Armour plated rear
I am currently strugling with Archies general hip area, his hair is almost like barbed wire, very coarse indeed, making it quite difficult to get to the undercoat and the perpetual almost daily generated matts. Is this coarseness normal, is it possible his coat is about to change. He has never been clipped back, but gets regular brushing and line grooming. The poor pup is getting fed up, and I have had my fair share of rear feet accross my face. I really don't want to clip him down, but some days................  |
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| The coarser coats do tend to mat up more easily IMO, BUT... and please please don't take offense.... in the pics I just looked at it kind of looks like maybe the grooming you're doing isn't getting right to skin level?
He looks like maybe he has the felted kind of matting close to the skin and then only the hair away from the skin is getting brushed? |
| I keep my sheepie on the softer side as I find it so much easier to keep the undercoat, I use Groomers detangle shampoo along with show Seasons detangle spray that can be used on dry or wet coats works better on the latter.
Using the above will save you hours of grooming and the need to clip him down. This is the same as I use in my salon. Val |
| no offence taken on the brushing comments, I do get down to the skin, I'll upload one I have just taken from his rump to show |
I have the same problem with Tiggy. I've always thought it was because she's got a hairy erm, a--- and on top of that she sits/lays on it a lot.  She also has a preferred side for laying on and that side's always more matted.
I use a leave in detangler as I groom too. I have on the odd occasion cheated and used a comb to remove matts and take out a tensie bit of undercoat. I'm not showing Tiggy so if it makes our lives easier then its a good thing. I totally feel you're pain, Tiggy gives me the old one, two with her back feet on a regular basis. Then her head pops up of the table with a very reproachfull "you're pulling Mum, lay off already" look on her face.  |
| The course coat is proper. Grooming to the skin might be the problem. Carl Lindon has a photo essay on proper line grooing to the skin.
Have a look at this thread for help and guidence http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=11885 OES should have a good hard course coat as that is normal for them as per the standard.  Matting could be mature coat breaking through but I find the softer coat more of a challenge then the crisp course coats when changing/tansitiioning. So I would question wether you are line grooming properly to the skin? Sorry hope you dont mind my comments? |
| I have used his guide since being on this site.
Guides are fine - co-operative sheepies are another thing - I have to cope with about an hours time maximum before Archie either kicks me or steals the brush out of my hand!
So I have to do him in parts - sometimes I am lucky and can get two sessions in one day but normally when the brushes come out or the table he hides in his cage! and I don't persue it further, other days he'll try and climb on the table.
Yes maybe I am doing it wrong, but his front half doesn't present much of a problem. Not a very good shot from my camera phone 
one thing with his coat which I am trying to alter by switching his diet (when suppliers actually have in stock what you want!) his coat is incredibally waxy - obviously good for water proofing him, not so helpful when brushing as it really bonds the under coat together. I am not going to give in and persist, small steps steady as she goes. |
| The waxy description made me think of something-
Last fall the last of Chewie's puppy coat (at age 2+) was coming out on his back. I noticed this nasty, waxy stuff. It reminded me of a severe case of cradle cap that human babies can get (not sure of the term for cradle cap in your part of the world). With very careful, nit picky grooming and bathing the area to wash it away, it did pass. Just a thought.... |
| It is very much like cradle cap - we speakie da inglish here too sort of like waxy dandruff!
his table and me is normally covered in the stuff, my breeder suggested his food was possibly to rich (he was on Purina Pro Plan Puppy food still) we are switching to James Wellbeloved Adult - but had a hiccup in supplies! so actually is finishing of what is left of the puppy food. I don't bath Archie very often (and then mainly when he has a mucky rear) - oooh bad man his coat is nigh on impossible to get wet - we tried he didn't like it - although he loves the river the rain etc!
Maybe I should try a bath or two over the next few weeks and see if it helps the waxyness? (why do I have visions of megamatts?) Thankfully he is a pet and not a show dog! he'd run away |
| If he is brushed out first I would try bathing him with palmolive dish soap to really get the coat clean. Then brush while you're blow drying him, I think you'll be pleased with the results.
To help with getting the coat thoroughly wet, try adding some of the soap to a bucket of water and dump it on him in the tub and work it in, you might have to do this a few times. |
| Bathing Tiggy really helped!! I suspect I had a nice combination of skin oil mixed with dust in the undercoat which was acting like a glue.
I was surprised at how much easier she was to line brush after her bath. I didnt even get to remove all the matts before her bath as she decided to roll in poop at the park.  But it was still easier to brush her.  |
Cor blimey I'm not looking forward to that  Sounds like you are having erm... fun.. with Archie!
Have you tried having someone gently hold him down while you are grooming? Greg always sits at Ru's head end so he can hold Ru when needed. If Ru struggles, I stop for a while and keep him lying down while I stroke him and he settles back into being groomed. From your photo I think you are getting to the skin, Ru's sides at the tops of his legs are the same, I'm anticipating a long grooming session today with the same area. I've not noticed any of the waxy residue, but Ru's coat seems to be a little behind Archie's. Ru's coat is also almost impossible to get wet. Our bathroom is at the back of the house and I pull the hose through the window as we don't have a shower. The hose attachment has a variable nozzle so I can get a strong stream of water to rinse him with. For applying shampoo and conditioner I use a 3 litre pressure pump spray bottle which has a gentle but strong spray, really saves a lot of energy and gets the shampoo right to the skin, I dilute the shampoo and conditioner first so he doesn't get too soapy. I have found conditioning to be a life saver, I use Aussie's 3 Minute Miracle, put lots on and leave for 3 minutes then rinse. For me, once dry, the brush goes through that area like a hot knife through butter. Ru is due a bath now and I find that area increasingly difficult as we approach bath time but I don't want to over-bath him. Aussie's leave-in conditioner helps between baths (every 8 weeks or so)... BUT I guess Archie's coat is different so I don't know. Have you tried fairy liquid to shampoo with? I don't know if it would be too harsh but surely it would get rid of the waxy stuff? |
I groom alone 
I am taking all these washing tips on board, our bathroom is upstairs and Archie hates having a bath, it is quite a struggle to convince him to come upstairs
How about using DAZ for that bluey whiteness --- it's a Joke honest!
Maybe I should buy a tub and bath him in the garden? I am jealous of you guys who have swimming pools, maybe a jacuzzi would be a good way to wash I could get in with him? Joking aside how long does it take you guys to actually get his coat wet, not surface wet but really wet that the shampoo is doing something, last time we bathed him, I admit to giving up after an hour and rinsed him off. Maybe I should take the shampoo with me to the river or the ford? |
| Thats why George goes to the groomers for a bath and brush out! |
Quote: Thats why George goes to the groomers for a bath and brush out!
Good point! I think you might live close enough to Valb? She's a professional sheepie groomer in Dorchester (you got space for more work Val?) |
| Wow 1 hour in the tub
It does take a while to get Tiggy wet to the skin especially around her lower back and hips. I just get her as wet as possible then start with a little bit of shampoo then wet her some more. Usually it takes two lots of shampoo and water sometimes three. I think the shampoo helps by getting the oil out so the water can penetrate. I feel your pain Tiggy hates a bath too. Lately the stubborn Miss has been bolting for the bedroom. Last bath I had to climb on the bed to get her off the pillows and then I carried her to the bath as NO WAY was she winning the no bath battle. Luckily Tiggy's only around 30kg and I weight lift at the gym. |
| Well I did try bathing him.
He hid in his cage soon as he heard the tap running upstairs for starters! until Cathy went and rang the door bell off he shot!
Eventually when he was in the bath room it only took me 25 minutes to get him in the bath! Then I tried to wash and shampoo him - he was a little dirty the water did turn brown but not very dark, I tried to get him drenched I even had him lie down in the water whilst I agitated his coat when he stands up stand up, pull the coat apart yup it's dry under the surface! I carried on I used shampoo - a teatree based dog one for itchy and flakey skin etc you rub it in even in large amounts next to no lather - we are in a hard water area - that may be why? I kept this up for about 40 minutes, to the point where the big wet thing is trying to climb out of the bath and shake dry - I had drained the bath by this point - not much residue of dirt at all, I rinsed and rinsed - he decides enough is enough and major shake down time!
I'll see what bearing this has on brushing him later (I know there are a few largish mats on his inner rear legs - I didn't detect any more at the time. We went out in the garden so he could run about and shake off a bit more Some of the post bath soggy doggy http://archiepup.fotopic.net/c1684320.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvt9DCH8Z9s One bonus I smell lovely! |
| Archie's got such a cute face!!
After all that effort I hope it helps with the brushing. He and Tiggy have been comparing notes re bath time behaviour. When its warm I wear my bathers to bath Tiggy as I end up nearly as wet as her after all the shaking. Once I've finished drying her off a bit I dry the walls off and hope the ceilings not wet enough to drip on us.
Its a bit late to ask now but did you use conditioner? I use an oatmeal for itchy skin conditioner as it seems to help with matting as well. Sorry I didnt mention it before. |
| I didn't use conditioner
I want to see if there is any difference just by washing firstly, and I really don't think he would have stayed put after rinsing the shampoo for me to fuss him any further I currently ahve a soft fluffy pup aslepp at my feet.
I was waiting for him to dry properly before brushing him that will now be in the morning (here in the UK) his rear has dried in layers almost like matts but not quite. |
| Did you blow dry him? |
| You should of blowed dried him after the shake down outside even with a human hand dryer to make sure he does not stay damp at skin level. He will stay damp at Skin level with all his coat he has got without drying him also and the undercoat now will felt like crazy being left damp . |
Quote: the undercoat now will felt like crazy being left damp .
Oh, that sounds like a really good tip. I'm going to try to blow dry Ru next time and see if it's easier to brush him. I have to agree, unless your house is really warm, I doubt he will be dry by the morning, I usually leave Ru 2 days to completely dry off. I love the pics and the video, his nose looks really huge I just want to kiss it! |
| Archie was only running around outside to get the excess off rather than rub him down with a towel, he was treated to playing with the hair drier, equal fun to the vacuum I also have a dehumidifier running.
The result after washing him, most of him lovely and soft and fluffy, his rump was Briar Sheepie - more so for washing I feel. He then went out with my wife Sunday morning and played in the fields, yup guess who had great fun getting mucky |
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