Buying a puppy
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| without showing - how do we know if the dog is anywhere close to the standard, which defines what a dog should be? that said, its still a good question and one that does need to be addressed as fewer and fewer people make the effort to show dogs. |
| The breeder needs to know how to selectively breed... not just bring two dogs together because they own both sire/dam or because there's a convenient sire nearby.
A breeder needs the knowledge of how to research breeding lines in order to reduce the chance of health problems and to produce dogs closest to the breed standard. Testing of only the sire and dam isn't enough... it's why responsible breeders would never pick up a dog of unknown origin, test the dog and breed him/her because they "can". (Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.) One of my pet peeves is sheepies that have been improperly docked... I adore this girl but she had a tick-tock stump http://oesusa.com/Pandi-Girl-Short.jpg (goes back and forth like a pendulum on a clock when she wags her stump  ) indicating the breeder hadn't a clue as to how to properly dock an OES.
Testing in very important but there's so much more that goes into responsible breeding... |
| Yes, it does matter. By keeping in touch with the "show ring" & "breed clubs" the reputable breeders have the opportunity to get their hands on the other breeding stock out there. They can see then first hand, moving, not all "gussied up" etc. They can also evaluate their temperments! As a breeder myself, I don't stud out a dog to just anybody who can show me OFA certification & Cerf qualification (the 2 bare essential tests). This doesn't mean you have to judge the quality of your dog by the winning dog that day. Every judge has their own opinion of what is best that day. But it gives you a chance to see what is out there, what qualities they possess that may improve your lines. |
| Considering there are so few of these dogs around, I think it would be nice if some hobby breeders weren't so discouraged by show breeders. It would be better to be mentors and encourage them to breed a healthy dog if they still want to breed and not show. I don't blame people for not wanting to show a dog when there is so much negativity in the show world.
Either that or try to create a more positive show experience for people so that they are encouraged to show. The AR people will destroy all shows if we can't make the dog show a wonderful experience again. |
wendy58 wrote: Either that or try to create a more positive show experience for people so that they are encouraged to show. The AR people will destroy all shows if we can't make the dog show a wonderful experience again.
I couldn't agree more. But one thing to remember too is that a newcomer has to be open to constructive criticism & it takes more than just 1 or 2 shows to start winning. Too many times I find newcomers in all breeds thinking they should be able to find a good quality dog at the snap of a finger, take a few classes & go into the ring & start winning. |
ChSheepdogs wrote: wendy58 wrote: Either that or try to create a more positive show experience for people so that they are encouraged to show. The AR people will destroy all shows if we can't make the dog show a wonderful experience again. I couldn't agree more. But one thing to remember too is that a newcomer has to be open to constructive criticism & it takes more than just 1 or 2 shows to start winning. Too many times I find newcomers in all breeds thinking they should be able to find a good quality dog at the snap of a finger, take a few classes & go into the ring & start winning. I think 'show' people are a rare breed.. It takes time to develop the 'hard shell, soft middle' it takes to succeed.......  --from my very limited experience watching people I know, groom and brush...and puff and spray...for hours upon hours on end....to got into the ring for 5 minutes showing against 3 or 4 other dogs ???
They pour so much into the preparation, that there is nothing left afterward. They must be exhausted and feel drained---BEFORE a show...there seems to be no time to 'help' a newbie...AFTER a show...I am sure they just want to go home, sit down and rest.....So most of the mentoring has to be done.............WHEN???? For a newbie to go into the ring and not get recognition time and time again...is it politics????? or judge opinion??? or is there dog actually not prime enough?? And how do they know???Who tells them..honestly??? Heart was possibly 'show' material and I was asked to consider showing her. To be honest, I am glad I decided not to...I just don't have the stuff it takes (not to mention the funds... )...but I do respect the people that DO!!!! again...a very rare breed, indeed!!!! |
| very rare - so are the puppies they produce compared to the demand. |
sheepieshake wrote: For a newbie to go into the ring and not get recognition time and time again...is it politics????? or judge opinion??? or is there dog actually not prime enough?? And how do they know???Who tells them..honestly??? As someone new to the show ring, I have to say, the number one important thing to me right now is having fun with my dog. If it weren't fun for Owen, we'd stop doing it. I enjoy doing all the grooming, meeting people at the shows and answering questions from people. Winning would be nice but, as we're just getting into it, I really don't care. If you have a good dog and show him well, all politics aside, sooner or later you'll win. It's a subjective sport so even if you think your dog is the best or should've won, that judge maybe just didn't that day. I accepted that before I even started and it makes it a lot easier to walk in the ring, have fun and walk away happy no matter what happens. I imagine it will be frustrating if it takes a while but, like I said, it's not like I don't see it as a possibility. If you expect nothing and just do it for enjoyment, all the wins are just bonuses, you know? I don't disagree that there's a lot of negativity and politics but in a lot of ways, you only have to deal with as much of that as you allow yourself to. Not everything in life is easy and if it means something to you to want to be involved in dog showing, then you have to take some initiative to get involved and be ready for a certain amount of criticism. You chalk it all up to learning the ropes and consider it experience under the belt. Ultimately, if you go into it with a good attitude, good dog and you're pleasant to everyone, you'll get along fine. There's a few bad apples in every bunch. You just do your best to dodge them and focus on the reasons you're there in the first place-- to have fun! sheepieshake wrote: They pour so much into the preparation, that there is nothing left afterward. They must be exhausted and feel drained---BEFORE a show...there seems to be no time to 'help' a newbie...AFTER a show...I am sure they just want to go home, sit down and rest.....So most of the mentoring has to be done.............WHEN????
Mentoring isn't really the focus AT the show. It's true, you're really busy at the shows so it's the time to take what you've learned and apply it. You should be learning and working with your mentor BEFORE the shows. I go up and spend a day with my breeder at least once a month. She trims Owen, I watch and ask questions. We talk about other dog stuff and questions that I have and basically just hang out. I always end up telling her that, when I leave, I've always learned something new. My other breeder I talk to through e-mail several times a week and she answers all my other questions that don't require hands on stuff, especially show stuff where sometimes I don't know the right way to enter or where-- that kind of thing. I'm not a big phone person so I love that I can e-mail her and get a nearly immediate response if I have a burning question. I think it's worked out really well all around! |
| Been away, well not really just back bothering me badly. From what i read the original poster was not asking about showing only but belonging to a club as well.
I do agree that the dogs must be shown. How else do we evaluate our breeding stock? I have had two wonderful mentors...... how i would learn was to go to their home, or they came to mine before a show and i would learn 'tasks'. One thing at a time. I remember before the National in Rhode Island my mentor coming to my house and we had 8 dogs to prepare! My task was STRIPPING.......... I think i hate that task more than anything else today and am sure it is the reason i developed the hill-sach's fracture in my shoulder and cannot do it as well to this day. You learn by watching others, a little here and a little there. Scissoring the same way. I am by no means the master of scissoring. There are those out there that can sculpt any errors out of a dog to look the perfect specimen. As to belonging to a club. I have very mixed emotions on this at this time. The clubs are not what they used to be.. I could not wait to become a member of OESCA back in the age of the dinosaurs. There was so much commraderie.. everyone would bring pot luck to eat together, we would go to eacho others homes for grooming sessions, do things together at other shows. (I see a LOT of this with the NEW St. Louis Club and wish i lived closer to them to be able to participate! Even the people in Texas are all getting together at shows anymore and having good times). I see today so much out to get the other person and not help anyone. I see very few newcombers into the club anymore. I know that I have sponsored or signed membership applications lately for 3 new people to come into our club. Our 'older' members are not being utilized and their memories and knowledge is falling by the wayside Some of them being forgotten. THAT makes me very sad. I didn't always agree with Harriet P.of the old Greyfriar Kennel's, but i always still to this day call to ask what she thinks when it is important. And, i just enjoy talking to her too and listening to the old tales of shows....... Right now, what i see with OESCA is getting a magazine 4 times a year, regional specialties that are dying out as we are losing members and workers.(I am sad at not going to the PA specialty this year as it is the last year i hear the club is being disbanded for not enought members/workers). You get to compete for trophies to have your names on, and ribbons. Yes there is comraderie and everyone pick's 'camps'. It is supposed to be about the dogs. We as the KEEPERS of this breed. There has been a lot done in the past couple of years getting the Health Registry Opened and health issues sbrought out that were never brought out before. They were swept under a rug. Now, we have an open health registry that we can be proud of and we can even add more to it, but the people /breeders have to be honest in reporting their health problems to it. So other than that, what does the club get you??? |
| Sorry you feel this way, you are in the wrong area, we here in Florida are helping all newbies and teach them all sorts of tricks, we want you guys out there and be succesfull, none of us here is different , we all make all the effort, to help and support
They pour so much into the preparation, that there is nothing left afterward. They must be exhausted and feel drained---BEFORE a show...there seems to be no time to 'help' a newbie...AFTER a show...I am sure they just want to go home, sit down and rest.....So most of the mentoring has to be done.............WHEN???? For a newbie to go into the ring and not get recognition time and time again...is it politics????? or judge opinion??? or is there dog actually not prime enough?? And how do they know???Who tells them..honestly??? . Heart was possibly 'show' material and I was asked to consider showing her. To be honest, I am glad I decided not to...I just don't have the stuff it takes (not to mention the funds... )...but I do respect the people that DO!!!! again...a very rar
When you start out showing , it is a new world in which you have to learn te confident in, and show your heart out , Emily who was a newbie learned a lot in a very short time and was very succesful , also Sidney with Simba . It has nothing to do with politics and I can tell you as a judge myself, if I have a newbie in my ring , I do my best to make that person feel comfortable and will put that dog up if it is the best one in the ring] |
| Frankly from what i've seen and heard of the back biting and nastiness going on of a couple of 'big name' breeders, i wouldn't WANT to belong to the club!
I've sat and thought of joining for 4 years now. The past board didn't WANT a healthy registry open to all, the board they have on now took it to the membership for a vote and they sure told the old one that they were wrong and DID want it. I wonder what they were all trying to hide? I've talked to a couple of different members. Some here on this board and some that are not and the nastiness that some people have it out is just plain jealousy and 'i've got the big name syndrome'. This is my 2 cents worth......... i'll stick to doing my own thing and not having it so anyone else tells me what i have to and don't have to do. i have shown, it isn't so bad you do have to have a ticker skin, but the people just are not worth the nastiness. |
Anonymous wrote: Frankly from what i've seen and heard of the back biting and nastiness going on of a couple of 'big name' breeders, i wouldn't WANT to belong to the club!
I've sat and thought of joining for 4 years now. The past board didn't WANT a healthy registry open to all, the board they have on now took it to the membership for a vote and they sure told the old one that they were wrong and DID want it. I wonder what they were all trying to hide? I've talked to a couple of different members. Some here on this board and some that are not and the nastiness that some people have it out is just plain jealousy and 'i've got the big name syndrome'. This is my 2 cents worth......... i'll stick to doing my own thing and not having it so anyone else tells me what i have to and don't have to do. i have shown, it isn't so bad you do have to have a ticker skin, but the people just are not worth the nastiness. What a shame. You really shouldn't let what you consider to be "a few bad apples" spoil the whole bunch. There are a lot of nice people in the club, who are willing to help new people & others as well. I myself always try to judge people from what I have observed & not from what others tell me about them. Sometimes that may make me appear to be a bit "standoffish" but what I am really doing is just pulling back & observing before making a judgement. |
You could always join and help fill the club with nicer people, and improve it from within. 
Then again, I'm not a member... |
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