Doggy IBS? Or does my dog just hate NYC?
I'm new to the forum, but have been "lurking" for a little while now. I am sort of at my wits' end with my sheepie and hope someone can help as I love her quite a bit. The story is this: I had decided I wanted a sheepdog and did some research and thought an older dog would be better for me. I'm a law student, and am home most of the time but I didn't really want to start from scratch with a puppy. After communicating with several breeders, one very reputable one told me she had an older dog--age 7--who was looking for a home. I picked the dog up 3 months ago from the breeder's house. I've been calling her Molly, short for Molasses. When I picked her up she was extremely timid--hiding under a table and shaking. There were other sheepdogs in the house and all seemed well taken care of. Molly has had a few litters and is retired from breeding now. She's really beautiful, but there were some signs of neglect, primarily with her teeth, which are in horrible condition. So that was three months ago. I live in New York City (Brooklyn) in a pet-friendly building in a dog-friendly neighborhood. Before anyone gets upset, please know I asked the former owners if they thought she would take kindly to the city and not being able to run around. They told me she was a complete couch potato, which is basically true. What they didn't tell me is that she's a nervous wreck. For the first two weeks she had horrible diarrhea. I sort of expected this might happen and assumed it was part of the transition period. I was feeding her the same food she's always eaten and I was pretty sure a trip to the vet would make things worse, given her excessive nervousness and the new home. The diarrhea subsided temporarily, and we bonded quite well. Unfortunately, the diarrhea is pretty much constant and explosive. I'm getting up to walk her twice a night about 1am and 5am usually, sometimes more, about 5 nights a week and I live in a 4th floor walkup, so it's an ordeal. I took her to the vet two weeks ago and he said he wasn't concerned, that the diarrhea was from nervousness and she might get over it. Maybe I didn't convey to him how bad it was. He said she's in good health (took blood, etc.), and he's a good vet and took care of my parents' dogs for years. He recommended Pepto Bismol and that's worked temporarily, but I can't keep her on Pepto Bismol forever. He did say her red blood cell count was a bit low. The twist to the story is that around the same time as the vet appointment, I took her to my parents' house in the country for 6 days. I had dreaded it, because it was our first trip together and I worried the diarrhea would be worse than ever. But she was fine. She was pooping like a normal dog! And she had incredible energy and was happy. We went for several hour-long walks. The day we came back to NYC the diarrhea returned. So basically I'm coming to the conclusion that she hates the city. She shakes whenever cars go by, she's afraid of errant plastic bags and tarps on buildings and smaller dogs, and she won't even let me take her to the dog park because she's so worked up (it's a bit of a walk to get there). I want to keep her quite desperately, but, as my friends have noted, it's taken over my life. I also don't feel comfortable letting people dogsit or leaving her in a kennel when we go away (like twice a year), because I don't think anyone could be prepared for what they're getting into. A dogwalker is out of the question. She'd never leave the house with one. And I can't leave New York or move apartments. Over the past three months I've tried everything I've seen recommended on this board: boiled rice and hamburger, immodium-ad (which worked, but can't be taken all the time), reducing water intake, canned pumpkin (horrible results with that), and the pepto bismol. I'm currently feeding her Iams ProActive, which seemed to help at one time but isn't doing anything anymore. Is there anything else I can do? She's the sweetest dog and I give her lots of affection, but I don't know how much longer I can live like this, without sleep and rearranging my study schedule every day to make sure I'm home every 4 hours. If there's nothing I can do about the diarrhea, I will probably try to find her a home in the country where she can let herself out so that she's more comfortable. But if there is something to cure it, I'd love to keep her here as I think she really is quite attached to me. She follows me everywhere. I can't get up off the couch without her coming across the room with me. I really can't imagine life without her, but I want her to have a comfortable life too. I've read on here that OES are prone to diarrhea. Will it always be like this? Should I put her on doggy prozac? Is this still a transition problem? I feel awful but this was not what I was expecting at all. Sorry this is so long. I'll be grateful for any advice anyone can offer. |
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| Welcome from St. Louis.......
I am sure there will be plenty of forum members with suggestions...Here are a few from me... Maybe a visit from a behaviourist to assess her 'issues' and show you how to help her overcome them. She may need calming meds for a while to help her relax and learn what you need to teach her. Maybe an obedience class. It may help realize you are her alpha now. It may take more time for her to feel comfortable in the city. Have you been in touch with her breeder??? Maybe she has some other things to help. Good luck and keep us posted... |
| Thanks Sheepieshake.
I hadn't thought about taking her to obedience classes or to a behaviorist because I thought they would both probably make things worse. She doesn't follow instructions (which is odd, given that she was a show dog), but she's also full of shame if I even look at her the wrong way. You think it would help though? I did speak with the breeders, btw, and they said she was always nervous and timid, but that the diarrhea hadn't been a problem except very occasionally. Her mother is still with them, at age 14, so I guess that's a pretty good sign. |
| Obedience classes are the best thing to beat a "phobia"
When we rescued Murphy he was actually a biter and a runner! He went to classes to overcome his fears and now he is the best dog ever! It has been alot of work, it takes time but, you can get there. Good Luck! Please feel free to ask about anything!  |
| I'm going to agree on the classes thing. It helps in several ways. First; your dog will gain confidence in YOU being her leader, and her support. If she's not an alpha, and it doesn't sound like she is, she's looking for an alpha to lead her. With her coming from a home with multiple dogs, she mostlikely had an alpha that she has now lost, and this has probably shaken her quite badly. When you do classes together, you are essentially telling her that you are her alpha, and that she is to do what you tell her to; whether its obedience or agility or rally. I had this problem with one of our pups, and once she understood who alpha was, she noticeably relaxed.
So she'll get her alpha need sorted out. Additionally, she'll learn she can depend on your, and you will both learn to communicate with each other. Classes with a good instructor (something a bit more advanced than an afternoon spent at Petsmart, perhaps) can help you to see how Molly is trying to communicate with you, and help you to better communicate with her. I was amazed at the level of understanding I was able to achieve with my girls through training. Now I'm a bit of a die hard; we train ALOT. But its because the results have been so good for everyone involved. I'm a big fan of training; you might even consider doing some sessions one on one with a professional. You'll get more out of it, and if Molly is having some socializing issues, it might be a bit soon to throw her into the chaos of a class situation, with a group of other untrained, unsocialized dogs. Growing up, we had our Sheepdog in NYC for many years. She transitioned from our home in the suburbs of NJ to a tiny walk up in Greenwich Village. It can work. Don't lose faith; just recognize that you might want to get some professional help with your situation. It can really make all the difference in the world! |
| Unless the diarrhea started immediately that you got back to the city I wondered if a change to the water that she's drinking is part of the problem.
My mother in law (now no jokes about female dogs and MIL's please  ) cant drink the water here in Melbourne unless its filtered without getting dreadful diarrhea but she's fine with tap water where she lives in the country.
I'd go with the training though as there's obviously an anxiety issue that wouldnt be helping water or not. |
Wow, thanks for all the responses! I'm glad there's hope for her. And re: the water, I had wondered about that. I'll try filtering it before I give it to her from now on. Of course, she drinks about 4 gallons a day so that will take some time!  |
| well NYC water is suppossed to be the best in the country - but you could have some issues with the pipes in your building so that could be an issue.
Its probably the noise , and could also be the air quality. Noise phobias really need veterinary intervention. if your vet won't take your issues seriously try another vet. also sign up on Yahoo Shy K-9 List - lots of NYC people if I remember correctly and lots of the ground you are covering they have already covered. check out Dr. Karen Overall Relaxation Protocol - it will also help bonding the two of you, as well as helping her to relax. I don't remember if you mentioned a change in diet. a change in diet can cause the poops - even a new cookie can affect one of mine. |
kerry wrote: well NYC water is suppossed to be the best in the country - but you could have some issues with the pipes in your building so that could be an issue.
It may be a question of going from well water to city water. That's a huge difference. I still have a hard time drinking city water and I fill jugs up every time I go to my mom's. |
ButtersStotch wrote: kerry wrote: well NYC water is auppossed to be the best in the country - but you could have some issues with the pipes in your building so that could be an issue. It may be a question of going from well water to city water. That's a huge difference. I still have a hard time drinking city water and I fill jugs up every time I go to my mom's. Isn't NYC water piped in from the mountains north of the city? It was so good; one of the things i miss.... |
Darth Snuggle wrote: ButtersStotch wrote: kerry wrote: well NYC water is auppossed to be the best in the country - but you could have some issues with the pipes in your building so that could be an issue. It may be a question of going from well water to city water. That's a huge difference. I still have a hard time drinking city water and I fill jugs up every time I go to my mom's. Isn't NYC water piped in from the mountains north of the city? It was so good; one of the things i miss.... yeah much of the upstate catskills have NYC watershed protections. and it goes through ancient huge pipes into the city
we actually have nyc tasting water now that we live on a private reservoir in the catskills |
| The water can be really clean and taste great but some tummies just dont like the mineral content or the chemicals used to make the water safe to drink.
Its a long shot but having seen the effect it has on my MIL might be worth a try. I do agree though that anxiety has a big effect on the gut. But the less things to upset the poor girls tummy the better |
Mim wrote: The water can be really clean and taste great but some tummies just dont like the mineral content or the chemicals used to make the water safe to drink.
Its a long shot but having seen the effect it has on my MIL might be worth a try. I do agree though that anxiety has a big effect on the gut. But the less things to upset the poor girls tummy the better For some reason it is very funny to me that your MIL keeps being used as the comparison factor.  |
| I see that you mentioned that your vet took blood, but did he do a stool work up to see if there were any parasites? A parasite like Giardia cycles so you may see improvement, and then bam, it's back again.
As far as the behavior, we have a girl that we got at age 5, who was also a breeder's dog, and only spent her life in a kennel situation. She was very skittish and it has taken a long, long time to help her overcome that. (She'll be 9 in January.) We still have days where she would prefer to be shy, but most of the time, she's pretty good and you can tell she is very happy. Best thing to do is to continue to expose her to social situations. Especially with other dogs if she's used to being around them. Don't coddle or discipline her when she is acting skittish, it just encourages the behavior. Reward her with little treats when you think that she is being brave or outgoing. It really seems like a mountain right now, but the reward is worth it! |
| That's really helpful advice, Verve. I've definitely been coddling her when she's skittish. Part of it is just that people look at me like I'm abusing her when I take her for walks because she's so scared, so I go out of my way to show what a loving dog-mom I am. But that's not helping her at all.
And when she goes to the vet I'll ask them to check for giardia. Honestly I was surprised he didn't last time. I know this is a dumb question, but why aren't the kennel dogs socialized properly? I think I thought she would have the world's most easy disposition because she had such good genes, but that seems pretty naive now. |
| Oh, also, I should mention that she hasn't been spayed. When I got her she was quite overweight and it didn't seem like a good idea to do the operation, especially given how skittish she was. Do you think spaying might help with the nervousness? |
anniehall wrote: I know this is a dumb question, but why aren't the kennel dogs socialized properly? I think I thought she would have the world's most easy disposition because she had such good genes, but that seems pretty naive now.
That is a good question and every breeder is different. It boils down to if they have a lot of dogs, they may not take the time to stick one in the car and go to the local park, etc. They may feel that their dogs are getting enough exercise because they may be running around with the other dogs. Usually the kennel dogs are well socialized around other dogs, which of course is important too. They are just not used to people and environmental changes, and 7 years is a long time for those impressions to be formed. The problem for our girl was that she was pretty afraid of groups of people. She used to run & hide every time we had more than a couple of people at the house. She's the life of the party now, so things can/will get better. She may not ever be a typical goofy, over-the-top, sheepdog, but most likely you will see changes everyday. Just expect baby steps. Regarding not being spayed, there are hormone changes. With he behavior you describe, coming into season would only play a small part. |
anniehall wrote: Part of it is just that people look at me like I'm abusing her when I take her for walks because she's so scared, so I go out of my way to show what a loving dog-mom I am. But that's not helping her at all.
I kind of know what you mean here too. I would take Rebecca out for a walk with our other sheepdog and if the leash slightly touched her, she would just start trying to get away like she was running scared. Always have to make sure that her collar is on tight because she had slipped it once. I kind of always tried to ignore the behavior, be the confident one, etc. |
Quote: For some reason it is very funny to me that your MIL keeps being used as the comparison factor. Twisted Evil
I see your point
Just dont tell my mother in law |
| Ha ha. It's even funnier because if you knew Molly you'd see that she has some very mother-in-lawish qualities. |
| If you knew my MIL you'd probably laugh even harder |
| if she has a clinical issue - spaying her may intensify it. I would work on the anxiety and then deal with spaying her if you are so inclined.
Deb had a good point about her slipping her collar - you should also try a martingale, or non-slip; humane; greyhound collar (same collar a bunch of different names |
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