Sound sleep or passing out???
Sadie is 2 1/2 yr. old, healthy, and all around great companion. Just recently we have noticed her "sleeping through" situations that normally she would be quite alert and interacting. 1. My husband picked-up our Chihuahua sleeping in the same room as Sadie and took her out along with our two other dogs. He already had the dogs out and was back to check on Sadie and she was still sound asleep. First time ever. 2. I stepped over Sadie to go to a different room and return to see Sadie still asleep, stepped over her again. She finally raised her head but didn't get up. She ALWAYS follows me everywhere. 3. Sadie was "sitting" on the sofa (parallel with the back) and while sitting, looked like her head just flopped against the back of the sofa...sound asleep. My husband patted her and called her name. Finally, she roused enough to look at him, but looked sort of out-of-it. A minute later though she was her ole' self. Have any of you sheepie owners any experience with anything like this? Is there any medical condition known to sheepies that might be indicated by this behavior? Or, am I just over-reacting and she is just growing into her middle-age-sound-sleep life. Of course, I hope the latter, but before I run to the vet and they think I am crazy, I need to hear the voices of those wise about Sheepies! Any thoughts are appreciated. |
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| 2 1/2 is still puppy in OES years.
At first I thought maybe she's unilaterally deaf and just happened to be sleeping on her good ear (though should have felt vibrations if you stepped over her), but the sofa flopping almost made me think focal seizure, though I wouldn't jump to that conclusion either. I do know one OES who is perfectly fine who is just a heavy sleeper. Joke is she'd sleep curled up around the toilet at night and if you had to use the facilities at night she wouldn't even wake up!!! She used to snore, too. I'm really not sure. Are there any other changes in her demeanor you can think of? Kristine |
| Thanks, Kristine.
None whatsoever! She is still the happy clown she always is, alert, quick to move to follow me. Eating is the same. May be drinking a little more water, but we have had an unusally hot 2 weeks. Sadie is an inside dog and in this heat, only goes out long enough for the necessities. Still interacts well with our other dogs, plays, etc. Can't put a finger on anything different except the 3 issues mentioned in the original post. |
| No experience but it does sound unusual that she has been doing it only recently.
Might be the hot weather making her more lethargic than normally, when she wakes from the heavy snooze, just check her gums and see that they are not pale but still a healthy colour. If she keeps going this way and out of her ordinary behaviour when she is in this heavy sleep then might pay you to see a vet and investigate it further. If her gums are pale when she wakes I'd be off to see a vet asap. |
| Thanks, Lisa. Good point. It is so out of the ordinary and she bounces back right away, so I never thought to check her gums. Feel like that is a "duh." That is why I need OES Forum. |
| Any fleas or ticks or bug bites? On heartworm prevention? |
| Thanks for new things to check. No ticks or fleas. On prevention and have checked her thoroughly; no visable bug bites. I recently gave her a puppy hair cut, so easier to check. Yes, on heartworm prevention. |
| Mine are about the same age and just starting the sound sleeping. I adopted my last sheepie at three and he always slept soundly. I am not concerned - probably cause they are both doing it - including staying in bed when I get up in the morning - teenagers :0 humph! |
Kerry - there are actually dogs who sleep in in the morning?  Holy wow. Even my soon to be 11 year old joins in the mad rush downstairs in the morning. Probably because I have the schedule of pottying then feeding them. If I was smart I'd feed them last before I leave for work in the morning. Maybe then I wouldn't have to watch the cat flee for his life as 24 legs scrambled to be first down the stairs...
Maybe it's because it's only me and the guys, but I feel kind of like the president with my own secret service detail, all dressed in gray and white (except without the limo, the chef or any pretense of respect, but about as much privacy  ) Every time I get up they get all excited and follow me around. I have this visual of them in my head: as soon as I stand up, Sybil radios Liz that I'm on the move, Liz confirms that she's got my back, Che makes sure things are clear ahead of me, and Mace and Mad are right there to make sure that no evil lurks on the refrigerator, ready to spring out and attack...
Belle has reached a dignified point of only going through the motions if it's close to dinner time or I dissappear into the shower. It's her job to guard the bath mat. That must be a Very Important Job that requires a senior agent. Really, with all that milling, it's amazing that more American presidents don't go head first down some flight of stairs. 
Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: Kerry - there are actually dogs who sleep in in the morning?
Holy wow. Even my soon to be 11 year old joins in the mad rush downstairs in the morning. Probably because I have the schedule of pottying then feeding them. If I was smart I'd feed them last before I leave for work in the morning. Maybe then I wouldn't have to watch the cat flee for his life as 24 legs scrambled to be first down the stairs...Maybe it's because it's only me and the guys, but I feel kind of like the president with my own secret service detail, all dressed in gray and white (except without the limo, the chef or any pretense of respect, but about as much privacy ) Every time I get up they get all excited and follow me around. I have this visual of them in my head: as soon as I stand up, Sybil radios Liz that I'm on the move, Liz confirms that she's got my back, Che makes sure things are clear ahead of me, and Mace and Mad are right there to make sure that no evil lurks on the refrigerator, ready to spring out and attack... Belle has reached a dignified point of only going through the motions if it's close to dinner time or I dissappear into the shower. It's her job to guard the bath mat. That must be a Very Important Job that requires a senior agent. Really, with all that milling, it's amazing that more American presidents don't go head first down some flight of stairs. Kristine Well it may be the rain but Morgan has taken to moving from the bedroom to the study upstairs in the morning and if Marley gets up she goes out on the porch and sleeps for another hour or so. But you probably hit the nail on the head - I don't feed in the morning. they get a kong and peanut butter but they know thats two ours away when I get up and are in no hurry to get started until about a half hour before its due:) The rest of the day I can relate to your secret service detail. Plus an over active Newfie puppy who thinks Morgan is his own personal play toy!! If I hadn't just gotten normal tyroiid panels on Morgan I would swear he was hyperthyroid on these meds. "Puppy?!!! Oh puppy !!!!! lets play, lets fight , lets make a BIG mess in the living room!!" Boys! |
| Kerry and Kristine, what fun to read your post and laugh. Today has been a stressful day with Sadie and I needed your humor and could identify. Sheepies are wonderful secret service agents.
My agent is having her problems though. I have been watching her closely through the weekend and checking all the things mentioned in the previous posts. Then this morning she had blood on her front leg. I check her paws, her teeth, ears...couldn't find a source. I stepped away from her as she laid down and a few minutes later there was blood on the carpet. I totally freaked. The source was her nose. As far as I know, she had not bumped or scratched it. I threw on a change of clothes and some shoes (untied) and got her into the car and we headed to the vet. I even had to help her back legs into the car. I cried all the way. The vet did a CBC and her platlet count was way down, but everything else looked good. She suspects some type of tick bite. We treat our dogs for fleas and ticks and treat our yard. We have not seen a tick in about 3 years. We are vigilent about this. However, we had a trip 2 weeks ago (incubation period) to Ft. Worth, a 5 1/2 hr. drive and stopped each way for a potty break. Both were short grass nice areas. I checked all the dogs anyway, nothing, but the only possibility. They started Sadie on high dosage of antibiotic and sent blood work to the state lab for serum panel. We should know in about a week. If that is negative, then they will look for other reasons, but for now the vets seem conficent it was a tick. I am horrified at the whole thing. We are SO careful! But as the vet said, "It only takes one tick." My poor Sadie. I love her SO much. It grieves me she is sick. No more bleeding, but she has been very lethargic. She looks at me with those big eyes and she looks so sad. Not her perky, clowny self. I hope anyone/everyone reading this will be even more vigilent about checking their babies....even with flea tick treatment. They are not 100%. |
Oh dear, glad you found out what was wrong, well done, you know your sheepies normal behaviour better then any one else, you suspected something was not right with her sleep patern and now you have found out why. WELL DONE 
Sending sheepie hugs for sadie and Get Well Soon sweetie.  |
So sorry your Sadie is so ill. Your post brought tears to my eyes.  I hope she is feeling better soon and the meds kick in fast. |
| and best wishes to Sadie.
Get better soon! |
| Don't feel bad. It's impossible to protect against the little buggers. I successfully treated Belle for lyme. You were right to bolt to your vet and your vet is right to treat on suspicion while you're waiting for the results. You may also want to remind your vet that OES are predisposed to an assortment of autoimmune issues, but don't panic. Just keep that thought in the back of your mind. It's a good thing you know your girl so well.
Now for a quick return to secret service duty.
Kristine |
| Sorry to hear about your baby - glad you took her to the vet right away. Its important to emphasise - just like mothers with kids - we know our dogs best and know when something isn't right with them.
This morning when I was leaving and the lead secret service agent didn't have peanut butter in his kong - I just knew to call the vice President (my husband) and tell him to be prepared to clean up a mess when he gets home - the kids will be making a statement or two. He volunteered to buy peanut butter on the way home. |
| Hooray for peanut butter.
Sadie has had two doses of the antibiotic - pills with peanut butter so she eats them right down. She hasn't been sick to her stomach, which the vet warned about; so that is good. She was quite restless during the night though and I was awake everytime she moved. Today, her eyes don't look quite as sad and she has looked slightly perkier. Hopefully, some time on the antibiotic will do wonders. Right now I am wondering what the serum panel will show. Only 6 more days or so to wait! Thanks everyone for your knowledge and your well wishes. |
Mophead wrote: Today, her eyes don't look quite as sad and she has looked slightly perkier. Hopefully, some time on the antibiotic will do wonders. Right now I am wondering what the serum panel will show. Only 6 more days or so to wait! .
That's REALLY encouraging. What tick borne disease(s) does the vet suspect and what antibiotic is Sadie on? I know Doxy, which is sort of standard issue I think for Lyme, has some anti-inflammatory properties so can in a sense mask other pain. Still, and I know it's early yet, but when they start a dog on an antibiotic and she starts to improve, I think most vets will take that as a sign that they're hopefully on the right track...
I'm lazy and coat pills with just a tiny bit of plain old butter so they slide right down. My dogs are pathetically easy to pill (hoovers), but PB sounds much better. So here's the question: crunchy or smooth?
Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: So here's the question: crunchy or smooth? Kristine Depends on the dog 
If Marley is being difficult we go with crunchy - other wise I find the pill on the floor half and hour later - she is a case
and you though you were being clever |
kerry wrote: Depends on the dog
If Marley is being difficult we go with crunchy - other wise I find the pill on the floor half and hour later - she is a case and you though you were being clever I did, I did.  But when you put it that way, the crunchy makes so much sense for a pill phewier...Learn something new every day! Thanks!
Kristine  |
| We use plain PB, never thought about crunchy for a "pill phewier."
Sadie is on 200 mg. doxycline 2 times a day. Vet says there are 3 common tick borne diseases: lyme, rocky mountain, ehrlichiosis. Less common is babesiosis. The serum panel should tell which one. If negative, then they will look for other causes. I don't think they will assume because she is "better" (on the anticiotic) she is ok. And of course, I won't. I want to know. I do have another question though. We have noticed Sadie doing a lot of panting. Not like she is distressed, more like heavy breathing. Could that mean something? She slept by my side of the bed and I think she was in the panting mode most of the night. The house was cool and a ceiling fan going. With her puppy-cut hair do, I don't see how she could have been hot. Wonder if this is another clue? Thanks so much for your help!!! |
Mophead wrote: I do have another question though. We have noticed Sadie doing a lot of panting. Not like she is distressed, more like heavy breathing. Could that mean something? She slept by my side of the bed and I think she was in the panting mode most of the night. The house was cool and a ceiling fan going. With her puppy-cut hair do, I don't see how she could have been hot. Wonder if this is another clue?
Thanks so much for your help!!! You do need to know, but a positive response to doxy can be a good sign while you're waiting. Panting when not hot is usually stress, and in a situation like what you describe, the best guess would be that it's due to pain or at least some discomfort. Belle will feed off of my stress. So there is that factor. But if you're in bed and reasonably relaxed, since her panting isn't extreme, my guess would be some discomfort. Kristine |
| Thanks Kristine. As I mentioned "I totally freaked out" yesterday, still teary today, so that probably did stress her. We are so closed. I will have to keep my emotions in check while going through this with her.
A good sign, she is barking wanting to be fed. (Which feeling bad never has bothered her appetite.) |
| Also make sure she has access to plenty of water. the vet always tells me they will drink more on antibiotics. Of course those of us with sheeppies know they can drink as much as a small pony anyway...... |
| Thanks Kerry, She has water always available and does seem to be drinking more. She has had four doses of antibiotci now.
Today we have more bleeding! Still from the right nostrill, but seems like maybe a tiny bit from the left. With the low platelet count I know clotting is a problem. I have tried holding ice inside a washcloth to her snout...a little while on, then off, then back on. That with petting seems to calm her. Can't tell if the ice is doing anything. Perhaps, but it is still taking a long time, over an hour, to get any clotting; then she tries to sneeze the clot out. That clot must be a nuisance for her. I am certainly open to any thoughts or ideas here. One sweet thing. One of our other dogs, just a shy little rescue mix who is rather a loner, wants to lay against Sadies tummy as if he wants to calm her. Animals are amazing. |
Mophead wrote: Today we have more bleeding! Still from the right nostrill, but seems like maybe a tiny bit from the left. With the low platelet count I know clotting is a problem.
Probably my usual paranoia, but I'd call the vet's office and mention the ongoing bleeding. Especially since we (the forum) just had another OES back East who was diagnosed with an immune-mediated bleeding disorder while being treated for a TBD. Just in case it's significant. Dogs can be amazingly empathetic. Mad has residual neurological deficiency in her left rear leg from her FCE which prevents her from itching her left ear. I try to remember to massage it, which all but puts her in a trance, but I also notice Belle cleans it for her quite regularly which is pretty cute. When I first brought her home from the vet school after her embolism diagnosis she had yet to regain any real neuroligical function in the rear so I needed to turn her over every hour or so to prevent bed sores (plus express her bladder, that was interesting) Anyway, at first I put her on an orthobed in a modified ex-pen. But after 48 plus hours of sheer terror and not knowing if I was going to lose her and not being able to be with her, I found I couldn't stand to not be near her even while sleeping. It was crawl into the ex-pen with her or put her on the bed with me. As soon as I did the latter all of the other dogs backed off. No 2 am rabble-rousing, no jumping on and off the bed, nothing. Just respectfully snuggled up on the floor minding their own business. Amazing if you know my crew. Of course, that also brings to mind Dana, an OES puppy girl I helped raise a number of years ago. She was about a year old when Belle had a close call thanks to complications from her spay surgery. I got off the phone with the vet and sank down to the floor sobbing at one point, and Dana, being your properly empathic sheepdog, just not quite knowing how to go about it, ran up to me, flung herself onto my lap and rammed me so hard my head slammed back into a kitchen cupboard. I saw stars. Hurt too much to cry even. Maybe that was her plan all along?
Kristine |
| Talked with the vet again. He assured me the cold compresses were good. He had me check her gums and eyes describing what I saw, so we would not to have to mover her if it could be avoided - possibly causing more bleeding. He told me explicitly what to watch for and what would constitute an emergency. The doxy shourld start taking hold. If there is more bleeding, we may have to go back for another CBC (so far only her platelet count is low, everything else is ok). He told me either he, or the vet we saw Monday (there are 3 in this practice), would call tomorrow to see how Sadie is doing, but not to hesitate to call if anything changed or if I had questions. He gave me lots of information and put me at ease....at least for a little while.
Sadie is resting quietly now. It seems she is calmer with the other dogs around her...so they are all sleeping, mid-day...a miracle. Kristine, I sure do understand you sleeping with Mad. Sadie has been on a quilt by the bed with my arm over the side. If she moved, I was right there with her. Tonight though, I may be on the quilt! |
| Positive thoughts for the bleeding to stop. Do you have any of those gel packs that you can use on her nose? I like the way they adjust to the body shape, so lay it across the top and doen the sides.
For our kids at school, we try 15 minutes of ice before we even look. And remember that the drips come out of the nostrils, but the bleeding areas is further up in the nose. |
| Wow...or Duh! I can't believe I didn't think of that. I have the kind that can be put in the freezer or the microwave that I have used if a lot over the last several weeks for my sore shoulder. I have been so upset over Sadie being sick, I totally forgot about the gel pack. |
| How is Sadie today, thinking of you both and sending hugs to stressed mommy and sadie.
Hope all settles soon for you both |
| I don't have any advice... but I'm hoping the Vet figures out what is wrong and that Sadie gets to feeling better. It hurts us to watch our babies when sick and not being able to help. from me and the boys! |
| The day has been long and I fear the night even longer. My poor husband has cleaned carpet and cleaned carpet and is as worried as me about Sadie. We plan to take shifts tonight to stay right with her.
We get the blood clotted and then she sneezes or snorts the clot out and we start all over again. She has had 5 doses of doxy now which should be helping some. Fortunately, she is sleeping a lot, but continues to bleed in her sleep, just easier to work with the ice bags, gel packs, and cold wash rags. She is really being good about the whole ordeal. Gums still look nice and pink. I think the morning will bring another run to the vet. Keep us in your prayers. It hurts so much to see her like this. |
| Hang in there and keep us posted.
Kristine |
| I've noticed that with Laci too. This am she did not come into the potty room with me as she does every morning. I looked around the corner and she was sleeping. I called her name, and she got up and came over. Scared me though. Guess she had a hard night |
What an ordeal! 
I hope you get some answers and that Sadie feels better soon. |
| We did make a trip back to the vet this morning after Sadie bled most of yesterday and all night. We were suppose to take 2-3 hr. shifts, but neither of us got more than 4 hrs. sleep. We used a gel pak underneath her and an ice bag on top her snout and basically kept her lying down and quiet. Everytime it looked like we would be getting a clot she would sneeze or snort and we would start all over again. We did finally have a clot that stayed by the time we left for the vet, so it was easier to take her. I think she gave up struggling with it, or just got use to the feeling in her nose. Just having little trickles of blood occasionally.
The vet did have the report back and they are 95% sure it is ehrlichiosis canus. There are two other types of ehrlichiosis, but the e-canus was definitely the top runner. The titer was 1:2560. They did another CBC and her platelet count has bottomed out. She didn't have to much trouble though with bleeding after the CBC. Her hematacrit was right in the middle of where it should be. Now our choices: 1. Continue the doxy and add prednisone for 5 days. 2. Give an injection with some risks to kill the ehrlichiosis, followed by another injection in 2 weeks. 3. Blood transfusion, some risks of building antibodies to the new blood. Since she was clotted at the vet, she was holding her head up and was alert, they recommened to first try the prednisone, so weighing the risks of the other two, we decided to go with their recommendation. The pred is 60 mg. twice a day for 5 days. So far she has had 6 doses of doxy and 1 of the prednisone. She seems to be resting more comfortably; still little runs of occasional blood, but nothing like it has been. Just hope she can keep that clot. I hope we did the right thing. We have after hours phone numbers and a diagnostic sheet if we have to use the ER Clinic tonight. In fact, the husband of our vet is on call at the ER tonight. Hope we don't have to go though. I am not sure what I would do without this forum. When I have to be away, I want to run back to see if anyone has any other suggestions and/or comforting thoughts. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and your thoughts. |
| So sorry to hear of all the problems with Sadie. Sending her sheepie hugs and healing vibs |
| I don't know if this would work for dog, but for humans with nosebleeds that won't stop the usual treatment is Afrin nasal spray. It stops nose bleeds that cautery and packing won't stop.
Sounds weird, but it actually works most of the time. |
| Hang in there, stay positive and sending HUGE hugs for sadie.
Stay strong Mommy and you can only go by the Vets advice and try firstly the predisone to see if it does aid in the problem with sadie. Keeping all fingers and paws crossed here for you guys. |
Sending hugs and prayers to Sadie. 
I hope tonight will be more restful for all of you. |
| I used to work for an oncologist/hematologist (sorry, I know I've said this before). We used prednisone for several of our patients with very low platlet counts (30,000 instead of 175,000), It worked very well for them. We rarely had to do a transfusion. I think you made a good choice in treatment.
That is a very high dose, and appropriately so, fo your baby. Be aware of the side effects - increased appetite, increased thirst and therefore increase bathroom trips, jitterness, inability to sleep. It can also elevate the blood sugar, esecially with that dose, so you need to watch the carbs. All of these are temporary and will go away within 18 hrs of the last dose - though Sadie may need to go on a diet.
Ask the vet about the Afrin the next time you go in - I don't think the shape of the inside of a dog's will let the Afrin work, but it is a great treament on humans. When do you go back in? |
| Sending hopes that Sadie is all well soon |
| Sending Sadie hugs and kisses, hope she is feeling better soon |
Mom of 3 wrote: I used to work for an oncologist/hematologist (sorry, I know I've said this before). We used prednisone for several of our patients with very low platlet counts (30,000 instead of 175,000), It worked very well for them. We rarely had to do a transfusion. I think you made a good choice in treatment.
That is a very high dose, and appropriately so, fo your baby. Be aware of the side effects - increased appetite, increased thirst and therefore increase bathroom trips, jitterness, inability to sleep. It can also elevate the blood sugar, esecially with that dose, so you need to watch the carbs. All of these are temporary and will go away within 18 hrs of the last dose - though Sadie may need to go on a diet. With the very first dose, we could see a decrease in bleeding, and with the second dose, it had completely stopped. Thank you for let us know your professional experience...what a comfort! Sadie actually slept most of the night, and us too! She did wake at 5 am to go outside rather than her usual 6-6:30, but what a joy to see no blood and with even a little excitement in her body language. We will be watching what she eats, the amounts. She has lost a bit of weight, but no sense causing another problem to have to deal with later. I am not sure when we go back to the vet. It was left rather open ended. She is on doxy for a min. 21 days and they said they may adjust that down the road. I suspect with the titer so high, they will increase the doxy. The vets are good about calling us to check on her, so I am sure they will let us know when they need to see her again and we have the option of taking her if we feel we need more help or there are any different signs. Right now, though not out of the woods, we are so relieved to see our baby up and interested in what is going on around her. I wonder if there are others on the forum who have had experience with ehrlichiosis canus? What your experience has been and how is your sheepie doing now? |
| Sadie is doing better, bleeding has stopped. I know we are not out of the woods yet, but just want to say THANKS for the many words of encouragement, prayers, hugs, and advise. What a comfort to know you are there! Sadie and I, both send hugs!
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Woo-hoo!!! That is wonderful. 
None of mine have been "blessed" by erhlichea yet (tick country), but if it's any consolation I know of at least two Western WI OES who have. One recovered smoothly to return to his obedience and herding career and the other recovered nicely as well and went on to become a mom. Both are doing great. No long term ill effects. So relieved she is responding so well. Your vets sound wonderful. Kristine |
| So glad to hear Sadie is doing better and the bleeding has subsided.
Give your darling a huge Smooch from us and Hugs to you too
Keep us up to date to how she is progressing. At the moment all sounds so positive. |
| Sadie is doing better and has a bit of a sparkle back in her eyes. She is drinking lots of water which means more potty breaks i.e. 4 in the morning; but that's ok! I will do anything to get her well. She is wanting to be a little more active and we are still needing to keep her calm - no jumping, barking. That may become more difficult as she still has 3 days of prednisone left, but then hopefully things will return to a more normal pace with just the antibiotic. I really appreciate the encouragement and Sadie gets all the hugs sent her way. Thanks everyone! |
| Very glad to hear about her improvement. Should be behind you all very soon! |
| Any update?
And, just so you are prepared, when you stop the prednisone, she will need even more potty breaks for the first 48 hours. Prednisone makes you retain water, though it's hard to believe with all of the potty they take while on it. As soon as you stop the prednisone, they stop retaining the water. |
Mom of 3 wrote: And, just so you are prepared, when you stop the prednisone, she will need even more potty breaks for the first 48 hours. Prednisone makes you retain water, though it's hard to believe with all of the potty they take while on it. As soon as you stop the prednisone, they stop retaining the water.
Thanks for the warning! As it is she is getting me up at 4 or 5 am! Her last day of prednisone is tomorrow, so now I know what to expect. Sadie is so much better without all that bleeding. She has some sparkle back in her eys and at times wants to play, but that is short lived. She is still sleeping a lot, which for now is good. From what I understand, I think this may be a prolonged recovery. Right now, she has 21 days on antibiotic with the understanding that may be increased - days, possibly weeks. We will know more when we see the vet again. I am just so thankful she is doing as well as she is. Please continue to keep us in your thoughts and prayers. |
| More sad news! Back to the vet today. Sadie seems more lethargic and is now leaking urine. She doesn't even know it! She is just laying there and there is a big puddle. She is still going outside too, and that part seems pretty normal. This is a sheepie who has never had an accident in the house!
Now what the vet had to say...a lot! We finished 5 days of prednisone, 60 mg. twice a day, last night. It is a good thing we went back to the vet because we need to continue with decreasing doses. Somehow we didn't get the decreasing part. They want to take her down really slow, so we have 16 more days! They think the pred is what is causing the pantng and the incontinence, and that both will disappear when she is off the predisone. If anyone has had any experience with this, please let me know. The other thing they did was start her on a series of 4 iron injections. She will have to have another CBC next Tuesday and stay on the doxycyline a minimum of 60 days. Right now the doxy is 200 mg twice a day. It looks and sounds like they are treating her agressively. It helps that one of the vets had an Irish Setter who had a similar problem(Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever) and is really concerned about Sadie and very involved with her treatment. He told us she has clinical signs of Stage 3 Ehrlichiosis Canus which means it has attacked the bone marrow (reason for iron injections) and we could have recurring bouts! He said he feels optimistic. Really sad news! All this from one tick bite...a tick we never saw, and perhaps even before we got her 1 1/2 yrs ago. Right now, we are just trying to keep her calm, see that she gets a little exercise to keep her muscle tone, and make the daily runs to the vet. It is really difficult. Especially to see our clown like this. She is my love! . . . and my husband is nearly as attached as me. I have done a lot of crying lately. It is hard on both of us, but especially Sadie. Please keep us in your prayers. |
Mophead wrote: Now what the vet had to say...a lot! We finished 5 days of prednisone, 60 mg. twice a day, last night. It is a good thing we went back to the vet because we need to continue with decreasing doses. Somehow we didn't get the decreasing part. They want to take her down really slow, so we have 16 more days! They think the pred is what is causing the pantng and the incontinence, and that both will disappear when she is off the predisone. If anyone has had any experience with this, please let me know.
Had experience with Predisone and your vet is completely correct, you can't just stop the dosage "Cold Turkey" They have to come off the predisone gradually over a period time. Panting is normal on it and of course the leaks too as the water consumption while on the drug often increases. Had exactly the same from my girl when she was on it for cancer treatment. She would lay there and leak and never did that in her life, had to monitor the water consumption to help her not flood overnight. Panting is also a side effect that can happen and also extra hunger as well. So sadie should be fine and no leaks once she is slowly weaned off the predisone. My previous girl had months on the stuff and it took months to gradually reduce the dosage down to nothing.
Stay positive, I am sure sadie will overcome all this and of course sending more prayers her way  |
| Silly me, I just assumed you were already tappering down the dose.
Leaking bladder due to the increased water consumed is common and usually goes away. But also watch for signs of a UTI - prednisone can raise the blood sugar, which can lead to an infection. Good news from the vet visit! Yeah! |
| Just want to update the forum on Sadie. She is doing better, holding her head up, not passing out, and appears more alert to her surroundings. We have completed the 4th day of decreasing the prednisone; 12 more to go. The leaking urine has stopped...just like some of you said with the decreasing pred. She is still sleeping a lot, but overall is so much better than the last 2 1/2 weeks. Our week was spent with trips to the vet 4 out of 5 days. She has had 3 iron injections and is on Lixotinic Liquid 15cc 2 times a day along with the other meds. We go back Tuesday for another CBC to check platelets. Things are looking up; still a long way to go. We are exhausted, but Sadie is so worth it! |
| UPDATE: Sadie's CBC is slightly improved. He said it looks like all the meds are beginning to work and she is beginning to fight on her own. Her platelet count is back to 91. It was 88 when she started hemorrhaging and bottomed out after that. We are to continue the doxy and lixotinic. We still have a few days left on the decreasing prednisone. If everything goes well, we go back in a month for another CBC.
Does anyone know what the norm is for platelet count? And is there anything else we can be doing to build her up from the anemia. Her weight is down from 88 to 76.4. She only lost 2 oz. the last 5 days so that may be leveling off. She is still drinking a lot of water and eating good. We are seeing bits of the ol' Sadie. A little barking (never thought I would be thankful for that, but I am) and a few smiles. Each day seems better. Thanks again for those who have responded to our needs. All the information and the encouragement has certainly helped. We are not out of the woods yet, but we are on our way! |
| How's Sadie?
Best wishes for good health. Mophead wrote: UPDATE: Sadie's CBC is slightly improved. He said it looks like all the meds are beginning to work and she is beginning to fight on her own. Her platelet count is back to 91. It was 88 when she started hemorrhaging and bottomed out after that. We are to continue the doxy and lixotinic. We still have a few days left on the decreasing prednisone. If everything goes well, we go back in a month for another CBC. Does anyone know what the norm is for platelet count? And is there anything else we can be doing to build her up from the anemia. Her weight is down from 88 to 76.4. She only lost 2 oz. the last 5 days so that may be leveling off. She is still drinking a lot of water and eating good. We are seeing bits of the ol' Sadie. A little barking (never thought I would be thankful for that, but I am) and a few smiles. Each day seems better. Thanks again for those who have responded to our needs. All the information and the encouragement has certainly helped. We are not out of the woods yet, but we are on our way! |
| I read somewhere that 600,000 is a normal count for dogs, compared to 150,000 to 400,000 for humans. I have no clue what the lower end of normal is for a canine.
There are many people walking around with a platlet count of 90,000 and they are doing just fine. Their normal platlet count is always just a little lower than what the average person has. I run around 100,000 and do just fine. |
| We are seeing good days and not-so-perky days; nothing as bad as it was. We have almost finished the decreasing dosages of prednisone, so that part is good. Still on the doxy and lixotinic liquid along with modified diet to include liver and sweet potatoes. We go back in three weeks for another CBC unless we see a need to take her sooner. Things are looking up, but are told it will be a long haul.
If anyone knows of anything else we could be doing, please let us know. |
Quote: I wonder if there are others on the forum who have had experience with ehrlichiosis canus?
Only second hand. When I was leaving rescue the lady who took over took in a dog from the Clovis shelter.....next to Texas border. New Year's Eve the dog started bleeding from the nose. They live in rural NM and had to rush to Albuquerque Emergency Vet.......Happy New Year! Back home their vet was familiar with E.c. tho it was and still is uncommon here. Much what you are going through. This was....4 years ago and the dog pulled through and doing OK. She has some residual arthritis like symptoms, severe E.c. does that. So there is light at the end of the tunnel for you and Sadie. Just hang in there. (Oh yeah, she kept the dog, didn't put it thru adoption). |
| Sorry I can't help with any advice, but we wanted to send positive thoughts to you and Sadie. |
Mom of 3 wrote: I read somewhere that 600,000 is a normal count for dogs, compared to 150,000 to 400,000 for humans. I have no clue what the lower end of normal is for a canine.
approx 250,000-500,000 So sorry to hear about Sadie. We are currently on a monthly tapering schedule of Prednisone for Bogart who was diagnosed with Lyme/Rocky Mountain Spotted fever in June. His platelet dipped to 26,000 (not a typo) upon admission to the hospital at that time. Our last count was 279,000 2 weeks ago. He is also on pepsid. We have been up at night faithfully at 3:30 am or 5am. His appetite is improved. If you still see symptoms on the Doxy, your vet test for the RMSF. It took about a week for the result to come back. Our hearts go out to you, these ticks are a nightmare with the diseases they are carrying. Also, I would not use Afrin or nasal sprays , you do not want to mask the symptoms. It was the nosebleed that brought us into the Vet Er, and thankfully it did, his platelets were one step from critical. We have learned alot--including that your sheepie can have more than one tick bourne disease at the same time  |
| It seems like several dogs became very ill from tick bites this summer. Were the dogs that got sick on flea and tick preventative? Would a flea and tick preventative have prevented or minimized the symptioms, as the product name suggests? |
wjsVT wrote: It seems like several dogs became very ill from tick bites this summer. Were the dogs that got sick on flea and tick preventative? Would a flea and tick preventative have prevented or minimized the symptioms, as the product name suggests?
Our guy is on Frontline year round. We are in a high risk area for Lyme. The tick and flea preventatives are not a prevention nor will they minimize symptoms. Even with careful checking for tick , it only takes a few hours (24h) for an infection to transfer. In our area the vets feel the Frontline is lasting about 3 wks, and can not be reapplied except monthly. |
zahra wrote: wjsVT wrote: It seems like several dogs became very ill from tick bites this summer. Were the dogs that got sick on flea and tick preventative? Would a flea and tick preventative have prevented or minimized the symptioms, as the product name suggests? Our guy is on Frontline year round. We are in a high risk area for Lyme. The tick and flea preventatives are not a prevention nor will they minimize symptoms. Even with careful checking for tick , it only takes a few hours (24h) for an infection to transfer. In our area the vets feel the Frontline is lasting about 3 wks, and can not be reapplied except monthly. my vet has had me reappl y it as often as every two weeks and when I was in FL this week at my sister's vet they said every three weeks. |
| Frontline advises monthly only and is not supporting reapplying
sooner. Some vets are doing their own recommendations, but its up to owners if they feel comfortable with a sooner application. |
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