Pin Brushes: Use and Limitations
In the "Dreaded Coat Change" thread forum member herbgirl noted that the pinbrush was ineffective on her Bobtail, Mardi, even when parting the coat for line grooming. I addressed a number of issues about the pin brush itself in that thread but have decided to open a new thread on actual pin brush use and limitations to allow those who may have skipped that thread an opportunity to review and offer further commentary. As I have noted several times over in my grooming forum posts when brushing an OES, pin brushes being used must be of the straight pin variety. Tipped pins, those with small spherical balls or nubs at the end of the pins, are devestating to an OES coat, stripping out undercoat and breaking the guard coat. Also the pins need to be about an inch long and mounted in a supple rubber pad. As such the pin brush is suitable for general grooming of most long haired breeds and is very effective in most matt-free grooming conditions. The combination of inch long pins and supple pads (Hindes and Safari orangy-red rubber pads or #1 All Systems black pads) allow us to groom through unmatted and even tight coat. They effectively part the coat to the skin and leave it laying in an uncompacted but defined sheet. When using a pin brush it is important to take small increments of ungroomed hair (ie close line spacing) and repeatedly brush over the same area. The small increments allow the groomer an opportunity to visually identify any knoted/matted or tight coat and hence readily isolate them for specific grooming remedy. Repeatedly brushing an identified "problem area" allows the groomer to gently encroach into the area without "grabbing" large areas of the matt/knot and work it out gently without upsetting the dog. In my line grooming photo essay I illusrated how to select and define a line and showed that process in several steps. What perhaps did not come across effectively was that in setting up that line I proceeded along the line in approximately 1/4 brush intervals. Hence for my large Hindes olbong pin brushes I draw out only about 1 1/2 inches of line at a time and will brush over that area 3-4 times before drawing out another 1 1/2 inch increment. Once the line is fully established I will go back over it brushing the coat anywhere up to 10 strokes per 1 1/2 inch increment. Use no more pressure than you would when brushing your own hair, if your brush pressure would push the pins unto your scalp uncomfortably then your dog is uncomfortable. And in view of the necessary brush stroke repetition excessive pressure will aggravate the skin causing it to flush with blood and become uncomfortably hot and irritated. Try to keep the plane of the brush handle and frame parallel to the surface of your dog's body, not the hair surface but the body shape surface. This keeps the maximum amount of pins in contact with the coat for the longest period possible which will reduce the number of strokes necessary to completely groom the area. If you introduce too much of an angle here only the "trailing edge pins" will be in contact with the dog placing higher pressures on the dog's skin and causing premature wear on the brush itself. Eventually of course the brush needs to depart the hair and complete a stroke. As you approach the end of the stroke keep the speed as even as possible. If the coat is tight and you are trying to force the brush through it there is a naturally tendency for the brush to speed up as the coat resistance diminshes. Too fast an exit from the coat can cause breakage and /or tearing the coat out at the roots. If this is happening reduce the line spacing and increase the amount of overlap between strokes. By doing this you are advancing on less "ungroomed" hair and reducing the load encountered by the brush and hence yourself. Control is restored and grooming is easier for both of you. (It is much less strenous on the groomer to take 20 light and small increment strokes to brush a given tight area than 4 or 5 large increment aggressive strokes.) Also avoid any sudden changes in direction, ie don't "flick" the brush out of the coat, either up or to either side. I have often refered to grooming as a gentle activity. It is the combination of relatively light pressures and a deliberate steady motion which in my opinion makes general line grooming gentle. Used in this manner a pin brush can be used to groom through most OES coats. Well groomed coats are easy and tight coats are readily corrected and rendered free of problems. With practise you can even remove many of the small soft "felt knots" encountered close to the skin. If you thoroughly brush your dogs every 3-4 days and they keep dry and relatively clean without excessive rough housing the pin brush should meet over 95% of your grooming needs. Pin brushes cannot however remove "true" knots or worse yet matts. (Knots versus matts is a question of degree and coverage, in my mind knots being smaller (less than 1 square inch) and less tight, matts being larger and generally much tighter.) I have posted in this forum under "Bobtail Matt Removal" for those nightmares!! Do NOT use a worn out pin brush. Those with bent pins or pins that sink into the pad readly and hence are not properly suspended will do more harm than good. They will, at the least, tear at the undercoat and break guard coat hair. In the worst case they will break up small knots and drop the knot debris throughout the coat causing more knoting. Hope this helps. Cheers Carl |
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| Carl,
First off, THANK YOU for the wonderful step-by-step instructions and illustrations! As many posters said, you could make a book of it. I know I'd buy two. One for myself, and one for our groomer. 
I used your method of brushing this weekend. (Maggy relaxed while watching the Super Bowl, as I groomed her and listened to the game -- OK, so I watched a little of the game too) 
What is your opinion of the combs with the rotating teeth for tangles in the OES coat? I found myself resorting to my comb with rotating teeth for some of her tangly areas. She seemed to tolerate the use of this comb better than the brush in some areas. Is the comb with rotating teeth OK to use? She looked like a million bucks when we were finished and she knew it! Maggy and I thank you!  |
| Nancy,
Thanks for your kind review of my post(s). In truth though the only "my" aspects of the line grooming methodology I describe are the nuances I have developed to suit myself and my dogs in particular. Line grooming is a widespread technique first taught to me by our family's Afghan breeder many years ago and updated in converstation and teachings from breeders and groomers too numerous to mention since. (The world of responsible breeders and exhibitors is full of helpful and selfless people - thanks to all of them.) My posts are an attempt to share that information and help less experienced or new OES parents through some of the unique challenges these wonderful gifts of joy present. A book would be a huge undertaking which I think is beyond my current ambitions and probably capabilities as well. What I may however look into over the next little while is an amatuer DVD presentation of grooming essentials if there is a demand and if I feel confident it can be done to a decent standard. Now to your specific question, The only combs I have seen with rotating tines are very fine - 20 tines per inch or more - and are generally sold as "flea combs". (The one you are referencing may well be diferent from those - perhaps you could post a picture for better review.) Anyway in my opinion very fine combs simply aren't necessary when grooming even a knoted/matted Bobtail. (I do have a fine toothed comb but I predominantly use it to remove "eye boogers" and the remnants of upset stomachs from the anal area. For matt removal they are simply too fine and end up stripping undercoat. Often that is not a concern to pet owners but certainly an issue when showing the dog.) The rotating tines would be less detrimental than a comb with fixed tines but is still more "firepower" than should be necessary with an OES. If the dog is matted and a pin brush cannot brush the knot/matt out the first dematting tool is my fingers!! Large knots and matts are first torn apart by hand to make them into lots of smaller knots which can then be prosecuted with a course tined comb and if necessary a series of increasingly fine combs and or a slicker brush. I described the full dematting procedure in the "Bobtail Matt Removal" thread. Cheers Carl |
| Awesome tips! When I was a groomer (and still), my two favorite brushes & combs to use were/are:
This comb gets matts out sooo easily. I bought it over 10 years ago and it's still like new: It's the one without the handle. http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.a ... E1PV7EDX49 and a good quality slicker brush. I have a blue curved wire slicker brush that I LOVE. It's all one piece so will never break. I've had it for 10 years also, and have brushed out the coats on animals from poodles to chows to samoyeds, etc... It's an awesome brush! When I get home (over my parent's house for the week), I'll look up who makes it. |
Carl Lindon wrote: Nancy, Thanks for your kind review of my post(s). In truth though the only "my" aspects of the line grooming methodology I describe are the nuances I have developed to suit myself and my dogs in particular. Line grooming is a widespread technique first taught to me by our family's Afghan breeder many years ago and updated in converstation and teachings from breeders and groomers too numerous to mention since. (The world of responsible breeders and exhibitors is full of helpful and selfless people - thanks to all of them.) My posts are an attempt to share that information and help less experienced or new OES parents through some of the unique challenges these wonderful gifts of joy present. A book would be a huge undertaking which I think is beyond my current ambitions and probably capabilities as well. What I may however look into over the next little while is an amatuer DVD presentation of grooming essentials if there is a demand and if I feel confident it can be done to a decent standard. Now to your specific question, The only combs I have seen with rotating tines are very fine - 20 tines per inch or more - and are generally sold as "flea combs". (The one you are referencing may well be diferent from those - perhaps you could post a picture for better review.) Anyway in my opinion very fine combs simply aren't necessary in when grooming even a knoted/matted Bobtails. (I do have a fine toothed comb but I predominantly use it to remove "eye boogers" and the remnants of upset stomachs from the anal area. For matt removal they are simply too fine and end up stripping undercoat. Often that is not a concern to pet owners but certainly an issue when showing the dog.) The rotating tines would be less detrimental than a comb with fixed tines but is still more "firepower" than should be necessary with an OES. If the dog is matted and a pin brush cannot brush the knot/matt out the first dematting tool is my fingers!! Large knots and matts are first torn apart by hand to make them into lots of smaller knots which can then be prosecuted with a course tined comb and if necessary a series of increasingly fine combs and or a slicker brush. I described the full dematting procedure in the "Bobtail Matt Removal" thread. Cheers Carl |
| Carl,
I am referring to a comb that's teeth are spread approx. 9 teeth per inch of comb. Here is a link to a photo: http://www.thepamperedpetmart.com/thest ... 5SSPC.html I don't want to use anything on my OES's coat that will strip or harm the coat in any way. (she's no show dog, but she's my dog, and I only want what's best for her) When using the comb I did have to be very careful to comb through at the tip of the knot and work towards the skin. I will try the "fingers technique" to remove any matts in the next couple weeks when we do it all again! Thank you, Carl!
PS - I love the idea of a DVD presentation. If you ever decide to create one, please put me on your list of buyers. |
| What an interesting comb - I've never seen such a thing!
Carl - thank you as always for your posts. You are a gem! |
| Nancy,
Thanks for the link. This is the first time I have ever seen anything on this comb and it looks like a very interesting and potentially promising tool. It has a nice course tine spacing so that is good for matt removal and should pretty much prevent inadvertant stripping of the undercoat. The rotating and stainless steel tines will definetly reduce the amount of hair pulled out by hair/tine friction, all good things so far. My two concerns with this comb at first glance are the tine length and fabrication material. Based on the dimensions given the tines are probably about 3/4 inch effective length. That's a bit short for my taste but if you are careful to only catch the periphery of the knot/matt you should be able to work effectively down to the skin with tines of that length. I am however much more concerned with how rugged this comb will be in long term service. The "spine" or handle appears to be a plastic/acrylic material that could prove to be brittle and possibly snap. (Our first matt rake purchased for use on the family Afghans had a plastic handle which snapped on its first use.) Again though careful use and ensuring that you only use 3-5 tines maximum on the knot at any given time and holding the spine/handle directly above the "working" tines is could mitigate this concern. It is also a bit short for my personal tastes prefering my combs to be in the order of 6-7 inches. If you do purchase one I'd be very interested to hear your comparative analysis of it to a standard comb. I'll look to see if I can find a Canadian supplier at a decent price. (Sometimes transportation, brokerage fees, dollar exchange and taxes turn $US 5.00 items into $CDN 20.00!) If I can find one I'll give it a try as well. Thanks and Cheers Carl |
| Carl,
I have a similar comb to the one pictured. However, mine is approx. 8 inches in length. The brand is Mikki -- and the style is the "Untangler". They come in different lengths as well as styles. One is for professional grooming. The other (shown in the photo) is a less costly model of the groomer's tool. And yes, the tines are approx. only 3/4". I am definately a novice at grooming. Learning as I go. I am fortunate to have a willing partner (Maggy) who tolerates me as I learn more. I am not certain of the material of the comb, but as I sit here I am trying to snap it, and it won't budge. |
| Hmmm...maybe I should get some of those for my hair. I sometimes think I look like Rosanna Rosannadanna. Yeah, BIG hair. But all kidding aside, what comb do you recommend for a OES who will stay mostly in a puupy cut? She hates being combed and fussed with. |
| Sandy Sheepie,
A Bobtail kept in puppy clip (for arguements sake hair less than 4 inches long) should not experience much knoting or matting if he/she receives a decent brush through a couple of times per week. Of course if they get into the water a lot, roll around in the dirt and roughhouse around then all bets are off!!! 
Anyway since you shouldn't get a lot of knoting/matting I would settle on a single coarse comb and either a slicker or medium/fine combination comb. I personally love the Resco coarse #80 comb as a general purpose comb for knot and matt removal. I find it much lighter and far more comfortable that the equivalent Twinco because of the profiled grip. Any decent grooming supply store should have them and they are illustrated at http://www.petsupplyhouse.com/shoppingpage.htm under "+combs" and then "Resco". A combination comb that has both a fine and medium portion such as a #1 All Systems 7 1/2 inch comb would be a good second comb for back-up and getting the finer "felt" knots. (These are often refered to as either poodle or greyhound combs.) Alternatively, a good slicker would do the same job, in which case I like either the Lawrence flat slicker or a Universal curved slicker. I am recommending these finer combs and slicker under the assumption that since you are keeping your Bobtail in a puppy clip you want to remove the undercoat to minimize brushing and knoting/matting. Hope this helps, Cheers Carl |
| I tried one of those rotating pin things, not the same, it is shaped differently, like a rake, but just has 1" pins widely spaced that rotate. I actually found it helpful on shorter coat, but not on long coat. In the long coat (5" and more) it tended to cause the hair to wrap around it. As it turned it collected more hair and got tangled. |
| JakobandBrandonsmom,
the link to the comb that you were referring to has expired. would you mind identifying the comb that you like, again? Thanks! |
| So sorry about that. Here is the comb. It's item # O3-M1 Oster® Comb - Medium/Coarse on Jefferspet.com.
It's an awesome buy for only $10 - by far my favorite grooming comb. |
| The Hindes Brushes are available at
www.groomerschoice.com Just received ours, its heaven !! Thanks again Carl, it really makes grooming easier with the straight pin brush !! |
WOW!!  What fabulous information and thanks for all of the detail! I've been offline for awhile and I just read a few of your posts on grooming. Thanks for the help!! I was wondering if you were going to make a video. The pictures are great, but I'm new to this type of grooming so seeing it happen would be fantastic. I'm off to buy us some new brushes and combs.
Thanks Carl!
Sue |
| I want to try a Chris Christensen Brush they have a great sales pitch but cost $37 anybody ever used one? |
| I just bought a Resco #80 comb at the Detroit Kennel Club show over the weekend and I love it! It fits great in my hand and it's easy to get out the tangles.
Between that and the Hindes brush, Belle & I are happy girls. Actually, Belle is happy no matter what I use. She usually falls asleep when I'm grooming her. Jil |
| Thanks to everyone, especially Carl, for the great advice on grooming supplies. I ordered a new Oster clippers for the annual sheepie-shearing ritual, now it may not be needed. The Hindes brush works wonderfully and all the 'rats' have brushed out of Maggie's coat. She even sits still and allows it to be used... and really seems to enjoy it.
I appreciate all the information on suppliers, too. Why don't they sell some of these quality grooming tools at PetSmart or Petco? Are our sheepers too exotic a breed to be catered to by the so-called superstores? |
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