Breeders topic? Should we do it and how should we conduct it
Have you decided whether it is wise to add a breeding section? I would love to see it and I think the conversation would be healthy and informative. Folks could learn about the OFA, and other open database projects that are there for the betterment of the breed / breeds. We could post links to research articles. Genectic prediction modeling. Breeding out hip displasia, deafness etc.. We could discuss Sweden, Finland and Germany and their success with open databases and breeding programs. Their AKC equivalent only accepts properly screened pairs. We could discuss the experiments with Dalmations and the affect of the merle gene. We could possibly influince our AKC to adopt similar practices. We could discuss exciting topics like progesterone testing, ovulation, hip angulation and its affect on hip dispalsia, health verses show standards, the lifespan of fresh sperm VS frozen or chilled, how to achieve large litter sizes, skin pigmentation and color as it relates to the merle gene and deafness, the cost associated with a litter of pups and breeding, who knows we may even find a proper mate for that special potential sire or dam. I like that VS stud and bitch I just can't say it outloud I got my mouth washed out with soap to many times as a young man. Any way I think we could have an intelligent discussion and even advertise a litter of pups if they met the eventual established crteria set by the group. After all how many breeders out there even the ones registered with the AKC or the OESCA have done the proper ancesteral screening that is the standard in other countries. And after all shouldn't we set the standard for the rest of America and isn't this the place to start it and finish it. Play the Star Spangled Banner here or the anthem of your choice. Thanks and hope to see the Breeders discussion. Chris Fuller, Rogers Dad |
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| Chris, it sounds like you might be interested in joining another group I belong to, it is called The Canine Genetic Diversity Project. It is mostly doctors,vets, geneticists and other scientists, however there are also breeders and a few pet owners who are interested.
http://www.canine-genetics.com/Default.htm |
| I will check it out, I am very interested in all that technical stuff, it's what I thrive on. My interest is breeding an exceptional quality health wise that may fit the conformation standard. Just an interest right now but as I have said before I am looking for another pup, a girl. Roger has not had his hips OFA certified yet. In July he turns 2. His mother was certified excellent as well as some relatives, several were in the good range, I have blocked out any fairs if there were any. As I find a champion I will look them up on the OFA website by name or if a kennel advertises a pup I look them and theor heritage up. It is hard to find excellent ratings you find allot of goods, but they are all using the OFA standard not the PennHip method. I will look until I find excellent in the bloodline and try to aquire a pup who's parents have also met conformation standards. At that point I may move forward with breeding. with or without Roger. |
| Thank you for posting about this group! I find the whole genetic routine fascinating (AND confusing!!) and even for non-breeders like me, it's great info! I will definitely use any info learned on checking out my "future" puppy!
Thanks!! Cathy |
| Hi Chris! Nice to hear about someone doing their homework, with regards to bloodlines. I'm in the same boat right now, as I try to find a pup from solid quality lines- although I'm not considering breeding, or confirmation work. Have you been doing any conformation or other competitive work with Roger? He's a lovely boy, by the way! I would love to see more discussions on the "serious" side of ownership- as far as competition etc goes. I find all that absoultely fascinating!
Karen  |
| Roger and I are in the local AKC practice sessions right now. I have not showed before or would that be shown. In the group though, there are more experienced competitors, very friendly, than novices. All of the dogs are novices and this is the place to them acclimated to the ring, applause, lights people etc. Roger is doing very good in the practice. One incident did freak him out, they opened one of those movable walls he really wasn't sure what to think and concentrated on it for a few minutes. Another good thing from the practice is I got to be the judge for a while, looking at teeth feeling legs and butts I mean the dogs, etc. The volunteer judge had 5 of her own dogs there and needed a fill in.
I have found several really good breeders with good bloodlines and good to excellent hips etc., I have not found a bloodline that has all excellent hip ratings. I will be happy to share the one's I have found. Just pm me. I don't mind listing them on the site I'm not sure how Ron wants this handled and I yield to him. I also don't want to be held liable if I am wrong, you know an expert is only a fool 20 miles from home. What I do is when I inquire about puppies I ask about the lineage. I go to the OESCA and look up kennels that have bread champions and how many. Then I go to the OFA website look up the sire and dam and select vertical pedigree you can then look back as many generations as have been tested by clicking on the last dog / dogs listed. Soooo, champions equal conformation and vertical pedigree will reveal the health ratings. What I have found at best is excellent then good then excellent, it looks like excellent skips a generation with most lines, I can not find a line with two excellents in a row. If I get into breeding this will be my goal, to meet the conformation standard and establish a line with sequintial excellent ratings hip, eye etc. At this point I have not done enough research to understand the skips and prediction models. I have 2 piesces of genitic software that is supposed to be able to run the predictions in a very scientific way. But you know how mother nature is. Anyway, the end result is to develope a perfect specimen that will fullfill the following, sit on the couch with grace, lick your face with good breath, get as many compliments as possible and most important jet-head with style. Yours truly, Chris Fuller |
| Glad I'm not the only research nut- I've been doing exactly the same thing! Looking at who has been placing champions- how many they've placed, how recently, etc. Then checking out OFA to see what they're testing for and how they came out. I LOVE that OFA site! I don't know if you'll be able to find any pups with completely excellent genetic hip history? You're right- lots of goods (Nice to see that the more active kennels are coming out with the good scores, and are testing a lot of their dogs) not many excellents.
It's great to here about Roger's and your experience with confirmation training. How cool to get to try out being a judge- what a great way to learn more about what a judge is looking for- getting your hands on the dogs and learning what to look for in comparison to the standard! Awesome! (Oh dear, I'm afraid you've revved up my sheepie showing bug. Looks like I'll have to watch westminster to get my fix!) Karen |
| If only all breeders put in the amount of effort that you are.... it is so nice to see.
Now for a bit of a brag, my girls do have mostly excellent, and some goods for hip ratings in their lines, and many sections do have multiple excellents in a row |
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