Training question
We took Sammie to her first training class last night and for the most part, she did well. Sam is PERFECT for us at home. No accidents, no chewing, no nothing. Very mild mannered, well behaved, and just LOVES to be with her people. All that, coupled with the fact that she grew up with another dog (not a sheepie) and lived with Nita's 2 sheepies in foster care, I thought she'd do great around the other dogs at training. The trainer I'm taking her to, Ali, comes very highly recommended and I must say I'm very impressed with her so far. There are 5 dogs in our class, two lab mixes, a Wheaton terrier, and a dog who's breed escapes me, but his physical description is that he is massive, all muscle, has a huge head with a forehead that protrudes and a square jaw and face. Ali has "tie-outs" in the room - 6' leather leashes tethered to the wall that you attach to your dog's collar, so the dogs are not in each other's space as we train. We practiced quite a few things, and it all went pretty well. Until the end, when Ali wants to let them play together for a few minutes to see how they react to each other. She asked the owners of the big dog to take him outside first, because he's known for not liking to play. She saw that Sammie was more laid-back during the class, and with the two pretty hyper lab mixes there, the trainer was a bit apprehensive so we all stayed close. No big deal, I thought. She's used to being around other dogs. Wrong! Sure enough, Sam got afraid. The lab mixes (one adult female rescue, and one 6 month old boy) just tore around the building at mach speed, and when they got near Sam, she kinda freaked. She sat down, bared her teeth, and when they went to jump on her back, she snapped at them. So the trainer fenced off an area just for Sam and we just let her watch the others. Sam started out okay with the Wheaton but maybe it was just because she got afraid of the labs that she eventually got afraid of the terrier, too. So she stayed alone (with me) in her own area until we left. Dale went with me to training and he has always been against dogs playing ever since we went down to Philly to meet Val (with Chum and Maggie) and Mandy (with Norman, Carl and Toby) and Carl got attacked by a pit bull, so this didn't help change his mind any. Ali thought maybe she'd try the massive dog with Sam next week, and I'm thinking to myself - Are you kidding me?? He doesn't like to play and you want to put him in with my marshmallow? We came to the conclusion that Sam's hesitation comes from a variety of sources - she's a herding dog and doesn't like to see other dogs running around if she can't herd them (the "fun police" as Ali calls it), and just her basic semi-submissive personality. I really don't know how we're going to get her around this, but I hope we can. We had a friend visit us around the holidays who has a border collie mix, and Sam and she ran around the back yard, but didn't interact much, if that makes sense. They ran towards each other, then away, but didn't do the butt smelling, jumping on each other play. So maybe that's why I thought she'd be okay playing with these other dogs. That, and the fact that she grew up with a dog and lived with Nita's two for 3 weeks. What do you think? |
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I think you summed it up really well and I also think she needs to not be playing with the other dogs since it's going to stress her out. And some dogs really don't like rude dogs. I know. I have rude dogs 
Just tonight Mace got up from a down stay while I was helping the instructor adjust the a-frame and very casually sauntered over to an on-leash aussie and stuck her nose right in her face. The Aussie had every right to tell the little itch where she could stick her rude little nose, but she didn't. Mace had no business doing that. Very bad social manners. And if you have a group of socially ill-mannered dogs (they can be sweet and illmannered), you're just setting Sam up to be stressed out. She KNOWS what they're doing is over the line rude. A group of rude dogs can do that happily to each other and get over it, but some dogs really are not thrilled about it and well within their rights to feel that way. Consider just politely saying that you think it's too much for her right now and take her outside or whatever. That's not a sign that she has issues, merely that she has boundaries and the play overwhelmed them. I take my dogs to training to train. There is socialization value in teaching them to control themselves around other dogs. They don't have to be best buds. Just peacefully coexist. My Mad never cared about any other dogs. Still doesn't. She doesn't get upset with them. She doesn't get stressed. She just doesn't want to waste her time on them, thank you very much. Her games all include me and some piece of equipment and/or a toy. She'll tolerate the upstarts by not giving them a second glance, but there is nothing in it for her except proving that she will tolerate their boring boorishness with good albeit bored grace. 
She feels a bit differently about her own get and will run circles around them when they play with each other, barking at them to mind their manners, with a big grin on her face. But that's her right as THEIR MOTHER  And her assessment is spot on. They're RUDE.
It's OK for a dog not to be a play-aholic around other dogs. Kind of nice from a training perspective come to think of it. Kristine |
| Ditto what Kristine said. I can NEVER understand why some instructors feel all dogs should get along! Humans don't like all other humans so why would you figure dogs would? Sorry but I wouldn't even be "nice" about the issue. I'd tell her I am sorry but I do NOT want my dog "playing" with the other dogs. End of conversation on that point. Bottom line is you have to do what you feel comfortable doing with you & your dog. A good trainer will be able to adjust the lessons to the individual dogs even in a classroom setting. In another words, what works for say a Rottweiler just doesn't work for an OES. |
| Thanks, Kristine and Marilyn! I'm relieved to hear that I don't really have to force Sam to play with the other dogs. I thought the same thing, about how not all humans get along so it only stands to reason that not all dogs would either.
She actually is SO good at home with just us. And she loves ALL people, bar none. So when we're training and doing "around the world" where each person goes to the next dog, gives a sit command and gives a treat, she does great - no fear of other people. The trainer has two classes back to back. I think I may ask if we can switch to the earlier class. That one only has 4 dogs in it, and one of them is a 6 mo old sheepie! Have to find out what other breeds are in that one first. Again, thanks so much for your replies and verification! |
| I totally agree with what's been said. Some dogs don't want to play with others and some dogs just don't play well with others. I don't even mean that they're mean or can't play, but I think sometimes a certain dog can change the dynamic of a group and then it changes the behavior of the group. Bear seems to have that innate ability.
As an aside, it isn't imperative that all dogs must go to dog parks, either, though a lot of people would disagree! About once every month or so I try to take Bear because I want to be able to take him but he has a way of making other dogs nervous and getting other dogs upset without really doing anything. Their barking upsets him, which in turn upsets Clyde and Owen and they all turn into a pack of raving crazies. Clyde and Owen alone are no problem at all but it's almost like if we take Bear, they find some sort of inner strength, like the power of three, and they get obnoxious. The worst part is, it's not even that I care about taking Bear to the park, it's the sad look I get when I leave him home. It's heartbreaking. |
| I agree with above...She was overwhelmed with the in your face labs, this is a labby thing, they all think the world wants then in their face. I would not let that larger dog (that dosen't play well) interact with your sammy. You are there to train , teach your dog commands. Social time can come later I used a trainer once that would not let dogs unteract till the last class and that was only if you wanted to. |
I agree too - unless its a puppy socialization class, why pay for playtime. My instructor barely lets the people socialize. we are there to work  |
| I am in agreement with everyone here. Dogs are like people in that they have their own personalities and like some dogs better than others.
Harry - the PLAY HO - will play with almost anything as indicated by his nickname. Yet there are a couple of dogs that he has no chemistry with and whenever we are with one of those dogs he doesn't even attempt to play anymore. I try to be respectful of other dogs, like Kristine stated, when my dog is being the rude one. You have nothing to apologize for and YOU are the only one who can speak for her in the human world. I sometimes forget that regarding Harry because he is usually the problem but occasionally I remember to be his mouthpiece. |
| We sometimes have to stand up to protect our dogs from both physical and psychological harm that others can impose on them. I feel that in the end, it's MY dog and I know his/her limits and quirks best. I'm paying an instructor to teach me how to make a good dog based on positive experiences. I'd rather see a trainer who coaxed rather than forced.
I'd rather err on the side of caution rather than kick myself for allowing my dog to be ruined. We switched trainers after two puppy classes and simply left our $100 prepaid fee because of something that happened in class... Quote: I try to be respectful of other dogs, like Kristine stated, when my dog is being the rude one.
Yeah, me too. Bumble's a goofy in-your-face guy and I have to step in to stop that behavior with dogs that don't appreciate it.  |
| Ditto to all above, I would never force my dogs because of an instructor to play with another if they were not happy with the other dog.
I would also be weary of causing more problems by forcing the situation. Let Sam choose who she wants to romp with not the insttructor forcing her if another dog is too rough with her or snaps at her it can change her and make her fearfull. Yes training lessons are great and so is the socialisation aspect with all dogs under controll on a lead so nothing detrimental happens to your precious. But forcing dogs not matched in energy, size, temperament etc together can make a dog anxious and fearfull. Eventually as she keeps going to training there will be ones that she will want to socialise with off lead when she gets to know them in class and on a lead sniffing and taking it slowly. I always say let them choose and take an interest not force the situation of having too. |
| I agree with everyone also. Jenny will play with any dog any day any time. She thinks all dogs want to play with her. But we are also very cautious because of her good nature we always make sure that the other dog is good with other dogs. The last thing I want is her having a bad experience and changing her entire personality. |
Jancyp wrote: I agree with everyone also. Jenny will play with any dog any day any time. She thinks all dogs want to play with her. But we are also very cautious because of her good nature we always make sure that the other dog is good with other dogs. The last thing I want is her having a bad experience and changing her entire personality.
you also want to make sure se doesn't get in the face of another dog without her confidence. it really isn't fair to the other dog and you never know when you'll want the same consideration from another handler. |
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