Possessive over bone but not food
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| obviously the bone has a higher value than the food.
I can take a bone out of Morgan and or Marley's mouths even if there is meat still on it (and I got there by doing it periodically when they were younger - silly me I assumed Hubby was doing this with the Newf) A couple of days ago Beowlf growled at me when I went to take his food dish away form him - he wasn't finished. I yelled Hey so loud hubby came running and Beowulf sat down away from the dish - where I made him stay while i picked up the dish and made him wait. I need to do that periodically now - and I asked dan to do it while I was busy the other night. I noticed he seemed very tentative when doing it - which feeds into B's feeling of superiority. I added Mine! by Jeanne Donaldson to my must read this month book list and I would recommend you do the same. |
| Or, I'd avoid giving those bones anymore. Resource guarding isn't always an easy or fast thing to overcome. I think it can be doable but sometimes the simplest solution can suffice, too. |
| perfect timing!
i was going to start a post on this same subject.... might as well just add to the mix instead. for Christmas i bought a rawhide bone for each of my two dogs. peeps loves them -- batman can live without them (ingrate) anyway, my son in law sees peeps chewing on batman's bone and tries to take it from her. i hear her growl at him (i was doing the dishes) and i tell him to leave her be. SIDE NOTE: i can take away anything from peeps no problem - and to avoid any potential danger i never give her anything to munch on when the grandbaby is around my other daughter (not the wife of son in law) tells me i should have corrected peeps. i try to explain to her that i wanted to communicate with the one that had the better chance of listening to me quickly  and that was my son in law!
for some reason, it turned to an argument. i am of the mind that you should avoid getting bit! peeps is my dog, so she has a certain respect for me, and i give and take away. i would never attempt to take YOUR dog's bone!
no matter how well trained a pooch may be, how sweet and gentle, there are things like instinct to be aware of. i would much prefer that my son in law NOT get bit and me just take away the bone rather than trying to discipline peeps only to have her potentially bite on another day. i think i'm right -- but i may have been the only one in the house that agreed with me at the time. what do you think? |
peeps wrote: i would much prefer that my son in law NOT get bit and me just take away the bone rather than trying to discipline peeps only to have her potentially bite on another day.
i think i'm right -- but i may have been the only one in the house that agreed with me at the time. what do you think? I think your son-in-law has the cognitive capacity of most young children and neither should be allowed around dogs unsupervised, period, for that reason. Frankly, the ideal is a dog who will let anyone take anything from them. Most dogs don't come hardwired that way because there is no survival value to letting everyone and their BIL abscond with their resources!!!  Dogs who will are either naturally sweet and easy to live with, or proofed to the nth degree to tolerate human oddities, but neither group is the norm and they deserve to be protected from the cognitively deficient of any age as much as the next dog.
That said, would I have corrected her for growling? Heck no! All you'd be doing is exstinguishing the one thing that could save someone from actually getting bit some day: her willingness to warn (growl) BEFORE biting. Growling is not generally taken seriously by the cognitively deficient for obvious reasons, but it gives their caretakers time to get them away from the dog. 
I'd still work on her resource guarding beyond you by using some kind of trade-up method (Kerry?), because despite your best efforts to protect her, some day some idiot or kid will do that to her again. If you teach her that giving something up usually results in either getting something even higher value or getting it right back, then it's not such a big deal, so she doesn't have to growl (or potentially bite) Kristine |
| I'm with ButterStoch on this one. I have Ben and Fozzie and fosters in and out, and nobody gets a treat that can't be eaten in more than a minute or two.
I thought my Fozzie didn't have a growl in him, but darned if he didn't growl when my husband attempted to take away his Christmas present rawhide. We didn't want a dog fight breaking out over it when we left the house and we thought it better to take it away and give it back when we returned. Now back to the rules. No bones. |
I give my resource quarders high value treats in their cages. gives us a ll a break  |
| the importance of growling never occurred to me!
but i'm sure they would have "bit" my head off if i told them that little tidbit.
i did think that it was common knowledge or at least common sense when it comes to dogs and bones -- evidently not. Quote: I'd still work on her resource guarding beyond you by using some kind of trade-up method (Kerry?), because despite your best efforts to protect her, some day some idiot or kid will do that to her again. If you teach her that giving something up usually results in either getting something even higher value or getting it right back, then it's not such a big deal, so she doesn't have to growl (or potentially bite)
that's a great idea. Something Funny... when peeps "opened" her Christmas present she was so funny. she carried it around to everybody so that we could all see what she got. she did the same thing last Christmas and i expect she'll do it next as well. i think she loves Christmas |
| so what is the protocol when you reach the top of the treat hierarchy? or in Beowilf's case dinner? He will take a treat when I take his dinner - and drop it on the floor. obviously he doesn't like my trades |
kerry wrote: so what is the protocol when you reach the top of the treat hierarchy? or in Beowilf's case dinner? He will take a treat when I take his dinner - and drop it on the floor. obviously he doesn't like my trades
A real girlie-girl kind of Newfie?   
<hey, value is in the eye of the beholder and not always connected to the stomach but, on occasion, possibly other organs...  )
KB |
Mad Dog wrote: kerry wrote: so what is the protocol when you reach the top of the treat hierarchy? or in Beowilf's case dinner? He will take a treat when I take his dinner - and drop it on the floor. obviously he doesn't like my trades A real girlie-girl kind of Newfie? <hey, value is in the eye of the beholder and not always connected to the stomach but, on occasion, possibly other organs... )KB oh soooo not funy |
| In our multiple dog household, anything that can cause a fight gets picked up and not added to the mix of all the dogs. If it is worthwhile, they get them separately in crates or babygated off from the rest.
The dogs deserve to enjoy the treat/toy in peace and not be put in the position of defending it. It just creates stress and makes bad habits form. Because they never have become defensive, mine all let me remove anything if I want to. They either get lots of attention and praise, a better treat or trade-up item. By avoiding the negative situation, to never let it happen, you come out way ahead  |
got sheep wrote: In our multiple dog household, anything that can cause a fight gets picked up and not added to the mix of all the dogs. If it is worthwhile, they get them separately in crates or babygated off from the rest.
I don't pick stuff up. Raw turkey necks, new chewie bones, they all get them at once, all in the same area and they've all quickly learned that posssion is 9/10ths, even the resident foster who came with resource guarding issues but now eats and chews right along with the rest of them. What they DO do is try to fake the others into leaving the good stuff, oh, say by barking at an imaginary person at the front door. Who ever falls for it quickly returns to find their prizes stolen and/or devoured by someone else.
It may be sneaky, but it is peaceful. Kristine |
| I do agree, you can do that safely. You have one breed and almost all of them are related and raised together. You also know what you are doing. That makes a big difference.
Mine are extremes in size, breed and background. It just wouldn't be the smartest thing to do for us. They all do so well as a group, I don't want to upset the balance by risking doing something like that.  |
| I am a good one for eliminating a problem before it becomes one. Melody taught me this. All you need is to live with a very intelligent & very dominant bitch to realize that even if you have the same breed & they are the same size, it just isn't worth it. For this reason my dogs only know that nylabones come in the plain flavor, steribones are always white, have no filling & are never basted & a new stuffed toy means "supervised recess". We had rawhides for a short while when she was our only dog & she was just a pup. We could take food out of her mouth but give her a rawhide & she guarded it with her life. So those went by the wayside early in life. Now that she's gone I really don't need to do this anymore as my 3 are all very laid back & no one really wants to assume the top dog roll. And where any food/treat is concerned my biggest problem is Mariah pushing the others out of the way to get theirs because they didn't eat it fast enough! |
got sheep wrote: I do agree, you can do that safely. You have one breed and almost all of them are related and raised together. You also know what you are doing. That makes a big difference.
You're right. And also they're very similar in temperament. They're all softer dogs and nobody is interested in a scuffle. The only issue I had to address was when I fed Mad and Belle next to each other, Mad would inhale her food and then reach down and grab Belle's bowl and run off with it. Belle would always look at me: "MOM!!!" and I'd have to chase Mad down and bring Belle's bowl back. I solved that by feeding Belle first and Mad last.
The only thing they get weird about is my bedroom and especially my bed. No foster dogs are allowed into the bedroom unless Mace says so. That usually takes about a week. She just lays in the doorway and glares a them until she decides it's OK for them to enter. And then they aren't allowed on the bed unless Mace AND Sybil say so, which is just as well, since not everyone wants their dog to sleep on the bed. Mature visiting bitches owned by friends may come in and may also sleep on the bed, but visiting neutered males and puppy bitches may only enter the bedroom. Visiting intact males - that would be their brother Chewie, and their dad, Luke - are not even allowed in the bedroom, but must sleep in the hall!!!
Their neutered brother is, evidently, a non-entity, because he may sleep on the bed. Only Mace and Sybil care about these rules. Belle, Mad and Liz just want a good night's sleep
The really nice thing about their lack of resource guarding otherwise is that foster dogs like Daphne, who may be predisposed to it, find that since no one is going to take their food, chewies, treats etc, there really is no reason to resource guard. She's come such a long way. I'm really proud of her. Kristine |
| Simon used to growl if I walked past his dish if he was eating. I fixed this by hand feeding him.
With two male dogs...arguments sometimes break out. Fifteen million bones laying around and Simon only wants the one Gar is chewing on. Its sometimes funny to watch...Gar laying quietly chewing on a bone and Simon laying with his head on his paws...waiting. Gar gets distracted, Simon snaps up the bone and runs off. This past Christmas, both got two new bones to chew on. Simon wants what Gar has...must taste better. Gar gets mad if Simon tries to take it away and I have two dogs growling and snapping. I take the bone away and put it where they can't get it....later they get it back, and a baby gate goes up. Back to the orginal question. Give the bone to the dog...but hold on to it at the same time. He gets one side and you get the other. Let him chew for a little while and then put it away. Do this several times a day for a few WEEKS and the problem should be solved. He should let you take the bone away after this. If he doesn't...no more bones. |
| I liked the idea of holding it in your hand. Seems like the best solution to me.
PJ will let you take anything out of his mouth with out a growl, and he is a rescue dog. He will hold on to it until you reach in there and get it but thats all. I have recently started buying him marrow bones at the grocery store, because I was told they were good for dogs and that they wouldn't splinter. These must be his favortite because if I try to take one of them away he gets up and moves to a new location. But he still doesnt growl. |
| Thanks for the trick Simons Mom, never thought to try holding the bone while she chews on it. I'm going to try this tonight after the kiddies go to bed. |
| Every one in awhile a good idea pops up. |
| I tried holding her bone and it works great!! I have still not let her have the bone on her own but while the bone is in my hand she licks it and chews on it but does not growl or show teeth. Maybe another seven days or so of this and I will let her have the bone on her own again. If she goes back to growling, etc, then I suppose I will either have to stop with the big bones or hold them for her to lick. I have also found that this works well to make her stay still when I am brushing her. I used small milkbones and held part on the bone with my left hand while I brushed with my right hand. Jackson held the bone in her mouth and stayed perfectly still for the brushing. We took periodic breaks so she could eat the bone and then start over with a new one. It was hard to get certain spots brushing one handed, but this was by far the best she has ever been while brushing!! |
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