Casey Day 4 - Advice please!
On Saturday my husband and I picked up Casey, a 1 year old OES who needed a new home because his owner was going to be moving into a senior's home. This is my first OES and my first dog (I have been around dogs and lived with my brothers dog for 7 years but this is the first I can call my own) Casey has been super brave and really good about a number of things: - he tolerated the 5 hour drive back to our home really well for a dog who hasn't really travelled at all in cars and was very obviously terrified at different points in the drive. - After two nights in a row of waking us up at 4:30 am he slept until 6 this morning. - he ate immediately when he got home and there hasn't been any disruption in his eating patterns. He eats everything we put down. - Yesterday he started playing with toys and seemed to really relax in the house - He hasn't had any accidents in our house yet, poops and pees very predictably - He goes into his crate at night with very little fuss. The bad: - he is a NIGHTMARE to walk - we took him to the groomer to get him shaved so I could learn to groom as his coat grew in again and I have never had an experience that can compare to the living terror Casey went through as the cars went by him as we drove to the groomer. It was a surreal experience, once I saw how bad it was I just mentally accepted he was going to bite me but to his credit he didn't even mouth at me (even when it came to me holding his head down in a head lock manner to keep his eyes off the oncoming cars. - He seems to be really anxious overall outside of the house The advice I'm looking for (obviously ANY advice is welcome): - he seems to be overly attached to me if I leave he whimpers and cries. How do I get him to be more casual and relaxed? ( My husband thinks maybe I am babying him too much) - When I'm walking him and he gets a bit of lead on me, he'll turn, bite the leash and then charge at me growling and try to nip at my feet. If I correct him he gets more aggressive and then I got more aggressive and then he does and it's a miserable walk. I'm thinking he thinks I'm his toy? I guess I'm not showing him I'm the pack leader? We don't let him go through doors first and we (husband and I) eat in front of him before we feed him. I'm pretty sure we are doing all the little token things to show him we are the boss but somehow we need to do something more substantial to hit it home and I'm at a loss. I'm really needing advice, I can see potential in the dog but I'm not sure how to get there. |
|
|
| First of all, congratulations on your new family addition. Over all, despite the points that need some work, I think you are doing wonderfully well and are making good decisions. It makes sense to have Casey shaved down so that you can learn to groom him from an easy maintenance cut. It may be the case that you decide to keep him in short coat--many very good OES owners do. But starting from ground zero, as it were, is sensible.
Eating, potty, sleeping all seem to be going well. Casey is obviously able to form good attachments. Part of an OES personality is wanting to be with his family. Around here, they are often referred to as 'velcro dogs' for just this reason. I think that the very next step you should make is to enroll Casey and yourselves (hubby included) in basic obedience classes. If nothing else, it forces you to practice at home, which is really what you need the most. It will also give you access to an unbiased outside party who is an expert on dog behavior and how to get what you want. You can get great advice from a good trainer. You want to look specifically for a trainer that has had experience with OES or other herding dogs, especially large ones. I have run into a trainer or two who just didn't really feel comfortable with larger dogs and one who was freaked out by my large OES puppy who was laying quietly at my feet. Go figure. Basic obedience will help you and Casey learn to walk together peacefully without tearing your arm out of its socket and without Casey dragging on his lead or either of you getting in trouble. BTW, the nipping is misplaced herding behavior and it's not acceptable. Instinct or not, Casey can learn this is not acceptable. Rather than be aggressive, try to be assertive. This a mind set. Let there be no question in your mind that you are going to walk the way you want to, with you in charge. Ideally, it won't cross your mind (or Casey's) that there is any other way to walk but with you in lead and in charge. For now, keep him on a short lead. It will take a while for Casey to adjust to the new way of doing things, and a short lead lets you keep a quicker grip on any situation. I walk all 3 of my OES at one time. That's 270 lbs of dog with 3 very distinct personalities. Have I mentioned that I'm 5'1? Although my dogs are pretty good, if I see something that I think might be a problem, or if one of them is not behaving very well, I shorten the leash and have them walk right next to me. The side benefit of an obedience class is that it should be fun. So, as Casey gets used to the idea of car ride = fun times, his anxiety should lessen. I haven't had to deal with this specifically, so I can't offer any good tried and true tricks for helping a dog who is terrified of car rides. As far as Casey becoming upset if you leave the room--to a certain extent, this is probably natural as he adjusts to a new routine and new family. However, to help him become comfortable with the normal comings and goings of the household, you need to learn to demonstrate to him that it's all no big deal, which means there is no reason for him to get upset. Don't tell him goodbye, don't fuss over him before you leave or when you get back. Simply come into the house as you normally did pre-Casey and maybe even make a point of sorting through mail, hanging your coat and keys, getting a cup of coffee, etc. and greeting him when he is quiet. Do your best to ignore him when he's anxious and upset. It is human to want to offer comfort when you see him upset, but it works against calming him down. |
| ^^^
All good advice! Congratulations! Don't get discouraged, Casey is going through alot of changes and it will take time to adjust. Do you have a vehicle that is big enough to put a crate in? If so I would suggest that you crage him in the car and throw a blanket over the crate so that he doesn't get so scared. A gentle leader (available at most large pet stores) may help with walking til you get to a class. I have never used one but many recommend it. Do you and your husband share dog care chores? It might help if you both took turns feeding him. There is a good book, The Dog LISTENER (not whisperer) by, gosh the name escapes me....... Anyhow, she gives alot of good suggestions for establishing yourself as pack leader. But FOOD is a BIGGIE. GOOD LUCK! |
You have been given very good advise. Regarding the car ride, the crate with a cover is a good idea, but I also found taking the dogs in the car as often as possible will make them less frightened of it. Of course you don't know your dogs history of car rides, weither he only went in the car to the Vet or rarely went in the car. My dogs (3) love the car. As soon as I grab my keys they are ready to go.  Of course if I know I won't be taking them with me I go from one dog to the other, before I pick up the keys, and tell them they can't come this time. They seem to understand and don't get all excited when I leave. When they do know they are going they do what I call "the dance of joy"...which is running back and forth between me and the door and wrestling with each other. It really is funny and some day I hope to capture it on Video. I wish I could capture their energy level and bottle it. 
Good luck with your new sheepie. |
| Hi Guys (another small novel)
Thanks for the replies, I'm really really grateful. We have a gentle leader, we were trying to train him without it but after the miserable walk we strapped it back on yesterday. He didn't really like it (no shock) but it ended up rubbing a little raw spot by his jaw because we'd shaved him down. The raw spot isn't bad since we caught it right away so we just won't use the leader again till he gets a little furrier. I was thinking we may just keep walking in the front yard and back yard till he gets the idea of not pulling? I did it this morning and he seemed to be able to focus better on listening to me when his environment wasn't so stimulating but that makes it tricky to give him a really good walk. Last night he didn't make a peep and this morning he didn't bark at all but when I approached the crate to let him out he growled? He wasn't at all aggressive when I let him out and he almost didn't burst out of the crate like he usally does. (We make him sit before we open the door but that doesn't seem to slow him down much) My husband and I have been taking turns feeding him and walking him he's reasonably well behaved for him but doesn't seem to be quite as attached. We don't pet him until he settles down and I learned not to comfort him when he's scared. I'd love to sign up for an obedience class but the car thing is a real challenge. He will get in and out of the car with no real problem, it's specifically the other moving cars that get him upset. We were thinking of hiring a trainer that could come to our house to help us with everything (cars, walking on the lead, jumping on people) Which is better having a trainer help us through the car issue or getting him into an obedience class and enduring the car ride? When we first picked him up we had a small van and he travelled in his crate with a blanket over it. He was anxious but he was nothing like when he was in the back of our car. We only have two small cars and neither can hold his crate so i'm not sure what our options are. |
| a company called "Bark busters" was highly recommended by my vet (at least my local guy was good, she said) and they come to your home to train.
I fear if you forced him to get to obedience class in the car, that the state he'd be in when you got there might not be terribly conducive to working in a group environment. Have you tried doing just short trips, say around the block, only to return to the house with a tasty treat or a good play time waiting for him? This was recommended to me when I was getting my pups adjusted to the car. It helps them associate the trip with something possitive. |
I would talk to the vet when you have him checked out - they canprescribe something to make the car ride less traumatic until he learns its not a bad thing. some dogs are terrified of the car for various reasons. One of our four dogs has to be sedated - the other three fight over who gets to go on car rides  they are all different.
I would try to find a good certified behaviorist. I was advised to use an IAABC behaviorist and have never been sorry. Kerry |
| Try getting into the car and sitting in it for five minutes a few times a day without turning it on. Give a treat at the end of each time.
Then sit in the car for five minutes a few times a day without it moving, but having it turned on. Do the treat thing. Next do the same thing, but turn it on and drive to the end of the driveway and back. Don't forget the treats. Repeat with a half a block. When there's no stress, move to a full block. Eventually go a few blocks. Repeat repeat repeat. Eventually, make it a drive to the nearest park for a short romp. (And treat of course)... We've never had a dog who completely freaked out in the car, but we've used this technique for anxious dogs with tummy issues. With patience and time they've become great car dogs. Maybe this would work with your Casey too. Sounds like he's very very lucky to have found you guys! Good luck to you! |
| So another question...how do I handle my anxiety?!?
I'm sure I'm transferring it to him and aggravating his own but it makes me so uncomfortable when he growls at me. I genuinely have the impression that when when he growls he's playing. BUT! I feel like he's testing me and I'm clueless how to respond. He gets this look in his eye that is litterally "I'm just playing".... and then he cocks his head and looks at me through his eye with the dark patch over it and there's this menacing "Or am I..." I tried ignoring him with an interesting result when he realized I wasn't going to stop him from nipping and growling ( I usually try to say "No!") he seemed to be completely conflicted, running back and forth trying to nip and then stopping himself and then charging at me again and then backing away again and then just running away. My wise husband said he tries to only scold him when Casey is snooping around doing something calmly that he shouldn't. He figures when he's charging around excited, trying to scold him is useless cause he's just not himself. I have to say I find it interesting that I am both the one that Casey is most affectionate to and most aggressive with. I'm thinking alot of my anxiety is coming from the fact that I really don't know the dog well yet and the growling certainly isn't building my trust. Should I just suck it up and mentally overrule my unease? I'm worried my anxiety over what might happen ( the dog will snap at me, the dog will snap at our neighbors kids, our guests) will actually subconsciously lay the ground work for that path to unfold. Except for all your wonderful responses I'm feeling kind of isolated. The car thing is really bad. I can't see us being able to take him anywhere anytime soon. So that leaves having someone come here. We have money set aside for training but we are torn because having someone come here is expensive vs. paying for something like Bark Busters with an exorbitant upfront fee and they won't even let me talk with the trainer first. AND! Just to vent a little, they offer a lifetime guarantee and as many visits as you need to fix the problem but what if their training doesn't work? You have a lifetime guarantee of ineffective lessons with a mediocre trainer? (Not to pick on Bark Busters but I bet the program is only as good as the particular trainer in your area) I looked up to see if there was a certified IAABC (insert correct acronym) trainer like some very caring person suggested and I found one that has actually gotten three completely seperate good reviews. This sounds great but I'm thinking to have her come to our house will be very expensive so do we go for less lessons with a well referenced trainer or unlimited access/support from something like Bark Busters? These aren't the decisions I was hoping to be making my first week with our dog.  |
| woohoo! I actually guessed the training acronym correctly (it's a small victory but at this point I'll take it!) |
KatGracie wrote: I'm sure I'm transferring it to him and aggravating his own but it makes me so uncomfortable when he growls at me. I genuinely have the impression that when when he growls he's playing. BUT! I feel like he's testing me and I'm clueless how to respond. He gets this look in his eye that is litterally "I'm just playing".... and then he cocks his head and looks at me through his eye with the dark patch over it and there's this menacing "Or am I..."
Is he play bowing - bringing his shoulders down low with his butt in the air? Or is he grabbing a toy while he's growling? Or head butting you? Those are the things our dog does when he's trying to entice us to play with him. Somehow, being assaulted with a drooly smelly stuffy by a growling sheepie is supposed to be an irresistible invitation to play.  At some point you'll learn the difference between the "play with me" growl and the "stranger in my yard" growl. The "stranger in my yard" growl makes my hair stand on end.
Either way, you can choose to ignore him. When Bailey got crazy, I used to sit at one of the high bar stools in the kitchen and read a book so I couldn't make eye contact with him. After a while he'd realize that his antics were not getting him any attention, then he would calm down. The experts say that you're supposed to provide affection on your terms, not his. Solving the walk issue will help because the exercise will calm him down. Have you tried a choke collar? We had Bailey trained with both the Gentle Leader and the choke collar (not a prong collar, just a choke chain). The choke collar seemed to work better for us. It's exhausting at first because you have to be attentive and in control during the whole walk. But you will both get better with practice, and the walks will become really enjoyable in time. Good luck! |
| Hi Sue,
You know what? I'm sure he just wants me to play. I think I've been reading too much about what to do/not to do and I can't remember how to play! I read on the Humane society site not to play Tug of War games, we don't want to encourage him jumping up and we don't want him to mouthe. I think we are very boring parents indeed. We do play with toys and he plays really well by himself with his toys and can keep himself going for almost 20 minutes without us doing a thing. I think he wants me to wrestle with him when starts to charge and growl at my feet, since yesterday I've just stopped moving when he did that and he stops almost right away and at least I don't get that creepy feeling things are escalating. I feel bad cause my old dog used to try and play and I indulged him but with Casey I look at him and think about how big he is and..what if he "plays" with the neighbors kids. On a very positive note he walked in heal with me for 25% of our walk this morning! When he was in heal I'd repeat calmly "Good boy Casey, goodboy to heal" and when he wasn't in heal I'd say "No. No Pull" and stop and re-adjust his collar so he wasn't choking himself. This morning when I came downstairs after showering he was getting excited and tried to nip at my feet and I stopped walking and ignored him for a sec and then kept walking and he followed me and then plunked himself down on his bum in a nice sit. (I've been mainly only petting him when he was in a sit or a down) I think we are making progress and I'm feeling better over everything so thanks everyone for all your help! Casey thanks you all as well, and would like you all to know he appreciates your efforts in helping Mummy not be such a Fussy McWorrywort. |
| Congratulations on your new 'baby'....
I am no expert, but I have had a couple of rescues so I do know how hard it is the first few weeks, months. I does sound like Casey is beginning to settle in and getting accustomed to you and your husband---AND that he has bonded to you, which is great!!! Getting a trainer or behaviourist to come to your house may be an expense you were not counting on, but, in the long run it may be your best bet at you getting trained on how to handle the various issues that Casey has. When I got my Pearl from rescue at about 4 months, she was very fearful of car rides since her former owners had put her in the back of a pickup truck and drove, on the highway to get her to the Humane Society. This was very traumatic for her and it took a long time of slow, positive reinforcement for her to be able to ride without 'melting'... Even now, at 11 years old, you can see her begin to cower when a truck or bus pass, so she will never be totally happy with car rides. Having said this, we do take her with us alot and I think she knows that after the car, we get to have alot of fun!!!! (She is a therapy dog so we do travel often...). I just wanted you to know that it is possible to retrain and get past these little bumps in the road. Please keep us posted as to how all this great advice you have found here, works for you and Casey. |
KatGracie wrote: Hi Sue,
I read on the Humane society site not to play Tug of War games, we don't want to encourage him jumping up and we don't want him to mouthe. I think we are very boring parents indeed. We do play with toys and he plays really well by himself with his toys and can keep himself going for almost 20 minutes without us doing a thing. but with Casey I look at him and think about how big he is and..what if he "plays" with the neighbors kids. This morning when I came downstairs after showering he was getting excited and tried to nip at my feet and I stopped walking and ignored him for a sec and then kept walking and he followed me and then plunked himself down on his bum in a nice sit. (I've been mainly only petting him when he was in a sit or a down) I think we are making progress and I'm feeling better over everything so thanks everyone for all your help! The not playing tug of war is somewhat outdated advice. I always play with my guys and as long as they learn to stop when you tell them to - no problem. I don't think you have to worry about him "playing" witht he neighbor kids because there is no way he would interact with them without you and he will learn when play is good and when it isn't allowed. the heal nipping is a herding thing - you can, as you are finding out train him past that and the only petting when sitting is perfect! just my opinion, but I would talk to the vet about the car issue and then go to the well certified behaviorist. it will be to your benefit in the long run. |
kerry wrote: The not playing tug of war is somewhat outdated advice. I always play with my guys and as long as they learn to stop when you tell them to - no problem. I think it depends most on the dog's personality. |
| certainly does but most dogs can handle a little of it when they are young. |
Was he socialized at all? Did he go one walks or lived in a quiet area? If this is all new it is scarey. When Blue was younger he was hell on a leash. We started walking in the bushes and let him RUN. Now we just leash him again... and much better I am going to gentle leader him again because Sami does wonderful on it. Total lose leash walk with her, I am hoping to get that with Blue no pull on both would be great. (unless I am going up hill  ). Can you walk him with another dog? I have to say I was nervous over taking the dogs in public. jumping on people or what. They where so good that I was shocked and happy. That my babies are growing and getting manners AND better then what I thought. |
| I think he was socialized very little. He lived on the ground floor of an appt. in Toronto and I think the owner had very very few guests. The owner said he had initially taken an obedience class but it sounds like he dropped out after the first 2 classes because the owner felt the class wasn't going to teach him anything he didn't know. We figure Casey was walked along the same stretch every day. When we drove home, and then to the groomers that was probably his 4th,5th and 6th drive in a car respectively.
When we brought him home he had no idea what to make of the steps but has been coming along nicely. This morning's walk went well. Yesterday I just walked him around the yard to work on the pulling, this morning we started in the yard and then walked back and forth on the street and the pulling improved. I think he is overstimulated so we will just keep doing repetitive loops till he relaxes and doesn't pull and then we will add to the ground we cover in our neighborhood. |
Didn't find exactly what you're looking for? Search again here:
Custom Search
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|