Breeder info
We are going to look at a puppy |
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| Only info I know is they are a member of OESCA. That's a good sign. Sorry can't be of any help. |
shon wrote: Only info I know is they are a member of OESCA. That's a good sign. Sorry can't be of any help.
Hmmmm. I don't see them listed in my 2007-2008 roster. Am I missing the listing? |
| I found them on the OESCA website under Breeder Referrals
http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamer ... /east.html |
| That is where I looked. They were located at the bottom. |
ljbirns wrote: I found them on the OESCA website under Breeder Referrals
http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamer ... /east.html I looked that up after you posted this information. The lady listed there is not the same one as I have always known as the breeder of Shaggybark kennels. Thus my previous statement. Perhaps this person co-breeds with the original person? Also, I noticed the one listed on the breeder referral page is located in a different city (Mechanicsville) than the original poster mentioned they were going to see the puppy (Richmond) where the original person I knew as Shaggybark lives. |
| Thanks for the info, did not not catch the different cities. |
| Yes, they co-breed. |
| Mechanicsville is Richmond, well, like 5 minutes from there. Richmond is really small, but there are lots of adjacent towns or suburbs that have their own names, but often are referred to as Richmond.
Is it a lady with a rhyming name who owns the kennel? |
Quote: Is it a lady with a rhyming name who owns the kennel?
haha, i never noticed that the name rhymed! i've never heard anything negative about her dogs. |
| When you go, ask her why she isn't a member of OESCA anymore. |
| Looks like they are members of OESCA...
I recently met a very nice puppy here in NC that came from NJ Shaggeybark!! We should have a play date soon... My Wilby came from Shaggeybark line and they were very supportive through his life and his passing. Good Luck |
| Gail and Cheryl are two of the nicest people you will ever meet. They helped me out when i first started back on the east coast. Good healthy, great temperment dogs.
It is after Gail's Chrysanthumum butt that i have forever been trying to 'reproduce' all these years.......... lol. But very nice people you will like. I don't believe Gail is a member of OESCA anymore........... but I know Cheryl is. Ali |
| just recently purchased a pup from gail.....the pup is in beautiful condition and Gail could not have been nicer. She believes in breeding for temperment and quality dogs. We have owned 2 other OES - also from a very reputable breeder. Our current pup is a real gem. Best of luck to you and your venture into OES ownership. It is quite a journey. They are very special dogs. |
| My wife and I have purchased three different OES's from Gail over the years and we consider her to be a good friend. She is a good breeder who stands behind her dogs and I would definitely recommend her for your purchase. Know that she might put you through the "wringer" to be sure that you are prepared for a commitment to a Sheepie, but that is her doing her job of protecting the breed. Please feel free to email me if you want a reference, as I have had several sheepdogs over 35 years and I can tell you a lot about what to look for in a good dog and what you are getting into. Ian Bush Email:ianabush@gmail.com |
| Gail Swails (the originator of Shaggeybark) resigned her OESCA membership in 2000 or 2001 rather than participate in a disciplinary hearing. A puppy buyer brought charges against her for selling an unhealthy puppy. There was a write-up about the charges and the case against her in the club magazine "The Old English Times". The people who are listed on the OESCA site co-own with Swails and were mentored by Swails. What's the saying, "You're known by the company you keep?"  |
| That is a pretty petty remark. I resigned my membership because I was tired of the politics and people bringing people up on charges because of their own personal agenda. I was one of them. I was on the board when Gail was brought up on charges and there were no bounds....... but because some of the people that were 'threatened' by Gail had such pull she did what she did. Just as I did . And this club is in serious trouble again. |
| The facts are the facts, Ali. The puppy buyer had testimony from her veterinarian to support her case. How could your friend Gail Swails defend herself against that? The veterinarian wasn't an OESCA member so where were the politics? The puppy buyer wasn't an OESCA member either. It takes a lot of hard core evidence to get the OESCA Board to get to the point of bringing charges against someone. It doesn't happen often. There's nothing petty about any of it and shame on you for suggesting that. You should be more concerned about the welfare of a defenseless puppy (who didn't survive, if my memory serves me) than hyping your old crony friend who produces a disturbingly high number of litters each year. |
| First shame on you. Who are you to pass judgement and say these things and hide behind not putting your name out there? WHO ARE YOU? And the pup is still alive for your information. I was on that board and I DO know what happened. WERE YOU? Gail and I are acquaintances thats all. But if she needed a friend i would help and be there. No it doesn't take a lot of hard core evidence. I can tell you that from A. having been on the board and B having had charges brought up against me. There are others that have resigned as well over the years. It's a bunch of petty jealous nonsense 99% of the time. Take alook at some of the members today that produce up to 70 or more puppies in a year. I personally have had phone calls of people crying about things wrong with these pups looking for what to do...........they don't want to give the pup back but don't want to keep it either from the problems they have. I don't know hwat beef you have with Gail but that was a very low blow. Gail & her co breeders produce beautiful well tempermented nand very healthy oes. so YES i say This was petty and shame on you. I stand by that! |
Ali wrote: Take a look at some of the members today that produce up to 70 or more puppies in a year. I personally have had phone calls of people crying about things wrong with these pups looking for what to do...........they don't want to give the pup back but don't want to keep it either from the problems they have. Is this a mistake.... ????? Are you saying some of the members of OESCA have up to 70 pups in one year ??????? I thought OESCA was the breeders of choice.... the cream of the crop..... You can not be correct in this statement, 70 pups in one year ????? From one breeder ??????? This just can not be true. |
Sheepdog Lover wrote: Take alook at some of the members today that produce up to 70 or more puppies in a year. I personally have had phone calls of people crying about things wrong with these pups looking for what to do...........they don't want to give the pup back but don't want to keep it either from the problems they have. Is this a mistake.... ????? Are you saying some of the members of OESCA have up to 70 pups in one year ??????? I thought OESCA was the breeders of choice.... the cream of the crop..... You can not be correct in this statement, 70 pups in one year ????? From one breeder ??????? This just can not be true. Some of the top breeders may have breeding dogs and bitches all over the country that are technically "their" litters. They could do eight or nine breedings in a year (if they were really busy!) and produce a lot of pups. That is, by far, NOT the norm, though. |
Sheepdog Lover wrote: Is this a mistake.... ????? Are you saying some of the members of OESCA have up to 70 pups in one year ??????? I thought OESCA was the breeders of choice.... the cream of the crop..... You can not be correct in this statement, 70 pups in one year ????? From one breeder ??????? This just can not be true. They have the stats up and have had for years on their website. Last year i had a call from someone in Japan that had a pup with problems. All i could do was tell them to call the breeder back or go to OESCA. |
I soooo wish people would be bold enough to say things without hiding their identity!  I have met many of Gails dogs that have just been wonderful. One family has recently moved near me with Tucker(from Gail) We have play dates with Tucker and Frankie (another Shageybark) and they are great! Tucker got his CGC and TDI last year!  I met Gail and Cheryl last year here at a local dog show and they were both wonderful! Also met a few more of their pups they were showing!! I don't even know why this is being brought up 10 years later Here is a picture of Frankie watching as georgie goes to tackle Tucker!  Here is Frankie making a get away from Georgie and Finn!  They sure look like well adjusted dogs to me! |
| Ahem, I have a very healthy, happy puppy with a great temperament. Proudly, Charm is a Shaggeybark baby. I did my research, and chose wisely. I dont profess to know OESCA breeding standards or any of the past politics. But I do care about a multi generational pedigree, health testing, and a knowledgeable breeder who has given us nothing but support and her time. I have been very happy with our relationship and would not hesitate to adopt another puppy from Gail or her Shaggeybark family. I know some will think that I'm biased because my pup is healthy, but one sick puppy does not justify the caliber of the mystery guest's remarks.  Smells like sour grapes to me. |
| Brenda You forgot to add Charm is absolutely gorgeous  |
Ooh Kathy, you are so right, thank you.  I stand corrected, Charm is perfectly gorgeous, of course. |
| I think it is absolutely odd that "guest" is so concerned about Shaggeybark when so many other "breeders" are dumping dogs! Yes, think, look open your eyes! We have a huge problem in NC/SC with breeders...... Why wouldn't the "guest" go after them! Where the real problem is...... It is so easy to attack without doing your homework! I had a foster dog that was turned into shelter because, the other female in the "pen" attacked her She almost died...she was a few hours from being euthanized.... The breeder threatened me with physical violence because I confronted them about the dog they took to a death sentence! (side note Breezey is in a wonderful home in SC) So, as an OES community can we not get over the politics and save the dogs??? Kathy not signed in!!! |
| I am sure the problem is Nationwide, No doubt you see a high number because you work with the Carolina's. Are there reports that give numbers by breed for Rescues across the nation? If a dog comes to Rescue in the Carolina's does that mean the dog was born in the Carolina's. I think it would be great if a report was generated that gave the breed and the breeder of dogs that end up in Rescue, then certain breeders could be addressed one on one and held accountable for their numbers. Something of this nature just might make a breeder think twice about how many pups they produce, and who those pups go to.... and if the home does not work out, the breeder takes the dog back with open arms and finds it a new home. I am sure the feeling is it would take too much time to generate a report of this nature, but in the long run think of how much time and pain it would save especially for the dog. Any Breeder that cares about their dogs, and pups will NEVER allow one of their pups to end up in Rescue. Maybe one of the reasons for such a high number of dogs ending up in rescues is there is no tracking ... nothing that holds the breeder accountable for what they do. I read above that some TOP QUALITY BREEDERS produce as many as 70 pups in one year. Those numbers have to open some eyes. It would be very interesting to know how many of those 70 end up in Rescue. I have seen Puppymills, most are not interested in OES because of the expense involved with the breed, so all of these Pups that end up in Rescue must be coming from all types of Breeders, however, until something is done to hold the breeder accountable nothing is going to change. Just think if someone that wants to get a new pup, could go to a report that was out there for the public to read, and check out a breeder .... wouldnt that be great ? |
| Funny - a few years ago I asked one of the main rescues in the country why we couldn't in aggregate keep rescue stats - numbers, gender, age, source, reasons for surrender etc - and was told it was too much work. I seriously wish we would rethink that if nothing else to detect trends but also to protect OESCA breeders from baseless suggestions like the one above. As for Gail, I don't know her or any of her co-breeders, and I wasn't involved in the club at a level that would have made me privvy to anything that went on in regards to what prompted her to leave the club and I'm not interested in unsigned whispers more than a decade later. So all I have to go by are stats. And I'm always impressed, every time I go back to check CHIC (Canine Health Information Center) stats, to see that Shaggeybark is so well represented. Of the 105 dogs in the registry to date, something like 22 of them bear the Shaggeybark kennel name. http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=SD Kristine |
| In my opinion in any of these clubs, you get what you give. If you're into the drama and politics then that's what you'll repeatedly get hit with, if you want to avoid that and enjoy any given club for it's benefits to your own interests then you have to make an effort to do so. Re breeder recommendations, whether a member of a club or not you have to take in all the info, references, and go with your gut. If something doesn't feel right, double check over and over until it does or look elsewhere, you can't just go by hearsay. |
Mad Dog wrote: Funny - a few years ago I asked one of the main rescues in the country why we couldn't in aggregate keep rescue stats - numbers, gender, age, source, reasons for surrender etc - and was told it was too much work. I seriously wish we would rethink that if nothing else to detect trends but also to protect OESCA breeders from baseless suggestions like the one above. Just a little surprised that you would say .... to protect OESCA breeders ..... instead of saying to protect responsible breeders. I read posts over and over that just being a member of OESCA does not make one a responsible breeder. I guess until there is tracking information on who's dogs end up in Rescue and why... all breeders will have to be accountable. Its just hard to imagine anyone that produces 70 pups per year can be certain none of those pups do not end up in Rescue. Not one single dog... ever ? All it would take to start tracking is one spread sheet covering less than 10 fill in blocks.... and pass word that allowed Rescue to access.....just one person (or Club) could make such a difference. It could really do away with.... he said....she said.....  |
| In Canada for a dog to be registered it MUST be tattoed or microchipped to identify the owner and breeder. Registered breeders have a tattoo series registered to them which means any dog, anywhere, can be traced back to the breeder. No tattoo or chip means it's not a registered breeder or the dog most likely came from the states. |
Sheepdog Lover wrote: Just a little surprised that you would say .... to protect OESCA breeders ..... instead of saying to protect responsible breeders. I read posts over and over that just being a member of OESCA does not make one a responsible breeder. I guess until there is tracking information on who's dogs end up in Rescue and why... all breeders will have to be accountable. Its just hard to imagine anyone that produces 70 pups per year can be certain none of those pups do not end up in Rescue. Not one single dog... ever ? All it would take to start tracking is one spread sheet covering less than 10 fill in blocks.... and pass word that allowed Rescue to access.....just one person (or Club) could make such a difference. It could really do away with.... he said....she said..... That's exactly what I proposed. My suggestion was informal as that is how OES rescue in this country works, but the person I was speaking to is more influential in that regard than most and could probably make it happen if the person so desired. I specified OESCA breeders because OESCA breeders are an easy target and the rescue person I was speaking to was making a claim I felt strongly couldn't be substantiated, so I challenged the person to encourage shared and better record keeping so we could let the numbers and not personal agendas tell the real stories. Just like your supposition that someone can't produce 70 puppies and keep track of them. Maybe they can. Maybe they can't. Maybe they collectively had litters that totaled 70 puppies in a given time frame. Maybe they didn't. Facts. I have a real fondness for what can be documented. And I still feel strongly that tracking rescue trends around the country could be helpful in terms of knowing where to concentrate efforts and resources, and also what the real sources of the vast majority of these dogs are. Kristine |
| Sheepdog Lover Are you a breeder in the Carolinas??? I do keep record of where my dogs come from in rescue if known! When at shelters you typically don't have records! To answer your question yes, most of them do come from The Carolinas! Woodleaf Hills Kennels to be exact! Not from one specific breeder as there are many! I am not naming names but, I know the main ones are not breeding anymore so, hopefully some day rescue can slow down! So, yes, this rescue gal does her homework!  I always tell people when they are surrendering a dog they need to contact the breeder first!!! ALWAYS! Most of the times if breeders can be reached they are willing to work with us to help rehome the dog! Not sure how I flipped this over to rescue Sorry folks! |
| In regards to rescues keeping records of where there dogs come from. I have had approximately 20 fosters come through my home, 4 of which were Mom and 3 of her pups. I can say that we have only been able to determine where 2 of them, other than the 4 mentioned above, came from. I think that tracking breeders through rescue would be almost impossible. |
Betsy wrote: In regards to rescues keeping records of where there dogs come from. I have had approximately 20 fosters come through my home, 4 of which were Mom and 3 of her pups. I can say that we have only been able to determine where 2 of them, other than the 4 mentioned above, came from. I think that tracking breeders through rescue would be almost impossible. Like I always say, they do not run around with their papers in their pockets!  |
Donner's Mom wrote: Like I always say, they do not run around with their papers in their pockets! No but perhaps if rescues, reputable breeders, and other interested parties petitioned the AKC to require tattooing and or microchipping it would enforce some accountability. |
Betsy wrote: In regards to rescues keeping records of where there dogs come from. I have had approximately 20 fosters come through my home, 4 of which were Mom and 3 of her pups. I can say that we have only been able to determine where 2 of them, other than the 4 mentioned above, came from. I think that tracking breeders through rescue would be almost impossible. Sure wish they did though!  |
Donner's Mom wrote: Like I always say, they do not run around with their papers in their pockets! If you ask some basic questions and/or you know what you're looking at you can usually figure it out Some dogs come in with papers. Some are "breeder" surrendered. Even when you can't tell by the history of the dog, or lack thereof, who the breeders are, you can often tell just by looking at a dog who they are not. If there indeed is a problem with, let's say, OESCA breeders dogs ending up in rescue, then to make that claim someone has to know where the dog came from, whether the breeder was contacted or not, and all of that can be documented.More to the point, it would be useful to collect data such as owner-surrender vrs shelter. Age of surrender. How was dog acquired? At what age was dog acquired? Reason for surrender? Was breeder or former rescue/shelter contacted first if applicable? Purebred or mix? We all ask these questions, or have that data as part of the process. If you put it together nationally and then broke it back down by region and compared year to year you could see which regions are hardest hit, which regions have very few dogs, and which way the trend is going, regionally and nationally. You can find patterns of surrender such as (perhaps) "the largest number of dogs are surrendered between age 1-3 for behavioral reasons" OK, now, maybe you have a starting point to ideally, develop a strategy to keep more of these dogs in their original homes when possible. And, yes, this really did drift off topic. Sorry about that. Kristine |
Willowsprite wrote: Donner's Mom wrote: Like I always say, they do not run around with their papers in their pockets! No but perhaps if rescues, reputable breeders, and other interested parties petitioned the AKC to require tattooing and or microchipping it would enforce some accountability. Personally, whether it was a requirement or not by the AKC, I would make sure all of my puppies were identified before leaving my home. Then, if for whatever reason the dog is lost, or heaven forbid ended up in a rescue because I was not notified (even though it is in my contract) the rescue, shelter, or whoever has the dog would be able to notify me and I could make sure the dog came back. |
Blueshire wrote: Personally, whether it was a requirement or not by the AKC, I would make sure all of my puppies were identified before leaving my home. Then, if for whatever reason the dog is lost, or heaven forbid ended up in a rescue because I was not notified (even though it is in my contract) the rescue, shelter, or whoever has the dog would be able to notify me and I could make sure the dog came back. Yes, I think most not-so-casual breeders do these days. We use microchips, not tatoos, on this side of the border, though. Kristine |
Blueshire wrote: Personally, whether it was a requirement or not by the AKC, I would make sure all of my puppies were identified before leaving my home. Then, if for whatever reason the dog is lost, or heaven forbid ended up in a rescue because I was not notified (even though it is in my contract) the rescue, shelter, or whoever has the dog would be able to notify me and I could make sure the dog came back. I agree!!!! You know what is sad is that we have had around 10 dogs(guessing)come into rescue that are chipped but, the chip is not registered!! We had to xray one of my gals and she had 2 chips  neither one registered!!! |
Donner's Mom wrote: You know what is sad is that we have had around 10 dogs(guessing)come into rescue that are chipped but, the chip is not registered!! We had to xray one of my gals and she had 2 chips neither one registered!!! Sorry. But you have to admit that is kind of funny. Why go to the trouble of re-chipping a dog and then...? Never mind.  For OFA testing including updates any dog that is listed as permanently ID'd generally has to be scanned to verify that the chip is what you say it is (i.e. the dog is who you say it is) and I always hope to you know what that the vet will keep finding it year to year   I haven't had one shift yet. From that point of view a tatoo would be better, as it stays where ever it's placed. But they in turn fade, though, so they're rarely used here. Kristine |
Blueshire wrote: Personally, whether it was a requirement or not by the AKC, I would make sure all of my puppies were identified before leaving my home. Then, if for whatever reason the dog is lost, or heaven forbid ended up in a rescue because I was not notified (even though it is in my contract) the rescue, shelter, or whoever has the dog would be able to notify me and I could make sure the dog came back. IF I were a breeder... I would do the same because I would want to be the first notified if one of mine ended up in an unsafe situation. Some people do not honor purchase or adoption contracts. Even though it's a requirement that a breeder (or rescue) be contacted if they can no longer keep a dog, some still end up in situations a responsible breeder (or rescue) would not approve of. The chip or tattoo can provide an additional level of security. It would nice if all breeders were required to microchip or tattoo in order to get AKC registration on their litters... it would help bring about accountability. |
| [quote="6Girls]It would nice if all breeders were required to microchip or tattoo in order to get AKC registration on their litters... it would help bring about accountability. [/quote] Its been law here since 2008, you cant register a litter with the ANKC without Microchip details on each pup. |
Buyer beware wrote: The facts are the facts, Ali. The puppy buyer had testimony from her veterinarian to support her case. How could your friend Gail Swails defend herself against that? The veterinarian wasn't an OESCA member so where were the politics? The puppy buyer wasn't an OESCA member either. It takes a lot of hard core evidence to get the OESCA Board to get to the point of bringing charges against someone. It doesn't happen often. There's nothing petty about any of it and shame on you for suggesting that. You should be more concerned about the welfare of a defenseless puppy (who didn't survive, if my memory serves me) than hyping your old crony friend who produces a disturbingly high number of litters each year. Well, back on subject!!!! Your memory does not serve you correctly  I wish you would have gone to the source for the truth instead of making assumptions! I did not and I will not share all the details but, the "pup" is still alive and well!! You are welcome to contact me privately if you have any questions! |
lisaoes wrote: Its been law here since 2008, you cant register a litter with the ANKC without Microchip details on each pup. That's wonderful and it just makes sense. Wondering why the USA is so far behind on this... |
6Girls wrote: Even though it's a requirement that a breeder (or rescue) be contacted if they can no longer keep a dog, some still end up in situations a responsible breeder (or rescue) would not approve of. The chip or tattoo can provide an additional level of security. It would nice if all breeders were required to microchip or tattoo in order to get AKC registration on their litters... it would help bring about accountability. Jaci, there's nothing wrong with this approach, most breeders I know habitually microchip their puppies, typically at the time they get their first shots, and WI rescue chips dogs before we place them (few if any come in chipped; since we have a vet as part of our committee we can easily check and do). It wouldn't have the impact you might think, though - how many BYBs would really care if they registered their litters? And how many people who purchase from same care if they get papers with the dog or would bother to register the dog if they did? It could, however, serve to protect the breeders who do. If - unlike now, where a breeder can put their contact information on the chip before sale, but the owner can remove that at any time - the chip would be forever linked to the breeder via the AKC and rescue was legally required to scan all dogs before any transfer of ownership and immediately report any chips to the AKC, breeders would finally have some level of protection. There would have to be some built in enforcement method holding both the rescue and the breeder accountable, of course. Kristine |
| and to really change the focus.... Bassets! Our rescue serves all of MN, WI and Il down to the Chicago area. Bassets (in our region anyway) are HUGELY plagued by mills and BYB's - and they don't register with any of the various registries out there, nor do they chip them. So, unless they are an owner surrender who got the dog as a puppy from some decent sort of breeder (and you can guess how rare THAT is!....), we have absolutely NO tracking ability. And being bassets, who follow their noses, a large percentage are brought into rescue as strays. However, we do track any dog that comes in. Part of their intake includes being microchipped and the rescue is listed as a contact for the life of each dog.  |
got sheep wrote: And being bassets, who follow their noses, a large percentage are brought into rescue as strays. Yeah, tough breed. I have to think the beagle people have a very similar time of it. At least OES rarely voluntarily get themselves lost. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: As for Gail, I don't know her or any of her co-breeders, and I wasn't involved in the club at a level that would have made me privvy to anything that went on in regards to what prompted her to leave the club and I'm not interested in unsigned whispers more than a decade later. So all I have to go by are stats. And I'm always impressed, every time I go back to check CHIC (Canine Health Information Center) stats, to see that Shaggeybark is so well represented. Of the 105 dogs in the registry to date, something like 22 of them bear the Shaggeybark kennel name. http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=SD Kristine Good point Kristine.... I personally think that any breeder praticipating in health and research is doing what is best for the breed! I also think it is a little odd that the people throwing stones have disappeared since facts are comng out!! |
| I was posting this last night when the power went off! 9 hours without electricity due to the snow... my sole worry was Bumble's freezer full of $ostrich$. The only dog we've brought in that was microchipped was Panda and her chip had never been registered. Quote: how many BYBs would really care if they registered their litters? If nothing else, people often have the misconception that AKC means "quality". So not having papers would likely affect the price breeders were able to get for a non-registered puppy. Without AKC papers, would the profits go down and in turn make it a less desirable business? There are breeders asking $1,000, $1,200 for AKC registered puppies but there is nothing to support these prices. Non-showing/non-competing breeders wanting to separate themselves from the average for-profit breeder and irresponsible breeder could do the OFA/CERF ratings and CGC of breeding dogs... maybe microchipping all puppies would be another way to stand apart. It seems it might show more dedication to the dogs they produce/profit from since all their puppies could be traced back to them. Mad Dog wrote: It could, however, serve to protect the breeders who do. If - unlike now, where a breeder can put their contact information on the chip before sale, but the owner can remove that at any time - the chip would be forever linked to the breeder via the AKC and rescue was legally required to scan all dogs before any transfer of ownership and immediately report any chips to the AKC, breeders would finally have some level of protection. There would have to be some built in enforcement method holding both the rescue and the breeder accountable, of course. The rescues I know do have their vet's scan each dog that comes in. Thanks to Kathy (Donner's Mom and she runs Carolinas OES Rescue) and her wonderful networking ability, more OES rescues now have microchip scanners in their possession so they can scan dogs themselves. Hoping microchipping will someday be a requirement for AKC registration... |
| On that note....if any other rescue groups would like a Universal Microchip Scanner please let me know and I can send you info on how to apply for one! Our buddy Vern's Mommy works for AKC CAR!!! |
6Girls wrote: If nothing else, people often have the misconception that AKC means "quality". So not having papers would likely affect the price breeders were able to get for a non-registered puppy. Without AKC papers, would the profits go down and in turn make it a less desirable business? AKC means purebred. Period. They are a breed registry whose core job is to track pedigrees. You can have AKC registerable puppies because the parents are AKC registered and that's generally sales pitch enough. How many actually register their puppies? The breeder isn't required to apply for a litter application. If those pups are never registered any chip requirement is meaningless for the majority of the population of dogs that actually end up in rescue. I'm not against it, mind you. As I said, I think it has the potential to protect breeders who do care where their puppies end up. Kristine |
| Darn, that is right about buyers having to register their puppy. An ad from today's Craigslist... but no mention of AKC... Quote: We have 3 puppies that need a home we can't take care of all these Big dogs the 3 are 3 months old very loving pets but defently not a lap dog Re home fee will apply because there very rare dogs and super Competeters in the dog shows |
| Again, a big difference in Canada, it's the breeders who register the pups, the litter registration as well as the individual registrations. |
Willowsprite wrote: Again, a big difference in Canada, it's the breeders who register the pups, the litter registration as well as the individual registrations. We can do that in the US as well and more breeders are doing this as pet owners can't be trusted to remember to follow through as it's not important to most of them. The Breeder of Merit program basically requires it as I recall. Hold on, just got my packet: yes, the AKC is even offering me a nice discount to individually register all of the puppies in a litter at the time of litter registration. Woohoo for me! Actually, I do appreciate the nice incentives they are offering, and though, of course, they are preaching to the choir, I still appreciate the program very much. That doesn't mean that your average BYB is going to register a litter. In fact, it's highly unlikely that most would as registration means so little to your average buyer. Kristine |
6Girls wrote: Darn, that is right about buyers having to register their puppy. An ad from today's Craigslist... but no mention of AKC... Quote: We have 3 puppies that need a home we can't take care of all these Big dogs the 3 are 3 months old very loving pets but defently not a lap dog Re home fee will apply because there very rare dogs and super Competeters in the dog shows Super Competers in the dog shows? That is too cute!!!!! No, the trend today is towards designer dogs and rescue dogs, almost its own breed, and the purebred dogs is almost, not quite but heading there, a thing of the past. Kristine |
| I called AKC and asked if Microchips is or will be required in the near future. I asked why it is required in Canada and not the US. Also is there anyway AKC can help Breeders keep up with their pups through microchips. This is the answer they gave me... its not my answer... its what AKC told me and I did think it might be useful. No Microchips are required here because ... the Kennel Club is state owned in Canada and the state requires it there. Here DNA is required because DNA is a much better way to track Pedigrees and that is what AKC is all about ( I didnt ask if DNA is required in Canada). DNA can track pups even if a couple of generations are skipped being DNAed. Only the male is required to have DNA on file, after a certain number of litters, or a certain number of litters within a Year. All a breeder has to do to protect their pup is: Micro chip the pup, fill the registeration papers out themselves with the chip number and the name the new owner wants for the pup,and mail the papers in themselves going back to the new owner. Payment for the chip and registeration can be collected from the buyer as part of the sale contract, or it can be paid for by the breeder. The Microchip number will be on file with AKC, if a dog goes to Rescue, scan the dog... call Akc with the microchip number, AKC can give the current owners name and the breeders name. Please understand I am not saying this....this is what AKC told me. I just thought I would share it with you... if it is true I think it could be helpful, however again it all goes back to the breeder.... this would be very useful for breeders that want to keep up with their pups and take over if one ever ends up in Rescue. |
Sheepdog Lover wrote: I called AKC and asked if Microchips is or will be required in the near future. I asked why it is required in Canada and not the US. Also is there anyway AKC can help Breeders keep up with their pups through microchips. This is the answer they gave me... its not my answer... its what AKC told me and I did think it might be useful. No Microchips are required here because ... the Kennel Club is state owned in Canada and the state requires it there. Here DNA is required because DNA is a much better way to track Pedigrees and that is what AKC is all about ( I didnt ask if DNA is required in Canada). DNA can track pups even if a couple of generations are skipped being DNAed. Only the male is required to have DNA on file, after a certain number of litters, or a certain number of litters within a Year. All a breeder has to do to protect their pup is: Micro chip the pup, fill the registeration papers out themselves with the chip number and the name the new owner wants for the pup,and mail the papers in themselves going back to the new owner. Payment for the chip and registeration can be collected from the buyer as part of the sale contract, or it can be paid for by the breeder. The Microchip number will be on file with AKC, if a dog goes to Rescue, scan the dog... call Akc with the microchip number, AKC can give the current owners name and the breeders name. Please understand I am not saying this....this is what AKC told me. I just thought I would share it with you... if it is true I think it could be helpful, however again it all goes back to the breeder.... this would be very useful for breeders that want to keep up with their pups and take over if one ever ends up in Rescue. Nice work! I'd forgotten that I fill in the microchip numbers on the puppies as part of their registration applications. What this means as I understand it is that if breeders bother to do this, the AKC does indeed have the information on file and the breeder can be located. I'm letting WI rescue know. Hopefully other rescues are reading this as well. Thank you! Kristine |
| Walter came microchipped and registered to the breeder. I don't think they thought that one through |
HeatherRWM wrote: Walter came microchipped and registered to the breeder. I don't think they thought that one through ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!! Well, good for them on that count at least, nonetheless There were signs they were trying to do some of the right things, but...breeding dogs is hard. Small wonder there are fewer and fewer people doing it. Kristine |
Sheepdog Lover wrote: Please understand I am not saying this....this is what AKC told me. I just thought I would share it with you... if it is true I think it could be helpful, however again it all goes back to the breeder.... this would be very useful for breeders that want to keep up with their pups and take over if one ever ends up in Rescue. Thanks for taking time to share this! Mad Dog wrote: It could, however, serve to protect the breeders who do. If - unlike now, where a breeder can put their contact information on the chip before sale, but the owner can remove that at any time Not sure I understand... is this possible because there are two contacts listed on the chip? Panda's microchip is through Home Again. This company won't allow someone to change registration information without paperwork and the company then makes contact with the person they're removing to verify the change has been authorized... or so they say. |
| I just am sending in Maggie's Avid information - it's right next to me. It asks for owner info, a second alternate person's info, implanter/vet info. Nowhere does it say if the dog gets sold, that the contact info on either of the 1st two people are to remain permanent. I see that as the new owners can replace it w/ their own primary and alternate info, unless some prior arrangement is made with Avid, or with the rescue when they set up the account?However, I am assuming they can track back through the implanter/vet info regardless. In our case for our basset rescue - we are the implanter of record. |
| With here each pup is mirco chipped by the breeder, there costs, a litter notification is lodged and each pup is then seperately registered and can only be registered with a chip number which that goes onto there individual pedigree registration paper along with the breeders details, also here ALL living progeny in a litter has to be registered too, wether that be on the full register or limited one and all have to have those chip numbers before they even contemplate registering them. So that is a permanent record tracing that chip # back to where the puppy came from through both the microchip registry as well as the ANKC records. As far as the new owners are concerned the breeder then has to sign the individual chip registry tranfer papers and also the pedigree registration papers which also carry the chip no. to transfer that pup into the new owners name and address and contact details, only the breeder can change those details on behalf of the new owner. Through the ANKC records and the chip registry, if a dog ends up lost etc and is scanned and the info on the microchip registry is not current and the owners of that dog cant be found then the records take that particular dog back to where they originally came from as a 2nd contact so I really think it is a blessing to know that a dog can be traced through microchipping back to where it orignated from, a safe guard for breeders to know if something unfortunate happens down the track or you loose over the years contact with the owners on something you have bred then knowing what ever the future holds regardless it can be traced back to you if there was ever a need on something you have bred. Oh and also any pup wether that be mixed or purebred its law, pet shops, byb's etc have to microchip pups as well before sending them on to new homes. With pure breds we have a double blessing with all that info being not only on a chip register but also on there pedigree papers and ANKC records as well. I think it is a great law brought in here to help all dogs regardless of there breed or wether pure bred or a mix. Makes it harder for people to abandon etc there dogs then and also brings into accountability those breeding are attached to those pups for there lifetime as well |
| Lisa - don't you guys have to chip all horses too? I know there are some countries where it's required, and I was thinking the land down under was one of them. |
HeatherRWM wrote: Walter came microchipped and registered to the breeder. I don't think they thought that one through NO!! That breeder DID think that through! I do this with ALL of my puppies. I register the whole litter to myself, and microchip them to myself. I then add the buyer on as a 2nd person of contact to call. That way (and it has happened) I get a call, "we have your dog here at XXXX", and I then call that owner asking them WHERE their dog is!! |
| When a breeder sells a pup in the US they give the new owner a Dog Registration Application. this form list the new name of the pup, the new owners name, address, phone and Email... there is also a block that ask for the microchip ID number. If this block is filled out ... the Registration Green form will have the chip number on it, but more important this number will be on record with AKC forever. This number has to be filled out before the registration papers are ever sent in... if the dog is registered, then later microchipped AKC will know nothing about the chip.... it is something that is best done by the breeder..... This does not apply to someone that has a dog... it is already registered...then has it chipped. With this in mind.... if a dog or cat comes to Rescue, and it is chipped, but the new owner never sent in the paperwork to the chip company..... it might be worth a call to AKC or CFA (for cats) just in case the chip was placed in by the breeder. Understand the breeder is not registering the chip to themselves.... they are putting the chip in the dog and giving the chip number to AKC, a call to AKC can tell you who the breeder is because no matter what.... the breeder info will never change. Again This would have to happen before the dog was ever registered with AKC. |
got sheep wrote: I just am sending in Maggie's Avid information - it's right next to me. It asks for owner info, a second alternate person's info, implanter/vet info. Nowhere does it say if the dog gets sold, that the contact info on either of the 1st two people are to remain permanent. I see that as the new owners can replace it w/ their own primary and alternate info, unless some prior arrangement is made with Avid, or with the rescue when they set up the account?However, I am assuming they can track back through the implanter/vet info regardless. In our case for our basset rescue - we are the implanter of record. Wondering if a breeder could be the implanter of record if they microchipped themselves. I've never looked into microchipping as a private party but this place sells Home Again, Avid, etc. microchip and registration sets- http://www.microchipidsystems.com/cgi-b ... istrations I'd ask who is kept as the permanent vet/implanter contact... Quote: As a breeder, will I be contacted if a pet (that I sold) ends up in a shelter? We cannot guarantee that you will be contacted if one of your puppies ends up lost or in a shelter. Shelters today are inundated with microchipped pets, and they often are unable to make a string of tracking calls. However if you or the pet owner have activated the chip and provided the recovery center with contact information, you or the pet owner or both WILL be contacted. If you are the breeder, please call us for more info...800.434.2843. http://www.microchipidsystems.com/answer.htm It just seems there must be some work around. Everyone but Panda and Kobuck are registered with Avid because it's what my vet use in 2005. The Avid microchip registration papers I have are like a car title here in Michigan so I see exactly what you mean. The front contains info about the current owner along with the microchip number but the back is what is filled out if the dog is sold... basically a transfer of ownership. Wondering if the breeder is required to transfer microchip registration upon sale of the dog? And Avid has no online interface (that I can find anyway) so there's a $6 fee (according to my 2005 paperwork) each time you need to update the info. Other microchip companies seem more user friendly which encourages owners to keep information up to date. Home Again and ResQ have an online interface that allows users to include a recent photograph and keep contact/pet info current at no charge. You cannot edit the owner name... but maybe you could include the buyer as one of the two alternate contacts? Quote: FRONT- This certifies that (animal name - species - breed - age - gender - color) has been permanently identified with the above number by (veterinarian - address). The registered holder of said animal is (name - address) transferable only on the books of Avid by the holder hereof in person or by attorney upon surrender of this certificate properly endorsed. BACK- For Value Received __________ hereby sell, assign and transfer unto ___________ said animal represented by the within Certificate. Date (month - day - year) in presence of (witness) (Signature) |
| Wondering if a breeder could be the implanter of record if they microchipped themselves. ABSOLUTELY! You can buy your chips and syringes from a number of livestock suppliers with all of the information to send in. |
| Well... why did I spend all that time typing? That's a workable solution. Or maybe the breeder keeps registration in their name and the alternate contact is the owner? |
| When Todd and I changed our cell phones (and numbers) a couple years ago, I called Avid to see what numbers they had listed (Simon and Chewie were already Avid chipped), and update them (we also had stopped our land line too). The person I talked to just changed it while I was on the phone...no fee.. I was surprised, but happy! Some of the chip co's have annual fees, Avid does not. |
| Avid's fine too since it looks like breeders could keep themselves as either the primary contact or implanter to prevent deletion from the registration. If there were many puppy/dog buyers, it might make things time consuming without an online management if buyers were included as alternate contacts and their info changed very often... even if they too were able to get it done for free! (Would you call for me to see if they'll change the alternate contacts on my 6 for free? ) A work around might be to use the Avid chip but enroll through the AKC Companion Animal Recovery program which appears to allow enrollment of any brand of microchip and provides online management of information. http://www.akccar.org/why/ Quote: 1. We charge NO annual fees or record update fees for as long as you own your pet 2. AKC CAR proudly enrolls any brand of microchip * Our mission is to keep pet microchipping and recovery services affordable for all, so more lost pets can be recovered * Participation in the American Animal Hospital Association’s Pet Microchip Look-up Tool ensures your pet will be linked to our recovery experts 24/7/365... Online enrollment in the AKC CAR Recovery Service is $17.50 Do microchip scanners tell who the manufacturer of a chip is? If not, the chip number can be searched here through the American Animal Hospital Association's microchip lookup site- http://www.petmicrochiplookup.org/Default.aspx . If it's a participating mfr., it indicates the microchip company and telephone number and the date the records were updated. Avid doesn't participate so the search says, "No pet owner information was found in the associated databases." but it will say, "This is most likely a microchip from: Avid (800-336-2843)". If it doesn't recognize the number, it brings up a list of possible companies like Pet Health Insurance (24PetWatch), AKC Companion Animal Recovery, Avid, Bayer (ResQ with PetLink registration), HomeAgain, Microchip ID Systems Inc., M4S ID/PetIDGreen, PetKey, etc. |
| Run down on microchips... I think ALL microchips are a lifetime regtistration. Homeagain has an extended one you can do anually.. That gives a lost dog limited amount of insurance if lost an needing emergency assistance before the owner is found! They will also send out faxes to area vets! Great plan but, I only do the lifetime registration on my kiddos! You can contact Homeagain and they will tell you even though your registration is expired they will always honor the "lifetime" From my experience, Homeagain will not transfer ownership until the previous owner agrees to tansfer... Of course surrendering a dog that is a given! Speaking of chipping...when my first deaf dog was double chipped and neither registered I looked into it and I don't think AKC or Homeagain are allowed to share where the chips came from if they are not registered! Again, I could be mistaken but, that is what I was told! |
Ali wrote: HeatherRWM wrote: Walter came microchipped and registered to the breeder. I don't think they thought that one through NO!! That breeder DID think that through! I do this with ALL of my puppies. I register the whole litter to myself, and microchip them to myself. I then add the buyer on as a 2nd person of contact to call. That way (and it has happened) I get a call, "we have your dog here at XXXX", and I then call that owner asking them WHERE their dog is!! I think it's a good idea, I was just making a joke because we were talking about Walter's aggression issues in another thread. |
| My vet's scanner is a universal scanner, and YES, the type of chip and the chip number both come up on the screen. I took Maggie in to have a test scan done before I sent the paperwork in. It came up as Avid...and then the number. I always have Chewie and Simon's chips checked whenever they go in for vet work as well. Chewie's chip has been migrating down the right shoulder for several years, but this last time it scanned pretty close to the withers - good news!  |
got sheep wrote: Chewie's chip has been migrating down the right shoulder for several years, but this last time it scanned pretty close to the withers - good news! Complain to Amy! Well, more seriously, I will let her know. As for those of you who implant them yourselves  ...[thud] Yeah, yeah - I know some of you are nurses in real life. I can do IVs and I can do sub q shots, and I hate needles. But those microchips...[thud!] Kristine |
Sheepdog Lover wrote: Understand the breeder is not registering the chip to themselves.... they are putting the chip in the dog and giving the chip number to AKC, a call to AKC can tell you who the breeder is because no matter what.... the breeder info will never change. Again This would have to happen before the dog was ever registered with AKC. This feels more reassuring to me as a breeder and seems closer to what Lisa describes from downunder than anything else we're discussing. Of course, it would mean more leg work than many rescues and most shelters would be willing to undertake, but at least it is permanent. And, Jaci, yes, you can update AVID online if you establish an online account with them etc. Or just have Dawn call for you She also gets chearper motel rates than anybody else, but that's a whole different story Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: got sheep wrote: Chewie's chip has been migrating down the right shoulder for several years, but this last time it scanned pretty close to the withers - good news! Complain to Amy! Well, more seriously, I will let her know. As for those of you who implant them yourselves ...[thud] Yeah, yeah - I know some of you are nurses in real life. I can do IVs and I can do sub q shots, and I hate needles. But those microchips...[thud!] Kristine Heck, I used to have to start IV's preop with large bore needles in old people who where NPO (ie: now dehydrated) who had little squiggly veins on a GOOD day! Chipping is easy compared to that I think we may have mentioned it to Amy before...or at least talked about mentioning it... |
Mad Dog wrote: As for those of you who implant them yourselves ...[thud] Yeah, yeah - I know some of you are nurses in real life. I can do IVs and I can do sub q shots, and I hate needles. But those microchips...[thud!] Kristine You can do it silly girl! Microchip needle is 18g just like a sub q fluid one! |
| My vet doesn't even like to do them unless the dog is in for the operation and she can do it while they're under. |
Donner's Mom wrote: You can do it silly girl! Microchip needle is 18g just like a sub q fluid one! Really??? I was at a health clinic once and I don't know who was doing the chipping but I heard dog after dog yelping. My guys looked at me and thanked their lucky stars they'd been chipped as puppies by Amy and were only there to have their eyes checked!!! Kristine |
| Yes, really, I think, oh no..... Maybe they are a little bigger! Maybe I talked myself into that one. Not saying I wanna do it either! LOL |
Mad Dog wrote: And, Jaci, yes, you can update AVID online if you establish an online account with them etc. Or just have Dawn call for you She also gets chearper motel rates than anybody else, but that's a whole different story I don't want to overwhelm Dawn. I've contacted them to see how to do this. Thanks so much Kristine! The size of the needle made me queasy too but the vet assured me it wouldn't be a big deal. We did 5 of them back in November 2005... Maggie, Meesha, Emma, Darby and Kaytee. No one cried, no one yelped, not peep. Except for Meesha... she cried before they did anything because she thought they were going to trim her toenails. |
| Avid wrote saying they don't have online accounts but I can get verification of what they have on file. Quote: We do not have an online account set up, but if you provide the microchip numbers, I can send you verifications of everything we have on file for you. |
Mad Dog wrote: Donner's Mom wrote: You can do it silly girl! Microchip needle is 18g just like a sub q fluid one! Really??? I was at a health clinic once and I don't know who was doing the chipping but I heard dog after dog yelping. My guys looked at me and thanked their lucky stars they'd been chipped as puppies by Amy and were only there to have their eyes checked!!! Kristine Well, they actually are a 12g needle And I used to have to start IV's with 14's, so this is still a piece of cake! Maggie didn't make a peep when I chipped her, and most bassets don't either....maybe the person was really jabbing? Or acting nervous so the dogs picked up on it?? And I apparently will never live down the motel rate issue...that was 4 YEARS ago!! |
| I had always thought it was an 18g but, did get a sample one in the mail today and realized I was wrong Now, who to poke  Most of mine have been done when sedated for surgery too! I think Georgie was the only one that wasn't and she didn't flinch.... I did! |
Donner's Mom wrote: I had always thought it was an 18g but, did get a sample one in the mail today and realized I was wrong Now, who to poke I vote for Marty!  got sheep wrote: When Todd and I changed our cell phones (and numbers) a couple years ago, I called Avid to see what numbers they had listed (Simon and Chewie were already Avid chipped), and update them (we also had stopped our land line too). The person I talked to just changed it while I was on the phone...no fee.. I found out why you got the change in phone number for free... Quote: Sorry I forgot to mention that there still is a $6.00 processing fee per membership to update any information other than phone numbers. Avid allows for updates by phone, fax or mail... nothing online. But they did send copies of what was on file. There's still a typo in the street address on 4 of them but they would correct a typo for free too. I thought it had been corrected back in 2005. If I have to do any updates, I'm not including meds this time (now out of date). If someone has both my dog AND has contacted Avid, I'd be talking with the person anyway and rushing to retrieve my dog. |
| I purchased my second OES from Gail in 1999, after carefully, and with due diligence, researching the best of the best breeders of OES's in the US. My OES had undergone, and had documentation of all the health tests required of a quality OES breeder. She passed with flying colors and I flew out to Richmond to pick her up and bring her home with me on the plane. She was the first to leave that litter, but yet I never had one issue with separation anxiety and she slept through the night immediately. I took her to beginner, intermediate, advanced training and she earned her CDC by the time she was a year. I chose not to show her, but rather to keep her active through agility and contantly working with her to keep her mentally and physically stimulated. She was the best and healthiest dog I have ever been blessed to own and to call my very best friend, constant companion, back woods and mt hiking partner all over the US and Canada, she was intently loyal, extremely intelligent and very protective of both myself and her Bearded Collie younger brother. She literally saved our lives on at least two different occasions, (and probably more than I am even aware of), out in the wilds of the backwoods and also protected the motorhome I bought to travel easily with two dogs. Any one who dared to be so bold as to try to bother or harm her brother or myself or the motorhome or our own home was very quickly and effectively run off by the best self protection one could ever wish to have. She was much smarter and quick witted than any of the "bad guys" we occasionally encountered on our cross country journeys through north America. From puppyhood through her entire 14.5 yrs, she was extremely healthy and happy. I was blessed to have her and my life was enriched because of her. She raised two beardie boys during her 14.5 yrs, and taught them very well the rules of our home, trained them, loved them like she was their Mother, she taught them the rules of the backwoods trails, taught them how to play and how to behave. I realized very quickly that she wanted to raise them and she taught both Beardie boys well and I literally did not have to potty train them or anything else.......she did it all and with grace, patience and love. Her second Beardie brother and I lost her at 14.5 yrs very suddenly due to old age, but no one ever guessed her to be that old, as she was still spry, sassy and happy till the very end of her life with her only health issue in the last year being from arthritis, which we kept well controlled with medication and massages and water walking on a hydro treadmill when she was to sore for her rgular nightly walks. She loved to remain active and be with me where ever I went. Thus, my personal experience with Gails pup was nothing short of wonderful and I thank her for taking professionalism and pride in her pups health from the breeding and beyond. When I had a question, she was always more than happy to talk with me by phone and also of great help. It has been one year since we lost our beloved Bailey and now my Beardie boy and I am ready to add another one of Gails dogs to our family. A client of hers, who also had two of her girls for many years until their death called Gail and said he wanted two more female littermates from her , which are now 14 mths old. He has encountered serious health problems, and called upon Gail to take the girls back to rehome them, just as our contract reads. I have absolutely no hesitation in welcoming one of the girls into our family and look forward to doing so soon. I am so thankful to get another wonderful sheepie from Gails line of excellent dogs. |
| When someone says something such as "ask why they are not in OESCA anymore" it is probably sour grapes from other people that. Pretty much people that are jealous of the other's breeding programs. As Gail, I *USED* to be a member of OESCA but no longer am. Itdoesn't mean i don't (neither does Gail) not adhere to the OOESCA Code of Ethic's when breeding our dogs. I know for a fact, as I was on the Board of Directors when Gail resigned, it was the same bullying that i underwent. *I* CHOSE to resign my membership rather than than continue to be bullied, and pressured by others that have their 'own' agenda's for the breed. The same people that do not adhere to the Code of Ethic's, but are still running the club. I *CHOOSE*to do all of the health testing and be honest and open regarding my OES and my breeding program. Just as Gail does. I would never breed a dysplastic dog or bitch. SO, the NEXT time someone comes on with a cryptic message such as that..........get the facts from the person you are asking about. |
 |
 I realize that this is an old post being revisited within the last day and would like to add my two cents. Three years ago I decided to revisited having an OES again in my life. The first and only one I had was when I was in college many years ago. I knew that the dog I wanted now would have to come from a reputable breeder and be one that was bred for excellent temperament and health and correct conformation. I wanted to be able to welcome the dog into my family for its lifetime and have the dog with the personality and temperament suited for therapy work at nursing homes and schools and also the ability to show. To say the least. I was very picky as to what breeders I would consider contacting. During my extensive research of breeders, I came across the Shaggeybark website and was impressed, so I further researched them using the OES Club of America where they are listed as a Breeder of Merit. I then checked further and was very impressed by the number of dogs that Shaggeybark had entered into the CHIC system.....a true sign of a concerned and conscientious breeder. I thought I was "all that and a bag of chips" as a I "interrogated" Gail with a list of questions, eg. what was her purpose of breeding this dog and bitch?, what was she trying to accomplish with this breeding?, what clearances did the sire and dam have (eyes, hips, thyroid, etc)? can I visit her home and meet the parents?, etc, etc, etc. Well, when I was done asking her my questions, she put me through the wringer asking me about my experience with the breed, grooming requirements, training, how and where the dog would live, etc., etc, etc. I now have 2 Shaggeybark dogs, one from Gail (Beau, 3years old, AKC Champ, CGC, passed TDI and currently a therapy dog working towards his title) and one from Cheryl in New Jersey (Gunner, 6 months old). I can not say enough about how wonderful these two women are. The support system is outstanding. You can call at any time and either will be more than happy to spend time on the phone with you addressing any concerns or even for just a friendly conversation to say "hi" and "how are things going". They are truly dedicated to this breed in every possible way and spend countless hours of their time (and money) promoting this breed. They will not breed any of their dogs that have not been tested and cleared for eyes, hips, thyroid, etc. which shows just how very serious they are about only producing well balanced and healthy pups. Let's face it (and I know this has been a topic on this forum before) that there are some breeders that do not go through this expense, but with Shaggeybark it is a requirement! I would recommend Shaggeybark in less than a heartbeat if ever asked if I knew a quality, well respected and professional breeder. The previous post is a picture of Beau and Gunner over the Thanksgiving snow storm and attached above is the link for Beau's Championship photo (if I did it correctly....this is my first time trying to post pics). |
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