A question for a breeder
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I have been breeding OES for over 20 years, and I will tell you now, I would NEVER breed a dog who does not have at a minimum hip certifications through either OVC or OFA as well as eyes certified through CERF. All prospective puppy buyers are shown these certifications. I like to brag about the health, temperment and accomplishments of my dogs! A breeding dog must also have only the best temperment. For me, they must be sound in every way. I am also a show breeder, so for me, I like my breeding dogs to be Champions. This is for a number of reasons. First of all, I am a breeder who is striving to produce the best OES. In order to not become kennel blind and think my dogs are all perfect  , they are all shown to their Championships where I am receiveing an expert opinion from at least 3 judges as to whether or not my dog conforms to the breed standard. Why should this matter to a person only wanting an OES for a pet? I am asked that question all the time. The answer is quite simple. The breeder who shows their dogs, does health clearances, only breeds the best specimens in every way, is a breeder who is putting alot of time and care into their dogs and genuinely cares about what they are producing vs someone putting two dogs together just to have puppies with no thought on health, temperment, conformation. |
| I'm not a breeder but I can answer a couple of your questions.
Yes, hip tests and other testing should be done for anyone considering breeding their OES. Yes, test results should be received before deciding to use an animal in a breeding program. Not doing so is irresponsible! You should ask to SEE the test results--which should be good to excellent. No promises that they will be provided later. It is impossible to avoid all possible health issues, but it is possible to limit the risk of producing puppies with long term avoidable health problems by knowing your breed, your breed standards, and knowing what health issues might be present in your breed so that you can do your best to avoid producing a puppy that will have serious and painful health issues that could be avoided. No animal, male or female, with an unsound temperment should be used in a breeding program. People who breed without taking their animals to championships usually do so because showing dogs is time consuming and expensive. If you are breeding for profit, you have to skip some steps. Showing and testing are usually what gets skipped. Any breeder on this site will tell you that if you breed for the right reasons, doing everything correctly, you will not make any money, even charging a great deal of money for your puppies. At best, you break even. These people do it for the love of the breed, not for the money. It sounds as though your friend unfortunately bought a puppy from an unethical breeder who didn't care enough to do his/her best for the puppies s/he was creating. Likely they were much more interested in the money they would receive from the adorable puppies, not for the potential for heartbreak for the family who naively bought the puppy. Coming to this site and reading as much as you can is a great way to start out your life with a dog, even if you don't get an OES. The principles are the same: good breeders take great care and great pride in producing the healthiest possible puppies with the best chance at avoiding known inherited health issues and with excellent temperments, regardless of the breed. |
| Breeder or no breeder, I would think common sense would tell someone not to breed a dog with a poor temperament no matter what the hip scores were. People are jerks. I'm sorry your friend got involved with someone like that. It's amazing what people will say to sell a puppy. |
| No reputable breeder would even contemplate a mating without the results of all the Health tests it forms part of their decision of who to mate to who to produce the next generation & realies on those tests & scores as to wether you are doing the correct thing with a mating..
Temperament is just as important too. So an aggressive dog in nature should not be used at all. Best wishes in your search, ask lots of questions and any reputable breeder should be quite happy to answer them. Also ask for copies on paper of the Health Certificates of the dam and sire and again most reputable breeders are happy to comply with that request also. If you get a chance to see a prospective pup then do go and see the whole litter if at all possible. Check out mom to see how she is and how she interacts with her babies and also the conditions the mom and litter are kept in, all clean, puppys look healthy,coats nice and shiny, no discharge from eyes etc are good to check out yourself if you can. Sometimes the sire is hard to see as they can live elsewhere. Best wishes with it all  |
| Every responisble breeder waits for all heath checks to get back( and no one should breed with a bad temperament period), I would not dream of breeding without, as for champions: in general yes but it is not always possible as I bred a bitch needing 1 more major which is nowhere to be found, so decided to breed her and going to hunt down this last major somewhere. One sometimes cannot wait until those last points as it is better to breed a bitch before she turns 3 years old ( first time mom anyway). Edy just my opinion Anonymous wrote: I've noticed there are several breeders on here and had some questions. I'm looking for a new puppy (pet) and want to know about all the testing that's mentioned on here. If a breeder doesn't do the tests does that make them bad? I have a friend who just bought a puppy and found out the mother has a bad temperament and the hip test came back as poor. He was told the hip test was done but the score wasn't back yet, should an ethical breeder wait for scores before breeding? If not what is the point since it would be too late to do anything or am I wrong? From what I've read on here it also seems that most breeders don't breed unless the parents are champions, I understand why but why wouldn't this be done? Since a puppy is a long commitment I want to know everything I can. |
| so long as the hips have been done, and they are preliminarily read there is no problem with breeding so as the vet thinks they are fine. Yes, it is better to wait to have all the information back but sometimes things just happen too fast. |
I intend to Breed Willow next year when she reaches 2 years of age and subject to all her checks. She recently had a BVA eye test and it was clear  , she will be having her hips tested July of this year.
I have not bred before so am learning all the time and following the Kennel Club guide lines. I have done some research and have two possible males lined up who have had all their health screening. Its scary I dont mind telling you, and there is so much to learn, but at the same time I am very excited. I did make a fatel mistake of posting my intrntions on a rescue forum (I am a member) and have volunteered for this rescue quite a few times and have a very good relationship with them. However I was well and truely slated for admitting I intended to breed Willow  I felt quite upset with their comments.
Debsx |
Quote: I did make a fatel mistake of posting my intrntions on a rescue forum (I am a member) and have volunteered for this rescue quite a few times and have a very good relationship with them. However I was well and truely slated for admitting I intended to breed Willow Crying or Very sad I felt quite upset with their comments.
Most rescues won't share your enthusiasm for breeding OES but you need to consider why they feel this way. Rescues see too many dogs that didn't go back to the breeder when the family either no longer wanted the dog or could no longer care for it. They've seen too many OESs that ended up neglected or abused because breeders sold cute puppies to families who were not prepared for the commitment this breeder requires or the people were simply irresponsible goofs. Rescues are sometimes left to clean up the mess that breeders have left behind. 
Do you have a show breeder who's mentoring you? This may help rescues to understand that you're breeding OES responsibly and they may come to respect you for your efforts to create sound puppies in health and temperament. |
| If I may add somthing to this: Ever resposible breeder should be able to take a puppy or adult back with NO QUESTIONS asked, and it DOES happen, has happened to me, I take any dog back I bred. This has to be written very clearly in the contract of sale. If a breeder is not prepared to do this or might not have the room to take dogs back, than DO NOT BREED. Also a big reason for me anyway, I will NEVER have a Christmas litter !!!!, cute puppy under the tree, when it takes too much time, out of the door. 6Girls wrote: Quote: I did make a fatel mistake of posting my intrntions on a rescue forum (I am a member) and have volunteered for this rescue quite a few times and have a very good relationship with them. However I was well and truely slated for admitting I intended to breed Willow Crying or Very sad I felt quite upset with their comments. Most rescues won't share your enthusiasm for breeding OES but you need to consider why they feel this way. Rescues see too many dogs that didn't go back to the breeder when the family either no longer wanted the dog or could no longer care for it. They've seen too many OESs that ended up neglected or abused because breeders sold cute puppies to families who were not prepared for the commitment this breeder requires or the people were simply irresponsible goofs. Rescues are sometimes left to clean up the mess that breeders have left behind. Do you have a show breeder who's mentoring you? This may help rescues to understand that you're breeding OES responsibly and they may come to respect you for your efforts to create sound puppies in health and temperament. |
| Yes I fully understand, and appreciate their reasons. I did explain that all puppies will be endorsed and I will add a clause in my contract stating any puppy/adult of mine MUST be returned to me should peoples circumstances change, however it dosent seem good enough
Yes I do have a mentor who is helping/guiding me every step of the way 
Debsx |
Dollysmum wrote: Yes I fully understand, and appreciate their reasons. I did explain that all puppies will be endorsed and I will add a clause in my contract stating any puppy/adult of mine MUST be returned to me should peoples circumstances change, however it dosent seem good enough
Yes I do have a mentor who is helping/guiding me every step of the way Debsx what is your purpose in breeding? Maybe that would help them understand? |
| Firstly, to breed the very best I can with a good line, secondly to keep one of Willows puppies.
Debsx |
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