Maternal instincts.... Towards toys?
If we throw the rubber chiken, she starts whining louder and gets even more anxious, runs to pick it up, lifts is very, very delicately and places it in her bed and starts licking it and places herself in a defensive position (She's not aggressive, she lets you take it away again), like she was protecting the chicken from being harmed. She also takes it away from our hands very delicately if we offer it to her, and does the same thing, goues to her bed, sits in a protective position and starts licking (cleaning??) the chiken. Today it was almost impossible to take her to the backyard to go potty, because she realized I left the chicken inside, alone in her bed. She held to the floor like she had rubber cups in her feet and calmed donw until she could return to the rubber chicken.... That's really odd. Anybody else has seen your dogs behave like this with their toys? |
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| Hi Saul,
My older kitty girl Iris had a particular teddy bear whom she treated like a kitten, before we got Bell. She would carry it around, put it in the food and water dishes, wash it... She stopped that when we got Bell. However, I don't beleive she ever got protective of it, or worried about it, if it wasn't where she was. This seems a little more extreme to me... Sofa is spayed right? Karen  |
| Karen,
Sofa has not been spayed yet... Since Lennon is fixed, we could wait on her a litte bit more. Her last cycle was two months ago. She's not agressive towards us taking the poor chicken, we can take it from her and toss it around and she will not bite or growl, justs gets very aprehensive, and I could say that she treats it like a puppy... Any ideas? I forgot to mention it... When you squeeze it is kinda whines. She's very different with other toys, if you take them away from her, she gets all hyper and wants you to throw it, jumps all over the place and chases it and the offers it to lennon for a good tug-o-war, but that's not the case, she whines when we take it away... It's really strange. |
| It sounds like a false pregnancy. My great dane did this after her first heat. They do not have to be mated or even anywhere near a male for this to happen. Usually a false pregnancy ends sooner than real gestation, so I was wondering if you are absolutely sure she wasn't with any male dog while she was in heat? At all? For even 5 minutes?
My dane adopted many stuffed animals, and then fostered 3 orphaned kittens. When the false pregnancy ended the kittens were very shocked to discover that "Mommy" was chasing them LOL. Leah would carry a whole kitten in her mouth, just the tail sticking out, she never hurt them, and because they thought she was mom they though being soaked with drool was perfectly normal. LOL She cleaned them, moved them around, laid down with them and pretended to nurse them, everything. |
| AH HA! NOISE! Iris' bear also squeaked.... It WAS a collectible, until she got a hold of it- with a "growler" in it that squeaked when you tipped it. Although Iris was fixed as a kitten, I think she may have been acting out some subliminal maternal instincts... Since Sofa isn't fixed yet, this seems like a pretty logical conclusion- repressed maternal instincts.
What I don't know is how you should handle it- if it is ok for her to continue to mother the chicken or not? Maybe some of our more experienced members can chime in... Karen |
Willowsprite wrote: It sounds like a false pregnancy. My great dane did this after her first heat. They do not have to be mated or even anywhere near a male for this to happen. Usually a false pregnancy ends sooner than real gestation, so I was wondering if you are absolutely sure she wasn't with any male dog while she was in heat? At all? For even 5 minutes?
My dane adopted many stuffed animals, and then fostered 3 orphaned kittens. When the false pregnancy ended the kittens were very shocked to discover that "Mommy" was chasing them LOL. Leah would carry a whole kitten in her mouth, just the tail sticking out, she never hurt them, and because they thought she was mom they though being soaked with drool was perfectly normal. LOL She cleaned them, moved them around, laid down with them and pretended to nurse them, everything. I would think the same! Something is going on with her hormones. I'd look into it. |
Willowsprite wrote: It sounds like a false pregnancy. My great dane did this after her first heat. They do not have to be mated or even anywhere near a male for this to happen.  Danita warned me about that last night... We're positive she's not been with a male, so we can rule a real pregnancy out.Iriskmj wrote: Since Sofa isn't fixed yet, this seems like a pretty logical conclusion- repressed maternal instincts. Well Karen, Sofa's maternal side has always been very strong. She will not rest until she bathes us before we get up, and before we go to bed. She climbs on the bed, cleans Me and Danita and the she goes to sleep. The same thing in the morning, it's the first thing she does. She's also very tender and protective towards danita, so I'll say her maternal instincs are there Iriskmj wrote: What I don't know is how you should handle it- if it is ok for her to continue to mother the chicken or not? Maybe some of our more experienced members can chime in...
I really have no idea on what to do either. She left the rubber chicken outside when we went home to eat lunch, I hope she does not get too anxious. Should we keep on letting her mother the toy? I don't want to stress her too much and even less hurt her in any way... I wonder if she is going to stay depressed  if we take the chicken away without her knowing. |
| If she is experiencing a false pregnancy, she needs more love and affection that ever, and I would allow her to mother whatever she wants until it subsides. I would also get her hormones checked, and get the vet to check for pyometra as well. Sometimes after a heat cycle they can develop pyometra, a lethal infection, that does not always present as expected. This can be avoided by getting her spayed. |
| I'll go get her "baby" as soon as I get home and give her extra hugs while she's like this. I was reading abut false pregancy and the info said to wait until it's over to spay her or it could make it last longer... Any advise on that?
We didn't want to put her to the stress of the stay at the vet's office, but I guess it's better for her. |
| I hadn't heard that, but I'd ask your vet what they recommend. Spaying removes the uterus and ovaries. The ovaries are what produces most of the hormones, so I would think with the ovaries gone any hormonal symptoms would be gone shortly afterward. |
| I'm glad you posted this Saul! I'm learning a lot about this subject, that I never knew before! Still doesn't explain Miss Fris' bear though... Maybe she just needed something else to love!
Karen |
| saulmr - I've found, through my breeder, an vet with extensive experience on analyzing blood tests specifically from sheepies. Here's the link. http://itsfortheanimals.com/HEMOPET.HTM (I've found that not all vets are well versed in the specific needs of OESs. )
Good luck! |
| Thanks so much Heather for posting that info regarding Dr. Dodds. I'm going to give her a call since she's local once my puppy gets to me so I can have her run the tests at her office. I couldn't ask for a better resource! |
| Saul, how is Sofa doing? |
Sofa is doing a lot better, she does not carry "Sofito" (We had to name the rubber chicken  ) all over the house any more, she places it on a corner and puts it to "sleep", but she's not that anxious about it any more. I guess it's either that the hormonal levels are going back to her normal levels, or that her chicken is growing up and she's letting it be more independent.
I posted a pic of her with the rubber chicken on the pictures section.... She's looks very funny with that chicken in her mouth! |
| One of the major differences about dogs reproductive systems, is that when a dog goes into heat, it goes through the exact same hormone fluctuations and body changes for the same length of time whether it is bred or not. A dog's body assumes it is pregnant after each and every heat cycle. Some dogs just react differently to it than others. |
| Thanks for all the advise and insight... I learned much more aboud dog pregnancy than I ever wanted to know We gave Sofa lots of love and hugs and she seemed to react very positively.
Sofa had her previous cycle and nothing of this sort had happened, the chicken was a new toy and she did not care for it until it squeaked. Looks like now she's training it to play, because now Sofito (Little Sofa  ) is outside where she plays with it, she does not nurse it that much or gets anxious when we take it away, she only takes it to sleep at night. She's really cute. |
| We had a small mixed breed dog growing up that experienced false pregnancies. Her babies were our shoes! My dad and I were the only ones who could take them away, and eventually that was hard too. It caused her a lot of distress.
Our vet said she did this because we didn't have her spayed and she had never been pregnant. Her body never completed a full cycle. It got much worse as she got older -- she got mean about it, and the periods of false pregnancies got longer. I would recommend spaying for any female that isn't going to have puppies. By the time we knew what was going on with Imp, she was too old for spaying. It would have been kinder to her (and our shoes) had we done it earlier. |
| I know this is from a long time ago, but I was curious about paternal instincts. I've seen videos of females adopting various animals; like one great dane actually adopted and raised a baby fawn, and there was nothing in the video to suggest she was spayed. The two are still together years later and best friends. The now full grown deer is allowed inside all the time and everything. Also, I saw a video with a black lab female who looked like a regular family pet (most lab breeders have spay agreements, so she was likely spayed) and she had obviously adopted the kitten. The human video taper asks the lab about the kitten, and she gives her human Daddy a proud look, and picks up the kitten gently like a pup. She keeps glancing at her human excitedly, and very proud, like she's pleased she was given the kitten. Labs do grab things very softly in general, so I would think she thought of the kitten as a toy, but she picked it up by it's scruff, and she would retrieve it whenever it wandered too far. I had a lab for 12 years, and she tended to make the proud excited look more with something she was GIVEN, so that's why I think the dog knew the kitten was adopted. So here is my question: has anyone ever seen a male exhibit this type of behavior? My boyfriend has a rott/pit mix who is one of the loves of my life, and he treated the new cat very strangely. The family already had an adult cat, who Jagger (the dog) was afraid of. He mostly ignored him, but refused to walk to close to the cat, because the cat had scratched him when he got too close before. One day, my boyfriend's younger brother brought home a 6 month old kitten, who was fairly cuddly but already extremely crazy. Jagger was excited, as always, to see the smaller than him animal. As kitten got older, he got more violent, but SOMETIMES remembered to use his claws less. Jagger enjoyed playing with the kitten, and chasing him around, etc. When the kitten was sleeping, Jagger would often come get me, and "show me" the kitten, and gingerly lick kitten, who would respond with agitation and swatting at Jagger's nose. He "showed me" by indicating I should follow, and then excitedly stopping by kitten, and looking from me to kitten, before he licked. He also seemed to think kittens anger at his licking was cute. He would however, bark and romp toward kitten if he got to close to us while we were eating or lying down/sleeping. He was definitely making it clear kitten wasn't allowed near us at those times. If kitten attacked him when he wasn't in the mood, he would (instead of moving away) look at us and whine, to try and get us involved. Very sadly, kitten (who was about 2 y.o at the time) was hit about a week ago. The father of the family found the cat in morning, already passed on, and buried him. Jagger knew what had happened, so it's likely he was on the walk when the father found the cat. He was extremely depressed for days, and still doesn't seem quite right. Do you guys think he thought of this cat like a kitten? Would it be helpful to get him another animal to "parent"? I'm also curious as to whether or not anyone has had a dog with a clear paternal response to something that wasn't the dog's child. I know many animals, dogs and ourselves including like to nurture baby things: like my sister's GSD/rottweiler found a bunny nest and attempted to play with a baby by hopping around it carefully and then placing it gently between his paws and moving his head around. He likes to entice wild animals into play anyway(resulting in a nasty skunk bite), but with non-babies, he generally does not approve of trespassing into his yard. I just think lots of dogs like baby things, and do we think it's because they just think they're cute, or are they parenting them? If parenting, is it healthy? Do the dogs know that they adopted their animal? Could getting the dog in the original post a bunny or kitten be a healthy nurturing outlet for the dog? PS- I'm sorry to ramble on, and I know this is primarily a sheepdoggy board, but I found the conversation interesting, and wanted opinions on this stuff. Thanks! |
| I know this is from ages ago, but this is the only place I've found that confirms what I'm observing out of my dog. SK, My pit/jack russell mix is very "fatherly" with his toys in the manner described by the others posts to describe their female dogs' false pregnancies. It is only toys that squeak. He will shred anything that doesn't make noise. But we have learned that any toy that makes a high pitched noise gets put in a sacred spot. He places them gently with his mouth, careful to be soft mouthed with them and not make them squeak, into the box where we keep our hats and gloves for winter in the dark closet. Then if he is particularly anxious he will sit in/on top of the box, like a mother bird does on her eggs. If the closet is closed up he will lie next to the toys for hours until he convinced they are safe. And like many of the other dogs mentioned on this forum, he is not aggressive over them. He will let me take them out and squeeze them, or throw them to the next room, and he just repeats his motherly behavior of picking them up with a soft mouth and taking them to a safe place. He lets me take them out of his mouth too. We try to avoid getting him squeak toys now, because they seem to cause him more stress than enjoyment. He is a rescue that we have had for about 6 months. His rough past was evidenced in scars on his body and his poor health when we got him. He has been a rather timid dog so far and a bit more instinctual than most pets I have own (I guess I mean he acts more like a wild dog than one who wants to be coddled). He has a very active prey drive too, which is weird. Because, he will chase squirrels and rabbits and anything that dare come in the yard, but I don't know if he could actually harm any little creatures if he managed to catch them, because he is so triggered by the high pitched noises of his toys. Anyway, I don't know if this thread is even active anymore but I thought I'd try to help and see if anyone knew anything more about this behavior. |
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