At a bit of a loss with aggresive "play"
So Casey has been with us for over 2 weeks now and last Wednesday we had an incident that worried me. He's still doing the thing where he takes the leash in his mouth and starts growling but it escalates into jumping at us growling and biting. Now he's not biting really hard but it's a bite and it's got quite a snap to it, combined with the jumping and growling it's not cool. Last Friday we had a trainer come in who came highly recommended (the local humane society recommends her for their rescue dogs) She spent three hours with us and we learned alot but unfortunately the outside part came at the very end. When she was illustrating how to teach him to walk with a loose leash he did the thing where he bites at the leash and starts growling and she corrected him and he went at her jumping and growling and biting. She used the leash to "ground" him and then corrected him firmly and calmly and he eventually settled down but when she started to try and teach the lesson again he started up again more aggressively with the growling jumping and biting. She grabbed him by the scruff of the neck with each hand and loudly and firmly said "Enough" It really didn't have much effect and she told us afterwards that Casey has no concept of boundaries and to be very wary of doing anything similar to what she did. She said his temperament is closer to a boxer, in that he doesn't back down. She thinks Casey wasn't really walked very much by the previous owner and gets over excited when we are outside and then goes into either "Fight, Flight or Goof Off" mode and in Casey's case he fights. She suggested we keep to our yard and work on the loose leash stuff (which you'll remember triggers his "play/aggression" So Saturday morning instead of our 30 minute drag around the neighborhood we had a 20 minute soul crushing session where the dog I've waited so long to get, jumped, growled at me and bit me 4 times (3 times at my arms, once my right butt-cheek, I can't tell you how vulnerable that makes you feel) When I emailed the trainer to see what I should do she said distract him/try to calm him before the behavior escalates and avoid the confrontation as much as possible. This morning we almost had a good twenty minutes with no escalation but tonight when my husband went out with in the yard he was horrible again. I saw Casey jump up and at full spring his head is taller then my 6'1 husbands. He was barking/growling and jumping up trying to bite at his shoulders. I'm so concerned and at a total loss. This is WAY beyond anything we have experience with. The other issue I'm seeing is that before we walked Casey about 30 minutes in the morning and an hour at night. Now we do twenty minutes in the morning and 20 minutes at night in the yard. Not that we sought out doggy company before but I'm worried we are really isolating him but his behavior is so out of hand I don't trust him/us to be able to control him outside of the yard. We are thinking that the previous owner may have really really rough housed with Casey as a pup and then to end the rough housing sent Casey to his crate. On Monday when he was too excited I tried this and he went into his crate, no bark no whimper, not a sound till I let him out 10 minutes later. Tonight same deal he was too wild in the house so we thought we'd try it and same result. So I think we uncovered a bit of history but I'm not sure how to move forward. When he isn't in the overexcited state he is a sweet good natured dog. I'm really worried we are in over our heads. I think the behavior starts as aggressive play and then spills over into more of an attack. I'm sure the rough play is a learned behavior but how do we un-learn it? |
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| I am so sorry that you are dealing with this.
I am no expert, but I think you are doing everything you should be doing... Is the person who came to you highly recommended a trainer or a behaviourist? Will she possibly return for private lessons? I know when Cosmo came to usat 6 months old, we had a behaviourist to evaluate him.....had never seen a car, been on a walk, saw anyone except his own family and he was a mess!!! The behavourist helped us understand and deal with his limitations. There are many people here that I am sure can give you alot of sound advice...I can only give you my support. Please keep us posted on Casey's progress and Good Luck!!!! |
| Same here I am way out of my depth. I would like you totally not know what to do. I would try to contact an expert again, either the same one or different person. Really got no ideas. hope you get sorted soon it must be heartbreaking for you. Please keep us updated and wish you lots of luck and love. xx |
| I've heard it said that the leash is viewed as an extension of your hand, so when a dog shows aggression toward a leash, it's aggression toward you. Also, he's showing aggression in many other ways too (quite directly) from your post.
I'm wondering if it's a play for dominance. What I would try (not that I'm an expert or anything) is going really overboard on every little thing to show you are the boss. That is, make him sit when you put down the food, and wait for your ok to eat it. No attention unless YOU initiate it. Always insist you go through doorways first and the furniture is off limits to him. Make him defer to you for just about everything. In other words YOU hold all the resources and thus you are the leader of the pack. It sounds to me like the leash issues, and the biting/snarling during walks are not really aggressive play so much as they are challenges to your authority. I think you may have to look at a whole bunch of little ways throughout the entire day to show YOU are the leader of the pack. Also, in the house (when there's no stress) work like crazy on sit. Then, when you are sensing that he's going to lose it while on the leash (outside on the street or in the backyard) redirect to sit (with a treat that you, the leader of the pack, holds over him) over and over again. When he's really one hundred percent with sit it might look ridiculous to outsiders for you guys to sit every few steps, but it could be the thing you need to really redirect the behaviour and break the momentum of it once you sense it's coming. We had some aggression issues with our first sheepie. He started being very grouchy with other dogs and other people. We redid the "I'm the boss" thing at home, and I also worked on remaining perfectly calm. Turned out that whenever someone was coming up to us on the street, I was instinctively tightening up on his leash, which put him on the defensive and caused all sorts of stress for him which resulted in him defending me. I don't know if you guys are sending out messages that are cueing him to be stressed, but I sure was, and getting that under control sure helped us all. I don't know if any of this will help, but you might want to try some of it. I also strongly second the advice you've already gotten to look for someone who is a behaviourist to come out. I'm not a hundred percent sure the person you've already met with called it quite right. A dog who isn't used to walking on a leash can have any number of issues, but I don't think they'd automatically be aggression based. I think misbehaving would be the most likely response (tugging, sitting down, thrashing, etc). This kind of response from your dog seems more like a challenge to your authority, in my opinion. Of course, these are just some thoughts on my part. I wish you all the best of luck. Keep us posted! Tracie (The Tired), Portage (The Perpetually Good) and Hudson (Aspiring World Dominator, who must be thwarted at every turn) |
| Inside the house things are *reasonable* he still gets a little too excited but he will sit and lay down for us. We make him sit and wait for food and he does this pretty well. We are first through the doors and he isn't allowed upstairs or on the furniture. That being said I wouldn't argue about the fight for dominance thing. After my husband came back inside after their evening "session" Casey was acting almost afraid of him but outside is a different story. The trainer is also a behaviorist. Casey isn't shy of hands but after he gets too excited and we get him to sit he seems to scoot back about 4 feet before he sits. We are wondering if that is because he's "rebelling" (I'll sit but I'm gonna do it where I want) or maybe because the previous owner corrected him very aggresively so he wants to be out of reach?
The man seemed nice enough and used to walk with Casey on a gentle leader type thing, but Casey always pulled on it (which we've learned is incorrect) maybe the pulling made walks really uncomfortable for him and it created a love-hate relationship with walks and now that we walk him without one he goes a little crazy with the extra freedom and previous bad association? Yeah, that "wushing" sound your hearing is me grasping at straws ...  |
Put the straws away and congratulations on your 8 week old puppy in a one year old's body!!! 
Honestly, as I was reading this, and having just spent the last 4 weeks with what was when she came to me an 8 week old puppy, I thought, oh, my, this sounds so familiar. I wonder why? Because much of what you're describing is how puppies start out until you teach them the rules. Usually they get it in a week or two. Your boy sounds like a poster boy for arrested development 
Despite the fact that you are now dealing with this nuisance behavior in a large dog instead of a puppy, if his bite inhibition is well developed, it's not as scary as you think. What did the behaviorist say on that count? The boundaries issue, not knowing them, sounds spot on too. That would make it not dominance, but ignorance. A lot of dogs that are surrendered to rescue in his age range fall into that category. Nobody took the time to explain the rules when the dog was a true puppy, or they thought naughty was cute, and here you are, 50-60 additional pounds later, and not so cute. Eventually, as his boisterous behavior became more physically annoying, there's a pretty good chance he got confined to his crate. I'm guessing here, but the story is a familar one. Pam's Garfunkle had spent a year crated in the garage because by age one he was impossible to live with and was relegated to the garage. They took care of him, they just couldn't deal with him physically. With any dog who's using teeth inaapropriately, even if so far in a very inhibited way, I'd still want professional help. Easy for me to sit here and chuckle at the whirling dervish imagery (and imagine his energy channeled into something useful like agility...   )
One of the challenges you'll have is burning off his excess energy since you don't want to do it in a way that reinforces the naughty behavior. Basic obedience exercises will help a lot - the mental energy expended during a training sesssion shouldn't be underestimated. But at his age he still needs to run. Do you happen to have access to any large, very dog savvy, yet still playful dogs he can play with on a regular basis? It would need to be a dog who is physically his equal and mentally his superior, and who is basically tolerant of him to the point of not ripping him to shreds, but good at getting the point across that his puppy license has expired and he needs to shape up, thank you very much. A bitch who has had a litter and was an excellent mom and really loves puppies comes to mind. I know, not too easy to come by. I let my other dogs do a lot of the dirty work for me because they're so much better at it. Oh, and the backing up to sit. He either got rewarded for that position or there's something in your body language pushing him back. Could even be a physical thing. Is he trying to make eye contact with you when he sits? Toss the dominance theories: he's not plotting world domination and he's not being passive aggressive (I'll sit when I'm good and ready!  ). Dogs are much simpler than that. They do what works to get them what they want. Simple. Chances are he's a dog who's had no boundaries and your job is to teach him what they are, as well as some self-control. Apart from the riding in the car nicely issue, which can be a challenge, he sounds like he could be a lot of fun. But it's no fun to have a large dog you don't know well behave like a teeny bopper canine terrorist, so I can definitely understand your trepidation.
Kristine |
| Ah the solution! Ship dog to Kristine and let her brood tame this wild child.
Jack wasn't as bad as your pup, but he too was a wild puppy in an adult body. It took awhile but we worked it out to where he's a great dog. Yes, he growls if I come too close to his food bowl but now I can remove it without risking my body parts. The other day he grabbed husband's chicken bones and husband was able to retrieve them!! and not rely of me, the Drill Sargent to intercede. Amazing. So I offer no solution, just don't give up. You have to remain calm, not yell or be mad......but work through this. There's a great dog in there, but he has a lot of issues he must work through. |
| Noah was doing close to the same thing, he'd sneak in a bite and then back up or run when I went to grab him. When I finally would catch him, I held his muzzel and popped him pretty hard a few times on the end and said no bite, no bite. I've had to do it a couple of times but he's getting much better.
He doesn't behave like that on a leash though, so I can't reel him in. He only does it when he's loose. But he knows I will tear his behind up. I'm used to dealing with horses, so if he thinks his 80lb self won't get a tail whipping he is sadly mistaken. I will not abuse him, but he is going to mind me and that is not an option. |
| well that's what i'm wondering...how physical do i get? It doesn't seem fair that he can bite, jump, growl, slide tackle and I just get to say "No" calmly and firmly. For the most part I just say "no...no..no...drop it" when he ignores that I drop the leash, step on it and yank hard, which pulls the leash out of his mouth and "grounds" him. Once he settled I say "gentle" and get him to sniff a piece of kibble, I keep saying gentle till he calms down enough to take it gently form my hand and then I may repeat with a second piece of kibble, then we start walking around the yard again and whenever he walks without pulling or bitting at the leash I give him another piece of kibble and say "Gentle". This has been our morning routine since the dog trainer session.... |
| We're going thru the same thing with our 6mo old OES. At first we tried completely ignoring her and standing still until she stopped. That worked pretty well until the mosquitos came out and then we couldn't stand in one place too long. Distracting her by throwing tennis balls or having another young dog play with her seems to work well. Our dog definitely has a very strong herding instinct and will nip at the backs of our legs if we're not going where she wants us to. We try very hard to be consistent but it's hard - she is not mean at all but very enthusiatic and hard to control 5% of the time. The other 95% she is a joy so I'm convinced we'll work through this. |
| Things are getting worse. My husband was in the yard with him and the bites tonight were hard enough that it tore the sweater he was wearing. We are thinking of getting a muzzle so we can still get him some exercise without putting ourselves in harms way?
We are kind of wondering if it is something we are doing, since we never saw him bite his previous owner and when we first got him he wasn't growling and biting like he is now. He was excitable but it wasn't what it is now. When I pet him inside I always wait till he settles down and is lying down and then I call him over and he starts well, then he starts licking and then he starts mouthing which given his behavior outside makes me worried he is going to escalate inside. I feel like we are at a cross roads and the "Ignore" bad behavior and reward good behavior doesn't seem to dissuade him from jumping, growling and biting. Do some dogs need an owner to be really aggressive to get them inline? Should we put a muzzle on him or does that play into the fact that he doesn't learn to control himself? Should we physically punish him for biting? I hate having to ask these questions |
| Again, not an expert here...That said here's what I would TRY. Once he starts jumping and nipping while outside, leave him there and go inside(providing you have a safe place to leave him outside ie fenced yard). Do over and over etc until he gets the message that this is not tolerated. You may have to go in the house like it is a revolving door but eventually he will get the message.
A muzzle may work...or not. Try it and see what happens. Can you ground him? This can be tricky as some dogs don't tolerate it. We had to do this to Simon when he was a pup as he got too excited and bit..hard. We did this on advice from a trainer. Imagine an eight week old puppy snarling and snapping (Thank God he grew out of that!). I would not give up on him yet as he seems like a good dog with a problem that with some work and perserverence (sp) you will work through. As Kristine mentioned I have Gar...who is a work in progress. I call him "My Wild Child". We got him at two and a half years old and he was not house trained, humped everything in sight and barked. He still barks but he is a lover and a keeper. |
| We do "ground" him, we could leave him outside but we haven't let him off the leash in the backyard since he started the attacking. we were trying to follow the principle that freedom is easy to give and hard to take away.
I'm also concerned about having to eventually go get him in the yard and as I think he may actually be quite content there. Thank you for the suggestions though, I’m grateful for any input. I usually leave before my husband does and he messaged me and asked me if I beat the dog this morning (I obviously didn’t) cause he was so timid when my husband came downstairs. So he seems to be getting more aggressive outside and then can be timid and shy inside (and yet sometimes slightly aggressive) Personally I think I may be seeing some improvement I was out this morning for about 40 minutes walking in circles in the yard and we had I think three outbursts, where when we first started I think I had 4 in 20 minutes. I’m just wondering if there can be a happy ending? Is this dog going to require constant vigilance over the next 10 years? Can you have a dog that behaves like this eventually calm down and with the proper training be gentle enough to be handled by anyone? If so, what’s the proper training? : P |
you should check out the fearful dog Yahoo list for help. this sounds like an issue they would have a lot of experience with and it really sounds like his issues are not sheepie specific (like herding all the neighbors kids  ) |
KatGracie wrote: I’m just wondering if there can be a happy ending? Is this dog going to require constant vigilance over the next 10 years? Can you have a dog that behaves like this eventually calm down and with the proper training be gentle enough to be handled by anyone? If so, what’s the proper training? : P
You can absolutely have a happy ending. I promise you this. I know when you are in the thick of it, it is incredibly frustrating and stressful and hard. It changes your whole life, and creates conflict out of something that was supposed to bring positivity into your life. There are all kinds of emotions swirling around having a nippy, out-of-control large breed puppy. You probably feel angry, and sad, and betrayed, and hopeless, and anxious, etc. All perfectly normal feelings that you should give yourself time to express, away from the dog. Take the time to cry, have tantrum, throw things, etc. again, away from the dog. It's a really awful experience, but you can without a single doubt, turn this around and end up with a calm, well-behaved, obedient, loving, affectionate dog. The first thing to do is try to disengage emotionally while you are correcting the problem. It's not easy, but dogs can sense our fear and frustration and that just increases *their* nervousness, which will manifest in more of the unwanted behavior, and increase the intensity of it. So before you venture out into the yard to start training this behavior out of the dog, take a few deep breaths, remind yourself that it is NOT personal, and that it probably feels just as bad and scary to the dog to be so out of control as it does to you. Remind yourself (more deep breaths) that your dog is desperate for a firm leader, a way to discharge her energy that won't get her in trouble (I'm sorry if I'm using the wrong pronoun, but I have limited time and can't go back and check right now... ), and that a dog who knows who is alpha is a happy, calm dog.
Thirteen years ago, I adopted a 10 week old Brittany mix puppy. I was just out of college, newly married, and had a big fenced-in yard. Getting my own puppy had been my dream since my beloved (and in retrospect, almost pathologically well-behaved with virtually no training) childhood dog had died when I was 18. I was living in a rural apple-farming community, and when I saw an ad at the local grocery store for Brittany puppies for free, I jumped on the opportunity. My husband and I brought Bingo home, a wiggly, chubby, beautiful, bouncy, perfect puppy. Within four weeks, he had turned into a nightmare. A biting, scratching, yowling, jumping, food-aggressive whirlwind. This was not what I had signed on for. My husband and I were both constantly covered in bruises and bite marks and deep bloody scratches, etc. My husband began to dread coming home from work (I worked at home) and stayed later and later each night. We were essentially terrorized in our own home by this puppy. I called a semi-famous behaviorist and had a long telephone consult. He told me to put the dog to sleep, that there was no hope. I just could not see putting a beautiful, healthy puppy to sleep without at least trying everything, even things I never thought I would try (I'm not talking about physical, painful punishment here, but will get deeper into what we did in a bit). We worked, and we worked HARD with him. We loved him, and we wanted a happy, peaceful home with Bingo as a part of it. It took, IIRC, about ten weeks, with his behavior improving markedly every week. By the time he was a year old, he was the sweetest, kindest, most loyal, affectionate, calm, wonderful, loving dog I've ever known. We had twelve perfect years with him, during which we traveled all over the United States with Bingo along, he stayed in five star hotels and grotty old motels, North to South, always up for anything. I would have trusted a toddler to take a steak out of his mouth, he was so well-behaved. Bingo died this month, of cancer. We grew up together, he and my husband and I. I am so deeply thankful that I decided, that day back in the nineties when I was really just a kid playing house, that I wasn't going to give up on him. You can do this. You can. It won't be easy, but you have to remember that this time passes, and your pup will NOT always be like this. There are definite things you can do, starting today, that WILL work. You *and* your puppy have a long, wonderful life waiting for you togther. This is just a bump in the road. It's not "too late" and there IS a happy ending for you. I'm so sorry I have to run off now, but I will be back later and, if you like, will detail exactly what we did to turn Bingo around. I wish you the best, and completely empathize with what you are going through. Before you know it, this time in your life will be over, and one day you will look at your dog and think "I can't believe this is the same puppy I struggled with so hard." |
| Hi Everyone,
Just wanted to check in and say we are making some progress. We had a dog-savy friend over and he showed us a couple of tricks that have helped curve some of the bad behavior. We introduced a spray bottle to the backyard issues and I'm pleased to say yesterday we only had one incident of the jumping, growling, biting and this morning for the first time in 2.5 weeks we had no incident. But then when we came inside he growled at me when I tried to wipe his paws... but I will take our little victories when we get them. Thanks again everyone for all the support and advice. I'm going to the vet tonight for the first time so I may post a little bit on how that goes if anything interesting comes up that might have contributed to the behavior. On a happy note, yesterday while I was standing outside our front door (well, in the window beside the door) with the door closed I asked Casey to sit with the hand gesture we use and he did and then I used the "Stay" hand gesture and then went inside and he did that too |
| I would be careful with the use of aversives like the spray bottle, they can cause the dog to redirect. |
| Can you expand on that? Do you mean that the dog starts attacking the spray bottle in our hand instead of us? I'd been holding off the spray bottle because i know it can be a handy tool for grooming but we figured we'd find another way around that. |
| No he may react negativelly in another situation that you won't link to the spray bottel. like with a toy or something - somewhere where he feels more at ease.
Just removing him from the situation might work better - he acts up in the yard he goes in his crate. a frim no and removing him can help. so can contacting a certified behaviorist or a positive trainer. |
| We had a behaviorist/trainer in already and that's kind of what escalated the behavior. She said he's getting overstimulate and to just walk him around the yard for now and that seemed to aggravate his desire to bite the leash and attack us. She suggested grounding him and turning sideways to him to absorb the bites and create an unaggressive stance. She also said to try and distract him with scent/kibble before the behavior escalates. We only had a bit of success with this. |
| The spray bottle - hmm Archie just tries to drink it, same with the hose even on a high jet! |
KatGracie wrote: We had a behaviorist/trainer in already and that's kind of what escalated the behavior. She said he's getting overstimulate and to just walk him around the yard for now and that seemed to aggravate his desire to bite the leash and attack us. She suggested grounding him and turning sideways to him to absorb the bites and create an unaggressive stance. She also said to try and distract him with scent/kibble before the behavior escalates. We only had a bit of success with this.
wrong trainer - I went through more than one till I found a good one. Just like everything else quality varies. anybody that recommeded anything that made me uncomfortable I would ditch (and have). did you watch the new reality show - america's top dog? the judges were very clear - no physical manipultion etc. none of this happens over night and quick fixes can make things worse. I agree you need to keep them relaxed if they have a tendancy to stress, but the yard may be too limiting. Look for a new trainer. in the meantime there are many books you can read. I am currently reading Click to Calm and I have three others piled on the counter (some older with some questionable "science".) Check out the Yahoo lists on positive training, fearful dogs and control unleashed - there are volumes of information. you can often get a recommendation for a trainer in your area that real people have success with that way too. relax, you guys are still getting to know each other but you want to be careful to lay a good foundation to your relationship. Find a better trainer. Most important - only work with him when you are calm. |
| Chauncey was a problem puppy. He did the same thing with a leash. He loved ( and loves to go for walks ) but for the first many months if he saw a rabbit or squirel, a car passed us by, or a gnat farted in the next town, he start the jumping, snarling & pulling at the leash thing. We ( I ) tried the Halti collar, my husband is Mr Whimp when it comes to disciplining Chauncey. Well that didn't work after weeks, so I tried a spray bottle with just plain water. It was just enought to bring him back to earth and break whatever was going on in that brain of his. I was hesitant to try this because I use a spray bottle to groom.....I still do with no ill effect. I did not have to squirt him more than a few times, after that all I had to do was show it to him. I now take him everywhere I can and it's a joy. He even likes to play dress up at PetSmart.
He still like to chase rabbits and squirels in the yard, we have several older rabbits that I swear taunt him, it's a hoot. He still hasn't figured out where the squirels go  , maybe I need to trim his eyes?
Have patience, I know it's hard, esp. when your puppy is so large. Nipping is also a herding thing, but it doesn't make it acceptable or pleasant. Chauncey outgrew that stage by about 9 months, thank God. We,not always lovingly, referred to Chaunce as our furry alligator. There were times when my visit to the Dr. could have landed my husband in the police station for questioning.  Your boy is older and with consistencey should outgrow it more quickly. Yelping oooow when he nips, ending whatever activity your doing or even a short time out, should teach him pretty quickly that if I nip, I don't play.
Best of luck, patience and you'll have the love of your life......Kathy |
Chauncey wrote: or a gnat farted in the next town,
ROFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!! |
| on the bunnies taunting him thing...my husband came home from one of the walks more distressed then usual and he recounted that Casey had seen a cat and tried to chase it. Charlie (husband) with a great amount of effort rained him in and didn't allow it. And the cat showed his gratitude by following them for 20 minutes. |
| Just wanted to post an update. Although we still have lots of other things to work on, the jumping and biting has stopped. If he starts to jump and get excited we can actually just say "No!" and "sit" and then he stops. Which is awesome. We keep the water bottle reasonably close but I don't need to carry it with me anymore.
I think we were just mis-communicating. He wasn't getting that it wasn't fun for us to be panicked chew toys and we weren't successfully communicating that we didn't want to play his game. We will still need ALOT of work on not chasing cars either in cars or on walks but that all seems manageable compared to the biting. Thanks again for all the advice and for getting me through a tough patch. |
| Congratulations of the progress you all are making!
From your description, Casey is not "aggressive", he is simply being a BIG puppy. Please take out the word "aggressive", replace it with "big puppy behavior". Know that this too shall pass as you train together and as Casey "gets it". What has been done (and not done) can be turned into a bonding experience as you properly train together - with the commitment it sounds like you are willing to give. I've met lots of "Casey's" and all have successfully been trained to have good manners - including good leash manners. One *can*, and MOST DO, successfully train a dog/puppy without being physical and compromising your pet's trust in you - his handler, his trainer, his best friend, his world. (his world revolves around you, you know - and though it may not feel like it right now, he lives to please *you*) Any trainer that you chose should be *very* familiar with the breed. Ask for references and check them. Not all trainers are created equal. Not all are knowledgeable when it comes to sheepdogs. If you find the spray bottle useful, it is best to squirt him in the bum where he is startled for a second, just long enough for you to *redirect* his behavior. (it's also best, if you can pull it off, that he doesn't see that the "squirt" is coming from you) Presuming you have a fenced in yard, does Casey play "fetch"? Or at least chase balls? This may be a "pre-walk exercise" to assist in physically working him before training on lead. And as you have stated, treats, treats, treats to reward him for a job well done. Treats may be substituted later with pats or a favorite toy - but to start treat rewards will *really* get his attention for a job well done. Keep up the good work! It sounds like you and Casey are making great progress. Together. |
NCPomRanger wrote: Noah was doing close to the same thing, he'd sneak in a bite and then back up or run when I went to grab him. When I finally would catch him, I held his muzzel and popped him pretty hard a few times on the end and said no bite, no bite. I've had to do it a couple of times but he's getting much better.
He doesn't behave like that on a leash though, so I can't reel him in. He only does it when he's loose. But he knows I will tear his behind up. I'm used to dealing with horses, so if he thinks his 80lb self won't get a tail whipping he is sadly mistaken. I will not abuse him, but he is going to mind me and that is not an option. I am wondering....reading this post. There are so many ways to handle a dog, that most of us consider part of our family. Number one this is a herding breed they are certainly going to try to keep you in the "herd" I have had a few rescues that have had a bite issues...if I ever "popped" them they would have probably gone right back at me! I don't understand your thoughts on that...can you please explain. Does aggression stop aggression? All due respect I am the alpha here without any hands popping any parts of my kids. Is your boy in a fence or does he roam??? Can you leash walk him so he doesn't have to run from you?? Most sheepies stay in the area they are comfy...honestly if you are "popping' him he is certainly going to try to run! OES are only "farm dogs" if they are trained to be. There is an instinct to herd but, not to roam. Do you have livestock? Just curious .... I am sorry the "tail whipping" thing bothers me.... You "rescued" him correct? |
NCPomRanger wrote: Noah was doing close to the same thing, he'd sneak in a bite and then back up or run when I went to grab him. When I finally would catch him, I held his muzzel and popped him pretty hard a few times on the end and said no bite, no bite. I've had to do it a couple of times but he's getting much better.
He doesn't behave like that on a leash though, so I can't reel him in. He only does it when he's loose. But he knows I will tear his behind up. I'm used to dealing with horses, so if he thinks his 80lb self won't get a tail whipping he is sadly mistaken. I will not abuse him, but he is going to mind me and that is not an option. I'd like to have the opportunity to do to you what you're doing to Noah: Pop him in the muzzle and whatever other cruel "training" methods you are using. What is wrong with you? A dog is not a horse but that's no way to handle a horse either. How do you treat your Poms??? I'm appalled that you associate yourself with a rescue of any kind. I'm not so sure Noah is better off with you than in that Missouri shelter. You shouldn't own any animals! |
| Wow, how did I miss this post. I'm just home from a 10 day vacation/house hunting trip to the Cape Fear area. We had lived there for 3 yrs. many years ago when we first were married, and hope to retire back there soon.
What she is correcting sounds like playful, although not always fun play. We had a lab that enjoyed sneeking up on me and pinching me one on the bum and running for me to chase. God I miss him and the love nibbles. He was the most well behaved of any animal or human that I have met, but it was a game for both of us and never was it painful. Bobby & I had a laugh a few weeks ago when Chaunce did the same thing. I had tears in my eyes. I guess submission isn't what we're looking for. I love the playful, interactive personality. We have a good time and he now has learned through LOTS of love and patience the bounderies. What rescue adopted out Noah, and what can they do to correct this????? Physical, painful punishment of an animal is never acceptable. |
| I do not abuse my animals. But biting is not acceptable in any situation, it is a liability. If a dog bites a shelter you can be assured he will be put down. Most families that have kids will put a dog down that bites whether the child provokes the bite or not. Nipping is not the same as biting.
Nipping is playful, biting is an entirely different issue. Noah no longer bites, he is doing great and has calmed down tremendously now that the testerone level has dropped from neutering. He gets excited and jumps and barks and that is fine and to be expected. |
NCPomRanger wrote: I do not abuse my animals. But biting is not acceptable in any situation, it is a liability. If a dog bites a shelter you can be assured he will be put down. Most families that have kids will put a dog down that bites whether the child provokes the bite or not. Nipping is not the same as biting.
Nipping is playful, biting is an entirely different issue. Noah no longer bites, he is doing great and has calmed down tremendously now that the testerone level has dropped from neutering. He gets excited and jumps and barks and that is fine and to be expected. Just curious, NCPomRanger, What's your definition of "nipping"? And of "biting"? |
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