not sure of the breeder
Having said all that my question is, is there a way I can find out if I am getting a good puppy? Should I call the vet and ask him any questions about the parents of this puppy? Is there a way I can research on the history of this breeder and her past sales of puppies? I love the puppy and want keep it, but do not want to set myself up for an unhealthy situation. Any advise on what I should do would be greatly appreciated! |
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| It doesn't sound like an ideal situation. I wouldn't accept a vet's word that the hips and eyes are good-- they should have proof of OFA and CERF. Do you know how old the parents are? |
| This one's simple: find another breeder.
You're asking the right questions. Nice work! If you're not getting the answers you want, what more do you really need to know? The line about not dealing with aggressive tendencies alone - that's a new one for me - should be a huge red flag. If you tell us what country you're in, someone should be able to point you in the right direction. And welcome! Kristine |
| Erggg, I hate to lose that depost. I know she told me the father was 3 and I think the mother dog is around that age too. We live in PA. |
Mad Dog wrote: The line about not dealing with aggressive tendencies alone - that's a new one for me - should be a huge red flag. Kristine Actually my Newf breeder has a similar line - and when you think about it considering aggression is very often the result of environment its ntotoo surprising - although she will take the dog back no matter what. It just isn't part of the guarantee. |
Mad Dog wrote: The line about not dealing with aggressive tendencies alone - that's a new one for me - should be a huge red flag.
I agree with Kristine on this one! The fact that this breeder has this listed in her contract makes me think that they have had problems before. OES SHOULD NOT HAVE AGGRESSIVE TENDENCIES! If the breeder is from PA, there is another member on this forum who bought a pup from a backyard breeder in PA, and the dog has some behavioral issues. Please check out the OESCA breeder referral: http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamer ... ectory.htm If you consider purchasing a puppy through one of the OESCA members, you should call versus email. |
| I may or may not be the one VerveUp is talking about,
but if the breeder is near Shippensburg - walk away. We have several breeders here in PA that you don't want to be involved with. (that's certainly not to say there aren't any good ones, no offense intended to anyone) If you want to PM me with a name I can tell you if it's that "breeder" Shellie |
| We were in the same situation as you were. We had put down a deposit and then started getting a lot of red flags about the breeder we were looking at. I thought that we were going to have to chalk up losing the deposit as a learning experience. Thankfully we got the deposit back due to her saying the parents hips had been checked out when they hadn't on her web site. |
| I would let your deposit go and find another breeder.... doesn't sound like a good situation to me. |
| My 2 cents...
The loss of a deposit is better than a lifetime of medical bills and heart ache. |
You can also pm me too. We have 2 byb in our area always churning out pups. When you brought up temperment issues, it made me think of one of them, and also of the sire and bitch are around that age. Pm me, and if its either one I will tell you to RUN  |
| You can see what the consensus is. Better to lose a deposit in the long run. You need to feel comfortable with the person you are buying from. And some "breeders" are really good sales people & can make you feel that way. ASK questions. Lots of them. Ask to see, in person, health certifications on the parents. Official ones..not just notes from the vet. If the "breeder" appears to not have the time to answer your questions or makes you feel like your questions are stupid then find someone else. There are times people call me & I can't talk right at that time. I explain that to them & call them back later when I have the time to answer their questions without distractions. Any breeder who will not take what they breed back but will only help you find another home for it.....I'd run from. Yes, they can help you find another home but in the meantime they should be willing to take the dog back into their fold. Rehoming dogs doesn't happen overnight. |
cautious wrote: Erggg, I hate to lose that depost. I know she told me the father was 3 and I think the mother dog is around that age too. We live in PA.
I have to agree with the concensus here. This is a very poor presentation of a so called breeder and you would be far better off to loose your deposit and look elsewhere, even if you have to wait an extended period. I know this seems cold hearted and even calculating, especially since you love one of these puppies and every one of them needs and rightly deserves a good and loving forever home, but you are standing yourself into huge, enormous gigantic risks, both financially and emotonally. You might also be standing yourself and family members into physical danger. All the hallmarks of a BYB or small scale puppy mill are here and while there are occassions where people, even here, have had good luck with byb or puppy mill prodgency the probability is that there is going to be some sort of physical or mental health issue with this puppy. And whatever "return policy" the "breeder" may have few people can give up a furkid after several years of parenting. You love them too much and will do almost anything at any cost to help them get better - problems rarely show up within 10 days of sale and even hip dysplasia can take years to manifest itself. As presented these elements of this "guaranttee" are completely worthless. While many people think having both parents on site and meeting them is great this can be a sign of a poor breeding programme as well. There is a finite risk, even substantial risk, that these two dogs are repeatedly bred. This is not only a sentence to an oppressive and exceedigly hard life for the bitch it often perpetuates not only the good but also the bad of their progeny. Even the sires can and often do suffer in such a situation. Beyond the potential health issues the contract clause about not helping with dogs displaying aggressive tendencies is really really scary. This clause wouldn't be there if there wasn't at least one previous incident of aggression from this "breeder's kennel". They are protecting themsleves, not you and your family. Do you want to take the chance that your puppy could be a repeat of this problem. You haven't said anything about your family but if there are children in your house this isn't even just a "red flag" it should be a definitive "no-go" issue. The deposit money you loose now will almost certainly be paid back many times over the puppy's life and equally certainly you will be saved the anguish of watching a beloved family member's unnecessary suffering, either from an illness directly or the treatment of that illness. There are no guaranttees either way. But dealing with a proactive, probing, quality reputable breeder will reduce your risk and has long since proven to be the best odds for having a rewarding happy life with a healthy responsive and well mannered furkid. Good luck. Please keep us informed. Thanks and Cheers Carl |
| What you should do is, ask for your deposit back, that you are not happy with the contract and that you need to see proof of OFA and CERF What she garantees is like a 2nd hand car dealer. I don't ever take a deposit for a puppy Edy cautious wrote: Hello, I am new here and have a question. We recently decided we wanted a OES puppy and found a breeder in our area. Two days ago we went to see the puppies and immediatly fell in love and decided to put the deposit down. Now that I am researching more into getting a puppy from a breeder I am concerned that I should have done more research on this breeder. I am afraid they are a breeder that may just be into it for the money. The place seemed nice and clean and the mother and father dogs were there for us to meet, but I was surprised the breeder did not ask us anything about the home that this new puppy would be going to. I did ask if the hip and eye tests were done and she indicated they were but after questioning her again via e-mail she is telling me her vet has checked her dogs but has nothing to certify that this was done. She did give me the name of the vet which is in my area. She has now sent me a copy of the contract that I will sign when getting the puppy and it states there is a guarentte for the heatlh of this puppy within 10 days after the sale and a one year genetic hip dysplasia guarentee. At the end of the contract she indicates that they will not take back the puppy if something were to happen to the puppy that I could not keep this puppy but she would help find a home for the puppy. Also at the end of the contract she mentions that we cannot help with animals that show aggressive tendencies. Having said all that my question is, is there a way I can find out if I am getting a good puppy? Should I call the vet and ask him any questions about the parents of this puppy? Is there a way I can research on the history of this breeder and her past sales of puppies? I love the puppy and want keep it, but do not want to set myself up for an unhealthy situation. Any advise on what I should do would be greatly appreciated! |
Quote: I don't ever take a deposit for a puppy
The breeder we got our puppy from last year doesn't accept deposits either. No commitment from the seller to sell a puppy and no commitment from the buyer to buy one. She explained she does this so if either decides a puppy from the litter isn't the right fit, they can always change their minds. This allows the breeder to get to know the family that will be buying their puppy. It can be scary waiting months for puppies to arrive and get to the age they can go to new homes, not knowing if one of those precious little pups will be yours. BUT this allows the breeder to place a puppy in a home that is best for the puppy first and foremost. |
| We never ask for a deposit until we have met & talked with potential new owners a few times & then ONLY after we have puppies on the ground & something we know those people are looking for (such as a companion male or a show potential female etc.) |
| [b]I see this more as a matter of trust, if I promise a puppy to people they will get a puppy unless THEY change their minds( which just happened with the remark from the other party that I did not take a depostit and my answer was, "that is the reason why I dfo not take depostis" so people are not forced in buying a puppy they really do not want and my babies are too important[/b]
Edy 6Girls wrote: Quote: I don't ever take a deposit for a puppy The breeder we got our puppy from last year doesn't accept deposits either. No commitment from the seller to sell a puppy and no commitment from the buyer to buy one. She explained she does this so if either decides a puppy from the litter isn't the right fit, they can always change their minds. This allows the breeder to get to know the family that will be buying their puppy. It can be scary waiting months for puppies to arrive and get to the age they can go to new homes, not knowing if one of those precious little pups will be yours. BUT this allows the breeder to place a puppy in a home that is best for the puppy first and foremost. |
| I think no-deposits-accepted benefits the dogs and it shows that both of you're breeding programs are about the dogs first . It's impossible to get to know someone in just a couple of conversations. I've learned that people will often tell you what they know you want to hear. Little things can come out in conversations that may be red flags and you don't want to be committed to selling one of your puppies to someone simply because of a $200 deposit you've accepted.
Not taking deposits also says that you have enough people waiting for a quality dog that you don't need any financial commitment. It encourages people to really consider whether they're ready to bring a dog into their family and no-deposit makes it ok for them to change their minds. After all, this is what should be a 10-15 year commitment. Just my thinking from my position as a buyer but also someone who assists rescues... |
| Marley was shipped to me before we ever sent a dollar to the breeders - but that was a somewhat different situation - I have put deposits on other puppies - one I managed to get returned after a health issue surfaced. |
6Girls wrote: I think no-deposits-accepted benefits the dogs and it shows that both of you're breeding programs are about the dogs first . It's impossible to get to know someone in just a couple of conversations. I've learned that people will often tell you what they know you want to hear. Little things can come out in conversations that may be red flags and you don't want to be committed to selling one of your puppies to someone simply because of a $200 deposit you've accepted.
Not taking deposits also says that you have enough people waiting for a quality dog that you don't need any financial commitment. It encourages people to really consider whether they're ready to bring a dog into their family and no-deposit makes it ok for them to change their minds. After all, this is what should be a 10-15 year commitment. Just my thinking from my position as a buyer but also someone who assists rescues... Yes, when you're looking for a puppy you have to talk, talk, talk and talk. It's a lot of work, but breeders have to be ready for this process. For a buyer, that's when you learn about the breeder, his or her knowledge, seriousness and intent. This process also easily filters out the puppy millers. For the breeder, talking filters out those who are unready and are only seeking the pup out of initial excitement but lack realistic expectations of what this long-term commitment to a puppy entails. I had problem with a champion breeder once, that he seemed more interested in a deposit, before he was willing to answer my questions or let me see the puppies and parents. |
| I do take deposits, that are applied to the purchase price. But not until I have puppies on the ground and know what i have that are going to go and what is going to stay. I have invested a lot of my time when it comes to getting around to doing deposit and contract time, and that guarantees they will get a pup. If they choose to not take the pup, it is forfited as i would have turned down a lot of other potential homes by that time.
I didn't used to take a deposit and I had another breeder around me have people call me up and everything sounded good and yes they definately wanted a pup etc. Comes time to have people come see pups etc and OH we don't want one of yours now, we got one elsewhere. This happend with 4 people on one litter... I have put out time and money talking to these people thinking i had good homes lined up. I dont' have whole kennel staffs to take care of my dogs, feeding and cleaning up after them and bathing and brushing them. I do all my own dogs. Same as my show dogs, I take care of them grooming them myself, not hired help. Now, if i know you, or if you've had a pup from me before this, that is a whole different story. We are already connected and no i don't. I don't breed but every 3 or 4 years. I don't take a waiting lists. What i have when they are here are what it is. Once i have invested time in getting to know you via the phone, internet whatever then that is what it is. I just got tired of being burned. To each their own. What works for one is right for them. The main thing i see is making sure all the health testing is done on both the parents, how long does the breeders keep the pups for? Thats a big one i heard of people letting them go too early. I also give the prospective person references of my other pup owners to get in touch with. I'm very open about this. I think Sheepieshake and Wendy both will vouch for me on this one. My litters are planned out 2 or 3 generations to come sometimes, as i said, I breed for ME and not just because i have a bitch that is in season. My girls have 3 litters and that is it. They are then spayed. Usually for the most part, all dogs live out their lives here with me unless there is a strong reason why not, and only then are they let to go to a good home that really wants one. And i hate letting each and every one go, but if it is because of something i have no control over (such as when 2 bitches decided they were going to kill each other they just didnt like each other anymore at site) and I do not have kennel runs.......everyone lives lose in my home, it was better to up the station of one to another life in another home, it is tearful and gutwrenching for me on each and every one. But i know it is for the betterment of the dogs life, no matter what the age. I am also limited in the number of dogs i can have at my home by a stupid HOA. So this has to be taken into account as well. |
| Where are you in PA? There are several of us in Central PA that can help you out. There really aren't too many good breeders in this state. You have to be VERY careful because there are some very bad BYB people who have no clue and are churning out dogs with health problems and bad temperaments.
Better to lose a deposit at this point than have to shell out thousands of dollars in health care down the road. Definitely let one of us know where you are so we can point you in the right direction. |
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