The Great Pelt Debate
Of course we forgot to weigh him beforehand. But...drum roll please (*barf bag on the side) my vet though it would be AMUSING for me to keep the pelt (amusing for HER is more like it!!!) I made her swear that if push ever came to shove and I had to explain to someone in a position of authority why I have what looks to be a skinned OES (sort of) in a garbage bag, she will speak on my behalf to the people trying to have me committed 
I think she thinks it has educational value. I'm not quite sure what she has in mind. Perhaps a grooming demo where we roll out Oliver's former puppy coat as a reminder for people to either brush their puppies to the skin or have them shaved down? I don't know. Her suggestion that I bring the pelt to the next club meeting makes me suspicious that she is secretely trying to get me thrown out of the club or something 
Anyway, I'm debating whether or not I should have it dry cleaned before I store it away and if I should, you know, throw a few month balls in there
Yes I realize this entire "conversation" is bizarre. I guess you had to be there. We didn't get before pictures but half way through I begged her fiance to take some in progress pics that are downright frightening. (Once he sends them to me I'll share) I know Oliver's far from the worst case a rescue has ever seen. But his ears were pelted to his head and his testicles were pelted to his hind end which may explain why, when St Vet took him out afterwards he was flapping both sets liberally and tried to mount Sybil on the fly 
More seriously, he also had burn marks on his neck from his electonic collar for their underground fence. No, the collar wasn't still in there, thank god. This was not a case of deliberate abuse, rather ignorant neglect by people who cared enough about the dog to want more for him, but didn't know how to accomplish that except to give him up. He's a happy enough lad. Playful. Surprisingly not as stinky as you might think After I told him to keep his newly flapping manly accoutrements away from my sweet little girl, I promised him there is more to sheepdog life and better things await him. I didn't know what else I could tell him. He's about to have some reconstructive surgery to correct for the dangly parts. I'm thinking maybe we should have done that quickly before he realized that he still had them 
Amazing how resilient these guys are. As for the rest, I'm still a little stunned. And not sure what I'm supposed to do with my "little" momento of his former life. Kristine |
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| Sounds like what MO came from the shelter wearing. As an older puppy, she was in the horrid hair stage, matted, poopy to where I couldn't decide if she had a tail (stub) and what her sex was.........it was nasty. Like you I've never thought to weigh it.....I'm guessing .......I don't know. I'm thinking 5 lbs?
Yes, I'd wash it. It's already "felted" mostly anyway, what damage will more water do? Plus washing will eliminate some other nasties and unfriendlies, unless you want to keep it around. Dried poop isn't too bad, but fleas, etc would be. |
You have a great educational tool in that pelt  No I would not wash it, I would store it with something that smells good like a lavendar bag in with it.
Education it will be for people to actually see what happens when an OES is not properly cared for, dirt, felted and maybe even dags hanging off it. Years ago the OES club here had the breed on TV, they produced from a rescue for the cameras a felted pelt to show poeple that might have an interest in the breed BE PREPARED for a high maintenance breed if you really want an OES. So keep it as it is a great learning tool and something like that, that is visual makes more of a point then saying they can matt.
Best wishes with the dangle removal, hope after the shave down the fella is feeling so much better and the burn marks heal up well now. How much did the pelt weigh on its own, have you weighed it yet? I imagine heavier as it is so felted.  |
| Heck, I have nooooooo idea... but I sure loved the story!
Thanks. |
The largest single mat I've removed from a rescued OES was 17 lbs.. Never collected an entire pelt and weighed it, though.  |
oh my did you call sybil your sweet girl? are you feeling alright? 
glad to know the puppy is still a happy guy. we all know how quickly they can matt but sounds liek you have a good educational tool. |
lisaoes wrote: Best wishes with the dangle removal, hope after the shave down the fella is feeling so much better and the burn marks heal up well now. How much did the pelt weigh on its own, have you weighed it yet? I imagine heavier as it is so felted.
He already feels much improved by all accounts
I still have't weighed the pelt/felt, but it's really not that terribly heavy. Certainly not 17 lbs worth, Nita! Holy! I think it was his entire puppy coat up until that point, just matted to the point where it added about an inch of body to the entire dog. Well, more on his head and neck. That was truly disgusting. A limited amount of poop and pee attached to it. I really think the pelting was fairly recent and occured pretty quickly. And NO FLEAS thank god. My vet could barely believe it. She really expected worse. But my sense is that his people did try to take decent care of him to the best of their knowledge and ability, if that makes sense. I'll have to dig out some lavender
Lisa - I think you and my vet are both right on the educational value. It came off in two pieces: head piece/neck and body (and didn't include his legs, which were not as bad, or parts of the less sanitary portions which my vet trimmed off. It looks a little eerie when you lay it out, truth be told.
Kristine |
kerry wrote: oh my did you call sybil your sweet girl? are you feeling alright?
.Just wonderful, thanks for asking
I figured you'd call me on that. It's amazing how quickly the bratty little heathen "puppy" bitch becomes momma's little princess when some juvenlile delinquent takes a shine to her...
Kristine |
| We didn't weigh this pelt but,
I can say she felt alot better after that coat was removed! http://www.neoesr.org/pelt.htm |
| Kathy - isn't it amazing?
Maybe we should start a "sisterhood of the traveling pelt". Coming to an OES event somewhere near you...
Ugh. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: Kathy - isn't it amazing?
Maybe we should start a "sisterhood of the traveling pelt". Coming to an OES event somewhere near you... Ugh. Kristine
I always feel bad when the adopting families cringe at their hair cut! (aka nakedness) They don't understand what we start with! This is a pic of the "Pelted Patsy" (on the left) Now she is "Sweet Sugar" and mat free cuz new momma brushes everyday! http://www.slide.com/s/iEpP7T4-1j83lLVAHGnUL8pgxG8Ejk9Z |
| I had a foster last winter 2007, whose entire body was a pelt, it was horrible - I do not know how the dog walked. I wish I would have kept it to show how cruel people are to their animals. she is a happy sheep now living with a nice family. |
Sheepie2 wrote: I had a foster last winter 2007, whose entire body was a pelt, it was horrible - I do not know how the dog walked. I wish I would have kept it to show how cruel people are to their animals. she is a happy sheep now living with a nice family.
I get a feeling with the pelting situation that it isn't necessarily cruelty, which to me implies wilful neglect or intentional abuse, but often just plain cluelessness. The people who had Oliver told us he wasn't matted. And I do think they actually believed that since the top of his coat was fluffy.
Not to start a great debate on semantics, but in this breed when it comes to grooming it doesn't seem to take a lot for a coat to get out of control and that may be the bigger lesson for prospective OES owners. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: I get a feeling with the pelting situation that it isn't necessarily cruelty, which to me implies wilful neglect or intentional abuse, but often just plain cluelessness. The people who had Oliver told us he wasn't matted. And I do think they actually believed that since the top of his coat was fluffy.
Not to start a great debate on semantics, but in this breed when it comes to grooming it doesn't seem to take a lot for a coat to get out of control and that may be the bigger lesson for prospective OES owners. Kristine As someone who sat down to brush their full coated dog the other night and ended up with a totally shaven sheepie - I have to agree. With Morgan bering sick I was lax in grooming Marley for a couple of weeks and although she looked lite and fluffy - she was matted severely around her chin and her chest. It doesn't take long at all - and with some of the dogs it seems to happen sooner than others. I really don't think we do the breed and potentially excellent owners any service by calling somer neglect cruelty - yes the dog should have been groomed better, but life happens and sometimes people don't (or can't) see what is happening in front of them. Honestly if we weren't going overboard breeding coat we may have more pet homes available to us. In light of the country's new direction perhaps we can all try not to knock others down, but try to help them learn to do things correctly (and that a shaved sheepie can be a happy sheepie - Marley hasn't stopped doing the happy dance all week) |
kerry wrote: As someone who sat down to brush their full coated dog the other night and ended up with a totally shaven sheepie - I have to agree. With Morgan bering sick I was lax in grooming Marley for a couple of weeks and although she looked lite and fluffy - she was matted severely around her chin and her chest. It doesn't take long at all - and with some of the dogs it seems to happen sooner than others.
I think I'm feeling uncharacteristically magnanimous due to my own grooming shortcomings of late as well
Some times it's the time of the year (high humidity, lots of rain), some times it's the stage of the coat. Some times it's the type of coat. Liz can go from zero to matted in no time at all. I buzzed her a couple of weeks ago. I could have dematted her, but with hiking and wet weather, nah. Buzzzzzz .She's been a little speed demon ever since too. I think some dogs love feeling naked more than others. Her mom, Belle, still hasn't forgiven me for her buzz cut and it's been over a month.
I've lost count of how many times I've put one of my own dogs up on the table thinking they were basically mat free just to (3 hours later) be thinking "where the heck did this come from?" Sometimes the neglect is effectively abuse. Such as when a dog can't walk properly, That's bad, no question. Perhaps what we need is an OES pelt museum. Eh, for the sake of sanitation etc, perhaps a pictorial virtual one
Kristine |
| Well, I do still have the pelt (in storage) Perhaps I'll take a pic when I have a few minutes to spare.
For now, newly depelted (a month ago): 
A month later, sans balls, dew claws, sores on his neck: 
Yeah, my thought exactly: 
His foster person (a vet, lucky him!) says he needs a working home and by this she means running three hours a day won't even cut it. Though he is athletic and energetic, he's not your run of the mill guy and really needs MENTAL exercise as well or it will be like living with my Sybil (detailed elsewhere, in case anyone has missed her adventures in evil) Only taller, pushier and with bigger ears
He's about a year old, loves kids, loves other dogs (because he can be rambunctious. they can some times get fed up with him and tell him off - he was fine with miy guys, but they're a bit more laid back about newcomers than some) and is good with cats. And needs to stay in the upper Midwest or thereabouts. You didn't think we'd let this kind of cute out of our sight, right?
He's not on Petfinder yet, but I expect he will be fairly shortly. Kristine |
Good Luck....he is so cute!  |
Donner's Mom wrote: Good Luck....he is so cute!
He IS! Doesn't Marty need an agility prospect to go with his obed/rally dog...? 
I think geography can be overcome for people who have titled dogs... 
Oh, don't worry. I won't tell Marty about him if you don't. Kristine |
Oh, he is a cutie. 
I think he and Marty would make a great team. |
| I think our paws are full here!
I think we may get our little Pooh Diddy(wheatie) into agility one of these days!
I bet a great home will come along for the munchkin!!! |
Donner's Mom wrote: I bet a great home will come along for the munchkin!!!
It will. I'm not worried. I just hate wasting a working dog on a non-working home.
Plus, in his case, it would be a bad mix
Kristine |
| He looks like a doll!
I wish there were more homes out there for these silly pups! |
| Oh he is cute, hope he finds a home with someone that will have a blast working him and all that bouncy energy.
Glad to hear you kept the pelt, how does it smell, hope you put some essential oils or some lavendar in with it so when you pull it out, it aint too on the nose |
Donner's Mom wrote: He looks like a doll!
I wish there were more homes out there for these silly pups! Oh, lord - we have applications aplenty. There are lots of people wanting OES, but can they handle a dog like him...?
One person, an experienced OES person at that, when she spoke to the woman who is fostering him, listened to the whole spiel on his virtues and - ahem - challenges (high energy, low boredom threshold is not a good combination ) let my vet give her the entire low down and then still asked: "yes, but is he calm?"
After vet stopped laughing she said no, not a chance, and the woman said forget it. Well, we're not going to lie to anyone. He's like living with an oversized Mexican jumping bean and he's only a year old so it ain't gonna go away over night
What we really need are more working homes. There's a reason we keep getting these baby dogs surrendered to rescue. They need jobs!!! Kristine |
lisaoes wrote: Oh he is cute, hope he finds a home with someone that will have a blast working him and all that bouncy energy.
Glad to hear you kept the pelt, how does it smell, hope you put some essential oils or some lavendar in with it so when you pull it out, it aint too on the nose Well, it's in cold storage at the moment but thanks for the olfactory reminder.....
Love your avatar, by the way!! He really is lovely to work with apparently. Dogs like that are so rewarding because they are so grateful at the opportunity to use their noggins. Kristine |
| thank dog for that geographic restriction - I would hae been in the car already!! what a great face. he and Marley would make a great running team - three bike miles and she is just warmng up.
you might want to make hime the lead dog in your sled team |
kerry wrote: you might want to make hime the lead dog in your sled team
Bite your tongue, woman!!! I have a strict rule. I'm able to foster because I know I won't be keeping anyone. The only exception I think I'd ever be at risk for making is for an ancient dog. I have a soft spot there. But I can't be hoarding all of these great young dogs. Selfish!! A geographical exception would always be made in your case , but Marley would HATE him. Even some of Amy's bitches find him annoying, and feel compelled to tell him so
Kristine |
| at his age he probably needs more telling off. some of them are slow to learn. and miss marley gets the next year puppy free - I promised her. |
kerry wrote: at his age he probably needs more telling off. some of them are slow to learn. and miss marley gets the next year puppy free - I promised her.
' Yes, you're right. Add to that he grew up as an only dog so needs to learn to speak dog more fluently. He just loooooves everyone and everything sooooo much, it's hard to contain yourself, you know?
Marley deserves a puppy free year. It must be hard to look at a half-ton (well ) puppy and remember he's a puppy
Kristine |
| half ton puppy certainlyt acts like a puppy
Did you see where I mentioned Marley is terrified of him - she hides whenever he is around - works for now but when he is off lead more it will be tough. they may have to have seperate free time. |
| I've actually been talking to Joan about this boy, I originally applied for Sherlock but she started talking about Ode and thought he might be a good match for us.
We live in an apartment in the city though, so perhaps I should pass on this boy and take a look at Sherlock again instead? Kristine do you know anything about him? |
| A bit. Will fill you in more tomorrow PM. Need to catch some zzzs and long day tomorrow.
Cute bugger by all accounts. Easier going for sure. Kristine |
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