How do I get my dog less focused on the rewards?
Any suggestions on how to turn down the treat drive, or is it either A) hopeless or B) not a good idea in general? |
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| what are you treating hi with? Morgan is sooo food driven I often work him just for praise and pets. |
| Little treats, usually just his kibble. He still goes nuts for his kibble. |
Ron, you need to sometimes give him a treat & sometimes not. That way he won't know when the treat is coming. Also, my trainer says to vary the type of treats throughout the training session. I mostly use this treat that remind you of "packing peanuts". But when we get to something that really needs some "drive" (like about turns or attention when heeling or figure 8's) out comes the liver or Carvers.  As you get further in training they will teach you how to wean off treats. Every dog is different . Mariah really needed treats to stay focused. But then she's my singleton & considers herself a beauty queen & social butterfly.  Melody (my 1st show dog & also my 1st obedience dog) liked the treats but she was so motivated that her reward was getting to train with me & my praise. She thrived on that. So she was much easier to wean off treats. Both my boys (father & son) would probably train for no treats. But that boys for you. Their biggest concern is that they make you happy.  |
| We do very little with treats for just that reason. I swear mine would stare at a treat and fall off a cliff if I dangled it over the edge!
Luckily, mine love praise and attention, so we rarely need to use a treat. Plus, that way you have it (treat) for when you need it, for that thing that needs a higher incentive or a fresh outlook.. But, if you want to treat train, using it less often and more randomly is essential. |
| Ron,
when you are training, you should remember what your goals are. If you are introducing a new behavior, then treats are a good thing to help reduce stress and emphasize the correct behavior. As you go along, you can then expect more out of your dog before they get a treat. Having a food motivated dog is wonderful, as it makes training alot more focused. We have a whole scheme of treats that we use for training. String cheese has a middle of the road treat value for us, we can train with it, it makes a nice reward , but does not get Mattie exceptionally excited. Carvers are good and a little higher on the treat reward scale, then hot dogs and finally canadian bacon. If you want Mattie to do anything with great enthusiasm and really put her mind to it, then canadian bacon is the way to her heart. When we were working thru her article issues and her go outs for Utility we really got a great response with food. There are some things that you just have to rote train, but when you want to shape a behavior remotely (like when a dog is 20-30 feet away) then positive motivation is exceptionally important. I could not clicker train if my life depended on it, as I am clickerly challenged, (ie my timing sucks!) but I can get treats out with the best of them. I agree with Dawn, it is important to use treats sparingly,and mix it up with alot of praise, but especially if you are starting, you tend to use alot of treats, as you go along, I tend to use a jackpot mentality, where when there is a really exceptional response to a command I give alot of praise and a high value treat. This creates a big impression on the dog, and they tend to relate that behavior with a big reward, making it more likely to be reliable when asked for. Michelle and Mattie who definitely wants as many treats as she can get and who considers pocket lint a pretty good treat!!! |
| If I have treats in my hand, the focus of attention is on my hand and trying to get anything accomplished winds up with a reiteration of all known behaviors...
So if I say "Touch" I get a sit, a high five, then a paw shake, then a speak then a down, then repeats of the above all while eyes are focused on the hand and drool is pouring from the flews. Not very conducive to training a new behavior! What am I doing wrong -- or what should I expect? |
Ron wrote: If I have treats in my hand, the focus of attention is on my hand and trying to get anything accomplished winds up with a reiteration of all known behaviors...
Put the treat in your mouth, very visably, to the dog. For example, place it between your teeth so the dog can see it. When he does what you want him to do, immediately give him the treat using BOTH hands at the same time. This way they learn to look at the location where the treat came from (front & center) rather than either hand at your side. Very valuable when you start to train fro the recall! |
| oer keep th etreat in your treat bag, mark the correct behavior and then treat. You can mark the correct behavior with a clicker or a word. I never keep treats out when we train, unless I need it to lure a new behavior - and that isn't too oftenc ause it seems to cause more trouble later than shaping or capturing does. |
Ron wrote: If I have treats in my hand, the focus of attention is on my hand and trying to get anything accomplished winds up with a reiteration of all known behaviors...
So if I say "Touch" I get a sit, a high five, then a paw shake, then a speak then a down, then repeats of the above all while eyes are focused on the hand and drool is pouring from the flews. Not very conducive to training a new behavior! What am I doing wrong -- or what should I expect? Sometimes just sometimes this can work for you. My Dalmo was the same, although I think it was a combination of wanting to "get it right" and get a treat. I had taught him sit, drop and shake a paw in that order. He sat, treat didnt immediately materialise in his gob, so he dropped and tried to shake while watching my hand, keep your eye on the treat at all times. This necessitated rolling over (treat still looks good even upside down) and he curled his front leg up as if to shake while lying half on his back. Now I make a gun with my hand and yell bang and he drops down and plays dead. Everyones favorite trick. |
| Ron,
Don't have the treats visible, either have them in a treat bag, or in a pocket. The dog will know there are treats but will not be getting them so they will slowly be desensitized to the fact that there is food. As for whatever behavior you are working ie Sit. When the dog does the behavior, you mark the behavior with praise, then follow with the treat. This way you are rewarding the behavior, but still maintaining some control. Give it some time and you will find that it will calm them down. Whatever you do, just remain consistent. Start by treating every time they do what you ask, then fade it by giving treats every couple of times that the dog does the asked for behavior. Michelle |
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