Panda's nose
Health-wise, she is fine! Eats, plays and acts completely normal...well, if you can call panda normal...lol... Anyway, lately, her nose has been cracking and develops a ''scab'' ....ive tried vitamin E, polysporin with vasoline, suntan lotion, regular lotion...but i just cant seem to get her nose back to normal.... and let me tell you, its really hard to try to prevent your dog from licking her nose right after you apply an ointment to it....there is no e-collar for that.... anyone have any ideas what might work? if not, off to the vet we go... |
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| Darcy try rubbing some Olive Oil into it to see if that helps also it should soak into the dry area and help stop the cracking and even if she licks it not toxic for her and it will soak in fast and still help to moisturise the skin on her nose to keep it supple and to help it not crack even if she does lick it a bit.
They massage babies with Olive oil.  |
| Darcy,
... poor Panda!!! 
I know you've been to the vet, but unless she's getting sunburn I don't think these are symptoms of vitiligo. Joan has vitiligo and it is just a coloration issue. Could I suggest you take your sweet girl to a different vet and have her re-looked at, and perhaps scraped/tested for things like ringworm and other fungals? (Did we ever try anti-fungals?) I feel so sad for Poor Panda's Proboscis! |
| Poor Panda. Sounds ouchy. |
| Poor Panda! Hope there isn't any discomfort!
Ron, I have it as well. Didn't know that about Joan, and I've never told anyone that about me  |
| I was thinking the same thing as Ron....something else is going on there. Aquafor is great for dry skin...keeps skin soft/moiste longer. |
No advice just want to wish Panada all the best  |
| Ah... so Kayt isn't alone.
Olive oil or vitamin E are great first choices. The dog can lick it off without any problems... stay within the daily dosage recommendation for the vitamin E. The left half of Kaytee's nose dries out due to her harelip and the fact that she can't actually lick that part of her nose. http://oesusa.com/Kaytees3a.jpg It develops deep cracks and thin layers of black tissue will peel off if it's not kept moist.
Over the years we tried several things from different oils to prescription products but most only lasted a short time and had to be reapplied several times a day. We found Vasoline, and recently Aquaphor by Eucerin, work best when applied after breakfast and a second time just before bed if her nose has gotten too dry. It's the only thing that stays on long enough to actually moisturize. The best time to apply it is immediately after you wash their face because it helps to hold some of that moisture in. A down side is that these greasy and oily topicals attract dirt... I take a flea comb to comb out the gunk before washing her face. I've found that if you keep the hair near the nose short, you don't get that dirty-urchin-face quite so fast. Hugs to Panda. |
| sigh...yeah ron, ive been thinking of the same thing...the vet did blood work on her this past fall and she was fine....
it could be a fungal infection on top of everything else...especially since she licks her nose...i actually have some cream but have been hesitant to use it on her due to the fact that i dont know what will happen if she licks it... it seems to go in cycles...i do the vasoline or vitamin e for a few day, nose gets clear, then i stop and then it comes back...hmmm maybe i shouldnt stop..... it sounds like no matter what we are going to the vet on wed...my poor princess....im just devestated about her pigmentation....thank GOD though she is healthy.... |
| Poor Panda. Give her a big hug-- and hopefully the Vet will do some more checking!
((((hugs)))) |
| I was just reading something about nose pigment and the pigment protects from the sun. Not sure if she is in the sun, but if so, maybe it would help keep it from drying more? I wonder if the dry climate there in AZ is tough on it too. Poor Panda, I hope that her nose heals up. |
| Darcy I would get a second opinion on Pandas loss of Pigment and now the lesions on her nose. Something is not quite right and sounds like it is getting worse with her nose cracking and scabbing now or maybe even a referal to see a specialist vet.
Has she been checked for Discoid Lupus? The symptoms are fairly similar to what is happening with your girl. It only affects the head/face area with the first signs loss of pigment at the nose and then gradually the rest of the pigment on the face as well. Not to worry you but I really think you do need a second opinion to what has happened with panda and what is happening now with the drastic pigment loss and now the sores.. Here is some info on Discoid Lupus in dogs. Not saying she has that but fairly similar things are happening to her and it is not an easy thing to diagnose and confirm in dogs but with Collies listed with this problem and OES have collies in their background, might be worth mentioning to the vet is it possible it might be Discoid Lupus affecting her. Discoid lupus Discoid lupus is an immune mediated skin disease that is probably related to systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) but instead of affecting the whole body as SLE does, it primarily affects the nose and face. As far as I know, there is no known cause of this problem but it does seem more frequent in dogs of the German shepherd, collie, Brittany spaniel. Shetland sheepdog, Siberian husky and German shorthaired pointer breeds. The disease normally starts as loss of pigment around the nose. There may be scabby sores or just scaling of the nasal tissue. The surface of the nose may change from its typical cobblestoned appearance to a smooth surface. As this disease progresses it can cause deep sores on the borders of the nose where it meets normal skin and the sores start to progress up the bridge of the nose. Some dogs seem to be really bothered by this condition and others show little reaction to the sores. Ultraviolet light seems to make the sores worse, so the disease may appear to be seasonal. It is more common in areas in which exposure to ultraviolet light is increased. If the depigmentation leads to sunburn, squamous cell carcinoma becomes more likely than in other dogs. Topical sunscreens can be very beneficial, although it is hard to get dogs to leave them on. Keeping the dog in during the peak sunlight hours is probably the most effective way to prevent excessive exposure to UV light. Treatment depends on the severity of the disease. In many cases, topical treatment will be all that is necessary, using a corticosteroid ointment (Panalog, Synalar and others). It is usually necessary to use a fairly potent corticosteroid. Vitamin E supplementation is sometimes beneficial but can take several months to show much effect. Severe cases require treatment with corticosteroids. It is possible that other immunosuppressive therapy such as gold salts or azathioprine (Immuran) could be beneficial but this is rarely necessary to consider. |
| Funny you should mention Lupus, Lisa. Crossed my mind, but I sort of expected more severe symptoms. And, yes, it hae been seen in OES. I've only heard of one case and it goes back a few decades. Stumped the regular vet so the owners ended up taking the bitch to a vet school and they were able to reverse the condition. The bitch in question was younger than Panda and once she was "cured", it never returned.
FWIW Kristine |
| Poor Panda! Barney gives her big licks to make her feel better... |
| thanks lisa and everyone else!
it does kinda sound like that lupus....i checked her nose again last night and sure enough, she is losing the texture....so im going to do a little research myself, so that i am armed with info before i go in...... i found something for the time being for her nose too....chapstick with vitamin E AND spf 30......its a lot harder for her to lick off....her nose seems to be clearing a little bit..... |
| ive been reading up on this type of lupus.....it does sound exactly like what panda has.....
i am soooooo bummed because, i also read that if it were diagnosed early, a lot of the pigment loss could have been stopped..... i have an appt with the vet for next wed....ill let you all know what happens....poor pooh....i feel like a horrible mother....  |
| Your not a horrible mummy your a very caring and concerned mum.
It might not be that, but just good to know to ask as most vets would not know this condition at all. As kristine said in her post it stumped that Oes's Vet. Just thought it might be worth mentioning as now that her nose is cracking and scabbing it seems to be more then her original diagnosis of vitiligo. Keep us posted to what the outcome is, wether it is still vitiligo or something else, hugs to you both.  |
| Our vet visit went well. Dr R. stayed with us, talked, examined and scoped panda out from top to bottom.....
Panda does NOT have discoid Lupus. Her nose is not scabbing but peeling...from the sun and dry weather....all of her vitals were good. Dr R says that she stands by her diagonisis of vitiligo HOWEVER, she said that we need to be concerned with Pandas future...vitiligo has a branch autoimmune disease called Canine Uveodermatologic Syndrome.... basically, vitiligo with a possible loss of eyesight...she checked pandas eyes out very well and she sees nothing to worry about at this point.... we will be going in every 6 months though for regular checkups from here on out though... just lots of love and sunscreen are needed at this point...panda, to her chagrin, will be spending more time inside than she would like.... oh and ive been feeding my miss piggy too much...she weighs a whopping 72 lbs.....she needs an 8 lb diet....no more cookies or cheese for the oinker! |
| Well, yeah isn't quite the right response, but I'm so glad it wasn't lupus and that it still seems to be fine.
Maybe you can start her diet later--doesn't she deserve one last cookie to celebrate? Oh, and Barney feels her diet pain, though. |
| That's good news that your baby doesn't have lupus. While we of course mourn the loss of vision in our dogs, remember that vision is not the most important sense. MSU told us that some dogs go blind and the owners never had a clue because they got around great.
Quote: panda, to her chagrin, will be spending more time inside than she would like
Early evening or early morning playtime outside sounds like fun 
My Darby Me Darlin' was recently diagnosed with an autoimmune condition. We just do what we have to do... |
Darcy wrote: just lots of love and sunscreen are needed at this point...panda, to her chagrin, will be spending more time inside than she would like.... oh and ive been feeding my miss piggy too much...she weighs a whopping 72 lbs.....she needs an 8 lb diet....no more cookies or cheese for the oinker! Glad to hear she isn't terribly ill! I see a big floppy brimmed sun hat in her future
Maybe you can offset the cookise and cheese with some early morning runs? |
So glad to hear that Panda does not have discoid lupus. 
Oscar was just tested for systemic lupus, but it looks like we've dodged that bullet. Is it just me or are there a ton of dogs lately being diagnosed with autoimmune issues? Maybe I'm just sensitive to it as Oscar has such troubles in that area. Well, glad to hear that Panda's pink nose is just a pink nose! Laurie and Oscar |
| Good to hear darcy it was not lupus.
Mid morning fun outside with her sunscreen on then again early evening so that is not too bad just inside in the peak of the day with the sun.
Hoping her sight does not go over time but at least you know now that it could be a possibility in the future. How come every 6 months to check? Is that just to monitor her with this condition and to keep checking her sight to see if that is being affected? Give your baby a hug from us. |
| yes lisa, its just to monitor her eye sight..she pointed out what to look for, but personally id rather have her checked out by a professional.....
we do evening walks as is, but the days of spending all day outside, in the winter is over...and boy, let me tell you, this dog LOVES to be outside....since she knows how to open the door, looks like ill actually have to lock it...lol... thanks for all of your concern and well wishes....lisa thanks for the heads up on the lupus....it was definately plausable.... if for some reason, Panda does lose her eye sight...it will not be the end of our world...hell, i lost a boob and im still okay.....  we will adapt as needed....
if panda would keep a floppy hat on, i would so buy her one! |
What about taping it to her head?  Poor Panda. Edgar doesn't like hats either. I'm glad she doesn't have lupus. |
Darcy wrote: if for some reason, Panda does lose her eye sight...it will not be the end of our world...hell, i lost a boob and im still okay.....
we will adapt as needed....Yes, you will. But is it all that likely? There is such a thing as canine opthamologists. I get my guys' eyesight checked regularly. Ask your vet how involved the eye check is and if pretty basic, check for kennel clubs etc in the area and track who may be offering CERF clinics. ( www.offa.org lists some of them under health clinics, but not all) You don't need the CERF, but they're just checking for eyesight abnormalities, which it sounds like is basically all you need too? Just a thought. We have three clinics in WI this spring, $25/exam. I think $40 is the regular non-clinic cost around here. With only one dog it really isn't that much more expensive to just schedule a regular appt with a canine eye specialist so that might be just as easy if that's the kind of check-up your vet has in mind. Good news on the lupus. Kristine |
| my vet said that it broke down to 90/10....
90% that it is just regular vitiligo and 10% of it going to the other thing.... i think our odds are pretty good...however, im not a betting girl....so im just going to play it safe.... ill ask my vet about the doggie eye doctor.....that price seems completely reasonable....hell, id just about spend anything on her to make sure she is comfortable and happy.... i love you guys! thanks! |
| since this came up... do cerf tests actually test eyesight (like we get tested at the opthoomologist/optician for glasses) or does it test for abnormalities - like we would get screened for glaucoma or cataracts etc?
I have always heard the best way to test your dogs actual eyesight is to very quietly move away while they are a distance from you and preoccupied. if they focus back where you were when they last heard from you when they reorientate- its a pretty good indication they can't see well. I know Marley does this when her hair is down and she of course cerfs normally. |
kerry wrote: since this came up... do cerf tests actually test eyesight (like we get tested at the opthoomologist/optician for glasses) or does it test for abnormalities - like we would get screened for glaucoma or cataracts etc?.
Good question. They look for abnormalities primarily, including the two you mention, though by virtue of them they can generally give you a pretty decent idea of the functional vision of the dog. They don't actually have them read, well, shapes off a chart. -- Read line three, please. -- biscuit, ball, bed, SHEEP, it's a sheep! oh boy, oh boy oh boy!!! 
Never mind, bad joke.
Though recall how excited the vet got when someone brought her OES to him to be checked because they suspected - what was it, near sightedness? I can never remember how that works, but at any rate they figured out he couldn't see his sheep at a distance  She told me she could have had goggles made for him, but apparently at great expense and, frankly, he wasn't all that into the sheep to begin with.
The CERF site is primarily focused on inherited eye diseases obviously, but also has some good info on upcoming clinics as well as listings of canine eye docs by state so that may be useful for someone: http://www.vmdb.org/cerf.html Kristine |
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You know when I first took a dog to the specialist eye vet years ago for an eye clearance, I had visions of them sitting there and having to woof at an eye chart with little figures of bones, bikkies, cats, sheep and toys on it. 
OK so that did not happen, just drops in the eyes to dilate them then this crazy eye doctor with crazy glasses and scopes on staring into my sheepies eyes in different lights. Darn it I thought the eye chart with doggie stuff on it & woofing at the chart as they go down the chart from the bigger pictures to the teenie ones would of been more fun.
Do you annual eye screen over there? We have to up to the age of 7 or 8 for that final clearance. Same in Europe too. |
| Darcy so glad to hear she does not have lupus |
lisaoes wrote: Do you annual eye screen over there? We have to up to the age of 7 or 8 for that final clearance. Same in Europe too.
Guidelines are much looser here. Typically people will CERF once. Some as early as a year old. If the dog is bred again they may re-CERF before doing that (and they are supposed to). Some popular studs may be re-CERFed periodically but it is not typical to keep doing so up to a certain age. The ideal, like thyroid, is to keep checking annually or at least every couple of years for the life of the dog, but at a guess few people do this and there is no "final clearance" age. When I had Belle checked at almost ten she had some hardening of the lenses which is normal with age (us too). I mainly had her checked because I was planning on running her in agility at a national. The exams don't detect things like loss of depth perception, which is also a normal aging thing, but critical for an agility dog obviously... Relatively speaking vision problems appear not to be widespread in the American OES population. I think we may have had a more serious problem with juvenile cataracts a few decades or so ago, which may explain why a number of breeders screen entire litters before they go to their new homes (can't CERF till a year old, but can still check them) and then feel OK CERFing them ages 1-3 and not worrying so much about it. The good thing about something early onset is that if you bother to screen it's more easily controlled. Perhaps we've become a bit blase about vision problems. That may change. You hear relatively rarely of PRA, though it *is* out there in the N American population too and there have apparently been new cases more recently. I worry because the dog behind my youngest is a European import and while he doesn't go back to a known PRA carrier last I checked, he does go back to the pedigrees behind some of them, so I have to figure the risk is there. And for some reason all three males that I like a lot in terms of possibly breeding to go back to the same dog who happens to be one of the few known American PRA carriers. He wasn't used that much, so what are the odds???
(With apologies to Ms Panda for hi-jacking her thread). Kristine |
| My dog Hershey has been diagnosed with LUPIS. We took her to the vet because her nose was crusty & we didn't know what had happened. One day fine & the next day it appeared crusty. The vet diagnosed her with canine LUPIS. The only real problem is she must stay out of the sun. This is difficult in AZ. She was given a steroid pill to see if her nose would clear up. (It cleared up. That means she has LUPIS). The main problem we have is getting her walks. We would leave much earlier in the day before her diagnosis. We aren't doing the best with her walks & she's putting on some weight. Hope this information helps with your baby. Hershey in az |
Hershey in az wrote: My dog Hershey has been diagnosed with LUPIS. We took her to the vet because her nose was crusty & we didn't know what had happened. One day fine & the next day it appeared crusty. The vet diagnosed her with canine LUPIS. The only real problem is she must stay out of the sun. This is difficult in AZ. She was given a steroid pill to see if her nose would clear up. (It cleared up. That means she has LUPIS). The main problem we have is getting her walks. We would leave much earlier in the day before her diagnosis. We aren't doing the best with her walks & she's putting on some weight. Hope this information helps with your baby. Hershey in az Can you get your dog involved in something like agility that is held indoors, so that she can get some exercise? So tough to keep them inside. |
| My brief experience with walking in AZ was to do it around 4 a.m. Yeah, it was up in Sun City where safety was less a concern. Amazing how many others were also avoiding the sun and heat. |
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