Do dogs think things over? Do they make decisions?
We've been working hard on behaviour with company. It's become very obvious that he needs to be on leash when people arrive. We've been working on making him sit/stay and then be approached, but he's still too crazy, so he has been saying his hellos while we try to make him stay, but there's no way to directly calm him down, so he then gets put in his kennel for a bit (often long enough for us to eat dinner), and then he rejoins us once he's calmed. This has been working well. He is still excited, but there's no jumping and carrying on and he's been able to be a part of things for the remainder of the evening, which is nice. On New Year's Day we had my parents over for dinner and that was how it happened. When my husband later let him out of his kennel, he walked him toward the door first, for a potty break. Hudson ran away from my husband and ran to the dining room table where the rest of us were sitting. My hubby called him and he did a mid air direction change/jump and began to run back toward the door. But, apparently, our mere presence in the dining room called to him so he changed directions again and ran back. But before he got to us he had a change of heart and wanted to go outside so he again stopped and jumped the other way. He physically changed directions seven or eight times before he finally continued all the way out. I know I can't explain this well, but these were back to back 180 course corrections at a very good pace. It was hilarious to watch. It was like the little angel and the little devil on each shoulder were fighting for dominance, and his body kept following along. Today a friend and I went shopping. I bought a small area rug and he helped me carry it in. There was no warning, and Hudson was free in the house and came to investigate. I grabbed him by the collar (and frankly, by much of his dog suit too) as he tried to throw himself at full speed out the door. No prep, no pattern, I didn't expect much from him under those conditions. My friend put the carpet down on the floor, said good-bye quickly as he ran out and closed the door. I released Hudson. He flew to the door, bum wagging like crazy. But then... He stopped dead and sat perfectly. It lasted a few seconds (longer than when we were trying to teach him to do it), and then the excitement took over and he jumped vertically in the air. He ran about ten feet away from the door, sat back down looking at it, and did a beautiful sit/stay. About ten seconds later he jumped again, moved about five feet to the side (keeping the same distance from the door - right about where we've been trying to train him), and sat/stayed beautifully. Then, he looked right at me and cocked his head as if to say, "Okay, I'm following your stupid rule. Make him come back." I was flabbergasted.  Throughout this whole performance I just stood by and watched him and it sure looked like he was thinking this through!
I'm probably reading way too much into things, but I swear I've now seen this dog problem solve, step by step, twice. I think the reason he can be so evil is that he is so very smart. We're in big trouble. |
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 sounds just like what Henry does |
| I'm not sure if its step by step but yes I have seen the problem solving.
I'm not sure if this is a good thing... |
| I do think that animals "problem solve." I also feel that people do not give animals enough credit when it comes to intelligents.
Regarding the dog all excited when people come over...I read on this forum and saw on dog obediance shows that if you put the dog in a room before you let your company in...great you guest and after a little while, maybe 5 minutes let the dog enter the room....the dog will be calmer. I have tried this with all three of my girls and it does, indeed, work. All three of my girls get so excited when I return home that I have trained them to let me sitdown on the chair in the kitchen before I pet them. So then I can give all three wigglebums my undivided attention. lol |
I have often wondered about this too. I have seen Pearl in her directed disobedient mode--I will call her from outside and she will look at me....and turn away  but then she is immediately go wet and run in. It's like she is independently'thinking' ---
I know there must be a thought process going on--- There are many examples of Pearls' thinking while we are on a therapy visit.. I will direct her to a particular person...but she will go off on her own, so to speak, picking out a certain patient and concentrating on 'drawing' them out. Again, is she sensing that 'that' person needs her more??? It's not something that I taught her...so why??? When Heart figures out how to get to the paper towels...??? When Coz goes and takes a pillow and runs to his tuffet??? These, are all examples of problem solving thought processes....IMO...But I am like you..I tend to humanize my puppers...maybe it's just me.....  
Like 'violet'...I always 'stay' the dogs on their tuffet when people come in..after a couple of minutes, they are allowed to greet and then back to the tuffet. If someone wants more time with one of them, they go to the tuffet to visit...If there is only a handful of people, the dogs are free, but if they become intrusive...back to the tuffet!!!!! |
| In theory herding breeds are selectively bred for their problem solving capacity there isn't a script with sheep.
it is part of what akes them harder to train that say a poodle which is more likely to want to please thsn to figure out how to get the toy and the treat  . |
| We used to let the dogs on our furniture. They loved the couch and one of the chairs in the living room.
Ben walked in the living room one day II was sitting in the other chair), sees the girls on the couch. He walks over to the dining room windows and stats barking - at nothing. The girls jump up, barking, and run to the window.,,,, while Ben takes over the couch. It took the girls 5 minutes to figure it and Ben was well settled by then. I wish I'd had my camera. |
| Summer was laying in the middle of the kitchen floor this morning, full stretch, not really as much in the way as normal. I stepped over her, and usually say "go and get on your bed, you are in the way!" but in the same tone I said "you are alright I can manage." She sighed and put her head down. Hubby was astonished she must have understood me, and I just assumed she moved when I stepped over her! |
Quote: The girls jump up, barking, and run to the window.,,,, while Ben takes over the couch.
Oh, that happens here too. Somebody wants on the couch but it is occupied..........so they face the door and bark, the others jump to their feet and run to the door, while the barker calmly selects their position on the couch. The others come back, "What??" and then go find new spots to occupy. Husband doesn't realize what's happening and wants to scold the barker, I have to hush him up. Yes, I am "She who must be obeyed!" |
| When we were reading up on OES's, one of the curious things that kept coming up was that they're obedient, but if they think they know a better way, they'll do it their own way. I think Hudson is hitting this on the head. He knows what you're asking him to do, but he so wants to do it a different way. Sunny's the same way, she'll fly up and down the hallway between my husband who's standing at the front door with his coat on, ready to leave, and me in the living room telling her "Kennel, Sunny, kennel, Sunny come here, kennel". She knows that she's supposed to be obeying me and going into her kennel, but she wants to be at the door to say good bye to us (or to come with us). So she flip flops between what she knows and what she wants. We're just trying to be consistent with her and praise her when she finally picks the right one!
Have fun with his antics, as bad as the behavior is, it's adorable at the same time. |
kerry wrote: In theory herding breeds are selectively bred for their problem solving capacity there isn't a script with sheep.
it is part of what akes them harder to train that say a poodle which is more likely to want to please thsn to figure out how to get the toy and the treat .This is very true. They are not just companion dogs. They were bred to work along side & help humans with their work. Alot of these dogs are bery biddable. But you will run into a few (and I've had a few of them) that you realize you have to get inside their head! Once you can do that you have it "made in the shade". They either have figured out a better & faster way to accomplish the task & we need to take a look at the idea, or you have to convince them that your idea really is their idea. Makes them ever so much more fun to work with & train. You are working with a dog with a brain.....not a robot! |
Mine make decisions all the time: bad decisions.  |
ButtersStotch wrote: Mine make decisions all the time: bad decisions.
That's because they are BOYS!!!!!!! |
ChSheepdogs wrote: ButtersStotch wrote: Mine make decisions all the time: bad decisions. That's because they are BOYS!!!!!!! I know. Three boys working together to "problem solve" never ends well! |
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