HELP!!!I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO GET RID OF MY SHEEPIE
It has been awhile-if you were around last year, you may have helped me save my OES when he had bloat-he underwent emergency surgery & has since been great-Thanks again. I now have a problem with my other younger OES. Just since this spring- Every time there is thunder or lightening my Teddy has become HORRIBLY afraid-shakes, pants gets the nerves going and is followed by diarrhea EVERYWHERE in his room. He clears the gate without touching it and it is terrible. I have been up with him since 1:30 this morning-cleaning, consoling, standing out in the rain with him, then cleaning again. I had to go to work and on my way in my husband calls and asks what to use to clean up AGAIN! HELP my husband will not tolerate this much longer. We are afraid to leave the house if it is to rain for fear of what we may find when we return!!!!! ANY suggestion Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!! |
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| You do not say how young this OES is. Many puppies go through a fear stage and this may just be that...a stage.
Heart is 14 months old and she definatley does not like storms. When they begin she goes straight to the bathroom and curls up around the toilet bowl. Although she does not shake or have loose bowels, I can tell she is very upset. I don't coddle her when this happens. I have read that this only reinforces the behaviour. I tell her in a normal voice...'you're ok.' Have you taken her to the vet to make sure she has no physical problems? Have you talked to your vet about possible ways to help her? Maybe a behaviourist? They may be able to teach you steps to desensitve him. Have you tried to search this site for topics related to fear of storms? Quote: HELP my husband will not tolerate this much longer.
I guess I don't understand this.....tolerate what???? A young dog who has that strong of a fear really can't help his reaction. I am sure there will be many people on this site with more suggestions on how to help this poor puppy. If you decide to give this pup up, please consider rescue. |
| He is 4 and this is new since this spring. Because of his normal behavior I do believe this is behavioral and not medical. I am going to contact the vet though & I have read about stress relief drops I may try. As for my husband -he loves Teddy but for the sake of the house & for poor Teddys health ( I'm afraid hes gonna have a nervous breakdown if thats possible) I am reaching out for all suggestions. OES rescue would be my ONLY and last resort. |
| If he is 4, then it is not a stage.
If there is not physical reason for his behaviour, your vet may be able to give you the name of a good behavourist in your area. They are trained to help you deal with issues. ( I had to consult a behaviourist for my Beardie, Cosmo. He was from a BYB and has alot of fear issues. The behaviourist gave me suggestions on how to widen his world. He helped me so much in understanding Cos and helping him work through alot of the problem areas.) I know there is a way to desensitive him to storms. It is a slow process, but very well worth it. Good luck! and please keep us posted...  |
| My brothers dog has a fear of storms and the vet suggested a benadryl when there is going to be a storm. I guess that helps sedate him but the point is that you could try medication that would calm him. The diahrea is only a symptom of getting so worked up.
Also, you mentioned him clearing the gate. Have you thought about investing in a crate? For his safety, when he is afraid he would not be able to run about while he is so distressed. Good luck. He needs your commitment now more than ever. |
| OK, the bad news: if it's thunder phobia, there is no quick and easy cure. But first order of business: please do not console him or acknowledge his fear. Keep him safe, be calm and very confident and very matter of fact yourself, but do not console him whatsoever or you're feeding into his fears. (which in canine parlance translates into: "OH MY GOD!!! Mom's upset TOO!!! This must be TERRIBLE. We're all going to perish!!! AHHHHHHGH") We're all naturally inclined to do so because we can tell the dog is beside himself with fear and it's a natural response on our part, but it really doesn't help him whatsoever. Quite the opposite. Right now, he needs a leader, not his Mommy.
Please try hard to keep ANY emotions under wraps even if it's 3 in the morning, you've been up the last four nights, he's just pooped wall to wall and now you're going to have to clean it up AGAIN, you're husband is having a meltdown and even though you know it's not Teddy's fault and he has no control whatsoever over his behavior, you really do want to strangle him. Also a natural stress response on our part. Breaathe deeeply. You can handle this.... The fact that it (apparently) came on so strong so fast makes me wonder about a trigger. What's his history? Has he had his thyroid checked? Do you have an ongoing relationship with his breeder? Is s/he of any help? Some people have used Rescue Remedy with decent results, but I'd be consulting a behavioralist (How far are you from Madison, WI? Though you should have good people in IL as well) or at the very least talking to my vet about a safe medication to take the edge off of him enough that you can work on his problem. He needs to be desensitized to storms which is hard to do in prime storm season (the storms yesterday were bad, weren't they?  ) But the good news is that there are only a few more weeks left of major storm risk, so if you can all get through these next few weeks, there's hope, yes?
Kristine |
SheepieMommy wrote: Also, you mentioned him clearing the gate. Have you thought about investing in a crate? For his safety, when he is afraid he would not be able to run about while he is so distressed.
A couple of thoughts on crates: (1) is he crate trained? If not, she needs to do that first, or it will just add to his stress (note to people getting puppies: please do yourself a favor and crate train them now so you always have that to fall back on in case of travel, medical issues, etc. They don't (and shouldn't) have to spend their lives there, just feel comfortable in one) (2) if he's really panicked, he could hurt himself getting out of the crate. Frantic dogs and wire crates are an especially bad mix. That said, a vari/airline type crate might be a blessing for him. More of it is plastic, so less wires to break his teeth and worse on, and it's darker, so he might actually feel safer being able to hide in a "den". It's trial and error, but worth a try. There are two main triggers in thunderstorms (they think): sound and something electrical that affects certain dogs but not others. In the latter case, and I once babysat some friends' dog who they warned me reacted like this, the dog senses a storm hours before we can and will often head for the bathtub, jump in and hunker down in there. There are various theories as to why this is, but no real understanding yet as far as I know. What I do know is that it's a well documented behavioral response in a number of dogs. She'd pant and lord knows she wasn't happy, but hunkered down there she could deal with it at least. Kristine |
Quote: will often head for the bathtub, jump in and hunker down in there. There are various theories as to why this is, but no real understanding yet as far as I know. What I do know is that it's a well documented behavioral response in a number of dogs. She'd pant and lord knows she wasn't happy, but hunkered down there she could deal with it at least.
They must have met Heart........  
She doesn't get in the tub................YET...but I am waiting....
I have often wondered if I should be doing something for her, to her when this happens. I have left her alone up to this point, figuring that she knows how to calm herself this way. I may be wrong??? (But she seems to 'weather' the storms being in there. She seems content to just wrap herself around the bowl. NO shaking, NO whining--It's just, at storm times, the TB IS her BEST friend!!!!!) |
sheepieshake wrote: I have often wondered if I should be doing something for her, to her when this happens. I have left her alone up to this point, figuring that she knows how to calm herself this way. I may be wrong???
Nope. You're exactly right and probably an instinctively savvy dog person. That's rare! The rest of us have to work at it. Pat yourself on the back.
Kristine |
| Kristine, as always has fantastic advise....thank you so much for always coming in with great statagies to try. My OES Violet is almost 6 yrs old. About 6 wks ago, we moved into a new home, which is new, of course, to all the dogs. All of the dogs have made a great transition, but for the thunderstorms that we get everyday between 2/5 each day. We are in Florida in our rainy season right now. The storms are pretty intense.
Before the move, Violet never seemed to be affected by the storms..but for some reason, they upset her now. I can tell by her body language that a storm is approaching without even looking outside. Little things about her enviorment has changed: the house is still one story with "modern" high ceilings as was the other house. The differences are more squire footage, on a lake, and not enough furniture to fill the rooms to cut down on the vibration brought on by the thunder. Violet has always had sensitive ears. What I have done, instead of buying more furniture (lol) is I notice she is more comfortable when the storm is comeing on to go into my bedroom. I don't have a problem with that since I do leave the bedroom door open all the time anyway, but she wants me to come and lay on the bed also. She on the floor, me on the bed. If I'm out in the house doing something she will keep coming up to me and talking that sheepie talk that she uses when she NEEDS me. Sidebar: when my daughter, who is disabled, is having a bad time in her room and needs me, Violet uses this same "speak" to let me know that Amy needs me. Sometimes she alerts Amy before Amy even knows that she is going to have a problem. So I know when Violet "speaks" I have to respond and follow her without hesitation. Anyway, back to the storms... with the lake in the back and not a whole lot to absorb some of the loud thunder I am trying not to make her dependant on me when it storms. I act normal, and I'm not afraid of storms having lived through 4 Hurricanes, but we are in the lightening capital of the world. I comfort Violet with words and try to distract her with play and other things. I know we'll make it through this, thank God I don't have the "poo" fear problem going on. However, I do have an Aussie that is afraid to go out in the backyard in the dark....which is another thread.lol The Crate/Den idea sounds like it is what your dog needs...That is what my cat Pearl does, when a storm is coming in off to a hiding place she goes. Good luck and I feel your pain (on knees cleaning poo) |
Mad Dog wrote: sheepieshake wrote: I have often wondered if I should be doing something for her, to her when this happens. I have left her alone up to this point, figuring that she knows how to calm herself this way. I may be wrong??? Nope. You're exactly right and probably an instinctively savvy dog person. That's rare! The rest of us have to work at it. Pat yourself on the back. Kristine I don't know if I have ever disagreed with Kristine before - but... I would talk to the vet about either rescue remedy (OTC) or using some other medication for Heart. even if she seems comfortable hiding out she is hiding out from fear and it could escalate. having something to calm them so they can be relaxed during the storm allows you to work on whatever the behaviorist suggests so they learn to relax during the storm. We used to have an Eskie who hid under the claw foot tub during the storms - although she didn't start until she was 5 or 6. Right now only one of ours - the Irish setter reacts at all to storms. if its going to be a bad day and I can't be home we give him a little something to take the edge off - I don't like to think of him that upset and tense and basically alone cause the other three have no idea what his problem is. |
| I have had good results with Acepromozine but you must make sure you have the correct dosage. Too much and the dog can get way too groggy and I know some people have talked about too much even killing dogs. It doesn't work for every dog and some people do not like using it but I also had a dog with an extreme fear of thunderstorms and it really just helped take the edge off for her so she could relax. Talk to your vet about and ask him or her how she feels about it and if it might be a good choice for your dog. |
ButtersStotch wrote: I have had good results with Acepromozine but you must make sure you have the correct dosage. Too much and the dog can get way too groggy and I know some people have talked about too much even killing dogs. It doesn't work for every dog and some people do not like using it but I also had a dog with an extreme fear of thunderstorms and it really just helped take the edge off for her so she could relax. Talk to your vet about and ask him or her how she feels about it and if it might be a good choice for your dog.
that is what Cedric takes - I give him half a dose for storms. |
Quote: I would talk to the vet about either rescue remedy (OTC) or using some other medication for Heart. even if she seems comfortable hiding out she is hiding out from fear and it could escalate. having something to calm them so they can be relaxed during the storm allows you to work on whatever the behaviorist suggests so they learn to relax during the storm.
I am watching her carefully and if it does escalate, I will not be above contacting the behaviourist I used for Cos. An interesting side: On Sunday morning, I took Heart out looking for cans....(PLEASE...DON't ask.... ) and a terrible thunderstorm came out of nowhere. SHE WASN'T affected by it at all. She just sat there looking out the window! I 'tested' her, placed my hand on her to see if she was shaking, you really can't tell with all the dense fluff!!! And she wasn't. I asked her to 'give me five' and she did, which tells me she was focused enough to listen and follow the command.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT!!!! Maybe as soon as a storm comes through, we should run to the car and go for a ride... |
kerry wrote: [I don't know if I have ever disagreed with Kristine before - but... <snip>
I would talk to the vet about either rescue remedy (OTC) or using some other medication for Heart. even if she seems comfortable hiding out she is hiding out from fear and it could escalate. having something to calm them so they can be relaxed during the storm allows you to work on whatever the behaviorist suggests so they learn to relax during the storm. . Disagreement is allowed And my own vet would entirely agree with you.
I don't have a lot of faith in Rescue Remedy. The only critter I've ever seen it work on is my obedience instructor who used to give herself some before going into the ring. She mentioned that there is alchohol in it, and that this was probably the effective ingredient as far as she was concerned (I've never bothered to verify the ingredients...anyone?) I countered that in that case why didn't she just take a swig of brandy, but I supposed the RR was more socially acceptable. Of course, if there is alchohol in there, it would be minute.
My only hands-on, long term experience with thunder phobia was Belle. She had to be in the same room with me. As long as some part of her body was in contact with mine, she was calm. I used to tease her about her faith in my ability to keep her safe. Other than that, I made sure she could be close, but I ignored her. Over time it was OK just to be in the same room with me. I know they say that these things often escalate over the years, but she's actually gotten calmer. Then again, we figure her fear may come from the roof over the kennel part of her breeder's house being blown off by straightline winds when she was a puppy and home alone could have contributed, and perhaps with time she's come to realize that the roof will probably stay where it is. That may be slightly different than a more organic noise phobia. In Heart's case, she's learned to cope. Nothing wrong with medicating her if she seems to need it. But I guess I like to give a dog a chance to work through an issue on their own first if they aren't too stressed by it, because I think that kind of challenge builds resilience. But the opposite approach could work just fine too. My big kudos to Val was for not babying Heart by sitting there hugging her, stroking her and whispering soothing "it's gonna be OKs" in her ear, which is oh-so-tempting to do. What's reassuring to us some times has the opposite effect on a dog who instead often take their cues from our confidence. Kristine |
sheepieshake wrote: I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT!!!! Maybe as soon as a storm comes through, we should run to the car and go for a ride...
My mother always said it was the safest place - she had to be right about something  |
kerry wrote: sheepieshake wrote: I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT!!!! Maybe as soon as a storm comes through, we should run to the car and go for a ride... My mother always said it was the safest place - she had to be right about something Actually, both Kerry's Mom and Heart (and my Dad) are probably right on target. According to my Dad, the rubber wheels in contact with the ground has an insulating effect (is that the correct term? - biology oriented person who only got through physics thanks to the math part ), meaning lightening could theoretical hit your vehicle and you'd still be fine.
The theory is that dogs like my friends' Jenny and Heart, who are porcelin (?) huggers/hunkerers, are experiencing small shocks due to the electricity in the air during a storm. I don't know (if this theory is even correct) if only some dogs experience this for some odd reason or if some dogs are simply more affected by it, but the further theory goes that they somehow ground themselves (again, a physics person needs to set my terminology straight ) and somehow learned to avoid the shocks that way.
Of course, IF this theory is correct, we can all look forward to Val bringing a spare toilet to Sheepiepalooza next year in case of storms. Personally I suggest she put wheels on it so she can take it with her on our tour of the shopping district. I want to be in her party when we stop to eat for lunch
Kristine |
| With thunderstorms, which we usually get frequently, I wonder about the change in electrical charge in the air....
Maudie, our first Sheepie, used to close herself in the bathroom. Tile floor, so maybe not letting the charge build up? We always knew where she would be during a storm. |
Mad Dog wrote: The theory is that dogs ................ are experiencing small shocks due to the electricity in the air during a storm.
That explains Heart's hair. I always say she looks like she put her paw in an electrical socket. |
| Well our storms have passed & my husband has not called again so all must be well. You all have great suggestions and I am also going to call my breeder because I am still in contact with him. We took Teddy and Earnie (who is deaf) to the kennel prior to vaca in May & we had terrible storms while we were gone. This was his first experience away from home & now that I think about it I don't remember him doing this prior to.
So there may be my reason. P.S. He is still a big chewer also which I am sure is from boredom. Any toys that he won't destroy???-I tried the kongs but he is not a real big fan & any plush toy he would devour. !! I know- we have issues!!!! |
TwoSheepies wrote: . P.S. He is still a big chewer also which I am sure is from boredom. Any toys that he won't destroy???-I tried the kongs but he is not a real big fan & any plush toy he would devour. !! I know- we have issues!!!!
Hon, we ALL have issues
Sybil is my pathological chewer. I get her shank bones. I should be buying them by the case. She also gets easily bored. The boarding kennel/storm combo could very well be your culprit. That would bode well for getting him past this. It's probably not genetic, it's fairly recent, you have a winter to let him get past the experience...it'll still take time, but you can get through this. Kristine |
| Mad Dog wrote:
Quote: Of course, IF this theory is correct, we can all look forward to Val bringing a spare toilet to Sheepiepalooza next year in case of storms. Personally I suggest she put wheels on it so she can take it with her on our tour of the shopping district. I want to be in her party when we stop to eat for lunch Kristine...you know how I so value your opinions and suggestions so I am going to have to start looking around for a spare TB...I CAN tell you to reserve your spot to be in my 'party'..I plan on storing the booze in the bowl for easy access!!!!! SheepieMommy wrote: Quote: That explains Heart's hair. I always say she looks like she put her paw in an electrical socket.
(Heart's response: momma told me people would be jealous of my thick, dense fluff!!!!)
(gosh you leave to do a little work...at work....and come back to find people 'talking' about you....)SHEESH!!!!! |
sheepieshake wrote: Kristine...you know how I so value your opinions and suggestions so I am going to have to start looking around for a spare TB...I CAN tell you to reserve your spot to be in my 'party'..I plan on storing the booze in the bowl for easy access!!!!!
I knew I could count on you to maximize efficiency!!! I'm THERE! (Kerry? Are you in? Judy?  )
My opinions will only become more interesting, profound and valuable for each dunk into Heart's private Loo-on-wheels, I'm sure...
KB |
hell yes I am there - I do believe the tank is very useful in keeping alcohol stored and cool 
ever read the attack of the Kudzu queens? (i think that was the title.) I can see this scenario as part of that story. we can be her court |
| Joan and I took my giant, dominant, fearless Jake to a fireworks show (a HUGE mistake he was petrified) and after that he was petrified by thunderstorms.
Prior to that we used to sit in the garage with the door open watching the storm pass by; after that he cowered in the corner shaking terribly and drooling with a god-awful look of fear on his face. I think he was 5 or 6 when we went to the show; he passed at 13. |
| Our ten year old sheepie, Portage, had storm phobias. It started suddenly, about two or three years ago.
When he first started freaking out he flipped. He climbed as high as possible, tried to jump out windows, cried, barked, threw up, shook, you name it...he did it. Lots of messes, and some very dangerous behaviour. He once tried to get out a second story window. Thank goodness we got to that window first. Here's what we did... The vet checked him out and said there were no physical problems. He prescribed a sedative. The first time a storm was coming we sedated him. It turned out to be fairly heavy (no way to judge until he tried it) and he slept right through. The next storm we used half a dose and he was pretty out of it - very zen. Of course, I didn't like the idea of drugging him every time there was a storm...and you can't ever predict when one might hit while you are away from home anyway...so we did the following... We continued with the meds, but in decreasing doses as time went on. When we were home and a storm came up we didn't comfort him, but went into a room with no windows, turned the TV up (he's used to being a couch potato), and pretended nothing at all was out of the ordinary. In time he stopped freaking out altogether. And we haven't used the meds since. I think we used about eight or nine doses in total. I don't think we could have gotten this under control for Portage without the medication. He was very much at a crisis point initially, but with just a little sedation he was able to make it through a few storms successfully, and that really seemed to build his confidence quickly. I can't say he likes storms now. But he's fine. The other night he nudged me when some thunder cracked and I believe I rolled over and held his paw (weird thing I always do) and we both fell back to sleep pretty quickly. Hang in there. I know how awful this can be. The first time he was home alone during a storm (during his peak anxiety period) he messed all over our bed, blankets, etc. and we found him curled up in the closet, panting hysterically. He's come a long way. I never thought I'd be pro drugs for something like this, but once you've been through it firsthand with a terrified dog, you realize that there's nothing wrong with using something to help him immediately so that you can work on some long term solutions. Good luck to you all! Tracie, Portage, and evil Hudson |
Ron wrote: Joan and I took my giant, dominant, fearless Jake to a fireworks show (a HUGE mistake he was petrified) and after that he was petrified by thunderstorms.
Prior to that we used to sit in the garage with the door open watching the storm pass by; after that he cowered in the corner shaking terribly and drooling with a god-awful look of fear on his face. I think he was 5 or 6 when we went to the show; he passed at 13. Now that I think about it, this fear Violet seems to have came on around the Fourth of July. precious to then she wasn't afraid of storms. You can imagine all the fireworks that the neighbors did over the lake. Anyway, when the storm came through yesterday she did much better. |
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