OES Health Survey
http://www.keysurvey.com/survey/211252/2567/ If you've owned a purebred OES in the past ten years, they need your help. It doesn't matter where in the world you reside, where you got your dog, whether or not his or her pedigree is known, if he or she is registered or not or if he or she never had a single health issue (which is wonderful and which also needs to be included in the statistics). What matters is that we get as accurate a picture of the breed as a whole in order for the OESCA Health & Research committee to be able to determine which health issues are most pressing and what research projects they should recommend the club support. The survey will come to a close in May, so if you haven't participated yet, please do so as soon as possible. It could be another 5 or possibly even 10 years before the club conducts another survey. The survey is online, anonymous and very user-friendly. For those of you who have already graciously taken the time to participate, the breed thanks you, as does OESCA and especially the Health & Research Committee, which is dependant on your help in this matter. If you haven't taken part yet, please don't put it off any longer. Permission to crosspost and to forward to other OES owners. Thank you, Kristine Loland OESCA Health Survey subcommittee member |
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| Thanks, Kristine, for this reminder. I'm putting together the first newsletter for our rescue group right now. I had planned on putting this info in it.
On the subject of breed health, I've got a question. 
I had an interesting conversation with my vet yesterday. I had to take the wigglebums in for their annual wellness exam and my vet, who adores both of them, remarked again about Beau's size. He just can't get over what a big boy he is. So, I said, "Yes and if I'd known then what I know now, I never would've have had him neutered so young. I would've waited until his growth plates closed." (He was neutered at 6.5 months.) We've discussed this often on this board and I've heard it discussed in other OES circles. There seems to be a general concensus that this is true. However, I don't know of any actual research on the topic. Is there any? Has anything been done inside the breed health research to verify this data? Is there a broad enough sampling to make an accurate survey? I ask for my own edification and education, but also because my vet said the all breed research does not support it (which I knew). I'd just like to read it for myself if anyone knows of a source with data. Thanks!!  |
| Tammy, there are genetically tall dogs within the breed and Beau could be one of them. There's no height limit - tall dogs are fine and, if one cares about such things, perfectly within standard.
I know Kathy has pondered if Murphy's near IW size is due to early neutering  , but the effects tend not to be that extreme. He is probably genetically a big boy, and that's OK. In fact, it's not sheer size that is of concern. And even if he wasn't, so what if your dog grows up to be taller than his genetics dictate, as long as he's healthy? But that's not necessarily the end of it.
The dynamics are as follows: dogs continue to grow as long as their growth plates are open (and there are different growth plates that affect different parts of the skeletal structure and close at different times). The growth plates take their cues from hormones. When you castrate/perform an a ovariohysterectomy on a dog/bitch you remove sex hormones. In turn, the growth plates stay open longer than they would naturally. So what happens is that, depending on how early you desex them, you can end up with dogs that grow in peculiar ways. This isn't anything new. Performance people have known this for some time and performance minded vets have supported us. See Christine Zink DVMs article Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete, 2005 http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html As she said, this is just one vet's opinion on the muscular-skeletal effects of desexing (she also touches on cancer and behavioral issues). She wasn't so much concerned with the effects on the general pet population, but for the health of working dogs because of the athleticism we ask of them. She, and more recently Laura Sanborn ( http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTerm ... InDogs.pdf) who compiled existing research on the effects of gonadectomies more generally, both use, in part, a 1991 study for the basis of their discussion: Salmeri KR, Bloomberg MS, Scruggs SL, Shille V. Gonadectomy in immature dogs: Effects on skeletal, physical, and behavioral development, JAVMA, Vol 198, No. 7, April 1991. Zink quotes the following in part from the above research paper in her article: A study by Salmeri et al in 1991 found that bitches spayed at 7 weeks grew significantly taller than those spayed at 7 months, who were taller than those not spayed (or presumably spayed after the growth plates had closed).(1) A study of 1444 Golden Retrievers performed in 1998 and 1999 also found bitches and dogs spayed and neutered at less than a year of age were significantly taller than those spayed or neutered at more than a year of age.(2) The sex hormones, by communicating with a number of other growth-related hormones, promote the closure of the growth plates at puberty (3), so the bones of dogs or bitches neutered or spayed before puberty continue to grow. Dogs that have been spayed or neutered well before puberty can frequently be identified by their longer limbs, lighter bone structure, narrow chests and narrow skulls. This abnormal growth frequently results in significant alterations in body proportions and particularly the lengths (and therefore weights) of certain bones relative to others. For example, if the femur has achieved its genetically determined normal length at 8 months when a dog gets spayed or neutered, but the tibia, which normally stops growing at 12 to 14 months of age continues to grow, then an abnormal angle may develop at the stifle. In addition, with the extra growth, the lower leg below the stifle likely becomes heavier (because it is longer), and may cause increased stresses on the cranial cruciate ligament. In addition, sex hormones are critical for achieving peak bone density.(4) These structural and physiological alterations may be the reason why at least one recent study showed that spayed and neutered dogs had a higher incidence of CCL rupture.(5) Another recent study showed that dogs spayed or neutered before 5 1/2 months had a significantly higher incidence of hip dysplasia than those spayed or neutered after 5 1/2 months of age, although it should be noted that in this study there were no standard criteria for the diagnosis of hip dysplasia.(6) Nonetheless, breeders of purebred dogs should be cognizant of these studies and should consider whether or not pups they bred were spayed or neutered when considering breeding decisions. My OES breeder vet castrated one of her own pet puppies at a young age (4 mos I think it was) to ensure new owner desexing compliance. He was later returned to her, and she kept him. He looks like nothing else in that litter (I'm sure she's not the first serious breeder to later see a puppy they bred and who was desexed early and say: "I bred THAT???"  ) -- very rangy. He's had CCL surgeries for bilateral ruptures.
Her own experiences, as well as that of clients, prompted her to look more closely at existing research. She's subsequently started recommending that her LARGE BREED clients wait to desex their puppies ideally till growth plates have closed for those who do performance, and at least wait till the dog is a year old for the rest. If I ever lure her down to Sheepiepalooza (she's getting married around that time this year, so unlikely) you can discuss it with her yourself. Or catch her at one of the National Specialties. There's one headed your way in the not too distant future 
Some vets apparently feel that overall population control is more important than the individual dog, and continue to recommend desexing earlier rather than later whatever the known increased health risks to the individual dog, because preventing unwanted litters is their priority and you can't blame them. But as an owner you have to educate yourself and make the overall most responsible decision for your situation and your dog. And thanks for adding the health survey information in your Rescue newsletter  Greatly appreciated!
Kristine |
| I think I do have an oddity. Carl wasn't neutered until he was 1 and a half or 2 years old and for everyone that's seen him, he's enormous. He grew insanely fast, it felt like he got bigger every time you took him out of the crate! It also seemed that he got taller after the surgery. He is not a good sheepdog (He's a great Carl!) but he doesn't look like his BYB parents either. Mom was small, dad was bigger but looked like Carl in a smaller package. I remember having a similar discussion years ago when Carl was little, er younger , and all I can think now is what would have happened if I had neutered him young? |
Maxmm wrote: I think I do have an oddity. Carl wasn't neutered until he was 1 and a half or 2 years old and for everyone that's seen him, he's enormous. He grew insanely fast, it felt like he got bigger every time you took him out of the crate! It also seemed that he got taller after the surgery. He is not a good sheepdog (He's a great Carl!) but he doesn't look like his BYB parents either. Mom was small, dad was bigger but looked like Carl in a smaller package. I remember having a similar discussion years ago when Carl was little, er younger
, and all I can think now is what would have happened if I had neutered him young?He and Murphy would be having pissing contests? Literally? Up telephone poles?????
What did you feed him? Miracle grow??? 
Kristine |
| You would think so! It was ridiculous. At puppy school, people accused me of bringing a different dog every week!
Having met Murphy, he has Carl beat in height but Carl has body on him. No matter what 'big' OES person comes to my house it is the same reaction when they meet Carl. Huge, wide eyes, open mouth, an OMG and then, "He is huge!" But give them a minute with Carl and everybody loves, loves, loves his personality. Like I've said before, he's a terrible sheepdog but he's the best Carl! |
| Thanks very much for the links to articles, Kristine. I really appreciate the information. I had heard this before, too
7) A study of 3218 dogs demonstrated that dogs that were neutered before a year of age had a significantly increased chance of developing bone cancer.(8) A separate study showed that neutered dogs had a two-fold higher risk of developing bone cancer. But, it's the first time I've read about the actual studies done. I'll read the second article more thoroughly when I get supper on. I just skimmed over it, but it looks very interesting, too. I do enjoy reading and educating myself of the health of my beloved sheepies. Thank God, Beau is healthy. I am grateful for that, of course, Like Mandy said about her Carl, he's not a very good example of a sheepie, but he is the best Beaureguard!!
I hate your friend can't make it down to Sheepiepalooza. I'd enjoy meeting her, I'm sure. |
| Thank you for growth articles Kristine.
I registered our dogs sometime in the fall in the survey. Rebecca has since developed the oral cancer. Is there someway to update a dog after you already registered them? Also, I am curious how many participants you have so far? |
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