Change in behavior while walking
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| Enroll her in obedience classes. There you will be taught how to teach her the basic commands (heel, sit, down, stay, come, etc.). In the process of teaching her you will establish your authority and be able to (if you work with her consistently) require her to heel properly along side you, paying attention to you rather than the distraction provided by another person or dog. Once she understands the requirements of the heel command, then you can use these distractions to reinforce her requirement of staying with you rather than lunging toward another dog. |
| I am total agreement with George...
I am no expert, but there are many, many of them on the forum. BTW..... Welcome to the forum from my crew in St. Louis!!  |
| You have been given great advise. I just wanted you to know you are not alone. My Aussie China is one of the most laid back sweet tempered dogs you would ever want to meet, but for some reason German Shepherds tick her off. In our old neighborhood, I used to walk all three of my dogs(1 OES 2 Aussies) at once, daily. We could walk by about any other type of dog and not have a problem, other then Violet wanted to play, but if China saw a German Shepherd coming her way, she would start acting up. Soooo when I saw them (there was a breeder in our neighborhood) I would change our route. Things are different in our new neighborhood, so far no German Shepherds and I walk the girls separately now.
Good luck! |
| The lunging is pretty standard fare for rather insecure/somewhat fearful dogs. The reaction is as follows: "oh, I don't think I like that. I'll put on a display and maybe it will go away." And, usually, it does (skate boarders carry on, other dogs keep walking with their owners). I.e. she learns that this works for her. The more she does it, the more ingrained it becomes. In the mean time, owner starts to worry. Is the sweet puppy turning into cujo? Tightens leash, breathing changes in anticipation of an approaching trigger. That feeds into the puppy's fear: "OH MY GOD, there really IS something to be afraid of".
How do I know this? I lived it with my first OES. She was a well trained, well socialized after I got her (though, in her case, of questionable breeding and I didn't get her till she was six months old), OES who went to work with me the first summer I had her when she was a year old. I worked with polo ponies. She was offlead all the time, with lots of other people, other dogs, horses, she came with me to the track when I exercised the ponies and would mind her own business. She came to games and would stay nicely loose by the trailer while 9 ponies raced up and down a huge field with people hitting a ball with a mallet, huge crowds of spectators, other players and their strings of horses, loud speakers. I thought she was bomb proof. I was wrong. She hit a certain age, a switch flipped, I didn't cotton on to what was happening and the next thing I knew she was a nightmare to walk around the neighborhood. Charging other dogs, barking at kids, trying to chase bicycles, skateboards. All this while on lead. I spent the rest of her life figuring out what went wrong and how to manage her, but I probably could have prevented some of it (she was a seriously fearful dog) had I had a better understanding of what was going on. Now, she was an extreme case. But most puppies hit certain fear stages and they come out of them (which she did not) just fine. I've worked with rescue dogs who are stuck in some fear stage and even with them though it takes time, you can get them out of it, but it's hard work. A puppy just starting to exibit this behavior is a much easier situation. What you want to do in addition to basic obedience training, always good advice, is work on building her confidence. Start walking her at times when there is less traffic in order to minimize setting her off (the more often she tries it, the more ingrained it becomes) Above all be a very confident, in charge, completely calm person. You are in charge, You assess the situation, you'll deal with any threats, not her. Don't molly-coddle her, but there's no point in yelling at her either. She's simply reacting at an emotional level and any emotion you throw into the situation simply feeds into that. The other thing that happens is that people start to feel mortified by their dog's bad behavior. Other people are watching. They'll think poorly of your dog, think she's aggressive (you could call it fear aggression, I guess, but it's not true aggression but rather reactivity to me), think poorly of you. Don't let that thought enter your mind. The important thing is your dog, not your (or her) image. You need to do what's right for her, not what you think people expect to see. So, while you're out walking, you see a trigger, you think good! Don't go closer, veer away a bit if you can, but not in a panic, just quietly and determinedly give her a little more distance, have her sit and watch you or at least ask her to do something calm that you can reward her for. She don't have to perform circus tricks, reward anything that resembles calm and paying attention to you, not whatever is making her insecure, because that's what you want from her, not the display. If she does start to go off, step in between her and whatever sets her off and calmly keep insisting that she give you her attention. After you get to a point, at far distances from the triggers, usually, and the lower level ones, you'll start gradually setting it up so she is closer and closer to the trigger without exploding. The explosion is what you want to avoid. If you're constantly managing her and interrupting lunging and so on, you need to back up until she can walk at a more managable distance and work back up to and then work past the threshold where the trigger would set her off. In the mean time, she still needs lots of exercise and lots of continuing exposure to other dogs and people and things. You're not trying to shield her from every little thing. To the contrary, you want her to learn that she can deal with these things calmly. Can you set it up so she has more of that (exercise, exposure) in environments where she doesn't become reactive? Play dates at friends houses who maybe have a big fenced yard and some nice, dog savvy dogs she gets along with well? You want her to have an outlet for her energy in what to her is a safe environment, while continuously adding to the things she encounters, but in a way that doesn't play into her fear while you're teaching her that she can cope. I know Kerry can speak more to this situation and I know there are e-mail lists and books and what have you dedicated to this. It's that common. But it doesn't have to be normal for her. She's just starting. You can work her through it, but better to do so now. Herding breeds seem especially prone. Kristine |
| And a thought on the issue of confronting problems that occur on your walks:
violet wrote: My Aussie China ....for some reason German Shepherds tick her off. ...but if China saw a German Shepherd coming her way, she would start acting up. Soooo when I saw them...I would change our route.
From a training standpoint, we refer to these incidents as distractions. Once the dog has been taught to heel reliably, distractions are used to give the dog a chance to choose to do the right thing and continue to heel. When he does, he is praised, if he doesn't he is corrected by a quick about turn away from the distraction. (Notice I didn't say jerk! - with a chock collar correctly fitted, your turn you jerking him, allows him to decide how quickly he responds before the collar tightens - and believe me he can respond more quickly than you can.) On the other hand, if you want a protection dog, these things are used in various levels of "agitation" to teach the dog to attack. If you avoid all distractions, the dog will learn to do as it pleases. Either way the dog is constantly learning. It up to you to decide what you want him to learn. |
George wrote: When he does, he is praised, if he doesn't he is corrected by a quick about turn away from the distraction. (Notice I didn't say jerk! - with a chock collar correctly fitted, your turn you jerking him, allows him to decide how quickly he responds before the collar tightens - and believe me he can respond more quickly than you can.).
George - if people need collar firepower, you may want to suggest they use a a prong instead of a choke - it's safer. Of course, doing a quick about-turn correction will jerk the dog if he isn't paying attention. That's the whole point. They learn they need to pay attention to avoid getting jerked - i.e the jerk is the correction whether it's an arm motion or from the oppositional force of your body going the other way. The prong serves to distribute the jerk more evenly and releases more neatly. The only dog who should be walked with a choke collar is a fully trained dog you could basically walk with a sewing thread in lieu of a leash. My obedience instructor started out back in the day of Kohler. She trained her first obed. dog part way to his UDX before he died. When the dog was necropsied she was told he had permanent damage to his trachea. He died of epilepsy that could no longer be controlled; he wasn't one of those dogs that had been strung up. Just normal corrections on a choke collar. The trachael damage was an incidental finding upon necropsy. Just something to keep in mind. Kristine |
| I thought I replied to this yesterday - seems not. Oh well there were some strange things going on whenever I tried to send a message yesterday - Kristine you missed out on a doosie of a PM
Yes your dog is at the perfect age to be exhibiting reactivity issues. Perfect social little guy one day - neighborhood terror the next day. I just checked and I posted a bit of a ramble under the figuring Fitzwilliam topic yesterday about this issue. Your baby is somewhat fearful from the sounds of it - she always has had issues at night you say. I would do two things - get a copy of Control Unleashed and work through the Relaxation Protocols (says the person who never gets past day three) and I would look for a certified IAABC behaviorist. this group is well ahead of other trainers when it comes to dealing with reactive dogs in a positive helpful way. I wasted a number of years on other trainers and behaviorists and because of that we are way behind ever getting to the point where we can go out normally with other dogs around. The good news is there are lots of resources - the yahoo lists for Shy dogs, reactive dogs and the controll unleashed list come to mind. On my counter at home are the most recent books I am reading - Click to calm, help for the fearful dog (out dated but still some usefule information). The most important things are: results are incremental. there is no off/on switch. enjoy your dog for what makes her special avoid other dogs until you can build her confidence (easier said than done) And if a trainer or anyone gives you direction or advice that feels wrong for your dog - don't assume they know better. its yourjob to protect your dog and with a fearful dog that takes on a bigger meaning. I would love anyone with a fearful dog to pm me with their dogs' pedigree - or at least their breeder. And consider taking part in the behavioral research Dr Karen Overall is doing this year. My guys are donating blood samples this week. Its important for non-reactive dogs of the same breedings to participate as well http://www.k9behavioralgenetics.com/ |
kerry wrote: I would love anyone with a fearful dog to pm me with their dogs' pedigree - or at least their breeder. And consider taking part in the behavioral research Dr Karen Overall is doing this year. My guys are donating blood samples this week. Its important for non-reactive dogs of the same breedings to participate as well
http://www.k9behavioralgenetics.com/ Kerry! How exciting! I'm going to talk to my vet and see if she can draw blood for this study on my guys at the same time she does for the OESCA sponsored CHIC DNA blood drive. Are you doing both at the same time as well? I'll see who else I can recruit. Kristine |
| since I am not going to nationals I forgot about the the CHIC drive - can we submit blood directly? My appointment is on the 23rd if there is a kit involved I don't know if I can get it in time. I feel like I waited a month for this one.
Please ask anyone you know of with relatives of my guys to submit blood. While Morgan has no behavioral issue we are submitting him because we know of some issues in other dogs in his lines so he can serve as a baseline (sort of). There is no cost other than postage to participate in the behavioral genetics study - and some lengthy on line questionnaires to do. |
| Kerry, there's no kit, i.e. it's not like the MDR1 test, I think most vets would have the specific tubes needed on hand. You can always call ahead and ask.
I went back to the OESCA Health website to check and found the following related to directions for collecting blood: Directions for submitting DNA sample via Blood Sample: 1. Contact your veterinarian to make arrangements to have blood drawn. This can be done at an appointment made specifically for this purpose, or you can arrange to have the blood drawn during some other regularly scheduled visit. Be sure to tell your veterinarian the blood sample is to be used for research purposes. Many veterinarians will then do the procedure at a reduced rate or at no cost. 2. Take your dog and ask that a sample of 5 to 10 cc’s of whole blood be drawn into EDTA tubes. Label each tube of blood with the Owners Last Name and the Call Name of the Dog. 3. The blood sample only needs to be put in the tubes and rocked gently a few times to distribute the anticoagulant. The sample should NOT be spun, have serum extracted, or have anything further done to it. 4. The blood sample should be shipped using cool packs, and ideally should be shipped immediately via overnite shipping. If the samples are held for a day or over a weekend before shipping, they must be refrigerated. For the complete info, see http://www.oeshealth.org/HRCUpdates.htm ... BloodDrDNA There's also a (fairly short) survey, and it does require that you have at least a 3 generation pedigree on the dog you're submitting a sample on. I'll work on of getting others to participate in the behavioral genetics research. Extremely interesting study. Kristine |
| I asked about a kit because the behavioral genetics study does send a kit and instructions that state (parphrasing) that blood can't be sent without double tubing (glass inside plastic) and required labels on the packaging. Also says clearly that shipper is held responsible for proper legal shipping.
They do send ice packs etc. I can only get dogs to vets on a saturday - I am hoping there is no problem with refrigerating and shipping on monday. |
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