Help me figure out if an OES is for me... please?
So I've done some research on the OES and I am very interested in the breed. I am very attracted to their sweet temperament and gentle disposition, and I love the fact that they arn't shedders. I was hoping that you guys could help me decide if it would be appropriate to bring an OES into my lifestyle, and if an OES sounds like a good match for me. I'm a full time illustrator and graphic designer, and my boyfriend (who I live with) is working on his philosophy phd. Because of my career and his student we are home a lot during the weekday. We have one dog, Oliver, who is a neutered Shih Tzu. He is 1.5 years old and the love of our life. Ollie is almost never home alone for more than 3 or 4 hours at a time, and we walk and exercise him daily. Oh, and we alternate between growing him out long and shaving him down- so we do have some experience with long hair that picks up everything.  Oliver thrives in the company of other dogs, which is another reason we are specifically looking at very dog friendly breeds.
We are in our 20's and live active lifestyles, hiking, camping, etc. My boyfriend is an avid jogger and would love a dog who could jog with him (Oliver get's a little too pooped for these longer adventures) and when he is out working late at night on campus, I would enjoy having a larger dog at home with me (though I'm not looking for any kind of guard dog- I just like the reassurance). The potential problems I see are as follows. We live in a yardless apartment. If we are adament about walking/jogging our OES daily, will this be enough to keep him happy? We also invest in lots of toys and are will of course do puppy training classes and refresher courses- but will an OES be unhappy if he cannot have access to a larger space during the day? Also, while we currently live in a coastal rural town with many places to access safe offlead play and exercise, we plan on moving to Chicago in a couple of years for him to finish his PhD. We will most likley still be living in an apartment at this point. I understand that renting with a dog (especially a large dog) can be an issue- but I'm more concerned as to whether or not it is fair to have a dog like this in the city environment? I've seen lots of people in the city with great danes and st. bernards (and he is from chicago so it's not entirely foreign) but I just do not want to put a dog in a position where he can not thrive. Other just random dog care stuff- we will spay/neuter this future dog and keep them up to date on shots. We are adament about feeding our dog high quality food (we currently feed Oliver Merricks' as Innova Evo was a little too rich for him) and when we travel we take our dog with us 99% of the time. We have no kids and don't want any other pets beyond a second dog. We arn't in a rush to get a second dog- maybe next fall? At the earliest, it would be another 6 months. I think that is everything- sorry for going on and on- I just really don't want to rush into any decisions without thinking everything through. Thank you again for your thoughts and your help. |
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| First, congrats on thinking things thru!
Sheepdogs are highly active, however, if given enough exercise, they tend to do fine anywhere! I dont think they are well suited for running long distances but they do pretty well on hikes and walks....just dont do a lot of it while they are small. There are several people on the board here who live in smaller yardless settings and the dogs seem to do just fine. Exercise, again, is the key. There is a lot of grooming involved, whether you ''show'' or dont...with longer hair, it can take up to an hour and a half to fully brush out..and that should be done AT least once a week... Puppy cut is easier and most of our dogs have this cut, especially during the warmer months. All in all, I think you will find this breed to be fun and loving....Im sure everyone else will chime in too.....we arent a quiet bunch  |
Quote: There is a lot of grooming involved, whether you ''show'' or dont...with longer hair, it can take up to an hour and a half to fully brush out..and that should be done AT least once a week...
Ah yes, the fun part of the dog ownership, lol. I have been growing out my Tzu for the winter and we went for a lovely fall walk about 45 minutes, and then I spent 2 hours carefully taking out all the lovely fall pineneedlesand burrs that stuck to his coat. I imagine it will be 10 times this if I tried to grow out a sheepdog- though I'm fine with a puppy cut (it's what we always get for Ollie). How high energy is "high energy?" Like are they bouncing off the walls at all times energetic, or are they generally satistfied with a morning and evening walk? So they are better equiped for longer durations of exercise as opposed to shorter, more rigorous exercise? Is that because of their size (and hips?) or other reasons? Thanks again for answering all of my questions!! |
| It depends on the dog, too. My 4 year old is lazy. He'll walk if you take him but he's not thrilled about it and would rather be laying on the couch. My 4 month old I can already tell will be a lot higher energy. At the same age, my older guy was already a laid back puppy. The new puppy is a crazy little nut. Having an extra dog around the house really helps for wearing them out, too. I think sometimes they yearn for stimulation more than just exercise alone, you know? |
| welcome and congrats on trying to answer as many questions as possible before you get a dog. keep in mind that they are individuals and anything people tell you will be tempered by their own experience. I can see great differences in my two dogs from two different breeders. my girl can run for miles and not be tired. My boy can think about running and be exhausted - okay maybe not literally but you get the idea.
I think the best way to keep them from bounding off walls is to keep their minds occupied. even my boy benefits from short sessions of training - or hide and find games. these aren't things that need a lot of space. |
| Panda is 5 and still acts like a crazy puppy. My husband takes her for a short walk in the morning and both he and I take her for a long walk after dinner...
We also play fetch in the yard, hide and seek in the house, hide the baby (toy) and our most favorite...attack on the bed....most of these are done daily. I believe its one of the reasons that she is so calm and good. We just tucker the poor thing out...... |
| Thank you so much for your tips! This is very exciting
Do you guys have any thoughts on opposite sex pairing of dogs? Ollie a male, and I have heard it would be good to compliment that with a female (even though both would be fixed). Is there any truth to this? I know that HD can be an issue with this breed, are there other issues that I should be aware of? I see that they are friendly with other dogs- but do they seem to really enjoy being in the company of others? |
| Sex does not matter for years I had all bitches together that got on famously, friend of mine had 5 dogs together that they never had problems with.
What is important is Temperament! Look at Ollie and how he is and choose an OES that will fit in with him. Buying from a reputable registered breeder reduces the chances of Health problems as they have tested their breeding stock over generations to reduce the incidences of things that do crop up in the breed. You might pay a bit more then an OES from a BYB but in the long term prospect of things it reduces the chances of vet visits and the expenses associated there. HD, eye screening clearance certificates, thyroid clearances are the bare minumum that should be available to peruse on the sire and dam of a litter you are viewing. If non of those clearances are available for you to see then look elsewhere  |
| sounds like you are really thinking things through; good for you!
My boyfriend and I are both illustrators. We work from home, and are never gone more than 4 - 6 hours ( think "dinner and a movie" time frame). We don't have a fenced in yard, but instead take our 2 sheepdogs for walks, training classes ( I think we are going to start agility next) and spend about 1 - 2 hours at the dog park almost every evening. We also take advantage of a play all day Doggie Day Care about one day a week -- usually on the dinner and a movie night. Also; growing up we lived in New York city for a time with our Sheepdog. He seemed to do just fine. While I personally prefer a more "park like" situation for a sheepie, they can get along very well in the city. Good Luck!!! |
Tee Hee! I just found you on Deviant Art!!!  |
| haha how cool! And oh god, don't read the deviant art page! lol. My site is www.ajawells.com and a much better and more professional site! |
| Is there a general difference in temperament between (altered) male and females OES?
I am a bit confused on the shedding thing- I have read both that they don't shed at all and also read that they are 'moderate' shedders. Which one is it? Does it depend on the dog (like labradoodles or whatever)? When you pet a sheepdog, will fur get on your hand like an average dog? My Tzu blew his coat around age 8 months which resulted in some matting (and a shave!) but I really didn't notice any fur around the house- any difference with sheep dogs? Are there any breed specific issues I should be aware of? I had read that they can be protective of their property/family but again, also have read this is not true (Im sure that a lot is dependent on socialization and circumstance), but what is the norm? Are they barkers? I haven't noticed, but is there any kind of breed specific legislation against them in the US? Ok, heres one- Anyone here have a small dog with their OES? Are OES generally gentle with other dogs, or do they play hard? My Tzu is a rough and tumble kind of guy, but at the end of the day, he's still 14 lbs
Thanks again to all of you!! |
| For the most part, the only hair that a well bred OES should lose is in your brush. They lose hair more like people do than other dogs. They don't have a shedding season. No, you'll not get hair on you when you touch them. If that much hair comes out, you'd need to see a vet!
A few people have the big dog/small dog combination and it works well. I would think if they grew up together, it would be something you could work with. |
| I have all different sizes, and they all get along. The smallest is a frail, ill Min Pin that weighs a bit over 6 pounds.
He regularly hangs out with my 45 pound older basset hound, going to shows and stuff. About the hair - I get way more hair each from my basset, rat terrier and coonhound than my OES. Chewie is in full coat, and the only real hair I get is in the pin brush when I brush him. The hair on the furniture and clothes is from the others.
My daughter went back to college, and they sold their house this summer and moved to an apt closer to her school. Her 2 OES are doing very well adjusting to apartment life. They used to have a small fenced back yard. Now they have to go out on lead for all potty trips and walks - from a 3rd floor apt~. It was easier as they are adults. It would definitely be more challenging to do with a puppy and potty training. |
| Thank you guys for your wealth of knowledge!!!
I potty trained my Tzu in our apartment and while it was definitely a challenge (running down the stairs with a puppy who needs to go right NOW is comical in hindsight) we were able to manage. I am going to look into some breeders and see if I can get on a wait list of some sort, maybe build a relationship with a breeder now so they can help me learn more and I can prepare for a pup. Probably won't happen for at least another 6 months, but I can wait I like the idea of having my current dog being a real "dog" at age 2 years.
This is very exciting- what sweetheart dogs. |
| Hair/wool you will get lots of undercoat when brushing - which you will do a lot of, currently my 15 month old pup occupies around 1 and 1/2 hours of my day, he loves getting wet and muddy and requires a lot of brushing.
Like has been said above apart from when you are brushing, unless you stand on his coat when he is under foot then you'll notice very little hair. One warning, the hair from the brushing can get everywhere if you are not thourough about tidying up afterwards - then that is a funny time a mad sheepie and a vacuum cleaner is a sight to behold. My particular hound is very bouncy by nature - read very bouncey. But this is not to a point of a problem, it is only when I allow it. Most of the time around the house he is happy to bring you his toys and play, or plonk himself down. They counter surf - they are big dogs if you leave tasty morsels or face cloths out, then they will go! Exercise - Archie gets at least five miles of walks a day from me, he also needs regular off leash time to stretch his legs, Archie will tire upto 8 other dogs out with his bouncy herding, it doesn't tend to be continual running more like long bursts with 30 second full recovery periods. He is however a puppy I hope at some point this may ease a little (Please!) They are big dogs - they can be big clowns with big feet, eager to please, selectively deaf, have a very loud bark, which could be an issue in an apartment? they are the most wonderful companions, in our case he loves people and other dogs. I would try and meet someone from this forum and meet and maybe stay with a few for a day or so and see how you feel about a full blown clown. Puppies are cute, these grow into big cute puppies (not sure if they grow into dogs?) Be prepared to talk to every single person you walk past in the street. Archie is my first dog at 45 (at the time we brought him home), he is wonderful, the most rewarding animal you could wish for. |
| I'm going to back up everything Archie's Slave said.
My OES do not shed. By "shed", I mean if you run your hand along thier backs, you'll come away with a hair-free hand, unlike if you pet a German Shepherd Dog or a Labrador Retriever. But I groom in the living room ( no real other place to do it) and I do notice that after grooming the hair is everywhere. My girls didn't shed this fur; I combed it out of them. But its all over the place if you aren't careful. And yes; its alot of combing and brushing. I wish I could dedicate the 1.5 hours a day to it. I usually try for an hour a night on each girl; and I'm never ahead of the mats right now. But I have two, and they chew on one another and wrestle; I understand this makes it worse. Saturday I spent 2.5 hours on Luna alone, and really just got the very bad ones out. My guys don't counter surf, but the seem to be the only sheepdogs that don't. They have, however, figured out that our lunches are often on the computer desks, and that is a quick grab for an unattended sheepie. This has only happened twice, and only since Adam made the mistake of feeding them from his plate... 
Adam is like Archie's Slave; he's 41 and our 2 sheepie girls are his first dogs ever. And the exercise thing is about right too. I read somewhere online that an adult OES needs 2 hours of aerobic exercise a day. yesterday my girls ran non-stop at the dog park for 3 hours. They came home and napped, and today are ready to go again. But now its raining, and they are taking all that energy and instead expending it by wrestling on the sofas. (Remember, wrestling = mats=brushing for hours). All that being said, I wouldn't trade my girls in for anything in the world! |
| The counter surfing - does not happen at our house either. I can honestly say Chewie has never stolen any food off the counter or table. He and Simon (basset) are both great.
Maggie the coonhound is a work in progress - she was rescued as a young adult after being starved, she also had no clue what furniture is. She climbs trees out hunting, so a counter is nothing to her! 
I also go shopping for groceries, dog food, etc. and can leave the dogs in the car with them and no one eats anything.  |
| They are truly the most wonderful dogs I have ever come into contact with. They love their people, may be I should just say people. Bella is the most social dog I ever had, treats are great but new dogs and new people, treats be D****. The are velcro dogs, they will cling to you. Our vet and trainer say "They are slow to mature." Read they act like clowns and idiots until they are about 10. They require a lot of grooming both by you and by the pro's. However, they are worth every second. They return ten times as much love and devotion as you will ever give to them. But they are not for everyone. You have to make the commitment too. They require a lot of training. But IF you fit they are great dogs. Please read and digest "i am your puppy". |
| Barney doesn't countersurf. He'll even leave mouth-level food on the coffee table alone (although he does like to air lick VERY near the food, which occasionally means contact with the food and his tongue ). |
barney1 wrote: Barney doesn't countersurf. He'll even leave mouth-level food on the coffee table alone (although he does like to air lick VERY near the food, which occasionally means contact with the food and his tongue
).and THIS is only one of the many reasons Panda LOVES barney....she does the exact same thing....plus the loooong sniff across the edge of the table top... |
Darcy wrote: barney1 wrote: Barney doesn't countersurf. He'll even leave mouth-level food on the coffee table alone (although he does like to air lick VERY near the food, which occasionally means contact with the food and his tongue ).and THIS is only one of the many reasons Panda LOVES barney....she does the exact same thing....plus the loooong sniff across the edge of the table top... Awww, they would be so happy together... |
| Baloo has never counter surfed anything (YET... knock on wood) but that's not to say he hasn't stood at the counter, stretching out his neck to see what is on it and sniffing, sniffing, sniffing.
He also will leave your plate alone if you leave it at his level, like the coffee table, but he will lick those chops and sniiiiifffff the air around it and lick his lips again and again.... you can almost see how bad he wants to grab it and run~ 
I try to stick with brushing him out once a week. That is my usual Saturday afternoon. Pop in a movie and break out the grroming table. He just gets bathed when he needs it, not weekly. I have many times stood him in the shower and just rinsed his feet off when we came back from the park and it was rainy/muddy. Most mats on him are on his feet and inner legs. His back, sides, head, ears etc. stay relatively mat free. Just a good brushing will do most of the time. |
Quote: The counter surfing - does not happen at our house either.
I think a lot of counter surfing has to do with the uprights and training. If you leave a new dog unsupervised during the setting-of-boundaries phase, some will take the opportunity to steal food off the counter... it's why you crate them the first several months when you're unable to supervise them. Each time they successfully steal something, they've been rewarded for the inappropriate behavior and will continue to do it until they've been retrained not to. The only counter surfer we've ever had was one that arrived from rescue at 11 months of age with this knowledge It's more difficult to untrain them. |
6Girls wrote: Quote: The counter surfing - does not happen at our house either. I think a lot of counter surfing has to do with the uprights and training. If you leave a new dog unsupervised during the setting-of-boundaries phase, some will take the opportunity to steal food off the counter... it's why you crate them the first several months when you're unable to supervise them. Each time they successfully steal something, they've been rewarded for the inappropriate behavior and will continue to do it until they've been retrained not to. The only counter surfer we've ever had was one that arrived from rescue at 11 months of age with this knowledge It's more difficult to untrain them.Come round mine and tell Archie not to steal the cats food(up on the counter, in the utility room, where they all sleep.) will you 
I feel so inadequate around all you other owners  |
| I posted (preposterously long and rambling) a reply to a similar
question today. It's verrrrrry long. Anyway, it's in Rescuing category in reply to Newbies.... Merry Christmas
Supposed to be my two cents' worth, but as you'll see it's much more. yawwwwn |
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