Very concerned about pup's stools...advice appreciated...
I read the post about Irritable Bowel and wasn't sure if I should post again, as they are similar, but I'm worried so I didn't think anyone would mind... For the last few weeks, Harry's stools have been of the liquid variety, with symptoms similar to Irritable Bowel ie. once you think he's finished, he starts straining and teeny wee runny pebbles are dripping (  ) out. he always seems so uncomfortable when going to the toilet and I'm sure it's not normal.
He was wormed a week or so ago (he's 16 weeks old and has been regularly done) - the panacur granules were for a pup of 20 kilos (he's 16 k) but the vet said that wouldn't be a problem. He had one sachet a day for 3 days and is due his next batch in a couple of weeks (they recommended more frequent worming as he did vomit up a couple of worms a while ago when he got the granules in his food). I therefore don't think that's the problem. I then thought it was the yoghurt drops we've been giving him as treats - we stopped them and replaced them with bits of his 'Bakers Complete Puppy Food' as treats. This seemed to ease it slightly for a day or two but we're back to runny. I then thought it might be due to irritated skin. When he's been runny, we've been giving him a wee wipe with a sensitive skin (no perfume) baby wipe...I stopped this in favour of a damp sponge a couple of days ago and it doesn't appear to have made a difference. I really have no idea what could be wrong with him. I thought he was maybe being fed too much but the packet says a pup of his age should be on about 750g a day. The vet says a pup should be fed about a 20th of his body weight, which would be 800g a day (16kg/20?). We feed him 650g a day not including any treats, which seems so much food in the bowl (relative to his size) and when you consider that he is pooping about 4 times a day (not small ones either)... Could it have something to do with anal glands needing expressed? This was done a while ago when he was scooting but I didn't think any dog would need this done regularly (although come to think of it, my mum's lab gets it done weekly - he has a really bad tummy though and is on special food and medicine) Any input at all would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Gillx |
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| It would be unusual for him to have a problem with his anal glands at this young age. However, anal glands are normally expressed with regular bowel movements and if there are problems with that - then the anal glands can become impacted. You would still need to determine the cause of the bowel problems though.
Worms need multiple treatments usually - I would discuss de-worming again with the Vet - it sounds like that's probably the underlying problem. I wouldn't suspect IBS in this case. If it's not worms - I would think about changing his food and seeing if that helps. Good LUck! Kristen |
| Ours had somewhat runny loose stools while he was on Science Diet--the same straining at the very end. Since he's been switched to Nutro his stools have been much firmer, with no liquid or straining at the end.
I second Kristen's food change suggestion! |
| I would also suspect worms, or poor quality food, but I would also suggest the vet check for coccidia and giardia.... runny stools on a regular basis are not something to be taken lightly... it can become very serious very fast. I hope you figure it out and he is feeling better soon. Panacur is not the best worming agent either especially for sheepies, I would ask the vet about Pyrantel.... they should check a stool sample though to see exactly what kind of worms you are dealing with. Most dogs usually have roundworm, tapeworm is usually only a problem if the dog has fleas, or have eaten a rodent. There are many kinds though.
In regards to the amount you are feeding, a high quality food means they don't have to stuff as much into their little tummies, their digestive systems don't have to work as hard to get nutrition out of the food. A decent quality food weighs about 90 grams a cup, and most puppies should eat about 3 cups a day, or 180 grams, increasing as they get older. An adult sheepdog at about 70 lbs should eat 4-6 cups a day. More than that and it is likely the dog will have frequent, loose stools. I would say 3-6 cups is average for the dog for most of it's life, unless it is an exceptionally large dog. |
| Along with what everyone else has said about food, but remeber if you frequently change his foods, give treats it cause an upset in the digest and it takes awhile to settle down. That's why they recommend, gradually phases out one for another.
Giradia is very easy to catch, Remy may have had that last spring when we first started getting run off from the snow...she hasn't had any diareeha since that time. She got it simply from drinking out of puddles while we walked. Another thing is never feed him anything greasy, any fatty food will cause diareeha, and like our lab once had blood in his stool. that freaked me out, and after a vet visit explaining what he's eaten in the past day or two, when I said a slice or two of bacon...lesson learned. That was a long time ago, but to this day I have never fed any dogs bacon again...they get fake stuff. Table scraps too can be too much for a dog. I would be watching his water so he's not dehydrating. And best of luck as you pin point his problem, nothing worse than cleaning that off OES hair. |
| Hi Gill
I took Mitch off the Bakers complete (adult) because of the same problem.He just kept straining all the time and i Knew something wasn't right. I have had 5 oes in total and all of them have had sensitive stomachs and all of them have ended up on different foods. Mitch is now on James Wellbeloved and he loves it and he manages 2 poops a day if he is lucky with no straining. He has been eating it for about a year now and has had a bad stomach once in that time so i cut all treats out and it cleared up in a day . I just hope my next little pupster likes the same food. |
| I don't know if your vet recommended this or not to help settle his tummy but try boiled (boiled takes a lot of the grease out) ground beef & rice for 3-5 days. (This can make him a little constipated though) Maybe his regular kibble is still too harsh on his tummy and he's not able to heal from the worms.
Keep your chin up, I'm sure this will pass soon. We went through a horrible squirty diarrhea thing for a couple of weeks.  |
| Thanks for all your replies. After reading the first couple of posts, my husband rushed out and bought some new puppy food. He got Purina One (Chicken and Rice) for puppies. Puppies of Harry's age and size are to be fed about 300/350g per day as opposed to the 750g of Bakers - seems a bit more like it.
After reading about the James Wellbeloved, I checked the ingredients for the Lamb and Rice Kibble on the internet and it does seem so much more pure than the Bakers. The Purina doesn't appear to be bad though so I'm going to stick with it as (1) we bought about 6 bags, (2) we lost the receipt and (3) I don't like the thought of changing his food lots. Hopefully it will suit him better, if not, wellbeloved it is! Will speak to the vet about giardia and coccidia although I'm not too worried about them yet. He did eat some cat poop at my grannies house last week and has today dicovered the joy of licking sheep poop when at my in-laws' farm (ick) but I'm not going to panic, even though I just read that coccidia can kill puppies... 
I'm hoping that higher quality food in smaller amounts should do the trick... Thanks again, Gillx |
| Definitely test for coccidia... sometimes it can take weeks to grab hold and show more symptoms, but if the dog begins to act unwell other than diarreah, then I would take it immediately to the vet, because once they start being lethargic and weak, you may not be able to save the puppy.
Especially if the puppy is eating cat poop or livestock poop! It is definitely a risk! Along with all kinds of other parasites and bacteria. |
| Gill,
Hello. We went through something similar with our Bailey when he was about 16-18 weeks old. Diarhea is not very fun with two sheepdog puppies in the same crate.
We have a brother and a sister, Bailey and Madison. Bailey had the problem the worst, but Maddie was not much better. Anyway, we thought it was food related. The vet said it could be allergies. We fed them boiled ground beef and rice. None of this was really helping. I had taken stool samples to the vet before, but we did it again. This went on for about a week and it is a horrible thing for people and dogs alike to deal with. The vet did another stool test. They actually did several types this time. Well now they found roundworms in both dogs and another type in Bailey. I believe they called them lungworms. These are not very common we were told. They vet said they are hard to find and they had to do some test that had to do with floating them out or something. I wish I could tell you exactly, but I just don't remember the details. You may want to at least have some more stool tests done if you haven't already. It sure helped us out. While all of this was going on, our dogs acted fine. They would play and eat and drink and had no visible signs anything was wrong other than the poops. This is why the vet never really got concerned, I guess. We certainly were. After discovering the worms, the vet gave us some kind of powder to mix in their food and in two days, the problem was gone. We finished the five day treatment and all has been well since. Maybe this will help some. I know it is awful going through it. Good Luck! Eric |
| He's itching uite a lot lately as well, which I've read canbe a symptom of food allergy or intolerance. I think it's the Bakers puppy food but I will certainly speak to the vet about testing. Worth it to make sure he's healthy and happy! |
Anonymous wrote: He's itching quite a lot lately as well, which I've read can be a symptom of food allergy or intolerance. I think it's the Bakers puppy food but I will certainly speak to the vet about testing. Worth it to make sure he's healthy and happy!
Yup, that was me! Forgot to log in...dopey me! |
| Bailey has also been itching a lot lately and had red spots all over his belly. They gave us some pills for that which helped, but we think we have figured out that it is an allergic reaction to the stuff we steam clean our carpets with. We have steamed twice and each time have the red, itchy problem.
He also sometimes pees on his front legs a little and I don't think that helped any. Keeping the hair around his sprinkler has helped also. I have also switched from Science Diet to Nutro to help deal with the itchy skin. Ohhhh, the learning pains.  They are sure worth it though. I just remember my poodle being a lot less work.
Good Luck! Eric |
| That's the thing! When I was a kid, I thought dogs were hardy beasts that you could exercise endlessly and feed any old food, supplemented by scraps from tables etc. Funny how wrong you can be...this is far more like having a child! They can't be walked too long in case it harms their developing bones, their tummies are sensitive and you can't just feed them anything...it's much more work than I thought it would be! Totally worth it though, I love having Harry and wouldn't substitute an OES for any other breed (remind me of that when I'm wiping his bum...again!!!)
ps. I've reduced his Bakers slightly over the last couple of days and added some Purina One - we just had the first solid 'deposit' in ages - we've clinked our glasses and toasted 'to many more'!!! (fingers crossed) |
My Fingers are crossed as well Gill. 
I know the Bakers was upsetting mitches stomach but i think it is an oes thing because my friend has a lab and a spaniel and they are both fine on Bakers. I have never tried purina one so i dont know what it is like but i hope Harry does well on it. Love the name by the way (it's the same as my dads) |
| Think it must be catching this forgeting to log in thing .above post was mine |
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