Are Rawhide Chews Safe for a Puppy?
Our last old english died of stomach torsion and though the vet said it had nothing to do with rawhide and her stomach was empty, she had a rawhide chew (small one) and ate it the day before she died. But obviously Sophie needs something and I just don't know what to do. She has real bones (very old, very hard) but just wants to chew something else) like destroying a string of Christmas lights, and eating a wooden skate off a Christmas decoration! Help |
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| how about a meaty bone from the butcher? or one of those canvas "bones" you can freeze? |
| There are Bully Sticks, but honestly I don't see much difference between a dried penis and dried hide.
Have you tried Kongs with peanutbutter in them? Your baby is having teething problems and needs to chew to relieve the pain. |
SheepieBoss wrote: There are Bully Sticks, but honestly I don't see much difference between a dried penis and dried hide.
well they do seem to digest differently, my guys get bully sticks occassionally but only the parrot gets the rawhide  |
| I NEVER let Harry have rawhide. I had a sheepdog growing up who always had rawhide and her stomach was always a mess. If someone gives Harry a gift and it is a rawhide I give it away. |
Quote: well they do seem to digest differently,
Good to know, thanks! BTW, how do you keep Santa Sheepdog's beard clean? Or do you use it as a towel? |
| who says its clean - photos lie. |
| I'd avoid raw hide... just a personal opinion. Does she have all her adult teeth? Bumble is close to 7 months now and he's had his adult teeth for maybe a month and a half now.
I wonder if it's just time to get a bigger Nylabone... maybe call the mfr. and talk with them. The favorite here is the "Souper" bone. http://www.nylabone.com/pdf/chewchart.pdf But we have the Beef Bone, Dyno Bone and Turkey Leg too... they're said to be good for powerful chewers. http://www.nylabone.com/products/non-edible/big-chews/ |
| I dont give Obe rawhide. |
| She seems to have all her adult teeth just not in all the way. |
| I'll add another "no" vote on rawhide. They are basically slimy and indigestible once chewed. I also don't give my OES bones, even big sturdy ones. They seem to be strong enough to splinter ANY bone.
peanut butter in a kong seems fine as are those hard chews made mostly of rice which also seem to do a fair job of tooth cleaning. But nothing will give a determined sheepdog more than a few minutes of entertainment in my experience. |
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bully_stick
So what is the thoughts on bully sticks? I don't give Laika rawhide but I have given her Bully sticks she loves them! |
| I use them (bully sticks) occassionally - the cost is the only reason I don't treat them more often with them |
| Chauncey likes an occassional smoked pig ear. We've never had any problems with them, our Lab loved them for his 13 years. We do not leave him home alone with anything like this though. |
| I read an article not long ago about rawhides, and the fact that there are really no standards for them. There are all sorts of "bugs" that can be present. I know that Portage, our eleven year old sheepie gets very sick (digestively) after even a short chew (one where it does not even look like he's swallowed anything). So none for him.
I've had a few occasions where I've yanked one out of a dog who was trying to swallow a large chunk. I can only imagine what would have happened had I not been there. My rule used to be no rawhides unless I'm supervising. Now it's just no rawhides at all. I know Hudson would LOVE one, but I just don't think it's worth it. I use Kongs. You can stuff them with whatever you like, and then throw them in the dishwasher to clean them. I've never (yet) had a dog who could get one of those apart. JMHO |
Due to my fear of feeding my dogs pretty much everything anymore, chew treats are harder to come by. Anymore, one of the few treats they get are Flossies, which are just digestible tendons and they don't stain fur either. It keeps the puppy occupied forever and I feel relatively safe with him having them. I still supervise, though. I never trust a puppy not to try something silly like cramming the whole thing in his mouth.
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| There is no way I would ever give my dogs Raw hides or Dried pigs ears (same thing happened to a friend with Pigs ears) to munch on. I nearly lost an OES to a raw hide that lodged in her throat, thank god I was home at the time when she had it to pull it out of her throat as she was choking.
Stick to hard dog bikkies, raw meat marrow bone, Kong stuffed with treats more natural stuff to satisfy there chewing & keeping them safe while munching.  |
| I have never given rawhide to any of my gang, I do not trust it. My puppy who is 5 mos. is chewing non stop. He is chewing his toys and I have just been replacing them. I figure buying new ones does not compare to the price I would be paying in vet bills if I gave him rawhide. I also am free from having to worry |
| Well, thanks for all the advice. Sophie is chewing up a toy as we type. I just hope it ends soon. I don't remember how long the chewing lasts but this is enough to drive you bonkers. |
| There is nothing wrong with raw hides. The stomach problems you see in almost (not all but close to it) all OES is the 'purebred dog paradox'. The paradox is that inbreeding is a tool to allow us to keep the furry friendly herding dogs and all their good characteristics (the same with all purebreds) but this is linked to the fact that every single OES is severely inbreed and thus they have bigger health and ususally stomach problems than a mutt which has no inbreeding in it.
I'd be careful about blaming certain foods or even rawhides for health problems. Purebred dogs are great, but their ALL inbreed right from labs to OES. As for your puppy, I agree with a few people in that I'd start out with the kong. I wouldn't advise anyone to let their dog have any bone chew toy unsurpervised, rawhide or otherwise. In the clinic we sometimes get calls from pet owners who's dogs started choking on chew toys like that. I've had to do emergency rescue by reaching half-way down an OES dog's throat and pulling out a lodged chew bone. They can stick to the back on the throat. kongs are much safer in general, but they also provide the ability to spray different things into them so there are new scents and tastes. It prevents the dogs from getting bored. You can throw peanut butter in it. Maybe cheesey stuff (though i personally hate cheese wiz things) and i think they also make special spray scent-taste things for the kongs. You can also get one type of ball that the dog can chew and as he/she rolls it treat will drop out. I used to do this for my old OES and put his actual meals in it so that he could get 7-8 meals per day and had to work for his food. Most dogs prefer to work for food rather than having it presented to them in a bowl, believe it or not, but that's off topic. Basically i agree with the previously stated kong idea, but you can give rawhide so long as you'll be there to supervise. Hope that helps  |
Victoria01 wrote: There is nothing wrong with raw hides. The stomach problems you see in almost (not all but close to it) all OES is the 'purebred dog paradox'. The paradox is that inbreeding is a tool to allow us to keep the furry friendly herding dogs and all their good characteristics (the same with all purebreds) but this is linked to the fact that every single OES is severely inbreed and thus they have bigger health and ususally stomach problems than a mutt which has no inbreeding in it.
The big issue is choking, not so much digestion, although rawhide doesn't actually break down like food, it just sort of degrades a bit and comes out. Huge hunks can cause blockages. That's simple common sense and has nothing to do with a dog's breed. As an aside, though purebred dogs are obviously bred within a specific gene pool, the idea behind responsible breeding is to carefully study pedigrees and develop a sound breeding program based not only on breed characteristics but on keeping the lines distant enough so you don't start getting problems in them that you would get from overbreeding within a line. |
ButtersStotch wrote: The big issue is choking, not so much digestion, although rawhide doesn't actually break down like food, it just sort of degrades a bit and comes out. Huge hunks can cause blockages. That's simple common sense and has nothing to do with a dog's breed.
EXACTLY there a danger to any large breed wether that is a mix or pure bred. They go soft and soggy, don't break down and can easily slip down the throat and cause a dog to choke or even worse they can cause blockages. Same with greenies that seems to be sold in most vet practices as they get a commission, unnatural, and dogs have died from them, now they have changed the formula but I would still not let my dogs munch on them. Nothing beats a big natural raw meaty marrow bone to keep them happy chewing away for ages regardless of if they are pure bred or just a cross.. And Victoria my OES have never had any problems digestively they have cast iron stomachs and tolerate a huge variety of food, from high grade dry as a filler to raw human grade meats and veggies as the main part of their diet. Very rarely do I have problems with sloppy ones  And the bitch line is tightly line bred. |
Quote: The big issue is choking, not so much digestion, although rawhide doesn't actually break down like food, it just sort of degrades a bit and comes out. Huge hunks can cause blockages. That's simple common sense and has nothing to do with a dog's breed.
Yup... 1- My Border Collie-mix had a piece of rawhide lodged in her throat. By the time we got to the on-call vet, she had swallowed it. We were told symptoms to look for because it might also become lodged in her stomach causing an obstruction. 2- My OES rescue ate rawhide and had vomiting and diarrhea (both with blood). She was given an antibiotic and we boosted her probiotics. We only gave ours rawhide from the USA and they were never allowed to consume an entire chew. Some rawhide comes from China or Brazil. What chemicals are used to treat/bleach/preserve it? We feed holistic food and this went against what we were trying to do. You also need to be careful about giving some of these products around children and immune challenged people who might come into contact with it because there have been salmonella recalls on a few products. We had one vet tell us that our dog wasn't actually supposed to sit down and eat rawhide. We were supposed to give it to them until it began to get soft, then take it away and let it dry out again... they could only have it for a few minutes if done this way. This article seems to support this- http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... 7&aid=1039 But then you may have issues of bacteria or mold. 
Kongs are GREAT! We use these too. You still need to supervise and select one that matches the dogs size and chewing ability. http://oesusa.com/ChewPower.jpg If a dog chews off a piece, it becomes a choking or intestinal obstruction hazard. With both Kongs and Nylabones, you need to select a size that is appropriate for the size and chewing ability of the dog. In multiple dog homes, it's might be safest to select a chew/kong size that is no smaller than what's required for the largest dog in the home. When we brought Bumble in (arrived at around 22 pounds) we selected a chew that would still be safe for the 65 pound girls. And with growing puppies, a time comes when you need reassess the puppy toys to see if they're still safe for your now-much-bigger puppy. All of these toys carry warnings about proper supervision and use. Below are charts the mfrs. provide for selecting the right size chew or food toy- Kong Sizing Chart- http://www.kongcompany.com/KONGSizeChart.pdf Nylabone Sizing Chart- http://www.nylabone.com/pdf/chewchart.pdf |
| My vet has told me stories about bloackages from rawhide as well. |
| I would say no to rawhide as well.....
Nylabones, kongs, the super hard baked big cookie type treats are all great chewing alternatives. |
| I said that it causes choking and not digestion. and i also said that purebreeds have health problems in comparison to mutts. that's true no matter how good the breeding program is I'm afraid. That doesn't mean the dog is unhealthy. Let keep in my dog's are meant to have a lifespan of 2-4 years. most last 10-12 some can go as long as 18 because of medical and good nutrition and human maintenance. Same thing with human. lifespan is suppose to be 35-40, but we live to be up to 90 sometimes.
That OES that's a cross between an OES and another outbreed is healthier- that's not to say it's not without health problems itself just no inbreed problems. I've never met an OES without a stomach problem- it's nothing major, they just have weak stomach is all. It means that they can't just be fed table scraps, they need good (using that term VERY loosely as it depends on the individual) dog foods that have to be switched very slowly. This problem is seen in mutts, but far less. Oure first dog was an OES mutt. He was 90% OES and 10% hound. He looked like an OES and acted like one. But was healthy as a horse. He was actually close to the size of one, outweighed all OES' and go figure- he was the runt of his littler and that's why we got him to try and save him. He ate an entire pizza one day (my dad was less than pleased to find him on the table and no pizza after paying the pizza guy) and didn't have one problem. I feed my Roxy too many dog treats or a little too much kibble and she has the runs non-stop including bleeding. She's actually the worst I've had my other OES' have had their stomach problems but nothing major. Anyway, I'll shut up now as I probably shouldn't have even posted this in the first place. |
Quote: I've never met an OES without a stomach problem- it's nothing major, they just have weak stomach is all. It means that they can't just be fed table scraps, they need good (using that term VERY loosely as it depends on the individual) dog foods that have to be switched very slowly.
We can often only base our opinions on what we've seen and experienced ourselves. Only 1 out of 7 of my dogs has a stomach/intestinal issues... she throws up on occasion. We have 5 OESs ages 7 months, 4 years and 5 years; a Border Collie-mix age 11 and a Schipperke?-mix age 10. The one with stomach issues is an OES that's on Uroeze to acidify her urine because of a ph imbalance and it appears to be causing stomach upset. She also gets a buffered aspirin in the AM for hip dysplasia which adds to the stomach irritation. We had a consult with our vet last week to see if a higher protein diet might allow her to discontinue or decrease the med. She's perfectly fine if we supplement with cooked meats but if we add fruits and vegetables, her urinary ph rises to 8 which is too high and she then pees in the house. It would be nice if a nutritional change would allow her to get off meds... we expect we'll be doing some food trials and monitoring of her ph to see. We do feed "table scraps" if you mean some leftover food that hasn't been seasoned much. Example- They had cooked sweet potato, carrots and beef today along with their regular kibble with a spoonful of Wellness canned food to top it. We feed a good kibble as the foundation but alternate between a variety of cooked meats including beef, pork, chicken, turkey, salmon or whitefish... yesterday they had eggs. We also supplement with usually one of the following- broccoli, cauliflower, zucchini, green beans, cabbage, sweet potatoes, occasional carrots, apple, orange, melon, etc. if we aren't in the allergy season. Also plain yogurt, a treat of goat's milk or a little cottage cheese. The breeder we got our last pup from told us about a vegetable stew she makes to feed her dogs so we've added that on occasion too... we put their kibble in it just before feeding and they LOVE it. Even when Bumble was given part of an plain vanilla ice cream cone there were no stomach/intestinal issues (he was trying to get into every car we walked by http://oesusa.com/index.412.jpg  ). We also rotate all 4 Eagle Pack Holistic Select kibble varieties as Lisa had recommended to help prevent a food intolerance. We've begun switching over to a bag of Wellness on occasion just for variety... we don't need to transition over as most vets recommend. We stuff Kongs with Wysong rabbit or one of the Wellness canned foods. They've also gotten Honest Kitchen (we call it slop) on occasion.
I have to wonder if probiotics and digestive enzymes may play a roll in they're good digestive health??? We began adding it to the pack's meals back in April of 2007. 
I'm not trying to say there are no stomach issues in OESs because there are some members of the forum who's dogs have problems. I'm also not trying to say that there are no health problems in some of the lines because there surely are... |
Victoria01 wrote: I've never met an OES without a stomach problem- it's nothing major, they just have weak stomach is all. It means that they can't just be fed table scraps, they need good (using that term VERY loosely as it depends on the individual) dog foods that have to be switched very slowly. This problem is seen in mutts, but far less. My first OES had some tummy issues and had diarrhea once a month no matter what we did or didn't do, constant "bacterial overgrowths" according to the vet. On the other hand he once ate an entire cooked chicken carcass from the trash without any ill effects.
Our current boy has had diarrhea only a handful of times in the 4 years we've had him and those for just an episode or two -- and he eats lots of different table scraps. They're all different. 
No need to "shut up" or rue posting, we're all friends here  and we all have different opinions. |
lisaoes wrote: And Victoria my OES have never had any problems digestively they have cast iron stomachs and tolerate a huge variety of food, from high grade dry as a filler to raw human grade meats and veggies as the main part of their diet. Very rarely do I have problems with sloppy ones
And the bitch line is tightly line bred. Neither of my OES have stomach issues, either. With the big boys, I don't even bother switching foods very slowly when I transition anymore. There's no need. Out of the last four dogs I've had, my mixed breed dog was the one who had health problems-- allergies, digestion issues. So much for hybrid vigor.  |
Quote: So much for hybrid vigor.
Even though he's kind of joking my vet says with a mix you either get the best of both breeds OR the worst of both breeds but with a "properly bred" pure breed at least you know what you're likely to get. I have 3 pure bred pets so maybe he's just trying to make my day.  |
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