Newbies needing some advice
1) Are OES's good for new dog owners (we've both had dogs in our past, but not recently or with our current family)? 2) Are OES's good for North Carolina (we're concerned that it might be too hot here for them)? 3) How are they with older children (we have a 12- and a 14-year old)? 4) How much attention do they need (from what I hear they seem to be roughly halfway in between a Jack Russell Terrier and a turtle...is that right?) 5) How goofy/trouble-prone are the puppies (should we aim for a "seasoned" dog)? 6) Any other advice? Thanks for any help you can give. |
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| if you read many of the postings you will get an idea of the personality and behavioral issues. there are a wide variety of personalities among the dogs.
1) Are OES's good for new dog owners (we've both had dogs in our past, but not recently or with our current family)? If you are dog savy they are a good choice, if your experience was haaving a dog as a kid that your mother dealt with it may not be the dog for you. 2) Are OES's good for North Carolina (we're concerned that it might be too hot here for them)? OES live all over the globe, you can shave them in the sumer or provide a/c, they are not outdoor dogs for the most part. i have one that loves to swim and one who hates it 
3) How are they with older children (we have a 12- and a 14-year old)? They can be great with kides! 4) How much attention do they need (from what I hear they seem to be roughly halfway in between a Jack Russell Terrier and a turtle...is that right?) they do want attention from their family. we have four dogs and the two OES want and demand the most attention - and then there is the grooming. |
Hi. I lived in North Carolina for awhile with sheepdogs and the red dirt turned them orange. Then they'd come in and lean against the walls and turn those orange. So, you might want to make sure they have some kind of cement or gravel run to help them stay clean!  |
BobinNC wrote: 4) How much attention do they need (from what I hear they seem to be roughly halfway in between a Jack Russell Terrier and a turtle...is that right?)
 How much attention does a JRT require? Whatever it is, multiply it by 5. I think there are few dogs on the planet more demanding of attention than your average OES. A JRT may be busy and require lots of exercise and training, but they're little and bald. Add to that about 50 plus pounds plus mountains of hair and an intense need to be where their people are and stubborn and opinionated and, as youngsters, busy and always getting into things and ....(read the behavior section) And not all are created equal in the temperament department either. 5) How goofy/trouble-prone are the puppies (should we aim for a "seasoned" dog)? Again, about the most troublesome puppies on the planet and they are puppies till they're about 2-3. Seasoned can be hard to find. Here in WI rescue we seem to have a steady supply of young "adults" and puppies who flunked out of their first home(s) because they were too much for people. Quite honestly, seasoned rarely applies as they are generally undersocialized, undertrained and not infrequently, and I say this with great affection you understand, a bit nuts. Nice project dogs, but not for the Newbie owner.Look for a nice (maybe) 3-5 year old, either a retired show dog from a breeder or, even better, if you can find a "seasoned" (sane and trained) one, from rescue. Failing that, get a puppy and be prepared to sign your life completely over to the critter for at least the next two years. We're not going anywhere so you can always ask for help to get you through it  6) Any other advice? Yes. If you can, meet a few young ones first. Normal ones. Not the ones people bother to train and maybe even put titles and such on. Invite them to your house. Let them run around and harrass your kids and whatever other critters you may have. If, after they leave, and you've cleaned up their messes and repaired what they broke, you still want one, welcome to the club. There's a 12 step program around here somewhere....  Kristine |
| Hi Bob!
I'm an OES owner/lover located here in western North Carolina. I am also involved in OES rescue. The advise you've gotten above is accurate. OES are very demanding of their owners in regards to their need for time and attention. They will be miserable if left alone and outside the family circle. They want and need to be a part of your everyday life. They are called "velcro" dogs for a good reason.
Attention, however, is defined differently by different dogs. Currently, my two OESes are asleep at my feet - and are quite content with that. Earlier, we went for a 30 minute walk. Now, they're passed out and soundly sleeping while I work. This is sufficient for them. A few months ago, I had a foster girl here who needed much more than my two do in that area. She had to be placed in a home with folks who are active and could keep up with her energy. You see where this is going? There is an OES to match your energy level if you are patient enough to find them. They can be great with kids, especially older ones.
Please feel free to contact me if you'd like to get some more information on rescue or if you'd like to borrow a few dogs for a while. |
| They advice given to you has been great and very true. I'm sitting here laughing at the different post as it is so TRUE.
A lady last night mentioned, you walk your dog a lot (2-3 times a day). I said I have to. High energy and if I want to get anything done around the house he needs to go for a walk(s). She then said "dont you have a yard for him to run"? Yes but if I'm not outside with him he stays out for a 5-10 minutes then he wants back in. In his mind, dad I just took a nap now lets play. I have been working and tried to ignore him. He then climbs into chair with me to prove his point. I want attention. A very velcro dog, as well as a great big clown. I left animal planet on one day as I went to the store. I came home, he was on top on the coffee table watching Homeward Bound on tv.  |
| shon great photo!! and Morgan loves that IQcube too!! |
| Shon, that picture is hilarious. Obe has awesome posture, though!
1. I'd say OES are fine for new dog owners. In a way, I think it's almost better becuse OES are so unique from most other dogs' personalities, that I think not having had another dog recently would be good. That way you start with a clean slate, rather than thinking, my Lab didn't counter surf, etc... 2. I'm in Virginia, which is close to NC. I think they're fine, as long as you either keep them shaved if you spend a lot of time outdoors, or make sure they have access to air conditioning. My dog doesn't like to go outside, so it doesn't really matter if he's furry or shaved...in fact, he gets cold in the summer when shaved because he's in AC all day. 3. I think they're great with children. I've been around them all my life, and having older children with them is great because they are less likely to be knocked over (which happens with OES--not on purpose, but because they're big and boisterous) or less likely to be herded while running around the yard, because we all know teens don't move much
4. Like Beaureguard's Mom said, attention can be subjective. Barney just likes to be with us and considers that attention. Like this weekend we were in the dining room hanging a picture on the wall...and Barney just decided to move his nap to that room...when we were finished he went and napped in the next room we were in. But there are some OES who are much more full of enery who have more exercise-related attention that's needed. I don't have much experience with that though lol. 5. As puppies, they get in trouble. But all puppies do. They tend to stay 'puppies' longer than other breeds do, so don't look for them to calm down until around 2... |
| While everyone else is talking about their habits and quirks, I just want to speak up on grooming. While many many people are quite capable of grooming their OES due to experience or diligence, most new owners realize quickly it is quite a job. Past 3 inches on a full grown coat, you need to be daily to every few days dilligent in working the coat. Meaning from the skin to the ends. Alot of people think their brushing the coat is a good job, but quite often that is a "surface" job.. the knots are at the skin level. So my advice is...
1. Look into grooming prices near you for a "mini" (which should include bath, sani, nails, and pads). Prices will vary with the type of facility you go to, but you can expect between $35-$85 on this every 3 week need (4 if you push it). Your shave down (which is much easier to handle) should cost you between $45-$100 again depending on the type of place you take your dog to. 2. If you want the lowest maintenance possible.. go for a 2-3 times a year shave down. Very little need to brush the coat and you can keep an almost full head and shaved body if you want the sheepdog look. HAIR ... is a big issue with these dogs and MUST BE CONSIDERED for the new owner. Alot of people start by thinking they can keep up and think that can keep their dog nicely groomed only to realize.. whew this is no easy job on my 80lb wigglebutt. OR... when the groomer calls you and tells you that the dog is so matted they can A... charge you a dematting fee or B.. He/she will have to be shaved. 3.. LASTLY.. big dogs means bigger vet bills and food bills. With this economy.. it is just very important to keep the expense at the forefront of your decision.. because beyond the purchase is the maintainence of the dog.. Best Wishes. Fiona in GEORGIA.. PS.. There hasn't been a single rescue dog come through that wasn't a complete matted mess (meaning the owners gave up at some point in time). 80% of them have to be shaved down, there is no way to help them. |
| Having had 2 OES and totally in love with them I wanted a second dog. My last OES was 8 when I got Rosie, a tibetan terrier as many people had OES's and TT's together. My OES Daisy wouldn't have anything to do with Rosie and Rosie spent a year just getting Daisy to let her lay beside her. TT's are the most "human like" pet I have ever had and I had thought my OES's were close to being human. I dearly loved both of them. After losing Daisey I waited until I retired to consider getting a puppy. I also had a grandaughter born in May...I finally decided to get another TT as I have had back problems over the past few years and decided size wise I could manage smaller dogs better, the size of my grandaughter for the next 10 years and of course Rosie. I am so happy with my decision as Maggie is now 7 months and they have bonded so well. They play, and lay together all the time and Rosie thinks she's the "boss" and Maggie listens well. I think you have to take so much into consideration when getting a pet....I still miss having an OES and enjoy the forum but I do love my two TT's....they are like having children in the house again. Rosie, at 8 plays like the puppy and they are characters together. My grandaughter just loves them and are so devoted to her when she's around them. Make sure as others have told you that your lifestyle fits the grooming requirements, training, and plenty of "loving" time as the OES also thrives on love. Wish you luck in adding a new member to your family....my children grew up with OES's and their lives were so much better with them in it! I had a hard time deciding what to do but realize I made a good decision considering all the factors in my lifestyle. |
| I'm still laughing at the picture of the OES watching TV.
For whatever it's worth, I'll add my two cents: I got my first OES for my 13th birthday. We had other breeds previously, but ever since Duchess my family has been attached to OESes. Linus, my 15-month-old puppy, is the 5th owned by either my parents or me. We'd never consider owning another breed, and I can't exactly explain why. They are extremely demanding, time consuming, stubborn, and yet amazingly wonderful. It's like having a perpetual 5-year-old (human) child, but one with a wickedly silly sense of humor. I live in Phoenix and have not had a problem with the heat. My parents keep theirs in a puppy clip, while I'm keeping Linus in a full coat. He does, of course, get more trips to the beauty shop than his mom. Kills me that my dog has a better hairdo than me. They do take work, but I think the time pays dividends. I have a longtime companion. Linus cooks with me, watches TV, vacuums, everything (I do not have a choice). Of course, if I leave there's also the chance that he'll leave some form of destruction as a present. But we're getting better about that. If I'm not paying enough attention, he will gladly let me know, usually with a firm push of his nose announcing the start of playtime. But it's not constant activity, either. I would estimate that Linus spends at minimum 12 hours a day sleeping on the kitchen or bathroom tile. We have our morning walk, our evening wrestle, our daily chores, but for the most part he's upside-down on the tile, monitoring me from afar. I tell people that he's lazy, but quickly motivated. I think you'll find that many OES share this ability to "unplug" for large periods of the day, and "turn on" when their owners come home. I would recommend that you "meet" a sheepdog and read the posts in the behavior section of this site to learn more. Good luck! |
| Shescribe, I think you nailed living with sheepdogs on the head. Your history is so much like my own, except that I got my first OES when I was 16, way back in 1964. It's a life style that never leaves you. There have been very few times that I didn't have at least one sheepdog as a companion ever since. I'm now on #11 and #12. They still surprise me with their antics and keep me laughing. |
| I agree,we are getting #7 OES,the first was bought with my part time after school/vacation job which I promptly quit as soon as I paid for the sheepie pup and had a stash for the vet etc.
We have had kids and small dogs as well in the past 33 years of marriage and to me,the most work was with a cockerpoo( cockerspaniel poodle cross) both times.We had a male years ago,and he was Trouble.Now my teen has a labradoodle(mini poodle dad,lab mum) and she has been a whole lot more work than any sheepie we have had,in fact,my long suffering husband has banned any future dogs from joining the family unless they are OES as we have never had one we couldnt train or cope with. Sure,we get them clipped in Summer (or when occassion demands,like when our DIL had our grandson and couldnt cope without lots of help from me,so OES got clipped for the early months of the babys life)but they are very adaptable. And,a tip for your teens.If you have a girl,she will undoubtedly love the sheepie and so will her girlie friends.If you have a boy...well,heres a quote from my husband after we took my sheepie with us on our honeymoon,and he was walking her through a shopping mall and waiting outside the shops while I tried on clothes "Bloody Hell,if I knew what a chick magnet these dogs were,I would have bought one when I was 13". |
lynZoes wrote: If you have a boy...well,heres a quote from my husband after we took my sheepie with us on our honeymoon,and he was walking her through a shopping mall and waiting outside the shops while I tried on clothes "Bloody Hell,if I knew what a chick magnet these dogs were,I would have bought one when I was 13".
HAHAHAHA! I've heard my husband & boys say the same thing! Senior pictures & prom pictures always included the OES! |
BobinNC wrote: Hey there. We are considering getting a dog for our family and my wife recently fell in love with an Olde English Sheepdog. The OES breed immediately jumped to the top of our list, but we have some questions: 1) Are OES's good for new dog owners (we've both had dogs in our past, but not recently or with our current family)? I haven't had a dog of my own, not since I was 13 and my parents looked after our Sheepdog. So Now I'm 37 and I got TWO OES puppies last year. YES it can be done, but its alot of work. Was it worth it? Oh my goodness yes! But be aware, its alot of work. 2) Are OES's good for North Carolina (we're concerned that it might be too hot here for them)? I'm in Atlanta, GA and the weather is just fine. In May we gave our girls a summer shave, and we got a little kiddie pool from Toys R Us for them to play in when it gets really hot. 3) How are they with older children (we have a 12- and a 14-year old)? I don't have experience with kids of my own, but my two are very good with all ages of children at the park. I think alot will come down to training, as with many breeds. 4) How much attention do they need (from what I hear they seem to be roughly halfway in between a Jack Russell Terrier and a turtle...is that right?) Tons, and tons and tons of attention needed. My boyfriend and I both work from home, and most days our just being here simply is not enough for our two. We do walks, training classes, and afternoons at the park. Some afternoons I also take them with me to the coffee shop, where we practice more training and do a bit of socializing. This is NOT a "put them in the yard and let them be on their own" kind of dog. Consider a sheepdog your new kid; its like having soccer practice and school and trips to the park for your kids, just furrier. And of course, thats before you get to their extensive grooming needs. 5) How goofy/trouble-prone are the puppies (should we aim for a "seasoned" dog)? These are seriously silly dogs, even the adults. Ours were very non-destructive as small pups and still are; but I think thats a result of a combination of things; we are home all day, we do alot of activities with them, and they have each other to play with, and all of that helps to keep them from being bored. 6) Any other advice? this is the most amazing breed ever, so don't let what we tell you here dissuade you from getting one. BUT; get one only if you think you can meet their extensive needs. This is not an "easy' or even "moderate" care type of pet; this is having another kid. If you guys are up to the challenge, then I say good luck with your first OES! If you think not, then I'd consider a dog breed with less demands. Thanks for any help you can give. |
| [ "Bloody Hell,if I knew what a chick magnet these dogs were,I would have bought one when I was 13".[/quote]
Bob has said the same....only in english ( sounds better in Aussie ) |
This reply is way toooo long. Nonetheless, here it is.
They are lovely; affectionate, playful, agreeable, silly, clever, and fun. What matters; pick a dog with the right temperament for you (independent, self-motivated, curious, social, not too spazzy or clingy were my choices (I chose well). Be aware of your own needs and what sort of personality would mesh well. Do read books on dog training, and psychology (Monks of New Skete on The Art of Raising a Puppy, How to be Your Dog's Best Friend; Smarter Than You Think: A Revolutionary Approach to Teaching and Understanding Your Dog in Just a Few Hours by Paul Loeb & Suzanne Hlavacek; videos of Cesar Milan are available on facebook in the Cesar Milan group (he also has a few books), Victoria Stilwell (sp?) hosts the show It's Me Or The Dog (she also has published titles), and of course Barbara Woodhouse's coterie of books (no-nonsense and old school). exc. link re: training, pack walks, dog psych: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/articles/sa ... pcadog.htm OES are designed to deal with large animals in a fairly autonomous manner, so do assert your role as the pack leader (the giver of directions, the assessor of situations, as well as the crux of your dog's emotional life). If you do find yourself in a communication breakdown, a professional trainer can help(mine was brilliant, stern, raised Sable German Shepherds and trained them for Schutzhund. long story short: >I< was miscommunicating, so for 8 weeks I was chastised, and Vlad was fed hot dogs and told what a good boy he was. But our relationship was saved.) btw; V loooved his prong collar (and it delivers a short, compelling correction), so I'll go with his judgment on the matter.) Besides the usual sit, down, stay (long and short), come, heel, wait (do not proceed, await directions), stop (where and when the dog is at the time)commands (all to be spot on off lead for your dog's own safety), I found the following indispensable: careful or watch out- to warn him of an obstacle he was about to run into; stand- for grooming; relax- to calm, to lay on his side for grooming; chill- strict calm; who's there?- investigate perimeter, check the door; as well as being able to ask him if he had to go to the bathroom (yes, he would respond), hurry up (about to go back in the house or car), are you thirsty? water?, leave it (a dog, a pastry, an area), he knew inside, outside, upstairs, downstairs, in the room, get in the crate, load up (truck), no begging (included ogling the food from within the room), stay out (kitchen), move (you're in the way, person coming through, move your body), backyard, stay put (wait for me here), watch me, come up? (he knew to ask before getting on the bed or the couch), get on the bed, get off the bed, hold still (putting his hair up in a hair tie. they can not see through it.), other paw (wiping muddy paws or trimming paw fur), shake off (post bath), giddy up or on y va(leaving an area, switching activities), go ahead (free to roam, release from a command, otherwise it's up to the dog to decide when he's done obeying?), quiet, back up (literally, very useful), street (this can and will save your dog's life if he knows he must never go in the street without being at heel following you), drop it (as in spit it out now right now), let go, don't pull, no licking, paw (to indicate he was being too rough gouging me somehow), that's it (reached the acceptable perimeter), too far (retrace), mind yourself (about to move into correctable behaviour territory; roughness or 'fronting' with another dog), and where's the stick. I'm leaving out all the staples like hungry? dinner, breakfast, cheese, kibble, watch the car, various commands and phrases in French and German, a sharp celebratory ululating trill that was very handy for calling/redirecting from a distance, and all the little songs I sang to him. This may be way too much info on a tangent. But! It's a relationship (with a dog not a furry person) and relationships thrive on clear communication. Dogs thrive on consistency, the safety of the pack and an assertive, clear pack leader, knowing their place in the pack, having a job (i.e., expectations which engage the dog; accompany, protect, frolic, obey, watch the house, behave, agility, training refreshers), and dogs love to adapt and learn. For years I worked as a carpenter and I was usually able to take V to work with me, where he would lay down out of the way, and only socialize during breaks. Literally, this is a dog that, if it is socialized (thoroughly;kids, people of all colors and ages, environments, walkers, wheelchairs, canes, crutches, strollers, noises, etc. the >more the better<) and trained, will be able to adapt graciously to just about anything. Raves, country living in the boonies chasing off bears, middle of SF, job sites, offices, living with a frail paraplegic woman who used a walker (she said V was "remarkably unobtrusive for a dog his size"), lounging at a bar, playing at a dog park, hanging out at a big drum circle while I played on a sunny day, going to the beach, letting little kids and total strangers pet him on the street , or accompanying me on a long brisk walk at 3 am through SF (fluffy, but a real deterrent). If what you want is a DOG (all caps), you will adore it. You'll get used to having a dog paw towel by the door and wiping his whiskers when he's carrying around too much water (wiping it on you. accidentally?). You'll probably have to establish that you are not to be walked through, but around (a gentle firm body check as he's about to plow through you: "watch out"). Also, you'll learn to keep a slight bend to your knees in case of impact. You'll love brushing the hair back from his eyes and watching him/her bounce into solid obstacles clowning around. The fur tends to stay on the dog, which is tidy, but you'll own about four types of brushes and probably trimmers as well (I liked the care he took and how people made much ado about how well-kempt he was. It's quality bonding time, and playtime afterwards =). To make life easier, trim the undercarriage, and use conditioner. People might stop asking your name altogether, but everyone will know your pup's=) 2) Are OES's good for North Carolina (we're concerned that it might be too hot here for them)? Lots of OES in your area. 3) How are they with older children (we have a 12- and a 14-year old)? It is the ideal ruckusing, roughhousing, cavorting, frolicking, rolling in the snow or grass, adventuring dog. Be clear when rough is too rough, redirect the puppy when he shows interest in something inappropriate ("no" or "leave it", but right away redirect "oooh look at this, get it"). They love to clown around, adore playing chase and be chased, going on little adventures, and having fun. Do mind your fingers if you intend to play keep away with a stick; they can't always see where the toy ends and the arm begins. Start early with good food and let go/leave it skills, discourage any resource guarding (except in sanctioned play). Ditto with jumping up on people; 12 lbs becomes 90 quickly. If you don't want a 90 lb dog to do it, it's best to establish that sooner. The Art of Raising a Puppy (as well as the other book by the Monks) is clear, engaging, direct and VERY useful in understanding your (hypothetical) dog. Psychology, pack order, needs, urges, best methods, direction, redirection, anticipation, training, problem solving, and leadership are all covered in an inviting, informative, and genuinely helpful manner. It's pretty important that everyone is on the same page with the pup's education (clear communication is golden; preventing a dog from acquiring 'fun' bad habits is MUCH simpler than getting rid of them). On that note, I recommend crate training as a means of making your pup a 'den' where he can be cozy, won't want to go potty (in his bed? eww), and won't be picking up habits (like Vlad destroying the garbage allll over the kitchen floor every night for what seemed an eternity). 4) How much attention do they need (from what I hear they seem to be roughly halfway in between a Jack Russell Terrier and a turtle...is that right?) I think a three year old child might be an apt analogy, though your attention doesn't have to be riveted on them and they can be left alone. As an adult (based on V), he required a few walks a day. Two can be short to medium, better if two are longer. However, playing is crucial so be prepared to run around with your pup and give him the exercise and social interaction he needs. This is also a good time to throw in some training as part of the game. Dogs love to learn and playing with their person is a great reward for them. Even five repetitions, followed by 2 minutes of play for a great sit-stay for example, repeated several times during a walk can contribute to significant results. When you praise your dog, be sincere (um, dogs know when you don't mean it), be consistent with what you're asking; heel is really only one place, facing in one direction. If incorrect, a flat 'no' and redirect to another or the same command in a different spot. Correcting is for telling the dog "wrong" or bringing its attention back to you. If you or the dog get frustrated or edgy, bring it back to positive by repeating a couple of skills he's solid on, praise, and relax. 5) How goofy/trouble-prone are the puppies (should we aim for a "seasoned" dog)? Goofy, yes. Insanely adorable, yes. Any time you correct your puppy in public, be prepared to be regarded as an ogre (but it's soooo cute, awww). Obnoxious, actually. Walking one block may take up to half an hour. You have 2 teenagers, so between 4 cooperating people it should be no trouble. When V was a pup, I never left him alone (got friends to babysit when I went to work) until he hit about 4 months. It's so much simpler to avoid the acquisition of bad habits. Crate training is very handy (and a nice den for the baby). Expect to walk the puppy >many< times per day until housebreaking is accomplished; upon waking up, after eating, drinking, playing, any time you see the pup 'looking around' the room, time to head outside for a walk (10 mins minimum usually, the backyard is not a walk). Also, teach it a phrase to associate with going potty "Go to the bathroom", etc. Praise briefly and play, but up until then it should be 'potty time'. Get it used to being brushed, groomed, teeth brushed, and inspected while it's young; 90 lbs of unwilling dog is a force to be reckoned with. If you do get an OES pup, please do take photos and video. and share =) They grow up so fast... sigh 6) Any other advice? Be very!!! aware of any poisonous and tempting items in your home, garage, and yard. Rat poison is extremely tempting and will cause a horrible death. Antifreeze is super tasty and will destroy an animal's central nervous system; even getting it on their paws and licking it off can do damage (to cats especially, fyi). I've heard of fatalities from the Swiffer jet stuff. Bitter Apple (any good pet shop) spray will make any newly found toy (that isn't) taste horrible. Nylabones, good quality rubber toys, rope pull toys (even with mint =) are good to have handy for chewing, teething, and games of tug o'war and keep away. Be sure innoculations are up to date (ESP parvo). Be alert about pitts; V had his throat almost (literally) ripped out one day in a matter of about 3 minutes. Thanks for any help you can give.
P.S. If you're up to it, OES are absolutely amazing. Apologies for the verrry rambling response. |
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