don't know where to post this...nipping at clothes problem
Any suggestions? Is this just normal for a 12 weeks old???? |
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| Lol. It's normal. It would be much weirder if the puppy wasn't nipping! Most of us, if not all, have suffered significant clothes rips and skin pinches from our evil little puppies!
Start teaching your pup right away that nipping is not okay. If the pup goes to nip, make sure you have a toy around to shove in his mouth to "trade" him for whatever he shouldn't be biting. Lots of praise when a toy is in his mouth, not your arm. Some people have had success with squealing and shouting "OUCH!" and turning away but, with our last pup, that just got him more excited. It's not always easy and does takes time but just be consistent and he'll come around. |
ButtersStotch wrote: It's not always easy and does takes time but just be consistent and he'll come around.
my husband would like to know...WHEN??? LOL 
I am sooooo bruised and cut up. She's biting through clothes and jeans and coats. Is she teething at 12 weeks? |
| We, too, had serious nipping problems with Winnie. We would carry around stuffed toys for her, as suggested above. We also found the problem was worse when she was really tired - we underestimated the amount of rest/sleep she needed.
Our trainer said for us to silently remove ourselves from her presence and this she seemed to "get" when she was younger. We'd leave the room when she nipped. Now that she is 7 months old, and occasionally nips when playing we say "OUCH". She gets it now - but didn't when she was a tyke. It just made her more excited. Again, our trainer said any attention - even saying no to her - was attention. Nipping seems to be part of herding instinct, but with Winnie some of the nipping, holding is part of dominance behavior. Hope that helps. We're not experts by any means, but we've learned a little from our fur ball! |
thanks! I really think you are right about the negative attention is at least attention. We've been trying the yipping and that was THE WORST. I swear it made her think we were tiny animals to eat.  Then we tried a firm ouch or no. And she added barking and growling. Then we tried turning our backs to her and ignoring her and she started jumping up and biting us in the back of the legs and butt  . SOooooo RUDE.
I'm trying to figure out how to silently remove ourselves in the back yard. When she gets like this nothing works. We get bitten all the way to the house. For those of you who are wondering-we've tried rolling her. It works with my husband but for me she just gets MAD And I find myself doing this.... 
what to do? What to do???? |
| I have the same problem with Jenny who is also 7 months old. For some reason it is mostly directed at me. I don't think she likes that I go to work during the day. My husband retired early and he is home with her all day so it isn't like she is left alone all day. I have tried, the coins in the can, the loud "ouch", grabbing her mouth and giving a stern "no". My breeder has told me that she should outgrow it -- I hope I have some skin left my then |
| oh I'm so sorry! We should trade pics of how bruised and cut up we are!!!
I am a MESS!
I swear she is trying to eat me. Chiquita is only 12 weeks.....you have a SEVEN MONTH OLD STILL DOING THIS??????? Ahhhhhhhhhhh! |
When Winnie gets totally "zoned" into her puppy crazies, or nipping and jumping, our trainer also suggested a "time out." We'd put her, alone, in a half-bathroom (stripped of anything chewable - like toilet paper  ).
We'd leave her in there only a few minutes - but it seemed to "re-set" her thinking. When we let her out she was much calmer. Perturbed that we'd "won" but calmer. 
Sounds like you have a stubborn, strong-willed pup - like ours. Keep at it. Eventually they "get it." Naps are good, too. We're now in a routine of morning and afternoon naps - 2 hours each time - in her crate. We give her a kong filled with goodies, turn out the light and shut the door. Those two hours a.m. and p.m. are good for ME, too! |
| I really think you all may be on to something huge. I have been saying that our puppy isn't getting enough sleep.
I'm gonna start another post about this...but I think this may be our problem. THANKS!!!!! |
| Hope it helps! I didn't figure it out for a long time - and until I read that many puppies need 12-16 hours of sleep a day! That may be a bit much, but there is research that verifies that young puppies need sleep to help their brains develop. Seems that the puppy brain "processes" while he/she sleeps. Didn't know that.
Also, meant to mention that we really increased the exercise we give Winnie. Am up to walking her about 4 miles a day, plus a lot of play time. Training, too, takes "brain power" on her part and helps wear her out! |
| Yes I really think you are right. I caught on by accident that walking her in the a.m. helps wear her out for the day. Heheheh. The whole a tired dog is a good dog thing. So I've started walking her around 8 a.m.
Question: is it better to have them on a walking schedule? I feed her on schedule. Does it matter to vary up when you walk? Some days a.m some days afternoon? What do you all think? |
| It may help to have a routine. I find some of my dogs are happier that way.
On the other hand, it can be bad if you always do things the same. Then they lose the ability to adapt to changes in their schedule. For example - most training classes are in the evening. But, most shows (obedience, rally, agility, herding) are held during the day. If your dog is only used to thinking in the evening, they may be thrown by the change. I like to mix things up a bit. It helps that my personal schedule is never the same either! |
| We keep Winnie on a pretty regular (but not rigid) schedule. Walks vary in length (depending on weather) and time of day, but we try to get in the amount of miles we go. Do vary up where we go to keep her interest.
But usually it is up and out for short walk and chores in the a.m. Back for feeding (if she doesn't eat we pick it up). Then a little training, followed by rest. After a little rest a LONG walk, then nap. Repeat during the afternoon, with another feeding in the early evening. Found that during the course of the day she would tire more easily. After a good workout in the a.m. it doesn't take much the rest of the day to tire her out. Now that she's 7 months, the walks are longer and the naps a little shorter - but we keep to the nap schedule and it's really helped her behavior. |
DannyboyStephjoy's OES wrote: For those of you who are wondering-we've tried rolling her. It works with my husband but for me she just gets MAD And I find myself doing this.... what to do? What to do???? I'd probably try to focus on more positive methods of training-- OES respond better to a more "hands off" approach. Here's an article that kind of explains the new thinking on the alpha roll. Quote: The Alpha Roll, once hailed as the premier way to prove to your dog who's "Alpha" (Boss) in the family, has been replaced by a gentler, more successful way of training. Now the Alpha Roll, besides being obsolete, has proven to be detrimental to the health and mental well-being of your dog, as well as downright dangerous to the "Roller". What is an Alpha Roll? An Alpha Roll is the act of flipping your dog onto his back, and holding his throat. Supposedly this will teach him that YOU are Alpha, and he will respect you for this. Wrong. Why The Alpha Roll Is Dangerous "The only reason that a dog will FORCEFULLY flip another dog over on its back is to kill the animal. By forcing an animal to submit in that way you are literally putting the fear of death into them, they think you are trying to kill them. It is not surprising that a lot of people get bit trying to do the alpha roll - the dog believes that the human is trying to kill them so they try and defend themselves. Doing this behavior to an already dominant animal can increase the likelihood of aggression. Doing this to an already submissive animal will increase the fear in that animal - leading to submissive urination and possible fear biting. Hands should never, ever be used to hurt an animal - an alpha roll does just that and its efficacy at asserting dominance is next to zero." Something else to consider: Think about how close your face is going to be from those teeth when you alpha roll a big dog. Not very far away. |
| I agree totally. I don't know why Cesar Milan recommends it.
What I tend to do is take her gently by the scruff of the neck and hold her on the ground for 15/30 seconds. It seems to let her calm down. But then when I try to move away from her she attacks again. I just now had this issue. I wish I could take a video of it so you all could tell me what the problem is. Ohhhhh, if only I spoke Dog. I've learned that normally she is trying to tell us something. But I can't for the life of me figure out why the back yard is such a trigger point for her |
| The Cesar Milan roll is a bit different than the alpha roll. It involves putting the dog on its side to calm down, rather than it's back. We actually trained our Komondor to put himself down on his side when he gets too excited. All we have to do is point and tell him to settle down and he lays right down and relaxes. It's really nice and convenient when we need him to cool it. |
| One of the things that you should remember with dogs (espcially puppies ) is that they are pack animals and that you and your family are members of their pack. If puppies are biting and nipping at you, they are pushing the boundries of acceptable behavior in their pack. This means that they think that they might know better than you their human .
A very helpful way to stop biting is to remind them that they are not the ones in charge and that the humans are always in charge. 
I have found it very helpful to scruff younger puppies. Moms will do this with their puppies and it will cause them to get still. It does not hurt, (even if they throw a temper tantrum ) In fact, it actually causes endorphins (feel good chemicals) to be released to help with the calming down the puppy. It is also a great way to remind them that they are out of line, and are in need of time out. I have found this to be a much better way of establishing an alpha status, without getting into a fight with your dog. In addition, it is a very clear way to remind your dogs that you are in charge, in a way that they always understand as this is a behavior that is programmed into the way that they think no matter how old. It just needs to be done slightly differently with older dogs.
Michelle |
| ohhh ok. Well then that's really what we've been doing. We either put her on her side (this is what works for my husband) or I just make her lay down and hold her by the scruff of the neck and make her take a time out on the ground.
Is that bad? Or would you recommend it? |
| We've done that with Winnie a few times, but only when she was really being "crazy."
We found that we had to totally re-think how to raise a puppy. Winnie is an Alpha and will push to dominate everyone and every situation. So, instead of the cute, furry puppy (like the ones I've had before) that you'd hold in your lap and cuddle, we found we had to be the pack leaders ALL the time. That means going first through the door, first up or down the stairs. We eat before she eats. She has to "work" for EVERYTHING. So, she has to "sit" to get food, or get a treat, or go out on the deck or in the yard. We do positive training, which we started with a clicker and reward (turkey dog or small treat) for successful completion of a task. We still do training reinforcement integrated into our daily routines. We've abandoned the clicker (except we do find it useful when we HAVE to get her attention), but we always carry a supply of treats now and give her "random" treats and positive reinforcement when she does something right. That doesn't mean she isn't still without challenges. She very much is. Showing our dominance - by removing ourselves from her presence as in a time-out or removing her through a short, confined time out - is part of our daily lives. But she constantly tests boundaries - just like a kid or a teenager. Consistency and calmness help. Always consistent. Always calm. We still struggle with those times when she - for example - starts chewing out boards from the deck. We want to run out and tell her NO. We do that, but follow it with a short time out (removal from our presence), and then we move on to give her something else to do. Our puppy Winnie is a very, very smart pup who tests us each and every day. So, we keep her tired, and as busy as possible. She gets bored (and in trouble) easily... |
Yes! That's exactly it!!! Others have such nice puppies....and ours??? She is def. DOMINANT. The trainer said she isn't aggressive but she has to regularly be shown who is boss. It really kinda takes the fun out of having a cute little fuzzy puppy. But  that's the way the doggie cookie crumbles .
We read sooooo much about how to pick a puppy and I think we still ended up with a hyperactive dominant super smart puppy. Some days I think I've met my match.
But all things said and done, we do really love her. What a mess. I suppose we'll all survive this. Do you think she'll grow up to be a nice calm dog or will we always have this much of a struggle? |
| Yeh, the "devil" puppies!
We love Winnie, too. And, my husband assures me that she will grow into a beautiful, sweet, loyal, lazy dog. Uh huh. That said, as Winnie gets older, we do have days of total sweetness! We didn't see that much the first few months, but the past month has been SO MUCH better. So, hang in there! Sweet puppy kisses in the morning really are coming. |
hmmm - been there done that? My girl didn't bite me, but she probably chewed on my other pup a little too much 
what ended up working for us in the end after countless trainers, behaviorists, seminars (where she was a case study) etc, was play. I did play with her when she was a puppy - tug and everything, we stopped it when she got to be around a year because we were having issues with her and other dogs. fast forward to the age of three (although it didn't seem fast when we were living through it) and we found another trainer - who pointed out I was no where near enough fun for my dog to really really want to be with me - she behaved for me - but didn't see me as the be all end all of her existence. Okay , says I - why not try this new approach. Hello!!!! My girl is a different animal (no pun intended) she is happy, doesn't beat up on our other dogs and can now walk into a room with other dogs and not try to tell them all off from the get go. Of course there is more to this story, but the one memorable thing I learned from one of my two new trainers - "Dogs live in the minute, if what you are doing doesn't work IMMEDIATELY it is not working" (funny as I typed that I heard his voice )
forget the dominance theory - it has been shown to be based on shakey science. the hardest part for me was looking past all the stuff that sounds right, but doesn't work. Keep looking for the right trainers. if they don't make a difference in your dog in the first session and if they give you more work to do than you can remember (I was never able to be there 100% for my dog, I never could anticipate everything I needed to anticipate) LOOK for ANOTHER TRAINER. I doubt if there is any theory (yes they are all theories) that work with every dog. I wouldn't trade my girl for the world, the smart ones are worth all the effort and you need to give her something to do - we do agility, and herding. find a foundations class and get her out and using that great mind. |
| I just had the worst fit with her. I swear to god this is going from bad to worse. I just don't know what to do with this dog. I thought having a puppy would be work but fun. This is just horrible.
I'm feeling very upset and wondering if this is going to work. Nothing is making this situation better. I think I might try to pay the trainer that we have for puppy school to come to our house and see her in action. And I'm going to try to get my husband to get a video of it. I have got to know if this is what you all are dealing with. She is growling and biting. If I just stand and ignore her she tears me up. Just now she added lunging and hair spiked. WTH??? This is one MAD dog. I'm beginning to think that either I should never have gotten a dog (owner of two cats) or there is something wrong with this puppy. I've double checked and triple checked. She's eating and drinking enough. We go on long walks. She has a big fenced in back yard to play in. What is upsetting her other than ME? Could it be possible that my puppy just hates me? |
| My guess is she doesn't hate you, don't tell anyone but our dogs don't love us either - they just want something from us. usually its food, other times its the opposible thumb they need for world domination, but I digress.
a 12 week old puppy probably doesn't need a long walk. they need short walks and alot of time to explore their world - one or two rooms in your house and the back yard. they need lots of down time. if you don't have a crate and use it a lot the dog may just be over stimulated. they need to fit into your world and that world can't revolve around them. |
DannyboyStephjoy's OES wrote: I just had the worst fit with her. I swear to god this is going from bad to worse. I just don't know what to do with this dog. I thought having a puppy would be work but fun. This is just horrible.
I'm feeling very upset and wondering if this is going to work. Nothing is making this situation better. I think I might try to pay the trainer that we have for puppy school to come to our house and see her in action. And I'm going to try to get my husband to get a video of it. I have got to know if this is what you all are dealing with. She is growling and biting. If I just stand and ignore her she tears me up. Just now she added lunging and hair spiked. WTH??? This is one MAD dog. I'm beginning to think that either I should never have gotten a dog (owner of two cats) or there is something wrong with this puppy. I've double checked and triple checked. She's eating and drinking enough. We go on long walks. She has a big fenced in back yard to play in. What is upsetting her other than ME? Could it be possible that my puppy just hates me? Was it you posting something in another thread about getting your puppy quite young? Like 7 weeks or before? That could be a huge part of the problem. Puppies really need the socialization with their littermates until they're at the very least, 8 weeks old. They learn how to properly play and mouth and all that stuff up until that time. I don't have any advice for a puppy that missed that part of their socialization phase but I know someone who knows more than me will pipe up! |
ButtersStotch wrote: Was it you posting something in another thread about getting your puppy quite young? Like 7 weeks or before? That could be a huge part of the problem. Puppies really need the socialization with their littermates until they're at the very least, 8 weeks old. They learn how to properly play and mouth and all that stuff up until that time.
I realllllllyyyy wish we'd known that. We have two books that said 7 weeks is when to go pick up your puppy. And the breeder was happy to say that she was ready. 
Thank you for letting me vent. It feels good just to get it out. I'm sure it must be me and not her. I just wish I could know what to do to solve it. At this point I'll try it all! Ohh, and we are using a crate. She does fairly well with her crate except during the day. She seems to view it as punishment even though we never use it for punishment. |
| I don't think it is legal in most states to sell a puppy under 8 weeks. they may have been older books? but that won't help you now.
keep crating her as much as you need for your own sanity- give her a chew toy or a kong in the crate. and make sure she gets enough rest and quiet time. If you can find a GOOD daycare whwere they match the puppies up according to sze and temperment - or will put an older wise dog in with rowdy puppies that may help. We got our newf at 13 or 14 weeks and he had horrible doggie manners - he and his brother played way too hard together - even for Newfs. Our daycare matched him with a very stable older and larger dog who wouldn't take his bad behavior and we also sent out older Male OES into daycare once a week to "correct" his behavior. Its work, but it can be made better. |
| I know exactly how you feel - and what you are going through. About when Winnie was 12 weeks, hubby came home and found me crying, so upset about the puppy. For most of the same reasons you have.
Your ideas of videotaping her in action, and getting a trainer to come to the home are both excellent. (Just know that Winnie was a perfect angel when our trainer was at the house.) Winnie needed about 12-14 hours of sleep per day - or quiet time. If your puppy's crate is in a busy part of your home, you might think about moving it to a quiet spot. And/or covering it so the pup can rest. As another noted, puppy could be overstimulated. Winnie has pretty much grown out of the biting, nipping stages now and she is pretty sweet, so maybe yours will grow out of it, too. Also, with Winnie, I got a lot of puppy chews for her - especially for teething, but it also has helped with the nipping. Ice cubes, too. I don't know if our experiences are helping. A good trainer or behaviorist will. Hang in there! |
ButtersStotch wrote: "The only reason that a dog will FORCEFULLY flip another dog over on its back ...
Hello! Just wanted to chime in as well... I know there are a bazillion threads about the alpha roll and Cesar Millan, but I just wanted to point out that he very rarely forces the dog on his back. If you watch him, he is actually pretty gentle, just firm. He gently lies the dog on his side (not his back) and with just one or two fingers keeps him in this position or just says "sht!" when he tries to get up. After just a moment the dog actually voluntarily stays in that position. Cesar actually said in a recent episode, "You don't want to force the dog into this position"....Remember, too, the little disclaimer at the bottom of the screen telling you not to do this without consulting a professional since it isn't something everyone is completely comfortable with or completely understands. With regards to nipping, I know there are mixed thoughts on tug of war games with your puppy, but for me personally I found out that as soon as I actually started playing TUG with Tucker with toys meant specifically for that, he almost stopped nipping my clothes immediately. I guess I gave him a proper outlet for this desire? Also, if it's teething, a large hand towel can be wet then frozen for them to chew on - Tucker LOVED it as a pup! (JUst make sure it isn't small enough to swallow). Hope this helps! |
| I'm glad to report that the day ended up nice and calm. She took a long nap and then went in the crate at 7. She came out around 10 and went back in at 11. Today she is nipping but I'm working hard not to react AT ALL. She seems to be realizing that I'm no fun when she does that.
I think you all were very right about her not getting enough sleep and down time. I've also been working on not going over and petting her. I notice that my husband pets her a lot less. And so I started getting down and inviting her to me. Sometimes she comes happily and other times no. It gave me the idea that mabey I'm invading her space a bit too much. It's a thought that I got from that show "It's me or the Dog". Well, here's hoping that today goes better. Thank you for all of your support. You all really, really helped me yesterday. |
DannyboyStephjoy's OES wrote: Thank you for all of your support. You all really, really helped me yesterday. Isn't this just the nicest group of people on the Internet? I don't know how Ron finds everybody |
kerry wrote: Isn't this just the nicest group of people on the Internet? I don't know how Ron finds everybody That's the nicest thing, but the real credit goes to all of you who continue to make this the friendliest forum in the world. I am constantly amazed. |
| Kerry, I believe you mentioned "playing too rough". How does one know if the playing is too rough? |
aimee wrote: Kerry, I believe you mentioned "playing too rough". How does one know if the playing is too rough?
good question - hard to tell with an OES sometimes isn't it? |
kerry wrote: aimee wrote: Kerry, I believe you mentioned "playing too rough". How does one know if the playing is too rough? good question - hard to tell with an OES sometimes isn't it? Easy: blood gets on the floor.  |
| Yes they all do it and u have to have a plan when moon ray starts i tell him do u want to dance have him bring his paws up and dance. LOL it con fuses him but it works or tell him to get a tug toy and play tug or give him a bone beef bone works best with him he chews till he's tiered. I also telll him to sit stop and kiss him on his head it all seems to work for mine. He's a lovey |
| GOOD NEWS! Well things seem to have improved drastically.
We have figured out that our puppy hated being on a leash in the house (per the instructions in a book). Also that she needs to sleep a whole lot more! Now when she gets mean she gets two warnings. By warnings I mean-told no and redirected to something she is allowed to do. If she doesn't stop the unwanted behavior then in the crate or outside she goes. The alone time calms her down instead of letting it escalate. Or 9 out of 10 times she goes to sleep. She then wakes up a very nice angel dog. Some times are still really hard but it's not like before. I've also learned not to talk so much. Just correct without emotion. And if she doesn't listen then I'm not being sentimental about "too" much time in the crate. She's fine. In fact she's happier. ahhhhhhhh |
| That is WONDERFUL news!
Keep with it. The pup will turn out great over time. We've found that each day is an adventure - Winnie will one day be sweet, and the next she will be "sassy."
So, every day is a new one. Delighted to hear it's better! |
| great news!! you might want to just automatically remove her when she misbehaves - at that age making the cnnection might be easier to whata she is or isn't supossed to do - of course you could try the distraction but I would keep the no's to a inimum. my new trainer says her youngest dog has never heard her say no. |
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