It's not a "Disney" Dog!
Well, I'm extremely annoyed that the Walt Disney Corporation, who protects their own Mickey Mouse copyright so fiercely, has virtually appropriated the OES almost as if the breed was one of their name brands. They have made millions, no, billions off the OES, while owing no royalties to anyone. And have they contributed proportionally at all to the well being of the breed, or dogs in general? And unless you enjoy walking around with a corporate icon from the entertainment industry, what we can do to make people stop calling our OES "Disney dogs"? |
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| Here in the uk its "The dulux dog" were ever you go,
very rare will people say old english.. |
| I have to be honest, it doesn't really bother me. Disney obvious thinks highly enough about OES to use them in their movies. AND it gives me an opportunitity to talk with others about the breed. |
| I have gotten that quite a bit too, more when Maggie was "shaggy" then now that she has her summer cut. At least people can make that connection between the OES breed and a movie. I would rather have them know what kind of dog they are then try to make conversation about a breed they know nothing about or try to associate them to some memory that you don't really care about or want them to talk to you about.
I also have a confession to make.....in conversation with someone who is trying to think about what kind of dog she is, I have mentioned that she is like Max from The Little Mermaid. I guess I'm just as guilty as the rest when they reference OES' with Disney. |
| Actually the remake didn't use an oes, they used bearded collies. |
| I don't see a beef with Disney or Dulux or Purina or anybody else who uses OES in their movies/shows/commercials. And no, I don't mind when people recognize my dogs through those avenues.
The movie Beethoven made St. Bernards famous. Old Yeller made Labradors famous. Lassie, Rin Tin Tin, Cujo, 101 Dalmations, Milo and Otis.....for heaven's sake, that's just off the top of my head. I bet there are thousands of movies with different breeds out there. Shall we go back to Lil' Rascals producers and get royalties for the American Bulldogs? Do you seriously think if someone makes a movie that stars a certain breed they should pay royalties??? OES' are no more a "corporate icon" than E.T. |
rdf wrote: Do you seriously think if someone makes a movie that stars a certain breed they should pay royalties???
Yes. Please makes checks payable to me.  |
ButtersStotch wrote: rdf wrote: Do you seriously think if someone makes a movie that stars a certain breed they should pay royalties??? Yes. Please makes checks payable to me. 
Here it is the Dulux Dog too, what's an OES ? We don't mind and "Dulux" does pay and sponsor the breed & Clubs here for use of the dogs for promotions, advertising and TV. So if people recognise them as "Dulux Dogs" so be it.  |
lisaoes wrote: We don't mind and "Dulux" does pay and sponsor the breed & Clubs here for use of the dogs for promotions, advertising and TV. So if people recognise them as "Dulux Dogs" so be it. I was just going to say the same thing |
| I don't mind people making the comparison of the OES to the Disney Movies...I do the same thing when trying to discribe Violet...little kids alway understand and get really excited. Disney is nothing to me since I live in Florida the land of who? Mickey Mouse |
| I acctually love it when someone recognizes Pearl or Heart. It seems that people are more apt to come up and ask to pet them....
(I think) they feel they know the breed from the movie---they start asking a lot of questions and I am able to educate them about the breed. I like making new friends because Pearl and Heart 'open the door' with their sweet faces.... |
| Doesn't bother me but then I have never heard them referred to as a Disney dog , I find 1/2 know she is an OES and the other 1/2 ask |
| wouldn't bother me - although no one has ever said it. I do get Shaggy dog a lot.
why would I mind - I probably fell in love with the breed through disney movies as a kid myself  |
kerry wrote: why would I mind - I probably fell in love with the breed through disney movies as a kid myself
Good point Kerry! |
| I love it when people recognize the breed. It makes them (the dogs) very approachable. I love the attention and so do my dogs. |
| I love seeing Max in "The little Mermaid"! My only concern is that when a breed is "popularized" the demand goes up and you see more byb producing them. I don't have any statistics to prove this ,it is just MO. |
DandAbi wrote: I love seeing Max in "The little Mermaid"! My only concern is that when a breed is "popularized" the demand goes up and you see more byb producing them. I don't have any statistics to prove this ,it is just MO.
I think the OES is somewhat immune from that because of the coat. they are still pretty hard to find here in the northeast. you rarely see them out and about. I have met maybe two over the last 10 years. Of course some will always make that claim and they were more popular during the Disney Shaggy dog years. But then there were many stay at home moms with time to groom 
I think the issue may be more of ensuring an adequate supply of dogs from good breeders - whomever that may be  |
| Well, I was actually thinking back at the over population of Dalmations at the pet store after 101 Dalmations. And later seeing them at the Humane Society because they had too much energy and weren't trainable. There have been other breeds to suffer due to "popularity" and the latest fad. How about when Hollywood starting carrying around "purse puppies". I've never seen so many little yorkies and dachs, and the like, at our local pet store. In fact our local Humane Society told me once, while my son was volunteering, that they worry when a movie features a dog. I wasn't speaking of the OES breed specifically but I do bet that Abi has been recognized by some because of "Shaggy Dog" and that was a bearded collie -the new movie not the one from 59? |
| oh dals definitly suffered from popularity. thye used to be the highest cause of family member's being bitten by the family dog. but to the average person they do seem low maintenance.
I wasn't arguing - just pondering out loud - or with my fingers ?  |
kerry wrote: - just pondering out loud - or with my fingers ?
Oh no Kerry, me too.
Dee (oops not logged in) |
| I either get "hey look it's the Shaggy DA or OMG what kind of dog is that??" either way I dont mind I love talking about my OES |
| I always get, "Look, it's Mr.Muggs!". The thing is, I didn't know who Mr. Muggs was until people started saying this! Apparently the generation before me learned to read with some early literacy books starring this character, who was none other than a loveable OES dog! |
| We ALWAYS get the shaggy comment and it used to bother me A LOT, and I'd go out of my way to say "no, that was a bearded collie" but now I just smile and let them pet the dog. It's not worth explaining myself over and over unless they inquire more about the breed/dog while petting her (and they usually don't). |
| Yes, I remember the original Disney Shaggy dog movies and seeing 101 Dalmations when it first played.....
My parents remarked then that it was a shame that because of 101 Dalmations (and Lassie, Rin Tin Tin and Shaggy dog movies) that some breeds were 'over-popularized', ie, over/badly bred to turn out large numbers for people who fell in love with the on screen image without thinking about the reality. I think there is some truth to that. |
I just long for the day when people stop asking if Bear and Clyde are the same breed.  |
ButtersStotch wrote: I just long for the day when people stop asking if Bear and Clyde are the same breed.
When I would walk Millie, my Beardie, everyone thought it was an OES --
Then Pearl came into our family and I thought, OK...now people would be able to see the difference. NOT TRUE!!! I would get asked if they were mother and daughter!!!!  |
ButtersStotch wrote: I just long for the day when people stop asking if Bear and Clyde are the same breed.
Well geez if you'd brush Clyde once in a while.....whatdaya'spect? |
ButtersStotch wrote: I just long for the day when people stop asking if Bear and Clyde are the same breed.
They're not???
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| yes, i agree! little kids might not know the breed name but they do know the shaggy dog!
i always have kids (and adults) wanting to pet panda while we are on walks... i dont mind...in fact, i am so happy and proud to be blessed with panda that the only thing that has ever bothered me, was when someone called her a dalmation 
breed recognition is a learned thing...im happy to be a walking teacher |
| who gets asked if their dog is a goldendoodle? I had that today and before; especially when she is shaved. |
| no goldendoodle but a lot of "what is it?" when Morgan is shaved down. while I like his SPanky and the gang look - others are confused by it |
| We've had all kinds of reactions to Phoebe. Many people light-up when they see her so I don't mind if they call her the "Shaggy DA" or a "Disney dog". Phoebe brings a little bit of sunshine with her where ever she goes. |
| This is one of the OES influences I grew up with. The author wrote her strip so the characters aged and so did the pets.
The link below documents the sequence of events that led up to the passing of the family's 14 year old OES. Now be forewarned it's sad to read but incredibly beautiful, touching and noble. Sorry if this puts a downer on the thread but it's a beautiful downer. http://www.fborfw.com/features/farley/passes.php p.s The links on the bottom left side of the page take you though the 9 comic strips |
KatGracie wrote: The link below documents the sequence of events that led up to the passing of the family's 14 year old OES. Now be forewarned it's sad to read but incredibly beautiful, touching and noble. Sorry if this puts a downer on the thread but it's a beautiful downer.
http://www.fborfw.com/features/farley/passes.php Thanks for the link, very touching. Is Farley's death medically consistent, though? Can this really happen to a dog? |
| I found this on a list of risks of swimming for people on wikipedia. So I'd take it with two grains of salt.
-"Thermal shock after jumping into water can cause the heart to stop." ...I can't vouch for the accuracy of the story line but I also can't read it with out getting all choked up |
| Joan and I cried about that for a long, long time.
On our refrigerator we had a subsequent strip about them walking along and imagining they kept expecting Farley to be around... and there he was as a very happy spirit, trotting alongside them. |
spacegirl21 wrote: who gets asked if their dog is a goldendoodle? I had that today and before; especially when she is shaved.
I was stopped on a walk by a woman in a truck who wanted to know if Max was a goldendoodle because he "looks just like my dog". Lally |
| lol. A couple of times when we've run across goldendoodles, the first thought that pops into our minds is "that looks like a wrong-colored sheepie in puppy cut.!)
Re: Farley. I remember that storyline with Farley's death saving his little girl. Still makes me cry. When our first OES, Merlin, was failing and approaching the end, I remember thinking that his heart would be the last thing to go--it was such a strong, good heart! And it was: he died as I stroked his head with one hand, and had the other on his chest . My oldest son was 26 when he died and he told me that his friends teared up when he told them that Merlin passed on. We still feel Merlin around us from time to time. |
| I love that people recognize Gus Gus, no matter where it's from. I'm always asked "what is it?" and I follow with "He's an Old English Sheepdog, like in the original Shaggy Dog movie" and then there's usually an "ohhhhh yeah!" I once had a little girl say that he looked just like Barkley (from Sesame Street). I think Barkley is technically modeled off of an OES, but he's never explicitly called one. I thought it was amazing that such a young girl could put that together when most people (including me) grew up with Sesame Street and would never think of Barkley
Gus Gus also gets a lot of "He's like a living Muppet!". I love taking him to the Memorial Union Terrace (UW-Madison) because he gets tons of pets, lots of good kid interaction, and people love to see him. He literally attracts people- they just turn around and come back to pet him. Can't imagine owning a differnet dog, he's my little hairy child! |
| I either get what is that? or the shaggy dog, then I say no, its Tim Allen You should see the look on the faces, priceless |
| Just this week a guy saw him and started singing the theme song to Sesame Street. Barkley, Dulux, etc. I don't mind any of the assorted popular OES associations, except for "Disney dog".
Disney is tacky, an oppressive symbol of mass-commercialized, hegemonic American "fast-food"-like entertainment! Our dogs are better than that! |
Cadenza wrote: Just this week a guy saw him and started singing the theme song to Sesame Street. Barkley, Dulux, etc. I don't mind any of the assorted popular OES associations, except for "Disney dog".
Disney is tacky, an oppressive symbol of mass-commercialized, hegemonic American "fast-food"-like entertainment! Our dogs are better than that! oh come on. i for one grew up on uncle walt's Sunday night commentary. Disney is what we make of it. if you don't like Disney - stay away from it. From what I see public television and sesame street has done more to undermine the intelligence of the US school child than Disney ever did. studies show that because of sesame streets format generations of children brought up on Sesame Street have no attention span (well I believe the study showed they have 3 second attention spans - try teaching algebra to that kid!) I for one have fond disney memories. I have met people that worked there that hated it and those that loved it. pretty much like any corporation they exist to make a profit - in case you missed it that is the essence of capitalism. As I recollect from when my kids were little Public television wasn't giving away those sesame street spin off toys either. WIth the state of the country these days I would think we need some more positive influences. and yes ron I would have said all of that over a cup of tea!!! reasonable people can disagree. |
kerry wrote: Cadenza wrote: Just this week a guy saw him and started singing the theme song to Sesame Street. Barkley, Dulux, etc. I don't mind any of the assorted popular OES associations, except for "Disney dog". Disney is tacky, an oppressive symbol of mass-commercialized, hegemonic American "fast-food"-like entertainment! Our dogs are better than that! From what I see public television and sesame street has done more to undermine the intelligence of the US school child than Disney ever did. studies show that because of sesame streets format generations of children brought up on Sesame Street have no attention span (well I believe the study showed they have 3 second attention spans - try teaching algebra to that kid!) Do you have a link to the study that claims that? Was it from a scholarly journal or more of a news article? The reason I ask is because I've been pulling articles for my dissertation and wanted a few dealing with that very subject. None of my research has pulled that particular claim so I'd be interested in seeing it. One theme that seems to run through the newer research is that many educators follow the Sesame Street model of education as entertainment and then blame the show for short attention spans, while they follow the very same model! I've been sifting through older articles as well that delve more deeply into how Sesame Street was created and the research conducted for it. It's very interesting. I think one of the most interesting things in the Sesame Street/attention span debate is that in many of the studies that I've read, they show the children short excerpts of the show. So they were already worried that the segments in the show were being too quickly transitioned, but then they showed ever shorter clips! |
| sorry - I know we read studies on it when I worked onthe education bdget and that was one of the claims - I don't have access to that now:( |
Cadenza wrote: Disney is tacky, an oppressive symbol of mass-commercialized, hegemonic American "fast-food"-like entertainment! Our dogs are better than that!
I feel badly for you that you have that perspective about Disney. Yes Disney is a huge corporation, but IMO it is one of the best run companies out there. I only have fond memories of Disney, the movies, the amusement parks, etc. I feel very fortunate to get so excited anticipating another Pixar movie that is jammed packed with creativity. Even the amusement parks are so well produced to the tiniest detail. The parks are immaculate and the employees are always friendly and courteous. If I were closer to Orlando, I would definitely be trying to get a job there. I always smile when someone does a "Shaggy DA" shout out. Maybe I subconsciously got into this breed because I love Disney so much... |
VerveUp wrote: I feel very fortunate to get so excited anticipating another Pixar movie that is jammed packed with creativity.
I actually can't wait to see Wall-E LOL |
VerveUp wrote: Cadenza wrote: Disney is tacky, an oppressive symbol of mass-commercialized, hegemonic American "fast-food"-like entertainment! Our dogs are better than that! I feel badly for you that you have that perspective about Disney. Yes Disney is a huge corporation, but IMO it is one of the best run companies out there. I only have fond memories of Disney, the movies, the amusement parks, etc. I feel very fortunate to get so excited anticipating another Pixar movie that is jammed packed with creativity. Even the amusement parks are so well produced to the tiniest detail. The parks are immaculate and the employees are always friendly and courteous. If I were closer to Orlando, I would definitely be trying to get a job there. I couldn't agree more. The very last thing Disney is in my mind is an "oppressive symbol of mass-commercialized, hegemonic American "fast-food"-like entertainment". In all honesty, it sounds like sour grapes, for what, I can't imagine. One of the largest employers, stellar management practices (as in, we send leadership candidate employees to learn how to do it the Disney way all the time), very high employee satisfaction, good corporate citizenship, environmentally responsible and innovative, and to top it off, oodles of entertainment for the kids. MBAs are willing to give their right arm for an internship at Disney. I think we're going to take the kids on the Disney cruise next year.  |
| i dont mind really what they say, they're just jealous because they dont have one. most people love to pet and ask questions and of course obe obliges. as long as it's not bad i dont care one way or the other. |
| I agree with the original poster. Warm memories or not, Disney is still a large profit-driven corporation and has used their significant influence to erode public rights.
The U.S. Copyright Act of 1790 signed by George Washington established a 14 year term for copyrights with an option to renew once if the author was still alive. Copyright law was created as a public good. It was a contract between artists and the public. The artist was protected from infringement for 28 years during which time they could freely monetize their work. In exchange, the work went into the public domain thereafter where it could be freely used and form the basis for future culture. Unfortunately, the term has been extended several times, most recently in 1998 when Disney lobbied congress heavily to extend the term to protect their early works of Mickey Mouse. Presently the term stands at the author's life plus 70 years, or 95 years for corporations. Thanks to this move, few works of art, music, literature, or cinema have entered the public domain since 1923 and none since 1978. For all practical purposes the copyright duration is now infinite, as Disney will no doubt have the law changed again before the 2019 loss of Mickey. Disney has also been a huge proponent of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, a law which basically elliminated individual rights to fair use of digital content. If you wonder why your Microsoft PlaysForSure media player no longer plays purchased content, it's thanks to technology supported by this act. For more information you might try:
A Fair(Y) Use Tale - Silly YouTube video using Disney video clips to summarize the issues Free Culture - A book about big media's control of public culture .. available for free online |
crustybird's husband wrote: I agree with the original poster. Warm memories or not, Disney is still a large profit-driven corporation and has used their significant influence to erode public rights. The U.S. Copyright Act of 1790 signed by George Washington established a 14 year term for copyrights with an option to renew once if the author was still alive. Copyright law was created as a public good. It was a contract between artists and the public. The artist was protected from infringement for 28 years during which time they could freely monetize their work. In exchange, the work went into the public domain thereafter where it could be freely used and form the basis for future culture. Unfortunately, the term has been extended several times, most recently in 1998 when Disney lobbied congress heavily to extend the term to protect their early works of Mickey Mouse. Presently the term stands at the author's life plus 70 years, or 95 years for corporations. Thanks to this move, few works of art, music, literature, or cinema have entered the public domain since 1923 and none since 1978. For all practical purposes the copyright duration is now infinite, as Disney will no doubt have the law changed again before the 2019 loss of Mickey. Disney has also been a huge proponent of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, a law which basically elliminated individual rights to fair use of digital content. If you wonder why your Microsoft PlaysForSure media player no longer plays purchased content, it's thanks to technology supported by this act. For more information you might try:
A Fair(Y) Use Tale - Silly YouTube video using Disney video clips to summarize the issues Free Culture - A book about big media's control of public culture .. available for free online You've opened my eyes to a few things but you know, I always look at things like this and wonder how Walt Disney would feel. Would he want domination like this or would he want competition? I have the same feelings about Milton Hershey. What they are doing with the company today and how it was back then I feel like these gentlemen may be "rolling in their graves" as the saying goes. Especially with Hershey because he was a man for the people and with Hershey Co laying off and the Mexico thing.
Is this the way these men would have really wanted things?? |
crustybird's husband wrote: I agree with the original poster. Warm memories or not, Disney is still a large profit-driven corporation and has used their significant influence to erode public rights.
The U.S. Copyright Act of 1790 signed by George Washington established a 14 year term for copyrights with an option to renew once if the author was still alive. Copyright law was created as a public good. It was a contract between artists and the public. The artist was protected from infringement for 28 years during which time they could freely monetize their work. In exchange, the work went into the public domain thereafter where it could be freely used and form the basis for future culture. Unfortunately, the term has been extended several times, most recently in 1998 when Disney lobbied congress heavily to extend the term to protect their early works of Mickey Mouse. Presently the term stands at the author's life plus 70 years, or 95 years for corporations. Thanks to this move, few works of art, music, literature, or cinema have entered the public domain since 1923 and none since 1978. For all practical purposes the copyright duration is now infinite, as Disney will no doubt have the law changed again before the 2019 loss of Mickey. Disney has also been a huge proponent of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, a law which basically elliminated individual rights to fair use of digital content. If you wonder why your Microsoft PlaysForSure media player no longer plays purchased content, it's thanks to technology supported by this act. For more information you might try:
A Fair(Y) Use Tale - Silly YouTube video using Disney video clips to summarize the issues Free Culture - A book about big media's control of public culture .. available for free online Even if mickey mouse goes into public domaim who ever uses him wuold still have to identify him as mickey mouse by walt disney as there is guide lines for public domain use.Just look at Mark Twains stories at how there getting used.I can see why Disney is trying to change copy right laws considering they got there start using public domain.Guess they don't want to be copied like they copied. |
Willowsprite wrote: VerveUp wrote: I feel very fortunate to get so excited anticipating another Pixar movie that is jammed packed with creativity. I actually can't wait to see Wall-E LOL I just saw it tonight! Great film. Funny, smart, original. Makes you think, laugh and sigh. |
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