Is it Separation Anxiety? Has House-Breaking Failed?
Tonks and Luna are now 8 months old. When we have to go out, we "crate" them in our kitchen. They out-grew the crate they used to share. So we had begun isolating them from the rest of the house in our good-sized kitchen. We would do this at night, when they sleep, as well. But then, Tonks had begun to pull up and destroy our linoleum flooring. So we had to put her back into the crate (which is in the kitchen) and keep Luna in the kitchen, but not in the crate. This worked for a while, and Tonks was doing really well, so we began to let them both just be in the kitchen again. And, after Sheepie Palooza, where they slept free in our room with us, we decided to let them do that at home too. So while the kitchen used to be thier "bedroom" at night, it now is only the room they stay in while we go out. In the last week or so, we'd put them in the kitchen to go out, but when we come home, there's urine and poop. The poop is almost always, without fail, runny and diahrrea like. This morning we went out for 90 minutes to have brunch. I walked them before we left; both pee'd and pooped. And yet, when I got home, there was both in the kitchen. And the floor is being destroyed again. I was reading this on Separation Anxiety. Neither dog is a "velcro" dog while we are home. And they don't put up a fuss going into the kitchen, when we prepare to leave. But we do work from home, so I can see how maybe they are used to us being around ALL the time. They don't mind us taking out the trash, going to get the mail; none of this phases them. I just don't know about the pooping and peeing in the house. It feels like we had finally achieved "house broken" and now the're not with the program anymore. Sometimes its not even when we go out; sometimes Luna will go to the front door and go there, rather than let us know she wants to go out. I've bought a bell for the door, and we are starting bell training for that. Sometimes Luna goes in the night; even though we walk her before bedtime. And it seems its always diarrhea; is her tummy sick and she just can't hold it? I feel like we are regresssing in so many areas. So; is it separation anxiety? Or are they testing us? Are the girls regressing on thier house breaking? Is it just that they are young? It seems wierd for them to suddenly develop separation anxiety. But what do I know....  |
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| i feel your pain i let my sleep downstair in the bed room free well i woke up and poop was ustairs in the carpet runs all over i don't see how they got out the door and which one did .. i your case i think they might be testing you all over again.. sheepies and loose poo arrrrrrrr |
suzptcruise wrote: i feel your pain i let my sleep downstair in the bed room free well i woke up and poop was ustairs in the carpet runs all over i don't see how they got out the door and which one did .. i your case i think they might be testing you all over again.. sheepies and loose poo arrrrrrrr
Well, they may be "testing" her, but even the most cunning of sheepdogs don't have an internal on/off diarhhea switch. 
I can't tell from the description what's going on, which has me guessing it's a collection of things, but the loose poo is either stress (sep. anx would do that) or medically induced, so my first order of business would be to get that under control by bringing a poop sample to vet to check for parasites. Of course, many of them are sneaky and hard to detect in a single sample, but her vet may a more general action plan that s/he uses to get the runs under control. Then again, allergies could be a more likely suspect -- I seem to recall the runs is somewhat of a recurring issue. Is that right, Allison? If it is stress induced, that's a tougher one because you have to get to the underlying cause and "fix" that before you can turn off the poop faucet. My sympathies, btw, if it is - I took care of a sep anx. dog long term for a friend and I'm well accustomed to cleaning up the accompanying mess  It took months to get it under control and she could still relapse. But she was three or four when she came to me. This is new behavior with these girls, whatever it is.
That's a starting point at least. Kristine |
| well; the loose poop HAS been an ongoing issue, although lately its been WAY better than in the past. I feel bad, but a dull diet of just kibble, with a little pumpkin has really done wonders for them.
I talked to the vet this morning; actually took the girls in for something else so we talked about Seperation Anxiety. She said it sure does sound like it, but that it could just as easily be them "testing" us. She confirmed what all the books I've read have to say, which is that at this age they will sometimes need to have old training re-inforced... like housebreaking.
I guess I'm going to look into trying to get second large crate, and go back to crating them. I think it will be tough to "take away" sleeping in the house at night. They really seem to like it and do okay with it. But the vet said to go "back to basics" and that crate training can really help with things like anxiety, if thats what this is. |
I doubt that that they're testing you. Do you give them a probiotic/digestive enzyme? During times of stress we recently started boosting it to help keep the good bacteria levels higher than the bad and prevent tummy troubles. It worked well this weekend... no diarrhea for Panda. 
I agree with going back to the basics first. If it continues, then address it as a symptom of stress or anxiety. Remember that a dog cannot control this behavior if it's anxiety so don't scold them if you come home to find a mess. It's an after-the-fact thing and will simply be more stressful. When Panda had severe SA, we got so we would send her either into another room or outside to potty again while either my husband or I cleaned it up. We did not allow her to stand over us and supervise  |
6Girls wrote: I doubt that that they're testing you. Do you give them a probiotic/digestive enzyme? During times of stress we recently started boosting it to help keep the good bacteria levels higher than the bad and prevent tummy troubles. It worked well this weekend... no diarrhea for Panda.
I agree with going back to the basics first. If it continues, then address it as a symptom of stress or anxiety. Remember that a dog cannot control this behavior if it's anxiety so don't scold them if you come home to find a mess. It's an after-the-fact thing and will simply be more stressful. When Panda had severe SA, we got so we would send her either into another room or outside to potty again while either my husband or I cleaned it up. We did not allow her to stand over us and supervise I've done pro-biotic in the past; I need to go and get some more. I don't ever scold them for stuff like this; I know that unless you "catch them in the act" there's no benefit in the scolding. Also; they seem so moritifed that they've gone in the house, what good would scolding do, other than to make them feel worse. And I do the same; either Adam or I take them out while the other person cleans up the mess. One of the books I read early on suggested that you never let your dog watch you clean up their mess (though I don't recall why) and I really don't trust them to not tread in it while i'm trying to clean it up! |
| Don't rule out letting you know how they feel about you leaving. Daisey was 10 years old when I got Rosie, She had NEVER gone in the house and was just the most easy going OES. The weekend we picked Rosie up (we had to go to Florida to get her), we stayed at my sisters house that had a screened in pool. On the second day of being there and trying to make Rosie comfortable with us...Daisey got up, looked at everyone there (it was Thanksgiving and lots of family), walked around the pool and squatted leaving the biggest pile ever! On the trip home I sat in the back seat between them..Daisey would not look at me not matter how much I talked to her or petted her...she was down right mad at me for getting Rosie and she was letting me know it. It took two weeks before she returned to herself. She even tried to sleep on Rosie's small dog bed instead of her own big bed. I really think our pet children do things to communicate with us their feelings and since you are home most of the time they may very well being doing that. Rosie had separation big time but never went in her crate or on the floors. She just tried to do everything to get out of her crate or the doors. |
| okay; another question...
how consistant is separation anxiety? We went out for dinner tonight and were gone for almost 3 hours. We came home to no torn up linoleum, no poop and no pee. Just sleepy sheepies! |
| sigh... Almost 2 weeks of normal behavior, and now up to thier old (and some new) tricks.
Today one of the girls pooped in e of the dog beds... AND ADAM AND I WERE BOTH HOME! They didn't even attempt to tell us that they needed to go out! What the heck does that mean? I'm so at a loss right now..... |
| Dogs will sometimes look for these out of the way or more private areas to
relieve themselves. Go back to restricting access to areas like the bedrooms... keep the doors closed and only allow them in under supervision. Good thing they're so cute! |
6Girls wrote: Good thing they're so cute!
I think the same thing, several times a day! I went to see the vet this morning; to check if it was a health issue. We're ordering a special pet pro-biotic for them, but otherwise nothing came up on the tests to indicate that the girls are sick. The vet also suggested its was a behavioral thing; and not health related. Especially since some of the places they are soiling are their own beds! So we are going to do as you suggest; some more restrictions on space. Also, the vet said this is about the right age for any regression on house breaking, so we are going back to square one with that. *groan* |
| I think they need reminders that first year... and small adjustments like
this let them know what's acceptable. I'm also a big fan of probiotics and digestive enzymes. We have a puppy coming in August so I'll probably be posting and asking YOU to remind me what the heck I'm supposed to be doing!!! |
6Girls wrote: I think they need reminders that first year... and small adjustments like
this let them know what's acceptable. I'm also a big fan of probiotics and digestive enzymes. We have a puppy coming in August so I'll probably be posting and asking YOU to remind me what the heck I'm supposed to be doing!!! 6Girls, probiotics for people are sold at the store in a pill form. Do you think that is ok to crush it up and give to dogs? |
| I don't have any experience with comparing human and dog forms of
probiotics. You might call the company that makes the one you're considering and ask them... it seems they should be able to tell you. |
| actually, my vet recommended the people variety up until now, and I had good luck with it. Yes, its a pill; but the capsule variety. You can open it and sprinkle the contents onto thier food. It was called Culturelle, and is available at CVS. |
| Thanks! |
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