Waaaaaay off-topic; anyone know anything about Cats?
 But I'm wondering if anyone has any personal experience with health issues with Cats.
I just got back from the vet; my beloved Bibbers (one of two 14 year old litter mates I have) has dropped a tremendous amount of weight. When I had her at the Vet's last April for weight loss; she was had gone from a fat 14 pounds to 11 pounds, which is a big deal. We had something like $800 of blood work done only to be told that she's very healthy for her age. She was looking very small to me lately, and I was thinking I wanted to take her in to be weighted again, when she turned up with a blood caked nose last night. So I take her in this morning, and she's down to 8 pounds!!!!! 
A urine sample has shown her urine to be an orange color, so with fears of liver and kidney issues, we've asked for the blood work to be done again. So in this economy, with the holidays approaching and trying to buy a home, I requested another $700 of blood work. 
I'm so afraid its renal failure or something horrible. Two of my friends each lost cats this year after kidney failure. I've been crying since I left the vet's and I won't even get the blood work results until Monday. Anyone have any feedback? Anyone have anything similar, that ended okay, and not with their cat having to be put to sleep? |
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| My kitty had a dramatic weight loss that turned out to be caused by kidney failure. I was shocked as he'd always been perfectly healthy, no stones, crystals, etc. Anyway, the diagnosis was pretty dire. I was told he had maybe a month to live. I opted to try supporting him with with a kidney specific diet and sub-cutaneous fluids and with that treatment, he regained his strength and was able to live another 16 months, at least 12 of which were happy and healthy. He adapted really well to the fluids. I think the Vet can give a few days of fluids and if he responds, he may do well with treatment. I am really sorry that you and your kitty are going through this. I remember how distraught I was when we got the diagnosis. . . Best wishes. . . |
| Bibbers has always been really healthy too. She's been doing this weight loss thing since last April; thats already 8 months. And her blood work from back then showed no problems at all. I love her so much and I really was counting on having her until she was in her early 20's... I really thought she would just keep being healthy. I feel so guilty; the dogs have changed things so much, and the cats have really had a hard time adapting. I really felt that with time it would work out, and now I'm afraid Bibbers is out of time. I don't want her to die at all, but I especially don't want her to go after a year of having to hide from the dogs; a year of having her home invaded by these rambunctious interlopers. |
now I'm going to go all sentimental and post photos of what we like to call The Fabulous Bibbers.
Bibbers has gone by many names; Bibbs, Bibbity Boop, And Bibzilla, the last of which inspired Adam to do this photoshop job.... 
you can see there just how fat a kitty Bibbers used to be. Bibbers modeling a hat and mitten set I made for a friend's baby 2 Christmases ago: 
And lastly a photo of Bibbs from that food recall a while back. All three of my cats had been eating the contaminated food, and while they ended up escaping with no problems, we put this photo together for the occasion. It seems heartbrakingly appropriate right now. 
I'm hoping that against all odds. that Bibbers doesn't have Chronic Renal Failure. But after spending some hours online doing a bit of reading, I can't think of what else this could be. |
| Allison
I am so sorry
Actually, some cats do respond well to supportive care. (Like Valerie said fluids and special diet) Bibbers is beautiful! Good Luck Ms Bibbers! |
| Hi Allison,
My heart goes out to you. I probably shouldn't be saying this on an OES forum, but I am really a cat person. I have been breeding and showing Himalayans since I was 12 and my mom said my first word was cat. Cats are very stoic creatures. Many cats do not show symptoms until they are literally at death's door. My next statement may sound callous, but comes from many years of experience. I now longer do anything extraordinary to prolong the life of any of my cats diagnosed with a terminal illness. I give them top notch nutrition and "hospice" care, until my vet and I feel they are obviously suffering. My vet agrees with me. Usually, because cats do hide things so well they are so far along in the disease process that treating the disease is fruitless. Many times the cat suffers more from the treatment than the actual disease. My Bonkers also had Chronic Renal Failure. I was able to keep him living a good quality of life, albeit thin as a rail,l for almost 18 months after he was diagnosed, through diet and fluids. I was very happy to have that almost 18 "extra" months with him. He was a very special cat for a lot of reasons! Good Luck Fabulous Bibbers! Kathie |
| What a gorgeous kitty! She looks so cuddly and soft. |
Bibbers looks just like a fun tom cat we had on the farm growing up. His name was Thomas T. Twinkletoes. 
I love the Super Cat picture! |
| Did the vet mention maybe diabetes? |
Donner's Mom wrote: Did the vet mention maybe diabetes?
we won't know anything for sure until Monday when the blood work comes back. As silly as it sounds, I'm hoping for something far less fatal, like diabetes. C'mon Diabetes!!! |
kajochen wrote: I now longer do anything extraordinary to prolong the life of any of my cats diagnosed with a terminal illness. I give them top notch nutrition and "hospice" care, until my vet and I feel they are obviously suffering.
I don't think this is callous at all; its actually what I am considering doing myself. Two of my freinds lost their cats to Renal Failure this year, and I watched them dwindle away and suffer. I know my friends meant well, but I think they held on too long. In one case the cat was found struggling it a pool of its own urine, unable to get to its litter box. I adore all of my pets; and I want to say that Bibbers was something special. But she's no more special than my other 2 cats and my 2 sheedpogs. They are all so wonderful to me. And saying that; I won't let any of them live a life that isn't a good one. Sure I'd love an extra week, an extra month. But not at the expense of Bibbers' quality of life. She's had 14 great years; I don't want her to end with 3 miserable weeks. Of course, I don't want it to end at all. I'm still hoping for news that will let her meet that 20 year goal I had set for her. |
| It does sound like renal failure to me too Allison. Just make sure she is still comfortable...I don't blame you for wanting to keep her quality of life. I had to make that decision for my standard poodle with bone cancer.
Thinking of you.  |
| My little Siamese (Saffy) has had bouts of extreme weight loss for years. The vet has never worked out why. She had a serious accident when she was younger which required around 4 specialist operations all involving near-death experiences. She's had so many occasions of looking/acting incredibly close to giving up, but she always surprises us and keeps on going. I think that's the thing about cats though, they can be so stubborn, and if anyone can get through a serious illness, it's a cat. Right now, Saffy's plump,happy and old acting like nothing in the world has ever been wrong with her.
I hope your sweet little cat can pull through in the same way. |
| sorry allison - not a cat person but I know how hard this can be. you said the cats were eating the containated cat food - could this be the caus eof his issue? i know cats respond differently to things than dogs. |
I'm so sorry to hear you are going through this 
If it is kidney issues then it may very well have been accelerated by the contaminated food
I hope he pulls through and you can enjoy a few more healthy years with him. |
| I've never gone through anything like that with my cats, but I'm so sorry to hear that your beautiful cat may be going through something serious. I hope for the best. |
| My son's cat went from 12 lbs to 7 lbs. - difficult to tell at first because she is a long hair calico and hated to be picked up.
Great appetite, no other changes that we could tell. Turned out that her blood sugar was a bit high and the vet decided it was borderline diabetes. All of the other labs were normal. She was put on Purina DM and slowly gained back to 10 lbs. My son didn't realize that she had been peeing a lot until that stopped. After a year on DM, her blood sugar level is normal. I'm still concerned about her weight as she is more around 9 lbs. She hasn't been interested in the DM lately - and according to the cat sites, DM is not very tasty. We switched to a a high protein/ow carb canned and a high protein/low carb, calorie dense dry. The focus is on the canned, but we are adding a bit of the dry for the calories and weight gain. Once again, we are interested in a slow, heathy gain, not fat. My son rescued her from the parking lot of his apt complex. She weighed in at 6 lbs then. We have no idea what her life was lie before or if she had any health issues. Even her age is just a guess. Good luck and best wishes for good lab results. Even if it turns out to be diabetes and insulin is required, there are a large number of cats who do very well on it. |
| thanks everyone. Its been one heck of a soul searching day.
I'll have more news on Monday. In the meantime, I've been reading up on holistic remedies, and I'm considering contacting a holistic vet when I learn more about what may be wrong with the Fabulous Bibbers. Until then, her fabulousness endures. |
| Hi,
Just read this post and I'm so sorry you and Bibbers are going through this. What a sweatheart of a cat and your pics made me smile. I am praying you get the news you want on Monday. My thoughts are with you. Marianne |
| Both of our cats have lost weight since Archie turned up on the scene, he steals their food, and chases them to say hello at every opportunity
This month there annual health check said they seem very healthy for 10 years old the vet even commented on Marmalades weight loss doing him good. Here's a piccy from last week, Marmalade with his personal Weight management coach! http://www.milligoon.dsl.pipex.com/am.jpg |
Archies Slave wrote: Both of our cats have lost weight since Archie turned up on the scene, he steals their food, and chases them to say hello at every opportunity
This month there annual health check said they seem very healthy for 10 years old the vet even commented on Marmalades weight loss doing him good. Here's a piccy from last week, Marmalade with his personal Weight management coach! http://www.milligoon.dsl.pipex.com/am.jpg I have been thinking about this very thing. Bibbers' weight loss started when we got the puppies. Stress can lead to cats not eating; not eating leads to starvation, and in a heavier cat, starvation can lead to something called Hepatic Lipidosis or Fatty Liver Disease. So... if this is what is going on, and Bibbers dies, its my desire to have sheepdogs that will have killed her.  |
| I would wait and see if there is any bad news before blaming yourself.
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| Could be all that being chased led to a weight loss...exercise. |
| A cat with HL usually has no appetite. It can be treated, if caught early enough and treated aggressively enough. Force feeding is often required for many weeks. The lab work will let you know if that is an issue.
I guess I'm spoiled as my vet does the standard lab work in house, so we have the results in 15 minutes or less for almost everything. Even the stuff that is sent out comes back over night, with only a few exceptions. |
Mom of 3 wrote: A cat with HL usually has no appetite. It can be treated, if caught early enough and treated aggressively enough. Force feeding is often required for many weeks. The lab work will let you know if that is an issue.
I guess I'm spoiled as my vet does the standard lab work in house, so we have the results in 15 minutes or less for almost everything. Even the stuff that is sent out comes back over night, with only a few exceptions. Its overnight for us too; problem is I took her in on Saturday, and they don't have office hours on Sunday. The vet does however take calls; I feel very fortunate. We talked today, and agreed to bring Bibbers in first thing tomorrow and review the lab results together and check her again. |
| Bidders is precious. What great pictures! Our guy, Leo (who passed away last May) was extremely healthly and active, and then...just stopped. Stopped playing, stopped eating, stopped walking around the house. Just laid on the couch in the family room. His weight dropped rapidly. He was 15 years old. He just got old, really fast. We wanted to let him live out his days without Vet intervention, since he didn't seemed to be in any pain. But then about 2 weeks into it, he seemed distressed. I think it had to be lack of food and water. We were getting ready to leave on a trip, and did not want him to pass with us gone, so we helped him to the bridge. I don't know if he had an illness. I just "knew" his life was running out. I still miss him. He used to walk into the family room and look at us with this incredibly surprised look! As if to say, "OH! Is this where you are?" I hope you get some good news from the Vet. But know that Bidder will let you know when its time. My heart is with you. |
| Just catching up on the forum after the holiday and am so sorry to hear your kitty's ill. I have a 13-year-old who was always fat, then lost a lot of weight and it turned out to just be thyroid. So he takes medicine every day, and he's fine now. I'll be hoping for the best for Bidders! |
| ok; back from the vet. Bibbers is there still.
Kidneys are fine. So no Renal failure. Her liver however is, it seems, trying to kill her. BAD Liver. 
The vet is going to do some x-rays. If its cancer of the liver, and its spread, he should be able to see tumors in Bibbers' chest in an x-ray. If that is the case, I'll give her the biggest kiss good-bye, and send her to wait for me at the Bridge.
If the x-ray shows no tumors, the vet will initiate blood work to get a biopsy done. We have to see if Bibbers' blood can still clot. She had a bloody nose on Friday night, which might indicate clotting problems. It also might indicate cancer that has spread to the chest cavity. If her blood clotting is good, we'll make an appointment to get the biopsy on her liver done. While she's under for that, they'll put in a feeding tube. If we get this far, it's really important that we start getting calories into her. If she doesn't have cancer, then her liver is failing due to starvation. And if we can get her eating, and get her liver sorted out, she can recover. Please say a prayer for my sweetie. I'll let everyone know what I find out tonight. Until then; here's another Bibbers photo I had done shortly after Tonks and Luna came to live with us last year. I say I love her as much as all my other pets, but its odd how it seems that only my photos of Bibbers seem to get these cartoon treatments....  |
| I'll be praying for her (and you!) |
| Bless her little heart. Sounds like you have a good vet looking after her. Hoping for the best..... |
| will definitely be praying for you both
|
| Allison,
My fingers and all the four footed paws are crossed for you and the Fabulous Bibbers. Hoping it is not liver cancer. Kathie |
| Lots of positive thoughts headed your way. |
| thanks everyone.
Bibbers is home; so first hurdle cleared. I really spent the day preparing myself for the worst. X-rays did not show tumors in her chest; so if it is cancer is has not metastasized. I was told that if we saw that today, Bibbers was pretty much done. But we didn't see that.
So next step is to eliminate cancer all together by doing a biopsy. So later this week, if the blood work looks okay, Bibs will go for a biopsy to better diagnose what up. Please keep the positive thougths coming; I think its working!!!!  |
| Lots of good luck thoughts coming your way from Aus. I lost my 16 year old siamese last year to lymphoma so I really feel for you-its so worrying. Hang in there. |
okay; third trip to the vet today; this one a specialist. And I'm relieved to report that Bibbers is going to be okay!!!!  She seems to have the least dangerous of liver diseases, Hepatic Lipidosis, or fatty liver. She'll recover with a feeding tube in her neck, and me shovelling calories into her!
She should be able to come home tomorrow; thank you everyone for your support and positive thoughts! |
Oh good news!!! now you just have to buy her a new house  |
| Great news, Allison!
That is wonderful. |
| Oh that is great!!!!! I'm so happy for you. Tomorrow we take our Khobi to Vet to find out about his eyes. Wish us luck now! |
kerry wrote: Oh good news!!! now you just have to buy her a new house
its so funny; I kept telling her:" you can't die yet; I'm buying you a house!" about a week ago I went to a cat show ( I know I know; I'm a bad dog lady) and I ordered a way over the top custom made Cat Tree. I was thinking in the new house, I could set it up so the cats could have a place to retreat to from the dogs. And the thought of going into the new house, with this new Cat thingie, and not having Bibbers was just so heartbreaking. |
Darth Snuggle wrote: kerry wrote: Oh good news!!! now you just have to buy her a new house its so funny; I kept telling her:" you can't die yet; I'm buying you a house!" about a week ago I went to a cat show ( I know I know; I'm a bad dog lady) and I ordered a way over the top custom made Cat Tree. I was thinking in the new house, I could set it up so the cats could have a place to retreat to from the dogs. And the thought of going into the new house, with this new Cat thingie, and not having Bibbers was just so heartbreaking. well they will love watching the birds in the trees from their new windows! |
| yeah for Bibbers going to be okay! |
| Yea!
Just be aware that takes time to get over HL. |
Mom of 3 wrote: Yea!
Just be aware that takes time to get over HL. I'm aware; I'm just relieved that its time we will have, as opposed to some of the other things that could have been wrong, which would have left us no time with Bibbers at all. |
 That's wonderful news!! I'm so relieved for you both |
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Bibbers isn't okay anymore. Didn't take long, did it? Since coming home, we've had her back to the specialist twice. We can't really figure out why she isn't showing improvement, and she's staying there today while they look into the possibility of her having a growth or tumor in her nasal passages, which could have been the primary problem, resulting in her not eating and the secondary issue of hepatic lipidosis. I had cried so hard when she was really ill, and we didn't know what is was, waiting to learn if it was cancer. I tried to prepare myself to send her to the Bridge. Then I got the good news that her condition wasn't fatal and was very treatable with time. And now I'm back to trying to prepare myself for the worst. It feels harder to do now, having had that false hope of a recovery dangled in front of me.  |
| That is crappy news....
I sympathize, we have had the worst time here lately. |
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| Sweetheart, I'm so sorry. Nothing I can say will make you feel better. But I wish I could make her well, and young again. Just know, my heart is with you. |
| So sorry Allison...my thoughts are with you. |
| Oh, no. I'm so sorry. i hope they figure out what is wrong with her. |
| Okay; as much as I don't enjoy the emotional roller coaster; Bibbers is home again. and really seems to be doing well this time. Fingers crossed. Her feeding tube site had an infection, and one of the sutures had torn out. So they cleaned and re-did that. They also gave her an enema; apparently she pooped a whole 'nother cat! I was so worried that she was passing no solid waste; and she seems to be feeling ALOT better now. She's on "keep kitty regular" meds now in addition to her others. Fingers crossed!!! |
| I'm so sorry for your kitty and you. I lost our Sassy a year ago.... we had her for 14 years and it was kidney failure for her..... I no longer will do anything extraordinary just love em and hug em.
Wendy can tell you i love my Peepers to death and she loves her momma too. Bedtime is an adventure here with the cat....... she races me up the stairs every night and curls up in the crook of my arm to sleep.... Anyone else have a cat that has night terrors? Well, it was a very long night here. It started off with Peepers watching TV. 'CATS 101" was on animal planet when I went to bed. I have never seen an animal more into a tv show......... she 'chuddered' and she 'growled' and she even 'shook' when they showed a kitty being put into the operating room to be neutered and the sound of the clippers came on.... I was enthralled watching HER watch the TV show........... 
This show MUST have triggered some memories in her. It was over about 2 am........ and at about 330 to 400 am......... she had one hell of a nightmare/night terror. UP she came with a ROWLLLLLLLLL and fizzed out from a dead sleep...... woke me right up. 
I was afraid to touch her for a minute or so until she kind of woke up and came out of it. I didn't want to be bit. And it took me a while to get her back to being calmed down and back to sleep...... Always wonder whats going on in their minds. |
| Yes my Rowdy has night terrors.
Once he had such a bad dream he went crazy scratching and attacking whatever it was he dreamt about. Problem is he sleeps with me too so I got all scratched.
He woke me up from a deep sleep, so neither of us knew what was going on for a minute. He got back to sleep faster than I did though. |
| sounds like my night last night.
I won't let her watch TV anymore late at night. |
| wow. Bibbers loves to watch the Weather Channel. I swear I'm not making this up. But only forecasts. If programming is on, she's off the couch and out of the room. I think she likes the sound of the peoples voices.
My other two cats don't really watch tv. |
Quote: I won't let her watch TV anymore late at night.
I havent got a TV so it wasnt that. He was probably dreaming about a big, hairy, monster called Tiggy chasing him and chewing on him.
Come to think of it, they may have only started since Tiggy got big enough to squash him. |
| Just thinking of you and Bibbers.....
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| Poor old puss seems to be going through the wars.
Here's hoping there'll be a steady recovery now on. |
| Its literally a month later, with what feels like little improvement. She's not dying, and she stopped losing weight. And her liver and kidney functions have improved; or so the blood tests supposedly say. But I'm feeding Bibbers through a tube still; with limited success. Some days I get all the way through feeding her, often an hour long activity, only for her to puke it all up and have to start over.
I'm so tired, and so emotionally drained. And the 3-5 hours a day I spend caring for Bibbers had to come from somewhere, so Tonks and Luna are matted messes because I've run out of time in the day to groom them. I have not had a happy holiday season. Our house hunting woes, and Bibbers' health issues, and my not grooming my girls... feels like I've been neglecting them. I haven't had time for walks either, and their training is suffering. Tuesday they go to the groomers, to see if their coats can be saved. I so don't want to have to shave them. I might have to get them professionally groomed weekly for a while, at least until Bibbers is needing less care. I'm sure that will be ridiculously expensive, on top of my cat's vet bills.
Man I'm feeling blue. |
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I hope this works out Allison. Hugs to you all. |
| I'm so sorry........... I wish i could offer some good words of encouragement....... I know you love Bibbers, but i think i want to have you ask yourself, and answer yourself honestly: are you doing this for you or her? Will she ever get better? and if you were to stop would she have a good quality of life?
God Bless you and her........ Ali |
Ali wrote: I'm so sorry........... I wish i could offer some good words of encouragement....... I know you love Bibbers, but i think i want to have you ask yourself, and answer yourself honestly: are you doing this for you or her? Will she ever get better? and if you were to stop would she have a good quality of life?
God Bless you and her........ Ali I asked the vet that very thing on my last visit, right before Christmas. I asked; "am I extending her life, past a point that is natural?" He said that Bibbers isn't a candidate for euthanizing, as her condition isn't a fatal one. He assured me that she's just responding to treatment alot more slowly than they had expected, but they still think she'll be making a full recovery. I guess I'm just so worn out and tired that I get blue about the situation, even though that news should be making me feel alot better. I'm with you; I won't put my pet through an extension on their life if that life is not of a decent quality, or if that extension is for purely selfish reasons. |
| I'm so sorry you and Bidders have to go through this. You must be totally drained. My heart is with you. |
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I know it can be draining.....
Thinking of you and Bibbers! |
| So sorry to hear things arent going well.
Hope things start to look up real soon. I hope you can keep the girl's coats as they are, they're so pretty. But you have to be practical too, and a sick pet takes up lots of time. |
| When we got Zoey 2.5 years ago, I found a couple of websites with good cat information. It had been 30 years between cats and I had a lot to learn.
Cats can survive HL, but it can be a slow process. So many of the people on the sites have been there - and it took months. The amount of time you quoted for the tube feedings is excessive, IMO, unless you are doing 10 feedings a day. For the last 6 years, I have done daily tube feedings on kids. Five minutes to prep, 15-20 minutes for the feeding and 5 minutes to clean up. And I am very slow at giving the feeding. It's much easier than force feeding. I'm sorry you are going through this. It is so hard to see the ones we love go through this. |
Mom of 3 wrote: The amount of time you quoted for the tube feedings is excessive, IMO, unless you are doing 10 feedings a day. For the last 6 years, I have done daily tube feedings on kids. Five minutes to prep, 15-20 minutes for the feeding and 5 minutes to clean up. And I am very slow at giving the feeding. It's much easier than force feeding. I'm sorry you are going through this. It is so hard to see the ones we love go through this. I know it should take 15 - 30 minutes, tops. But Bibbers begins to gag, so I slow it down. Nothing is worse than getting her feeding done, and having her vomit it all back up again. So the minute she starts to gag, or her stomach cramps (her side will convulse) I stop the feeding and give her 10 - 20 minutes to process what she has, before starting again. So it can really drag on. At first we were doing 4 feedings a day. With excessive vomiting, we slowed it down to 8. Got it back to 4 and now I'm trying for 3. I'm not getting enough sleep, and I REALLY need to be at 3 feedings, at 8 hour intervals. 8 hours of sleep sounds so divine. I actually fell asleep at a party Christmas Eve. My friend has a chair that she swears is uncomfortable; but felt like a pile of pillows to me. When her dog hopped up and curled next to me, I was out within minutes. |
| Three is probably not realistic, based on how we handle it for humans.
If you give it too fast, or too much, it can cause dumping - the stomach contents gets dumped into the intestine before enough digestion has taken place, which can cause pain and diarrhea. Leakage around the tube is a sign of too much being given at once. What volume are you giving? I know most tube feedings for cats are 10-15 ml at a time. Did they show you how to check the amount of food in the stomach? Let gravity backflow the stomach contents into the feeding syringe, make a note of it and return the contents back to the stomach (contains digestive enzymes that are good and need to be there). While you can't expect to get all of the contents out to measure, you can figure that you got the majority of it. If there is a large amount of food in there, digestion is slow and you may need to reduce the amount of that feeding. That could also account for the vomiting - overfilling the stomach. If there is a small amount of food in the stomach, you may be able to move the feedings closer together. The kids that I have tube fed are getting a feeding every 3-4 hours. The amounts vary with their size and the schedule. I hope this helps. You may be able to do more successful feedings during the day and get to sleep more. |
| This is just a thought~~Could Bibbers stay at the vet a day or two so they can observe how she is/is not tolerating her tube feedings.
|
| Aw, sorry to hear about all of Bibbers troubles. I love her pictures - she's such a good looking girl, she looks like she has personality plus. The tube feedings don't sound fun at all - hang in there.
Like Mom of 3, I'm very familiar with tube feedings in kids. But I have no clue about kitties though. Bibbers has a feeding tube in her neck? And the tube goes directly to her stomach, is that right? That seems strange to me - again, I just don't know how it works with cats. For what it's worth, if one of the little kids I work with throws up after a feed the very first thing we look at is their bowel records. Constipation is the number one culprit. I suspect the same might be true for cats. Bibbers is on "keep kitty regular" meds - are they working? Very important. It's possible that her stomach isn't emptying between feeds - usually lack of gastric emptying is a result of constipation. Like Mom of 3 said, the amount of feed is important: vomitting can indicate too much feed or too fast. Are you letting gravity run the feed into the tube on it's own or are you syringing it in? Quality of the feed: Consistency? (Is it a thick liquid?) Temperature? (room temperature = ideal. Cold feed isn't tolerated well at all.) Bibbers might not be tolerating the type of feed too. Can you try a different type? Positioning: it's very important for little kids to be sitting up or lying as upright as possible during a feed - gravity helps keep the food down and also promotes gastric emptying at the same time. I have no idea if that would work for cats though. Maybe prop her up a bit with some pillows? Is that at all reasonable? And if you're holding her, avoid pressing on her tummy. Good luck to you. And scritches under the chin for beautiful Bibbers. |
| hey all;
sorry I've been so quiet lately. Bibbers health, our difficulties buying our first home, and work have been keeping me busy. BUT! I wanted to report a wonderful breakthrough. We visited the vet on Thursday, and I insisted on an anti-depressant with appetite stimulating side effects. We've ruled out all physical problems, and I'm convinced that Bibbers is stressed/anxious/depressed about the dogs. So while my vet seemed reluctant, I was of a "we've tried everything else; how can it hurt" frame of mind. And it worked. Within 2 hours of giving Bibbers her meds through her feeding tube, Bibbers was eating on her own for the first time in 2 months. That was on Thursday night. She hasn't stopped eating since then, and if her bowl is empty, she comes to tell me!!!!!
I talk to the vet again tomorrow, but he said if she ate through the weekend, the feeding tube could come out! I feel really hopeful, and feel like we may finally be moving beyond this crisis!!!  |
| That is great news!!!
I am glad to hear that Bibbers is bouncing back. I hope this is a continuing trend. |
Oh that is good news!!!!  |
| That's great news. Lucky you're so in tune with your pets that you were able to recognise that there was a stress component.
Go Bibbers |
| Way to go Allison and Bibbers! |
| I'm so ecstatic! I had asking the vet before to consider anti-depressants, and they'd sort of shied away from the idea. So I'm glad we finally tried it! Of course, the meds having and appetite stimulant side effect doesn't hurt one bit either! |
| Well; I want to thank everyone for their hugs and support! Bibbers had her feeding tube removed on Friday, and is finally expected to make her full recovery! She's off her meds and her bandage even came off this morning! She goes back for a full round of blood work in 3 months, but other than that, the Fabulous Bibbers is back to business as usual!!!
Bibbers with her feeding tube removed, and her bandage on Friday. The nice folks at the vets cut a flower for her bandage, our of more bandage material! 
In this one you can see her shaved leg; where they have been doing bloodwork since Thanksgiving when this all started:  |
Yay!!! That's fantastic!!  |
| Hug her for me! That is wonderful news! |
| Yay Bibbers!!
that is great news. |
| Good news! |
| Just a bit of an update; Bibbers has put a healthy amount of weight back one, and is looking wonderful. Even the vet was surprised at how great she was doing.... until we got her recent blood work back. Bibbers is officially a victim of "Chronic Renal Failure"; her kidneys are failing her and she's on her way to the bridge. The doctor said it could be as much as 3 years when he got the first blood work back saying that her recovery was so great that she obviously is in good shape to contend with this. But subsequent tests have made him think that its likely to be a whole lot sooner. She looks and acts so healthy. We're likely to have to start sub-cutaneous fluids soon; her hydration is bad even though she drinks plenty of water.
She's so damned cute, and after 18 months is FINALLY beginning to show signs of being okay with the dogs. She's my only cat to do so of the three. Today she stole three dog toys and hid them in her bed; one of them was a stuffie that was easily half her size.  She's so damned cute; so frickin lovable. But I guess all good things have their time, right? I haven't had to deal with the passing of a pet in over 30 years. Oh who am I kidding, Bibbers isn't even gone and I'm hardly dealing well with it now.
Any way; thats my update. Who knows, maybe in another 7 months I'll post to say that Bibbers is still refusing to die. Thats my stubborn girl! |
| Alison, so sad to read your update, after all you and Bibbers went through to get her healthy again its such a blow.
I always have a spoilt cat about the place too and its hard to know that the time is coming when you have to say goodbye. Hoping you get as many healthy months as possible with the fantastic Bibbers.  |
| Thanks Mim; we beat the Hepatic Lipidosis, so I think we were very lucky to get this far. She's happier than she's been in ages, and appears healthy. She has a great appetite and even stands up to the dogs once in a while. I'm sad for me, but not for her. She has no idea she's sick, and acts like she's got all the time in the world. I'll be paying close attention, and when Bibbers starts to feel unwell; when she has more bad days than good ones, I'll be there to help her find her way to that Bridge.
I re-read all the posts here and can't thank everyone enough for listening to me unload about this. Its very upsetting and stressful for me. But knowing I have friends online that understand helps alot. Thank you everyone. |
| Alison, I'm sorry for the news. But sounds like Bidders is a stubborn ol' gal. Enjoy every minute with her. |
| I'm so sorry Alison But it sounds like you're both going to enjoy every moment together and I'm so glad she seems happy and comfortable. |
| Allison- I don't know how I missed this post in the past--just wanted to say thoughts are with you! We went through the exact same thing with our PJ a year ago. We were not as fortunate as he never regained any of his weight and had more bad days than good days after the diagnosis. We finally had to make the hard decision -- so I know how it is when you know and they don't!
Still miss my guy--he RULED and was a character!  |
| PJ and Bibbers sound like they'd have fun together. I'm not letting Bibbers go if I can help it, but when the time comes, I'll tell her to look for PJ at the Bridge. I bet the two of them could get up to some crazy antics... |
| You bet they probably could!
Give Bibbers a HUG from me! |
| to you and Bibbers.
Getting bad news from the vet is never good. I hope you and Bibbers can have many more good days and make more good memories. |
| www.felinecrf.org
This one is pretty highly thought of by people on a couple of cat sites I visit. These people have lots of experience with CRF in their cats and may be able to give you some good advice. Wet food only, some even mix in some extra water. I don' know brands to suggest. The cat sites I visit were able to help me find good information (watch those sources) on dealing with my son's cat when she was diagnosed borderline diabetic. Her blood sugar continues to be within a norma range and has put on a couple that she needed to gain. |
| I looked at that site when my siamese was sick, unfortunately he had cancer in his kidneys not renal failure.
But it did seem to be a great site with lots of good info. I had forgotten about it! Thanks for posting it. |
| Well its 2 years since Bibbers originally went to the Cat ER, and 18 months since her Renal Failure diagnosis. She's been doing GREAT, until 3 nights ago. We'd been managing her Renal failure with just prescription food, and she was what the vet called "miraculous" and "very strong". I don't know what set her off, but tonight she's back in the veterinary hospital, and they want to keep her for a couple of days. I won't know more until tomorrow, but they think its a renal episode. I'm trying to prepare myself for the worst, which seems a little silly as she's been "dying" for 2 years; most of which she's been living just fine. Still, please spare a warm thought for my sick kittie... |
| Thinking of you and Bibbers. Hope she picks up at the vets. |
| Allison, I've got my fingers crossed for you and Bibbers. |
| Thinking of you and Bibbers here. |
Come on Bibbers!!!!  I hope she bounces back again. |
| Thanks all. Visiting hour was tonight from 7 -9pm. Roads here have all iced over, so rather than risk the highways I opted to stay home. Plus, the vet had said she wouldn't be able to do traditional visiting; rather than give us a room where I could sit with her, they wanted to keep her on her fluids, so I could pet her while she was in her... well whatever it is they live in while at the vet's. I feel badly though, I wanted to see her, comfort her, and maybe bring her a toy from home. Tomorrow I'll either get news she can come home, or I can go visit at either 3-5 of again 7-9. I think its probably very good news that I haven't gotten a phone call saying she's passed; I thikn it means she'll recover Its just a question now of how much she'll recover. OES related story: my three cats and Tonks and Luna have never become friends. Bibbers is the one cat that seems unconcerned about the dogs; she will walk by them, while they follow her. She mostly tries to ignore them. With her being sick, the last couple of days I could see a noticable difference in her. I tried to get a vet appointment, and she couldn't see her doctor until today. Last night, I was in my office working, and Tonks was making the strangest noises from out in the hallway. Very Chewbacca-like, but in a soft, low volume. Concerned, I went out into the hallway. Bibbers had come out of the bedroom,and halfway down the hall had to sit to rest (like I said, she was really not doing well). Tonks was lying down next to her, and the noises she was making was AT the cat. Like she was talking to her. It was so touching. I went and picked Bibbers up, carried her back into the bedroom and put her on the bed, in some blankets I'd put there for her with a hot water bottle. Tonks got on the bed to, and stayed with Bibbers while I went back to work. |
| Allison, Hope Bibbers is doing better, and that she gets to come home tomorrow. Lisa Frankie and Mattie |
| Allison-wishing Bibbers the very best and hope she recovers from this episode. I have been through so much with my kitties the last few years and know how heartbreaking it is when they are sick. Special thoughts for all of you and keep us updated. |
| I saw you guys were getting the ice this time. It's crappy anytime, but even worse that you couldn't go visiting. We still have ice here from this past Friday. All the regular 2 lane roads are pure ice, as it's way too cold to let ice or chemicals help melt. Ice is too dangerous - best to stay home. |
| Dawn; I figured the same. Not worth trying to get over there in this weather. It should be cleared up tomorrow. I'm on hold on the phone with the vet now; just checking to see how she's doing. Then I may call it a night; its been an exhausting day. |
| I hope you got good news and thought that was so sweet how Tonks was trying to comfort Bibbers. |
| This morning showed a little improvement, but not enough for her to come home. It seems that even though she's been on hydrating fluids for over 24 hours, she hasn't urinated. They fear if she doesn't soon, they'll have to stop the fluids; something they feel will be harmful if they do. They have decided that the culprit was an infection; likely in her kidneys, which triggered the Renal episode. So its possible if she'll pee, if they can get her to take food, if they antibiotics help, that she'll recover. But thats more "if's" than the doctor is comfortable with. |
| My heart goes out to you I sure hope and pray that Bibbers recovers! I know how hard it is...I recently ( 2 weeks ago) lost my dear little kittie, Chili, to kidney disease. However, she was 18 and had lived a good, long, healthy life until the last few months. In the end she got down to just under 6 lbs and although she was always a small kittie, this was way too skinny, had stopped eating and I had to make the decision to let her cross the bridge. It sounds like you are doing everything you can for little Bibbers. Praying for a full recovery! |
| It seems Bibbers isn't going to make it. Her time has finally come. I'm going to the vet's in a couple of hours to do this terrible thing we all have to do eventually. Its my first time sending a pet to the bridge; it feels so horrible. Do you all second guess yourselves??? I keep thinking, but what if she WERE to recover? Am I acting to rashly? But then I think; send her now, before she is suffering badly. Don't wait for her to degenerate and pass with her final hours being ones of pain and sickness. Do it now, while she's feeling "ok", but still not going to recover. I have to trust my vet, trust that he knows she really won't recover. Last time I was sure she was dying, and the vet kept telling me he thought it was premature to think that. And it took a long time, but he was right and she recovered. That he now thinks she won't... I have to trust this guy. I think he knows what he's talking about. I HATE THIS I HATE THIS I HATE THIS!!!!!! Its enough to make you not want to have pets at all, so that you need never go through this again. |
| Yes, the emotional side of you will have doubts...but the rational side will remind you that it's the caring and loving thing to do. If you've had to watch humans suffer and linger, because there is no other option, you come to KNOW it's a better option. But when I had Macy PTS, I still had a moment where I wanted to scream "suck it back out!" I guess it's just human nature. Hugs to you and Bibbers.... ...and yes, time will soothe the memories and it will get better. Time allows all the good memories to come back, and makes the last painful ones fade into place. |
| Its the hardest decision and the hardest part of sharing you life with a pet. As you said its enough to make you not want to have pets - almost. I'm sorry. |
| Oh Allison, yes you will have doubts and second guessing. I think that is the exact reason that you shouldn't -- it means that you have given Bibbers every possible chance and you are making a huge sacrifice to do what is right for Bibbers. You are the only one who could make the best decision. I'm so sorry you're going through all of this. |
| Allison, I am so sorry you are going through this! Big hugs to you and Adam (Tonks and Luna). You will make the right decision, just trust your heart. |
| Oh, Allison - I'm so sorry you're going thru this terrible time. It really is the hardest decision to make, and yes, you will absolutely second guess yourself. But in your heart, you will know it is the kindest thing to do for Bibbers, before she is in constant pain and suffering. Thoughts and hugs to you and Adam. |
| I am so sorry u have to go through this. to Bibbers, u and Adam. |
| When I got there, I was okay with it. In the car, I had hoped and prayed for a sign, to help me know this was the right thing. Once we got on the highway, we rode almost the entire way there behind a hearse. So, I had my sign. She didn't look all that bad when I got there, but I knew it was the right time. They wanted me to take "all the time I needed" and I told them it wasn't necessary. We had a good cuddle, and then took care of what needed doing. As we drove away, I kid you not, I looked back and there was a partial rainbow. I adore that cat beyond reckoning, and I know I always will. But I couldn't have gotten any more clear messages that this was the right thing to do. If you believe in that sort of thing. |
| I believe, such a terrible time and I've done it several times. The last was the worst and I've second guessed myself ever since but I do know it was for the best. |
| Allison, I'm so sorry. Most of us have been there, in the past eighteen years I've had to put down three cats and two dogs. It never gets easy. |
| A lovely sign that Bibbers is happy over the rainbow bridge. It's just you with the pain now. Thinking of you. |
| Hugs to you Allison. It's a very difficult thing to have to do. I do believe in those signs. They really do make you feel better when you experience something like that. Lisa Frankie and Mattie |
| Do you know, I forgot all about the rainbow bridge. Now its extra weird. |
| I so sorry, Allison. |
| Sorry for your terrible loss, Allison. to you and Adam. |
| Thanks Nita; thanks to everyone here for their thoughtfulness and kind words. Bibbers is survived by her littermate, her sister Felicia (yes, I have a thing for adopting sisters, apparently) and a cat that adopted us a few years later, Zatanna. Z (as we call her) doesn't seem too stressed. She's hiding a bit more than normal, and while all three cats used to sleep in bed with me, she hasn't done so since Bibbers went into the hospital. Bibbers' sister Feli won't get out of the bed. I left her the sweater I wore that day;I had held her sister and thought the smell might be comforting. I didn't expect her to rub her face in it, and sleep on it ever since. Do I establish a "tough love" protocol and take it away and have it washed? Do I let her have time to see if she gets over it? We hired house cleaners for the first time ever, and they actually came the day I had to put Bibbers to sleep. When i got home, all signs of her were gone. Her little messes, the cat hair where she's lay; all gone. She used to pee next to the cat box; I had begun putting down cookie trays with paper towels on them for her. They were cleaned up, and the trays can now be thrown away. Its so disturbing, all signs that she was ever here are gone. The night before she was hospitalized, she peed in the bed. So I had to wash all the bedding and replace it. None of that smells like her to her sisters anymore. The cat bed she slept in and her toys she played with; I took with me to the hospital for her final moments. I wanted her to be comfortable and happy, to have things that smelled like home and were familiar to her. But I didn't expect how sad those things would make me afterward. I had to ask Adam to carry it all downstairs to the basement for me; I can't handle it, can't look at it. Do I bring it up for Felicia? Or will she smell the death? Is it the right or wrong thing to do? Should I just wash it, or should I bury her with it when I put her in the garden out back later this week? As I labor through these thoughts, I find myself trying to tackle completely unfamiliar territory. Any thoguhts, feedback, or personal experiences you guys could share would be a great help, and a comfort to me. |
| I'm so sorry for your loss |
| Oh Allison I know how hard this is. My recent experience when we lost Tucker was that the other kitties do grieve. Fletcher slept on Tucker's blanket for about a week, and would look for him and 'talk' to me like he wanted me to help him find him. Slowly he is returning to his normal self, I think. But I know he still looks for him. I left Tucker's bed in the Kitchen and Fletcher still sleeps on it rather than on his own. I would let her sister have the sweater until she lets you know that she is ready to let it go. We buried Tucker's favorite toys with him (just to make me feel better) and Fletcher hasn't seemed to miss them. Fletcher and Tucker were very close and they too slept with us. Fletcher has only slept with me one night since Tucker died and he did not stay in the bed all night that night. I am hoping that he will resume that routine as I miss their warm bodies in my bed. I know how sad you feel when you look at her things-- it is still hard here and not a day goes by that I don't miss him terribly. We did get a new kitten and Fletch has finally warmed up to him but it took awhile. I found them sleeping together in the bedroom last week and it made me smile. We found Tucker upstairs on the back of a chair and I don't think that Fletcher smelled the death on the chair. He continues to go up there and sleep so he isn't avoiding the place so I don't think you need to worry about that with the things you took to the vet. She might actually feel better if she sees and can sniff those things. Even though it is hard for you to look at them, it might help for the other kitties to have them around. It is so heartbreaking to lose them--we went through exactly what you just went through with our PJ and that is why we have Fetcher and got Tucker at the same time. It took two to fill the hole in my heart that PJ left. He was 14 and his kidney's failed and I had to make the same decision after a couple of rebounds. The vet finally said he wasn't going to recover. It is so tough. You Adam the kitties and Tonks and Luna are in my thoughts and prayers! Take care--and Cry when you feel like it--it does make you feel better! |
| I would let Felicia keep the sweeter for a while if you can spare it. I read a book by a dog lady (she had spent years observing her own pack of dogs) a few years ago and she thought that dogs could smell death. She brought the collar and lead home from the vets to her pack for them to smell if she had to euthanase as she believed it helped the pack. To be honest I don't think we know yet. So I would trust your instincts like you did with letting Bibbers go. You got some lovely signs after all. If having Bibber's things about is too hard then don't. I lost my first siamese 3 years ago, he was my baby and it was sooo hard. I had to put all his things away as they broke my heart. But time has helped and though I still really miss him I can look at some of his things again without tears....usually. Thinking of you heaps, it is so hard. |
| Oh, Allison, I feel for you. It's such a hard decision to make and even though you know in your head that you did the kindest thing for Bibbers it hurts, hurts, hurts. I made that decision for my 18 yr old Chili kittie 2 weeks ago. Chili pretty much lived on my kitchen counter because she hated the dogs and they loved to harrass her. Even today when I get up in the morning I look for her on the counter and it looks so empty without her. Just know that your love for her helped her to escape any more suffering. As far as the other kitties go....I would let them be near Bibber's things for a little while. A few years ago I had to let my JoJo girl, OES, cross the bridge. My Bella had known JoJo all her life and they were so close. When it came time, my vet actually advised me to bring Bella with me to the vet when I had to take JoJo in. She, the vet, said that animals understand and accept death when they know what is happening. As strange as it seemed, I took her advise and it seemed to help Bella accept her loss. I do believe animals can smell death and accept it as part of nature, as opposed to them just all of a sudden going missing. I believe animals do grieve but they also accept things as humans can't. My thoughts and prayers are with you. |
| I am so sorry for your loss Allison, I went through this with the cat I grew up with ( I got her in second grade and she died when I was 21). Time does help to heal so the loss doesn't feel so raw, but you will always hold a special place in your heart for Bibbers. :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :cry: :cry: :cry: |
| Just back from the vet. Bibbers' littermate sister, Felicia, is not doing well. I took her in for something harmless; some irritation in her ears, and it seems she has fluid building up in her chest cavity, around her heart and lungs. Later tonight they will do an ultra sound; this way they can see it better, and have more confidence inserting a needle and getting a sampled of the fluid. It could be cancer, or lymphatic fluid. I'm a complete wreck. I'm still a crying mess over the loss of her sister Bibbers, and I didn't see this coming. I had Feli in 2 weeks ago, and they decided her thyroid was over active and she needed meds for it. Thats it. The meds gave her skin an irritation, which is why I was back. I was expecting to have to give her medicine orally, not have to deal with the emotional weight of a possible cancer diagnosis. Everyone please say a prayer for Felicia. She's 18, and her sister has just recently gone on ahead of her to the Bridge: I'm not so selfish to pray for her to live if its simply not meant to be. Please pray with me that whatever the diagnosis, that she will not be in any pain or suffering. |
| Wow, Allison, that is sad. I hope things aren't worse case scenario. Big hugs and hoping Felicia will not be diagnosed with anything really bad. |
| She's 18. If I could have my heart's desire, she'd recover, meet Mirth our new kitty and not hate her, and have a couple more years to be an old lady cat, sitting on her pillow in the sun on our deck. But I know its asking for a lot. I have to wonder if maybe the egg carton that she and her sister came in... maybe we're just at its expiration date. |
| $%#@. I just looked back; Bibbers died a month ago today. |
| I'm so sorry. I lost two of my geriatric cats and my oldest dog last year. It was very, very difficult, and I truly feel your pain. I wonder if she is grieving for her sister. Sometimes it's hard to tell if they even realize one of the family is gone. Hoping for the best outcome for you all... |
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