English Grammar Lesson
-ed.] It's "cancelled". Anyone who uses "canceled" is 'misguided'. Before the reformation in England (Europe, particularly Italy & Germany, of course played a crucial part in the reformation, though the English reformation must be separated from the European reformation so as to avoid confusion) in the 1530's, very very few people in England (or anywhere else for that matter) could read or write (only the elite i.e. the Monarchy and Church officials). The only material available for those who could read was religious. As very few could read, there was no "official" written English language, and so there was no correct way of spelling things. That is why you'll find that in one text, the same word may be spelt in several different ways. As the reformation kicked in, protestants started encouraging people to learn to read (so they could read the bible, though of course, this actually led to people reading & writing non-religious materials, beginning to question both religious and secular authority, very much against what the protestants had intended). America was founded by protestants and they wanted to "better" the English language so improvements were made by many writers. You have to remember that at this time, the written English language in both England and America was still unofficial. This of course explains a lot of contradictions in American English (in England, writing was still more 'regulated'). So later on, when of course it came to forming an official written English language (in both England and America), the Americans had formed a very different one to that of the English. I am English (or British if you prefer) and of course I spell things the English way. I really do hate the fact that Americans speak a really obscure and contradictory version of the English language, their pronunciations sounding ridiculous. I must admit I find it rather amusing when many Americans try to pronounce the word "herbs" - most amusing  , although I appreciate the history behind the language and understand how it came to exist. |
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Professor Michael Wooster wrote: It's "cancelled". Anyone who uses "canceled" is 'misguided'.
Before the reformation in England (Europe, particularly Italy & Germany, of course played a crucial part in the reformation, though the English reformation must be separated from the European reformation so as to avoid confusion) in the 1530's, very very few people in England (or anywhere else for that matter) could read or write (only the elite i.e. the Monarchy and Church officials). The only material available for those who could read was religious. As very few could read, there was no "official" written English language, and so there was no correct way of spelling things. That is why you'll find that in one text, the same word may be spelt in several different ways. As the reformation kicked in, protestants started encouraging people to learn to read (so they could read the bible, though of course, this actually led to people reading & writing non-religious materials, beginning to question both religious and secular authority, very much against what the protestants had intended). America was founded by protestants and they wanted to "better" the English language so improvements were made by many writers. You have to remember that at this time, the written English language in both England and America was still unofficial. This of course explains a lot of contradictions in American English (in England, writing was still more 'regulated'). So later on, when of course it came to forming an official written English language (in both England and America), the Americans had formed a very different one to that of the English. I am English (or British if you prefer) and of course I spell things the English way. I really do hate the fact that Americans speak a really obscure and contradictory version of the English language, their pronunciations sounding ridiculous. I must admit I find it rather amusing when many Americans try to pronounce the word "herbs" - most amusing , although I appreciate the history behind the language and understand how it came to exist.Nice history lesson, but you basically said it yourself--because of various historical events, spellings of words changed depending on where someone lived, therefore, that's why Americans (where this website is based  ) spell it canceled (correctly) and why Brits spell it cancelled (correct for them). |
barney1 wrote: Professor Michael Wooster wrote: It's "cancelled". Anyone who uses "canceled" is 'misguided'. Before the reformation in England (Europe, particularly Italy & Germany, of course played a crucial part in the reformation, though the English reformation must be separated from the European reformation so as to avoid confusion) in the 1530's, very very few people in England (or anywhere else for that matter) could read or write (only the elite i.e. the Monarchy and Church officials). The only material available for those who could read was religious. As very few could read, there was no "official" written English language, and so there was no correct way of spelling things. That is why you'll find that in one text, the same word may be spelt in several different ways. As the reformation kicked in, protestants started encouraging people to learn to read (so they could read the bible, though of course, this actually led to people reading & writing non-religious materials, beginning to question both religious and secular authority, very much against what the protestants had intended). America was founded by protestants and they wanted to "better" the English language so improvements were made by many writers. You have to remember that at this time, the written English language in both England and America was still unofficial. This of course explains a lot of contradictions in American English (in England, writing was still more 'regulated'). So later on, when of course it came to forming an official written English language (in both England and America), the Americans had formed a very different one to that of the English. I am English (or British if you prefer) and of course I spell things the English way. I really do hate the fact that Americans speak a really obscure and contradictory version of the English language, their pronunciations sounding ridiculous. I must admit I find it rather amusing when many Americans try to pronounce the word "herbs" - most amusing , although I appreciate the history behind the language and understand how it came to exist.Nice history lesson, but you basically said it yourself--because of various historical events, spellings of words changed depending on where someone lived, therefore, that's why Americans (where this website is based ) spell it canceled (correctly) and why Brits spell it cancelled (correct for them).You say that "cancelled" is correct for the British, but American English is somehow more correct? I would remind you that it was the English who invented the English language. One would be exceptionally misguided to presume that the Americans would know the English language better than that of its founders. As non-religious text started appearing, the American English language was formed from many different writers and the personal opinions of those writing. Remember that there were many ways of spelling one word? This is very much what American writers did, and so the American English language became confusing & contradictory. One must also remind oneself that America was founded by many many people for whom English was not their first language. This of course led to further problems, particularly that of changes in vowels from those unable to comprehend more difficult vowel usage. Thus many words in the American English language are in fact pronounced incorrectly (we know this from grammatical interest text of the time). However, in England, as non-religious text started appearing, it became far more regulated and so a very clear, considerably less contradictory written English language was formed. |
Professor Michael Wooster wrote: You say that "cancelled" is correct for the British, but American English is somehow more correct?
I'm not saying American English is more correct than British English. They are different. It's like how in British English 'colour' has a 'u' while in America it doesn't. It doesn't make either version more or less correct (unless you are using it the other country!). It just gets confusing because they are both named "English" and share many many traits, but there are true differences between the Queen's English and American English. Yes, America has had many cultures, languages, etc. influence it, but at a certain point, certain spellings were agreed upon and entered into dictionaries as the 'correct' way to spell things (again, in America, not universally). Some punctuation rules are different in America too. In British English, the comma goes outside a quote--Bob said to say 'hello'. In American English the period would go inside the quotation mark. |
Professor Michael Wooster wrote: I would remind you that it was the English who invented the English language. One would be exceptionally misguided to presume that the Americans would know the English language better than that of its founders.
How do the British spell pompous? 
Language evolves. It might be cancelled to you, but my spellcheck says it's canceled. BTW, did you see that you're posting on an Old ENGLISH sheepdog forum? Kind of a cute little cowinkydinky, eh? |
rdf wrote: Professor Michael Wooster wrote: I would remind you that it was the English who invented the English language. One would be exceptionally misguided to presume that the Americans would know the English language better than that of its founders. How do the British spell pompous? Language evolves. It might be cancelled to you, but my spellcheck says it's canceled. BTW, did you see that you're posting on an Old ENGLISH sheepdog forum? Kind of a cute little cowinkydinky, eh? How very interesting. I do so hope your sheepdogs don't spell like you American folk! First you're stealing our language, next thing you're stealing our sheepdogs! Shame on you!  |
| Paws for thought!!!!!!!! |
| LisaOES,what about Doing the Harry?(as in doing the bolt/Harold Holt).
I remember when I first started watching Coronation Street as a kid,someone said "I shall go around to her house and knock her up" which apparently in England ,means,I shall go to her house and knock on her door and wake her up,in Australia if you go knock someone up,you get them pregnant.I guess it depends on what method you use to wake her up. |
| I remember my father introducing the new neighbour to my mum,an Englishman who had just come to Australia,Dad said "This is Jack,he's the Pommie Bastard who bought the house next door" poor Jack hurriedly explained he was in fact,the product of a securely married couple.I guess it takes a while for newcomers to realise Bastard isnt even an insult in Australia.
And he was always trying to figure out a way to insult my dad back. Nowdays I would say to him"Ask him 'what part of New Zealand do you come from?'" |
Professor Michael Wooster wrote: I would remind you that it was the English who invented the English language. One would be exceptionally misguided to presume that the Americans would know the English language better than that of its founders.
I'm sure if you blokes won the Revolutionary War, we would have extra consonants & vowels galore, and would actually enunciate them properly!
You know us Yanks, always looking for the lazy way out! |
| I wonder if this topic ought to be lockked?
LOL I slay me! |
| That was good, Ron! |
| Lock it only after you lock the "pregnant after my tubes tied" thread! |
Paula O. wrote: Lock it only after you lock the "pregnant after my tubes tied" thread!
Aye! |
| is it only me who supects Professor Mike is a bored 15 year old? |
kerry wrote: is it only me who supects Professor Mike is a bored 15 year old?
First of all, the beginning of a sentence starts with a capital letter (e.g. "Is it only...", not "is it only..."). Additionally, "supects" is not a word. Second of all, I have very rarely been addressed as "Mike". My name is Michael! Nor am I 15 (although maybe I wish I was once again)! To be particularly honest, I dislike the American language and discovered this topic on Google. Though you were somewhat correct. I certainly find myself rather bored sometimes, or at least as bored as any other retired Professor of history! |
Professor Michael Wooster wrote: kerry wrote: is it only me who supects Professor Mike is a bored 15 year old? First of all, the beginning of a sentence starts with a capital letter (e.g. "Is it only...", not "is it only..."). Additionally, "supects" is not a word. Second of all, I have very rarely been addressed as "Mike". My name is Michael! Nor am I 15 (although maybe I wish I was once again)! To be particularly honest, I dislike the American language and discovered this topic on Google. Though you were somewhat correct. I certainly find myself rather bored sometimes, or at least as bored as any other retired Professor of history! This may seem a bit off topic...BUT, could it be that you dislike Americans, not how they speak or write? Do you have any American friends? As I recall, not all English people speak or write proper english and they have as many accents as Americans. Boredom is one thing, a discussion, yet another. Rudeness is unnecessary and vulgar no matter where you come from. |
Professor Michael Wooster wrote: kerry wrote: is it only me who supects Professor Mike is a bored 15 year old? First of all, the beginning of a sentence starts with a capital letter (e.g. "Is it only...", not "is it only..."). Additionally, "supects" is not a word. Second of all, I have very rarely been addressed as "Mike". My name is Michael! Nor am I 15 (although maybe I wish I was once again)! To be particularly honest, I dislike the American language and discovered this topic on Google. Though you were somewhat correct. I certainly find myself rather bored sometimes, or at least as bored as any other retired Professor of history! well obviously you missed my previous post about no longer using capital letters 
i guess being out of work could make someone cranky as well as being old and stodgy |
| I think an internet message board is probably the last place anyone should be looking for proper spelling and grammar, no matter what the language is. It has taken me years to get over the ticks and fits that I suffered from as I saw some of the horrid spellings of seemingly simple words! If they're typos, it's not a big deal, it's genuine bad spelling that makes me crazy.
For that reason, I can somewhat understand your position, Professor Michael. |
ButtersStotch wrote: I think an internet message board is probably the last place anyone should be looking for proper spelling and grammar, no matter what the language is. It has taken me years to get over the ticks and fits that I suffered from as I saw some of the horrid spellings of seemingly simple words! If they're typos, it's not a big deal, it's genuine bad spelling that makes me crazy.
For that reason, I can somewhat understand your position, Professor Michael. Indeed! Grammar and spelling are underrated by many. It's incredibly important to maintain perfect spelling and grammar, though some are just ignorant and seem to believe that spelling and grammar just don't matter. The fact is, in real life, bad spelling or grammar on a résumé for example, is a leading cause of being turned down job opportunities. When people use unforgivably bad spelling or grammar (e.g. "jack and jill couldn't find there keys" - the errors being "there" instead of "their" and no capital letters for both names), it's a disgrace to the English language. I can understand "typo's", but anything other than that is just irritating. The fact that some people don't take any time to ensure their spelling and grammar are correct, just shows how little they value the English language! Well, I suppose it's their loss anyway! Those with consistently bad spelling and grammar often lose out on jobs and various applications. The days of marking student's essays are still very much imprinted in my mind. I would hand back any essays with unacceptable spelling or grammar, informing the student that if they hadn't taken the time to ensure their essay was free from grammatical errors (getting it proof-read for example), then they obviously didn't think the essay was at all important! Anyway, that's why I'm so incredibly critical of misuse of the English language. It's ignorant and I cannot stand ignorance. After all, one's ignorance breeds that of another's (one's misuse of language causes others to make the same mistakes - spreading like a virus). "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." Martin Luther King, Jr. |
| Internet or not, poor spelling and grammar are just wrong. I learned grammar in the eighth grade and even though I'm past 49, I still remember. And there is no excuse for poor spelling. Dictionaries (online OR God forbid, print) are everywhere.
But anyway, we are totally off topic (surprise surprise ). I still think two els is correct. |
| Lol. Since we're being sticklers, it's "typos," not "typo's." No possession. |
ButtersStotch wrote: Lol. Since we're being sticklers, it's "typos," not "typo's." No possession.
Indeed, most certainly correct. Though I should remind you that "Lol" is not actually a real word! |
| Very true, but it's fair game in internet talk. I promise you, I'd never, ever write it! |
Professor Michael Wooster wrote: ButtersStotch wrote: Lol. Since we're being sticklers, it's "typos," not "typo's." No possession. Indeed, most certainly correct. Though I should remind you that "Lol" is not actually a real word! Ha ha ha--I wanted to point that out but didn't want to start anything more! Although I admit that even I don't know all the rules of grammar perfectly, and I make my living off of it (or rather, off of other people's lack of good grammar skills). But it seems like a little effort toward making something grammatically correct would be nice every once in a while. |
| There are a number of grammatical errors, syntactical errors or other anomalies in our guest's posts.
First of all, enumerating a mere pair of points with "First of all" and "Second of all" is clumsy at best. Closing that with a third point beginning with "Finally" might be appropriate. Second of all, using "Though" to start a sentence? Interesting. I might have chosen "Although." Though this is interesting, so I think I'll make all of it a topic of its own. |
| commas weren't properly placed either
fwiw |
| still going with my bored teenager theory
most well adjusted adults would have something better to do with their time than scour a dog forum for an audience for their ill presented grammar lesson (and yes i do use capitals and punctuation when i write for work etc. as a teenager e e cummings was my favorite poet  ) |
| im just plain lazy to post with caps....but when i type a bid, i do use correct spelling and grammar.....i figure you dont care.... |
| Crikeys and strewth I really don't care how people spell things as each country that speaks English is unique in there grammer and sayings. That's what makes them unique to there own country.
From a convict past in the 1800's sent from the UK for a new life in a new country with our own occerismn language Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi
Who gives "Two Hoots" we can all understand each other so as each country evolves in their own unique way so be it. Brittania does not rule the world anymore |
Joahaeyo wrote: commas weren't properly placed either
fwiw Actually, they are for British grammar... the commas go outside of quotes... |
Professor Michael Wooster wrote: kerry wrote: is it only me who supects Professor Mike is a bored 15 year old? First of all, the beginning of a sentence starts with a capital letter (e.g. "Is it only...", not "is it only..."). Additionally, "supects" is not a word. Second of all, I have very rarely been addressed as "Mike". My name is Michael! Nor am I 15 (although maybe I wish I was once again)! To be particularly honest, I dislike the American language and discovered this topic on Google. Though you were somewhat correct. I certainly find myself rather bored sometimes, or at least as bored as any other retired Professor of history!  ... as a professor of history , Certainly a man of your learned stature can find in his history books an enormous reason as to why you are "typing" in english rather than German! |
barney1 wrote: Joahaeyo wrote: commas weren't properly placed either fwiw Actually, they are for British grammar... the commas go outside of quotes... it's 2:44 in the morning, so I'm not going to go back and look at the exact places, but I was referring to missing or misuse of commas. ...at least according to grammar girl (favorite site in college!!!!!!!!!) |
| The mix of cultures here is part of what makes this forum so much fun.
It just wouldn't be the same without the likes of the traditional American recipes, sheepie's "Chook kicks", and general lifestyle differences which make us all giggle, even through the hard times. You will observe we are a community, and a bloody good'un at that. I couldn't care less about my spelling or grammar, as long as people understand what I'm saying. I couldn't care less about other's spelling and grammar, as long as I keep up with the gossip. Professor Wooster, I strongly suggest you keep well away from internet forums, mobile telephones, television and radio if grammatical errors upset you so much. |
Funny thing just to add to the mix even expressions can do a person in. LOL ........... When we first moved to the US my dad worked for the telephone company. One morning he knocked on a lady's door and she was still in bed. When she came to the door my dad said "oh sorry to have knocked you up" Imagine his embarrassment.  English Wake ......... American............ PREGGERS I know I know not much to do with the topic but just trying to lighten every one up. |
| OH MY, can we talk about math, science or history? Spelling has never been an attribute. If it wasn't for a friend that was a proof-reader for Doubleday, I'd have never made it through college. The papers were mine, the spelling and grammar were hers. THIS WAS BEFORE COMPUTERS AND SPELL CHECK |
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