectively cover that partial deafness (which has distinct genetic implications), we need something more sophisticated to measure whether a dog can hear or not. As described on the LSU site http://www.lsu.edu/deafness/baerexpl.htm
Kristine |
| Thanks Kristine.
We know that the breed suffers from SELECTIVE hearing.
It works out quite well for them.
Seriously, I wish that we could educate the buyers and that the AKC would at the very least differentiate between registered litters that come from genetic testing. As far as I can tell most backyard breeders tout that they have "AKC puppies" and most buyers think this means that they are quality. As if the AKC is the better business bureau and actually monitors breeding practices. What does AKC registered mean anyway? Of course most first time buyers are completely ignorant and do not even have an idea what are the health problems with the breed they have selected. I know this described us back in 1976 and then when I got my first OES as an adult I knew nothing about the testing until after we got our dog - and of course she was a genetic nightmare. But it really gripes me that buyers know about testing and look the other way because their POCKETBOOK drives their rational. |
| In Canada hips are certified at 18 months and up.
Same here for Baer, anytime, and Cerf has to be done once a year to keep it up to date but few do that. Thyroid only a handful do before breeding, and even of those few, even fewer repeat it. I wish there was a test to predict arthritis in a dog. My Dancer doodle already has a hard time moving around and she isn't even 6 yet  She seems like an old dog way before her time. |
Willowsprite wrote: In Canada hips are certified at 18 months and up.
Same here for Baer, anytime, and Cerf has to be done once a year to keep it up to date but few do that. Thyroid only a handful do before breeding, and even of those few, even fewer repeat it. I wish there was a test to predict arthritis in a dog. My Dancer doodle already has a hard time moving around and she isn't even 6 yet She seems like an old dog way before her time.I just had a three year old diagnosed with arthirtis in her elbow - but it is secondary to an injury which is part of the problem with testing, dogs may be genetically susceptible or they may not be the kind to, exert themselves, shall we say so may not have an incidence. Xray's are good diagnostic tools to check how the joints are in regards to arthritis (its how I know I have it in my spine )
What tests do you do and what do you recommend? |
Quote: A brucellosis test is also 'suggested' before breeding. I didn't know how untreatable Brucellosis was until I was preparing to bring in a pregnant girl. My vet stressed the importance of getting her tested before ever bringing her on the property. I've seen the estimates but how often do breeders actually see this condition? Anyone rescuing a former breeding bitch/dog should also have them tested... especially if you have other dogs. It's important to note however that there can be false-positives. http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... 02&aid=404 http://www.azdhs.gov/phs/oids/vector/br ... _owner.pdf Quote: Seriously, I wish that we could educate the buyers and that the AKC would at the very least differentiate between registered litters that come from genetic testing. As far as I can tell most backyard breeders tout that they have "AKC puppies" and most buyers think this means that they are quality. As if the AKC is the better business bureau and actually monitors breeding practices. What does AKC registered mean anyway?
Most of us were that uneducated buyer at one time and you're exactly right about people thinking AKC is some stamp of approval. Two registration classes would be an excellent idea. It would allow responsible breeders to separate themselves from irresponsible ones. It might get the uneducated buyer to ask about the difference in registration... like AKC and AKC-Tested. |
SheepieMommy wrote: What does AKC registered mean anyway?
"We're pretty darn sure we can trace your dog's family tree back X number of generations" [depending on breed etc] With the advent of DNA testing they can now check for paternity (maternity) if this is ever called into question. This came up in another thread - the DNA number listed on some dog's registration merely means that the AKC has the dog's DNA on file. It's not health related. All of my dogs have a "DNA" number issued by OFA that merely means that blood samples were taken and stored and can be used for research purposes should the need arise. In fact, if memory serves, Harry donated too  Again, not a health test in and of itself. But potentially vital for future research which may yield additional health testing.
The AKC serves the purpose it was meant to serve. Like you, I was clueless when I got my first OES. She was reasonably OK healthwise, though she was barely 11 when she died of congestive heart failure which had been brewing for a while, and looking back she may very well have been hypothyroid, but neither my vet nor I knew to check. Her main claim to fame was her questionable temperament. One of the reasons I get so buggy on this issue now I guess. I think we all live and learn to some degree. It's really up to OESCA in this country to educate people as to the breed and I think with the improvements they're making on the website and the addition of the OES health website, they're reaching out to people who may be interested in the breed the best way they know how. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: The AKC serves the purpose it was meant to serve.
I am not sure what that is. It is just that so many people think of it as the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. So the backyard breeders love to use it. |
SheepieMommy wrote: Mad Dog wrote: The AKC serves the purpose it was meant to serve. I am not sure what that is. It is just that so many people think of it as the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. So the backyard breeders love to use it. It's a registry - the keeper of pedigrees. It does other things, of course, including the creation of the Canine Health Foundation which many breed clubs rely on in many ways. But in and of itself AKC registration means nothing more than the dog in question is a purebred OES. And even that seems questionable some times We had a rescue who came with papers DNA tested for breed; we couldn't believe she was a purebred OES as she looked like a poodle mix, but she came back OES. Registration with the AKC is not contingent upon any health nor breed type criteria. The best you can do is educate people on that count. But ultimately it's up to the individual to their homework. The information is out there.
Kristine |
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