Intentionally Naughty
He's been doing OK recently but last night we left him and Charlie, our 5 YO OES together in the house (they can get outside) for three hours, and while we were out he reverted to the evil Toby. When we got home the little stinker was nowhere to be found. If he's not at the door bouncing around to greet us, by now it's a clear sign that he's been up to something. Sure enough, when we stepped inside and only Charlie was there to greet us, the house was trashed. Shredded box of kleenex, empty candy box, chewed up objects from the (covered) trash can, and a half chewed, whole garlic tucked between the cushions of the sofa. Toby was outside hiding out and wouldn't even come when he was called. A full 20 minutes later, he slunk into the house and uncharacteristically laid quietly on the floor behind a chair. This dog is not a slow learner. This isn't a training problem. He absolutely knows not to get into things, but intentionally and defiantly does it anyway. Who knows what goes on in the head of sheepdogs? After 40 years and 12 of them I still can't figure it out. |
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| i would think he was bored - dogs aren't intentionally bad. they live in the moment. |
| The garlic in the sofa made me laugh out loud. Are you sure there wasn't a vampire attack and he was just defending the house? Or perhaps the vampire was responsible? |
AWWWW!!! Sounds like he had fun!!!   ( sorry)...Have you tried giving him a bone with stuff stuffed in it??? It keeps my crew busy ---they concentrate on their respective bones and we haven't had a problem.....YET!!!!  |
kerry wrote: i would think he was bored - dogs aren't intentionally bad. they live in the moment.
I agree with you, he probably was bored at the moment he did the deed, although he had free run of the house and yard and Charlie who he usually sticks to like velcro. But the fact is that even though he may have been bored at that moment, after the fact he clearly knew he had done something he was in trouble for and when we returned he hid out. That's not in-the-moment thinking. That's a memory of what he knew he had done and knowing he shouldn't have. He clearly knows better but does it anyway. He seems to make a game over getting away with things with us. He even does it with Charlie too. Charlie is the dominant dog and lays claim to a box of dog toys and everything in it. Toby, on the other hand will sneak things out of the box when Charlie is not looking and hide them. If Charlie doesn't notice after awhile, Toby often goes to get the toy, and parades in front of Charlie with it. If he gets his attention, which he usually does, Toby drops it. He just seems to enjoy deliberately defying authority to make a game of it. |
ButtersStotch wrote: The garlic in the sofa made me laugh out loud. Are you sure there wasn't a vampire attack and he was just defending the house? Or perhaps the vampire was responsible?
That was what I thought too. Clearly it was a vampire. Toby's a hero. |
| My first thought was isn't garlic bad for dogs and I'm glad he didn't eat it.
My second thought was terrble twos. |
rfloch wrote: He just seems to enjoy deliberately defying authority to make a game of it.
Nope. Dogs don't sit around plotting these things like defying authority . They live in the moment, so if in that moment he is bored, he will find ways to amuse himself.
Boredom can cause stress in some dogs. It does in my Sybil. I'm the same way so I usually don't get upset with her. Well, I don't shred kleenex boxes, but I do understand the inclination. 
Have you considered marching him off to oh, say an agility class? Even an obedience class? Give him a job, tire him out more effectively and the problem should resolve itself. In my experience, the smarter the dog, the more elaborate the games. I feel so sorry for this breed sometimes. Here they are, a smart working breed and we give them nothing to do. Small wonder so many of them are "naughty" and/or neurotic. Speaking of, oh, SYBIL...? Where ARE you?
Kristine |
| Okay I'll skip the poor Sybil remark and say I do love that dog!!!
I got this speach - in reverse from the vet that treated Morgan last week. He doesn't like OES because he has had so much trouble dealing with them. He loved Morgan and even took the time to call and congradulate me on the fact that I allow the dogs to do what they need to do by taking them to agility and herding. Personally I can't imagine living with them if they didn't have an outlet for all that creativity |
| Ditto that one!
I feel guilty if my dogs don't have jobs - LOL ,Kristine and I have had this conversation several times. I actually feel like I am not being a good owner if my dog is just lounging around the house. Weird.....
People have asked where I get my rat terriers from - as they are all so calm and lovable. Not like the hyper annoying things most people see. I tell them all 3 have come from different places and are totally unrelated. I get the comment.."oh, well it must be your family then." Actually Riley the rat terrier is my guilt dog. He is 2 years old, he doesn't compete and he is gun shy so he doesn't enjoy going hunting with Todd. He just gets to be the family house,yard and farm dog - he is totally trustworthy and does chores, etc with us. Feels strange just to have him hanging out. Macy does too, but she is 15 yrs old! |
| Dawn I was thinking Morgan deserved a nice backpack like Chewie has for his welcome back to the world of the living present. Any advice on where to order it from? |
kerry wrote: Dawn I was thinking Morgan deserved a nice backpack like Chewie has for his welcome back to the world of the living present. Any advice on where to order it from?
Mine that I LOVE is a Wenaha. They don't have their own retail site, but if you do a search you can find it. I'm on the lame Apple at school. or I would look it up for you.  |
| I was going to say the same as Kristine, Kerry and Dawn. Sometimes it is the sad truth that they are not little babies...and they behave the best when they are tired.
Since Boni and I are herding he's been an angel. Not that he's ever been a bad dog but he pays more attention to me, he listens better and even today after only a half an hour herding he slept all day and only lifted his head up when I prepared their dinner.  |
got sheep wrote: kerry wrote: Dawn I was thinking Morgan deserved a nice backpack like Chewie has for his welcome back to the world of the living present. Any advice on where to order it from? Mine that I LOVE is a Wenaha. They don't have their own retail site, but if you do a search you can find it. I'm on the lame Apple at school. or I would look it up for you. Here is a link - it is the Explorer II. Chewie wears a small - they really run BIG! It has the detachable pack - the main part stays on the dog and the packs can be removed. http://www.blackicedogsledding.com/page8.html I have ordered things from Black Ice - harnesses and such....fun site! Here is Chewie with his on - 
I'm glad Morgan is well enough to think about getting a pack.
They are great quality and should last for many decades! |
| thanks I did love that pack when I saw it in St Louis. Do you think Morgan would take a medium? he is a bit bigger than Chewie . |
| Chandi has the same problem, he likes to get into the garlic. We used to keep stuff on the counter such as fresh bread, fruits and vegetables. Although once Chandi figured that out he gobbled them up. We keep the Trash under the sink now so he cant snack out of it, and we purchased a bread box hopping to end this once and for all. But Chandi took this as a challenge and now knows how to efficiently open a bread box. The other day he ate some jalapeño wraps, funny thing is i found the half eaten bag on the kitchen table (he must think he needs to eat at the table too). We now just lock EVERYTHING up when we leave. |
| LOL - eating at the table!
That brings counter surfing to all new levels.....  |
| [quote="got sheepHere is a link - it is the Explorer II.
Chewie wears a small - they really run BIG! It has the detachable pack - the main part stays on the dog and the packs can be removed. http://www.blackicedogsledding.com/page8.html I have ordered things from Black Ice - harnesses and such....fun site! [/quote] Just trying to decide between the exporere II and the jog pack - like the idea of the bottle pouch on the smaller jog pack. and an outside mesh pocket for the poo bags! thanks Dawn |
| I would not get the Jogger one. Branches and tall weeds along the trail will catch on the mesh on the outside of the packs. Also, as they are learning, they catch the panniers on trees and everything. I get concerned with the plain fabric - the mesh would be worse!
I carry the water bottle in one of the panniers as part of the weight = they are still easy to get to. You need to stop anyway to drink, so no more time is really lost. When I drink, I let Chewie drink too. I have a couple caribiner clips on the D-rings (in the center - that is what I hang the poop bags from. Note the silver poop bag -
It is great having him carry out his own.... garbage! |
kerry wrote: thanks I did love that pack when I saw it in St Louis. Do you think Morgan would take a medium? he is a bit bigger than Chewie .
I think he could do a small or medium. I just went out and checked the straps on mine (a small). They can be let out another 5 inches on both the belly straps. The chest strap is about the same. For reference, Chewie is 24" tall and weighs 70 pounds. Plus all the hair! |
| thanks the explorer it is then. I am thinking the medium - Morgan is 110 pounds - even after being sick and quite boxy and with a medium the Newfie can use it as well.
he isn't feeling well again tonight - I am beginning to suspect it something he is eating. lets hope its just a hiccup in his recovery and not another serious episode. thanks again K |
kerry wrote: thanks the explorer it is then. I am thinking the medium - Morgan is 110 pounds - even after being sick and quite boxy and with a medium the Newfie can use it as well.
he isn't feeling well again tonight - I am beginning to suspect it something he is eating. lets hope its just a hiccup in his recovery and not another serious episode. thanks again K Yes - I would get the medium!! I knew he was bigger than Chewie - just couldn't remember how much. I hope he is feeling better too.  |
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