First OES!!!!
  now the family is battling over what to name her lol
Our chow chow of 13 yeasr was put to sleep about 3 motnhs ago so I wanted to name hher Oric (letters from his name rico) I know it's kinda a boys name but i liike it. I also though manbey Cori but our newfie is named tori.....to similar  any info, tips and whatever totally welcome.
feel free to post a pic of you OES!!! I'd love to meet them all  |
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RicoTori.... wrote: We are getting a female and when she is old enough she will be breed to a purebreed standard poople, producing a sheepadoodle
This is a joke, right? If not, I'm curious why? |
| NOPE, it's actually an amazing breed the sheepadoodle. Golden and labradoodles are really popular down here (BC, Canada) but OES are such great dogs that a "new breed" was invented par say. |
| Welcome to our community. I hope you take A LOT of time to get to know the breed, the breed standard, and why most people here are not going to be very excited about your intentions with your girl.
This post may help with some insights on that: http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=17875 But best wishes to you. |
| I hope that you understand that the majority of the people on this forum love the OES breed, and would like to ensure that the breed will live on to withhold the "breed standard" in perpetuity.
With that said I have to make these comments and I hope you understand that there are great concerns here: No puppy should go home before 8 weeks of age, and I would question the ethics of the breeder if they plan on sending her home at 6 weeks. I'm also curious to why the breeder would sell a puppy knowing that most of your intention is to breed it to a poodle. Most quality breeders want to ensure the health and standard of the breed and obviously there is no concern if the plan is to create a "designer breed". With that said, are you aware of the health issues that can arise with OES? Has the sire and dam of your new puppy had its hips graded great or excellent? There are also cardiac & gastro disorders, cancer, blindness and deafness and other autoimmune diseases associated with OES. What has your breeder done to ensure the health of your pup. How about temperament. Are the sire and dam intelligent, even keeled, not aggressive or shy? What is your plan if things don't work out with one of your puppy buyers "down the road", Ie., a dog you bred is 5 years old, the family is going through a divorce and can no longer keep it. Maybe it has a good temperament or perhaps it was never trained properly, not housebroken, aggressive, etc. What will happen to the dog? I'm sorry, I would like to hear more about your motivation for breeding, especially with never having the breed before. Forgive my harshness, but just because "they are becoming popular" just sounds like you want to have a cash cow to me. |
| She will ONLY be breeed if she healthy and with a stud that si the right size for her!!!!!! the link didn't work for me but a toy poodle???? gross.....
I don't know why people have a problem with mixed breeds? We have a half rottie 1/4 newfie 1/4 lab and she is the best dog we've ever owned. We've owned purebreed chow chows my whole life and they are full of health problems!!!! I find "mutts par say are the healthiest of all animals!!! sheepadoodles are amzing animals and a great addition to any family |
| yes i am aware of health problems etc.
her parents are fully health checked with amazing personalitys, her grnadparents are all amazing animals also. I am not planning to show her, i don't care about the "right" look to her, we just want a happy healthy companion to our family. We feel in love with the breed (sheepadoodle) and wanted to get one our selves. However we could not find any breeders in canada, we researched and settled on the OES. Our puppy is a day old today and she won't be leaving her mom until 8 weeks from now. Obviosly I joined the wrong forum. Who is to say that the OES has to stay purebreed??? That;s ridiculous.! i believe that any compatible breeds are more than fine being breed together. I think all animals should be spayed or neutered as millions of animals a year are put to sleep in shelters.. except animals that will be breed healthy and the pups spayed/neautered and going to good homes!!!!!!! once again obviously joined the wrong forum our pup is first and formost a member of the family, if she is not suitable to be breed she will be spayed and continue being are best friend. |
RicoTori.... wrote: Who is to say that the OES has to stay purebreed??? That;s ridiculous.!
Yes, there is a reason that an OES is called an Old English Sheepdog. There is nothing wrong with owning a mix. The problem is charging people an exorbitant amount of money by telling them the puppies are the new great thing. Why can't you just like an OES the way they are? What is wrong with the breed "as is"? Please don't say that mixes are healthier, that is totally untrue. Plus OES and poodles have very similar health issues, not to mention that you are choosing to breeds with the most labor intensive coats out of all of the breeds. I'm still curious to why you've decided to embark on breeding your bitch already? |
| RicoTori I hope you stick with the forum. This is the best breed forum that I have found. These people love their dogs and love the breed. They are extremely knowledgeable and there are not multiple posts about the quality of Fluffy's bowel movements.
I am sure the longer you stick here, the better informed you will become about breeding and the responsibilities involved. You may decide that breeding your dog might not be all it is sold to you to be. Good luck with whatever you decide. |
VerveUp wrote: RicoTori.... wrote: Who is to say that the OES has to stay purebreed??? That;s ridiculous.! Yes, there is a reason that an OES is called an Old English Sheepdog. Ditto!! |
| No way am I sticking with this forum!!!! I can't believe you people! You ahve me wrong. Why do you think people breed???? Duh, to have happy healthy puppies that you can have a hand in raising and see them go to new wonderful homes and watch them grow up. Period. I have horses and ferrets and you will never meet more ignorant people in those to worlds. However, i just have. I'm appalled really, and sorry that I didn't have the chance to get to know the "nice" people on this forum. |
RicoTori.... wrote: yes i am aware of health problems etc.
her parents are fully health checked with amazing personalitys, her grnadparents are all amazing animals also. in that case......... do not breed her............. good god what a disaster......you are a joke right??? |
| Well wonders never cease, I bet your OES pup to be is not from a registered ethical breeder, a BYB or Mill is my presumption.
Any ethical breeder would wipe you off their list from ever having an OES. OES are OLD ENGLISH SHEEPDOGS. Tamper with that and you are producing just a Mongrel and doubling up on what can be inherited problems on both breeds. Give the mongrels a fancy designer name and charge through the nose for them, they are still mongrels (Cross Breeds) regardless Any shelter around the world has plenty of these fancy named cross breeds, don't add to the situation. I truly hope you are not for real and I truly hope you never get your hands on an OES to do this with. 
(Sorry Ron my cup of tea turned to something stronger)  |
| Lisa, you took the words right out of my mouth! I honestly don't believe anyone could be this stupid! But wonders never fail to cease I guess. |
| Hi, Rico.
Welcome to the forum. I love purebreds, but at the dog park near where I live there is a labradoodle that is just a lovely, lovely dog, both in looks and personality. It gets along very well with my OES and they play together at least a few times a week. Do you have any pictures of sheppadoodles? I'd love to see one. If you are *really* confident that you know what you're doing, and that these sheepadoodles will be healthy creatures and generously loved, do your homework and go for it! We need 6 million healthy puppies a year, don't let the breeding police intimidate you!  |
| In the Uk they are breeding labradoodles. They dont shed hair and are very intelligent and easily trained. They are sold as pets but mostly are being used for disabled people. When we got our oes pupopy the chap had one called "Treacle" it was beautiful.
Welcome to the forum! |
| I too have seen first hand how wonderful the labradoodle is...my husband has a wonderful woman that works for him who trains dogs for disabled people...she brought him to work everyday and to our house as she has to bring him everywhere to train him..he was so bright and beautiful. He has now been placed with a blind person and is a life line for this person. I understand both sides but was amazed at the personality, intelligence and gentleness of this labradoodle, not to mention how much he is adding to the life of a blind person. There are no guarantees what a puppy will be like as they grow up...I love Rosie, paid lots from a great breeder who showed winning Tibetan Terriers but Rosie had high anxiety and even after 8 years I cannot take her around other dogs she doesn't know..we can't even let her out at a rest stop. She does great when introduced to one dog and will enjoy playing once she meets them and calms down...that's one dog only though. Other than that she is wonderful...loves her family, loves people and especially children. Reading this forum it appears other OES's have had lots of different problems I never experienced from the two OES's I had...I think our dogs are like people, no matter where they come from they have their own personalities and at times their own problems. My first OES was from a great breeder who showed her dogs...she was a rescue and died at 8 from digestive problems. My second was a BYB and lived to be almost 14 with little problems and was just the best dog anyone could have! Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and in many cases there isn't a right or wrong way to life...life is a miracle and our pets no matter where they come from are part of life's miracles. |
| Welcome to the forum.
You have joined a OES forum, one dedicated to educating people about purebred Old English Sheepdog. Consequently you will receive a hostile response to any suggestion of breeding a mutt. I hope you will take the time to read carefully the many knowledgable posts here about breeding. No dog should be bred unless they are being bred to AKC guidelines, have been certified free of any breed specific diseases and have been shown and championed to prove that they possess the breed characteristic that should be passed on. Designer dogs are a overpriced fad these days. People are paying a huge price for what they can get for free at any animal shelter or rescue. Overpopulation of dogs is a tremendous problem in our country. Dogs are being abandoned to shelters and killed at a heartbreaking rate. What you are suggesting is irresponsible and to any lover of the Old English Sheepdog just plain wrong. Please love enjoy and treasure your sheepie but do not breed her. Stay on this forum and learn the importance of responsible breeding. |
RicoTori.... wrote: Well we are getting our first Oes puppy in 6-8 weeks!!!!! They were born yesterday!!!!! I can't wait. We are getting a female and when she is old enough she will be breed to a purebreed standard poople, producing a sheepadoodle :
First thing that struck me as very wrong was your getting a puppy in 6-8 weeks???? I feel 6 weeks is way to young to get a puppy from its mom. Puppies (IMO) should be over 8 weeks old. I didnt think you could sell a pup under 8 wks anyway. ???? Second breeding a sheepie with a poodle.............. NO WAY... Please reconsider this. I may be biased but poodles can be very tempermental and to breed them with a sweet loving sheepie is just wrong. Keep the sheepie breed strong!!! Dont mess with these so called "designer dogs" Its just plain wrong!!!!!!! I dont breed I just love the sheepies and their traits too much to see it ruined.  |
| I'm also worried about you getting a puppy so young. Puppies should stay with their mothers and litters until they are 10 weeks old to help with their socialization.
You say that the parents and grand parents are in excellent health. Have all the requisite tests been performed? Have you seen the results YOURSELF and are not relying on just the breeder's word? Are you aware that an OES needs to be at least 2 years old in order to be properly screened for the serious, inheritable trait of hip dysplasia? The reason I ask is that most breeders who go to the trouble of carefully selecting their breeding pairs also have extensive health screening and testing done on the dam and sire. And they don't usually sell puppies to someone who intends to cross breed them with another breed. In fact, most of them put in the purchase contract that the puppies must be altered and not ever bred. I know that the fad is to produce 'designer' dogs which are crosses of two long established breeds. And you pointed out one of the pitfalls of indiscrimant breeding of even purebreds: if you do not carefully screen for health problems in any animal you consider breeding, you produce generations of puppies with increased health problems. Do you really want THIS OES puppy? And the dog it will become? Why? Have you ever spent time with an OES, or are you just in love with the looks? Or are you just using the puppy as a means to an end? If you truly are interested in getting to know the OES breed, please do just that and don't make any rush to breed your puppy until you have learned everything you can learn about the breed and the individual animal you have brought into your life. And do stick around this forum: you will want and need all of the advice and expertise from the members here. An OES is a wonderful dog---but it is not an easy dog. |
| Frankly you both disgusts me. I am sincerley hoping that you are someone playing a joke on us here to get some rise out of us.
This is the forum for OLD ENGLISH SHEEPDOG people. We want them kept pure and healthy. Go peddle your mutts on a 'doodle' form if you must............ but quit feeding the BS fodder here....... but for those of us that want PURE OES you have no idea (or maybe you do) how sickening you are. Sorry Ron but this just reeks of what te Animal Rightest start out with........ |
Cadenza wrote: Do you have any pictures of sheppadoodles? I'd love to see one. If you are *really* confident that you know what you're doing, and that these sheepadoodles will be healthy creatures and generously loved, do your homework and go for it! We need 6 million healthy puppies a year, don't let the breeding police intimidate you!
Are you still throwing that hypothetical number around like it's fact?  Demand for puppies, even if you are in the ball park, and so far I'm far from convinced, is not the same as demand for dogs. That's why we have shelters and rescues.
I hope you plan on joining this person in starting a sheepiedoodle rescue group because unfortunately for the dogs large breed mixes are some of the least adoptable dogs around. Before you start making smart remarks about the breeding police, I suggest you locate your nearest rescue group and offer to help out. That may give you a slightly different perspective on things and why we keep harping on health screening and breeders being willing to take their dogs back. Right now we're looking at too many OES/Pyrenese mixes floating around for it to be a coincidence. Someone must be intentionally breeding this curious mix. Who's responsible for the clean up job when they get dumped? The OES breeders or the Pyrenese breeders? Obviously not the breeders producing them. But I guess that's one of the draws for producing mutts. They're high priced designer dogs as puppies and somebody elses mixed breed problem as adults. I'm not a big fan of the labra/gooldendoodles quite frankly. Most of the ones I've met have been hyper to the point of hysterical and they're hard to place. By all means, I hope the person stays and learns more about OES and why we love the breed. There's a reason so many OES and OES afficionados decended upon St Louis this past weekend. It probably has something to do with loving the breed for what it is. Lisa, I'd join you in the stronger than tea indulgence, but I'm still too happy from having such a great weekend in the company of so many fabulous people and dogs to let even such degrees of ignorance get to me. Well, OK maybe just a sip
Kristine |
We'll probably never hear from her again!! And I was so excited for her getting her first OES. Not anymore.  |
| sorry guys i have never been one to be politically correct and i dont intend to start now!!! |
Quote: If you are *really* confident that you know what you're doing, and that these sheepadoodles will be healthy creatures and generously loved, do your homework and go for it! We need 6 million healthy puppies a year, Those are the key points: 'know what you are doing' to produce 'healthy puppies.' And this is where I get really hung up: Unless I misunderstand, RicoTori plans to get a puppy who is too young to leave its litter: a sign of a breeder who isn't particularly careful about the health and well being of the puppies. RicoTori is planning to breed this puppy without knowing whether or not she'll be healthy and free of any genetic disorders or of the best possible temperment. Will RicoTori change his/her mind if the puppy doesn't live up to his/her expectations? Or will he plunge ahead, assuming that anything bad in the OES will be cancelled out by the Poodle and vice versa? This does not bode well for future puppies--purebred or mixed bred. RicoTori has experience with poorly bred Chows but doesn't seem to understand the way to prevent the bad health that can come from a poorly thought out breeding scheme. You know, I don't have a thing in the world against mixed breed dogs. But I know from my sisters' experiences with mixed breeds that they are not necessarily all of great temperment and free from health issues. They've had more problems with health and temperment with their mixed breed dogs than I have with all 4 of my pure bred OES. Including, btw, my mother's cockapoo (cocker/poodle mix): another 'designer' dog of decades gone by: she was probably the most unpleasant dog I've ever known. Quote: sheepadoodles are amzing animals and a great addition to any family
No dog is a great addition to ANY family. Different breeds have inbred characteristics,including specific temperment traits, that make a particular breed more suited to one type of individual or family than another. This is true of mixed breeds as well. |
| It bears mentioning that education is an important part of this issue. If we jump all over somone, who obviously needs educating, we will alienate them and they will be closed to any further information.
I understand that we all feel passionately about our sheepies but sometimes a kinder gentler approach accomplishes more. I think it is possible to stay true to your beliefs without attacking someone. I know from past experience that the odds of that approach working are pretty slim but hey, there is always a first time. Cadenza; it appears that you too are desperately in need of some educating. I hope you will explore this site further and come to understand that our terrible bias against puppymills and back yard breeders is well founded and supported by facts. Your "facts" are simply bizare. |
| I have 3 dogs from a BYB and 3 from rescues. I'm trying to learn more about how to buy a puppy with the best chances of being both healthy and having the best temperament... but NOT for breeding purposes. We tend to come down hard on people who immediately talk about breeding dogs let alone purposely breeding a mix. There are so many breeders out there that truly don't know how to go about breeding dogs so they have the best health and temperament. It's the dogs that suffer.
Quote: her parents are fully health checked with amazing personalitys, her grnadparents are all amazing animals also.
I'm not sure what this means. What tests were done on the breeding parents to support this statement? If you visit the OESCA health website, you'll see some conditions known to affect Old English Sheepdogs- http://oeshealth.org . This will allow you to ask the breeder about them. Did you know that there are organizations that independently rate hips, elbows, thyroid, eyes, etc? The reason for this is that both the breeder and buyer will KNOW at least part of the health of the dogs/parents... buyers aren't forced to rely on, "My vet says my dogs are fine." Organizations like the Orthopedic Foundation For Animals (OFA- http://offa.org/objectives.html ) and the Canine Eye Registration Foundation (CERF- http://www.vmdb.org/cerf.html ) either support or refute statements of good health. They have no vested interest in their findings and this is all they do. They are professionally trained to make conclusions of some genetic health conditions that affect dogs. By simply relying on a breeder or the breeder's vet, you have no idea whether the statement is actually true. But OFA and CERF ratings are not really enough. How will you know if there is any Canine Ataxia, autoimmune conditions, epilepsy, etc.? I don't think there are tests to see if this is in the line (are there?). This is where the breeders knowledge of breeding lines comes in. Did you know that reputable breeders will take back a dog any time during it's lifetime? Is this something you too will do? Will you stay in touch with all the buyers to make sure the puppy you created is still in their care and offer them training and behavior support? Do you have the space and expertise to do this? I guess what I'm trying to say is you are at a crossroads in buying a puppy. It's not that the dogs won't be good dogs but they are simply mixes with a high price tag. Are your puppy's parents OFA/CERF? If no, you have a choice of purchasing a pup from a backyard breeder that does absolutely no testing in which case you leave yourself open to people wanting their money back for dogs with genetic defects (this is a dog with hip dysplasia- http://www.oesusa.com/Panda2005.jpg ) or having your name ruined when people publicly share your name and the defective dogs you created along with the fact you did not support them or refund their money. There is a lot a person who want to be a responsible breeder MUST consider before they bring two dogs together... |
| You will not be breeding another breed, just mutts.
When people decide to breed a "new breed" of dogs they are not considered that new breed until you actually breed a Sheepdoodle to a Sheepdoodle. That means a "purebreed Sheepdoodle" If you can even say this.... They do proper testing to make sure there are no genetic defects. You would be doing absolutely nothing for the OES breed by doing this. Why mix a Poodle with a Sheepdog? For what possible reason?? Make their coat kinkier, oh yeah, they would be great!! NOT!! Make them higher strung? They are already considered a Non Shedding breed, so what is the point? I just don't get it. |
| Me neither. I wish we knew who the breeder was so we could tell them the intent...unless they don't care either. Sheesh! |
wendy58 wrote: Me neither. I wish we knew who the breeder was so we could tell them the intent...unless they don't care either. Sheesh!
I doubt they care as they are not even waiting the 8 weeks to sell the litter (which is against AKC guidelines). Sounds like a BYB to me or a pupppymill. If they are against the AKC rules, who's to saw they even follow any guidelines. I highly doubt the parents have had any testing besides a Vet looking them over..... |
| okay i am a bit confused here. is the breeder ACTUALLY 'giving posession' of the puppy before 8 weeks? or just having 'sold' a pup to this person before 8 weeks?
That is not uncommon for someone to sell pups before they are 8 weeks.... |
| I am not sure Ali, but this is what the person wrote
RicoTori.... wrote: Well we are getting our first Oes puppy in 6-8 weeks!!!!! They were born yesterday!!!!! I can't wait. |
| Table of State Puppy Age Sale Laws and who must uphold them-
Place of Publication: Michigan State University College of Law http://www.animallaw.info/articles/ovus ... etable.htm Please don't bring her home until she's at least 8 weeks of age. This is for both your benefit and the puppy's. They learn so much in the 6-8 week period of time. The mother will teach a pup limits and will discipline her in a way that we humans just cannot do as well. The littermates can effectively teach each other that, "If you bite me, I'll bite you... and it hurts!" or "If you bite me, I'll cry"... it's called bite inhibition. Just a personal viewpoint but I think the only reason to bring home a puppy early is if the puppy has been orphaned and it has no littermates. I have a Schipperke-mix that was orphaned at around 6 weeks?? of age and she can be a stinker. http://oesusa.com/Meesha-Maggie/Meesha2.jpg Boxer World often has interesting information to share. They also have info on how and and why you should buy a pup from a reputable breeder... http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/view_boxer-dog-faq.htm |
| If you look on the first page you will note that she corrected herself and said that she is getting the puppy at eight weeks.
If you want to know what a sheepadoodle looks like [Sorry, no links to this website -Ed.] Some of the puppies are really cute. But from the pictures their looks wane as they get older. Can you see a bunch of puppies being dropped off at the shelter in about a year. From what I gather sheepadoodles would have an easier to maintain coat. Less brushing and since the coat would only grow to a certain length it would have easier maintenance. Again from what I understand, both breeds are prone to the same genetic issues and you add in the eye issues and personality quirks from the poodle, you may have you hands full. At least with the labras and Goldens there is some history to see what the dogs will look like and how they behave. Sheppadoodles are so new that you do not know what you will get. My issue is that when you have a great breed of dog.. OES, why screw it up with mixing it with something else. Oh I forgot $$$$$. |
| Well I know PRA is rife in the poodle breed and has been addressed over the years but it still plagues the breed across all sizes of the poodle.
OES have listed in Eye registries too worldwide as one eye problem that can be PRA as well. So I wonder how many sheepadoodles would suffer this affliction? What I cannot understand also is with the original post is someone who has never had the breed before and has absolutely no idea (From all the questions in the other sections of the forum) about an OES and has not even had one through to maturity, all of a sudden making a statement they are going to breed her with poodles and create a sheepadoodle. This post makes me sick, there is plenty of these designer fluffies in shelters waiting for a 2nd chance of a possible good life. (Geez someone spiked my tea with Brandy  ) |
KTB wrote: In the Uk they are breeding labradoodles. They don't shed hair and are very intelligent and easily trained. They are sold as pets but mostly are being used for disabled people. When we got our oes pupopy the chap had one called "Treacle" it was beautiful.
Welcome to the forum! Right now I have my hands full will my pup, but if I reach a point in life when I can manage two dogs, I would totally consider a labradoodle as a companion to my OES. Now, I wonder what would happen if you mix labradoodle with a sheepie. What kind of dog would be a labrasheepadoodle? Fact is, I am a "dog racist" too, and prefer purebreeds hands down. But I don't think responsible people who prefer particular mixes should be forbidden to pursue them, or chewed out like the original poster, who was merely sharing and looking for advice and information (a good sign of responsibility). Whatever their mixes, we still want the dogs to be healthy and happy and fulfill their potential best. The other point to ponder, humans have been mixing races for millenia, without disastrous health effects (look at the healthy Obama!!!). If you sort out all health issues and certifications, why wouldn't a sheepie mix well with a poodle? Poodles are more athletic and graceful than OES, OES more playful and bouncy. But temperament wise they're both nice "people" dogs. A little less shedding wouldn't be bad either. A sheepadoodle would probably look like a Portuguese Water Dog, without the aggressive streak, or maybe like a large-sized Lagotto Romagnolo. |
Ali wrote: Frankly you both disgusts me. I am sincerley hoping that you are someone playing a joke on us here to get some rise out of us.
This is the forum for OLD ENGLISH SHEEPDOG people. We want them kept pure and healthy. Go peddle your mutts on a 'doodle' form if you must............ but quit feeding the BS fodder here....... but for those of us that want PURE OES you have no idea (or maybe you do) how sickening you are. Sorry Ron but this just reeks of what te Animal Rightest start out with........ Hi, Ali. Very sorry I disgust you! If we ever have to meet in person I'll try to bathe beforehand. And you can call me any name you want, but stop using mutt as a putdown to these animals, you are going to hurt their feelings and they don't deserve it. If anything, it's the people's fault, not the dogs.
Seriously, though. Growing up as a boy, one of the most horrifically irresponsible breeders I ever witnessed was one that dealt only with purebred Pekingese. My cousin was looking for a Pekingese, and took me along to visit a woman who sold Pekingese from her backyard. When we got there, we saw all these Pekingese set loose on her back yard, a yard that wasn't very large to begin with. They were not in cages, but there was stench and feces all over the place, and many of the dogs were crippled, blind, and deformed. There was even one pup with three legs that couldn't walk. Turns out the woman was a lunatic. On the phone, she said she had 65 dogs on site and only bred pedigreed dogs, and only Pekingese. She had allowed her puppies to breed with their own siblings, and even sires with their own daughters! It was such a horrific experience that my cousin gave up forever on having a Pekingese. |
| Cadenza, I hardly know what to say to you. You are new to this site so I can only assume you have not had the opportunity to read the many of knowledgable and educated posts on the subject of breeding, puppymills and backyard breeders. I would gently suggest you do a little more research before supporting what amounts to irresponsible breeding.
If you do not agree then perhaps a purebred forum is not the place (or the people) to try to convince of your view point. The majority of the people here are pretty committed to responsible breeding. Mixed breed dogs can be wonderful animals, and there are a plethora of them available for free at your local SPCA or shelter. Your reference to Obama simply flabergasts me. |
Cadenza wrote: [
The other point to ponder, humans have been mixing races for millenia, without disastrous health effects (look at the healthy Obama!!!). If you sort out all health issues and certifications, why wouldn't a sheepie mix well with a poodle? Poodles are more athletic and graceful than OES, OES more playful and bouncy. But temperament wise they're both nice "people" dogs. A little less shedding wouldn't be bad either. A sheepadoodle would probably look like a Portuguese Water Dog, without the aggressive streak, or maybe like a large-sized Lagotto Romagnolo. UMMMM to start with comparing humans to dogs I wonder if Obama would like that???? I know our dogs think they are human and dont dare call them dogs but!!!!!! Back to the dogs. As for the "athletic and gracefulness of the poodle compared to oes. You really dont know the OES well do you. Dont let their gait fool you, you obvioulsy havent seen my Beau in action. My husband is even surprised at the things he can do. Poodles IMO are not very friendly. As a matter of fact they are very high strung and tend to bite. I know I was raised with poodles, I know their temperment. Thats why when our poodles were gone I bought an OES. I sure wish this forum was around back in the early 80's I would have learned a lot. I feel once you get to know the oes and appreciate their personality, their traits and etc, you'll understand why I feel you should never EVER turn an oes into a so called "designer dog" or MUTT. on a side note, this whole thread has made me understand more and more WHY responsible breeders sell their puppies with a contract. This is outrageous, I would never want a puppy sold for this purpose. |
Cadenza wrote: The other point to ponder, humans have been mixing races for millenia, without disastrous health effects (look at the healthy Obama!!!). You believe human races and bog breeds equate? Credibility. Lost. Madegg wrote: From what I gather sheepadoodles would have an easier to maintain coat. Less brushing and since the coat would only grow to a certain length it would have easier maintenance.
Who's to say how many breedings it would take to breed that quality consistently? RicoTori keeps telling us what a wonderful "breed" this is, but nobody could surmise that's how it would turn out - they could turn out with kinky curls that mat. They could get all of the worst health and high maintenance traits of each breed. The only way around that is to have dams and sires that are excellent examples of each of their breeds. Obviously, that's not going to happen as reputable breeders are not going to sell puppies to people with this goal. The only way these breeds occur is with dams and sires from BYB's or puppy mills who don't care what happens to the puppy after the sale, and therefore are likely to have health issues down the road. I've met a few goldendoodles and labradoodles (well, 2 of each). The labradoodles have been ok as far as temperament goes. The goldendoodles have not at all, as in - I'd never have one in my home now. Well, sure - it's bad breeding. Can't get away from it as that's how the breed came into existence. These breeds will have many generations to go in order to start breeding for long term health and temperaments - probably won't be seen in our lifetime. |
| Call them what you will...but a mixed breed is a MUTT...and the shelters are the place to get MUTTS...not a designer BYB. If you want to spend that kind of money for a MUTT...donate to a rescue or shelter instead...it would be put to better use. |
Quote: Seriously, though. Growing up as a boy, one of the most horrifically irresponsible breeders I ever witnessed was one that dealt only with purebred Pekingese. My cousin was looking for a Pekingese, and took me along to visit a woman who sold Pekingese from her backyard. When we got there, we saw all these Pekingese set loose on her back yard, a yard that wasn't very large to begin with. They were not in cages, but there was stench and feces all over the place, and many of the dogs were crippled, blind, and deformed. There was even one pup with three legs that couldn't walk.
Turns out the woman was a lunatic. On the phone, she said she had 65 dogs on site and only bred pedigreed dogs, and only Pekingese. She had allowed her puppies to breed with their own siblings, and even sires with their own daughters! It was such a horrific experience that my cousin gave up forever on having a Pekingese. I am sorry that you don't seem to realize that this is exactly the sort of situation that pretty much everybody on this forum wants to prevent. This is absolutely the worst type of byb and exactly the type most likely to sell a puppy for whatever breeding scheme the buyer got into his/her head would generate a lot of $$ or 'fun'. The sick and deformed animals that were produced were not a result of the Pekes being 'purebred' but being poorly bred, with no thought or selection of breeding pairs at all. There is a huge difference. |
| A sire bred to his own daughter is perfectly acceptable in animals, as is son back to mom. It is called line breeding. I don't know enough about breeding dogs to know if you would continue grandaughter to grandfather, but in rabbits, it is perfectly acceptable. It is the siblings breeding that is a no no. |
| Just a reminder to all... PLEASE heed oes.org's cup-of-tea mantra regarding civility. |
| actually Wendy, one of the best breedings to be done is Grandfather to Granddaughter............ |
| all i know is this poster needs to go to some the the local shelters just what we all need are more dogs !! |
| What line breeding does is to intensify or 'fix' characteristics in the offspring--for good or for ill. It can be done and done very well, but only if you really, really know what you are doing.
Might I just add that in the animal world, animals who have serious problems because of their breeding (line or not) are not usually bred. In days gone by, pups with obvious deformities were often euthanized. |
| I thought line breeding worked for dogs as well. Thanks Ali...rabbits are bred the same way if you are showing them. |
tgir wrote: I am sorry that you don't seem to realize that this is exactly the sort of situation that pretty much everybody on this forum wants to prevent. This is absolutely the worst type of byb and exactly the type most likely to sell a puppy for whatever breeding scheme the buyer got into his/her head would generate a lot of $$ or 'fun'. The sick and deformed animals that were produced were not a result of the Pekes being 'purebred' but being poorly bred, with no thought or selection of breeding pairs at all. There is a huge difference. I am all for breeder education, but all I've been reading in this thread is lots of condemnation and name calling, with very little useful information being shared. How about telling people what getting an OFA certification or DNA testing entails? Or what is meant by "breeding for temperament"? And where have I said that I support irresponsible breeding or dog ownership? Or is it because I said people should be allowed to love and enjoy their mixes? Sure, breeding is a considerable undertaking that must be carried out with planning and responsibility, but frankly, it is not rocket science. An online search for such words as inbreeding, linebreeding, mix breeds, hybrid vigor and purebreds will yield a quick education and lots thoughts to ponder. Also, just because a show breeder signed some code of ethics in the abstract does not turn them automatically into canine Mother Teresas, does it? When I was looking for a Saint, many breeders were trying to sell animals retired from the show ring at a discount rate. I find that abhorrent, that an animal that has formed a bond and a relationship with an owner, and given you a life of prestigioous service in a show ring, could be dumped from the family he's known his whole life, and disposed of in such a way at a cut rate. A puppy, at least, is a blank slate and ready to love and be loved anywhere he goes. So don't tell me that all show breeders have the best interest of their animals as a priority. One useful thing I've never seen discussed is how a potential puppy buyer is supposed to ensure that the certifications and documentation presented by a breeder are authentic. When I was looking at puppies, many times I was presented with documents for the parents that looked like 2nd or 3rd generation xerox copies. |
| Why do people think a cross breed will exhibit the best of each breed? Dominance has not be proven, recessive genes could come roaring through. Genetics is a complicated issue, not a crap shoot.
If she wants to breed sheepadoodles or whatever, the she needs to be held to the same standards as other quality breeders: complete health certifications (that ought set her back $$$$) testing, generation review for inheritated diseases, and finally a guarantee any dog not wanted by the owner will be returned to her, not a shelter. I guess all it takes is to come up with a cute name and then go find two dogs, irregardless of their quality, and start breeding. hmmmm, how about a Great Pyrenees X Retriever= PyrReview? |
Quote: How about telling people what getting an OFA certification or DNA testing entails?
I think you must have missed the links I provided in other threads. All you have to do is visit the OFA website. It's all outlined there including DNA testing- http://offa.org/diseaseinfo.html This link provides the current fees- http://offa.org/feeincrease2008.pdf |
| PyrReview... ! Ha!
..and then? A poodle X parrot X wollaby mix, a PollyWallyDoodle? While I have the chance, I'd like to mention that I've put up a new post in the FAQs section about the "oes.org Cup-of-Tea Mantra." |
Cadenza wrote: One useful thing I've never seen discussed is how a potential puppy buyer is supposed to ensure that the certifications and documentation presented by a breeder are authentic. When I was looking at puppies, many times I was presented with documents for the parents that looked like 2nd or 3rd generation xerox copies. The online data bases (cerf or CHIC) |
I just googled Sheepadoodle, I could vomit They call themselves breeders All looking to make a fast buck  The shelters are full enough, just wait till these start rolling in. I am disgusted by the way some people would take the breed we all love so much, and turn out a bunch of mixed breed pups and pass them off as some designer dogs. They are only concerned about lining there pockets |
I had never searched this before... there is a puppy selling for $1,500. 
Who in their right mind would pay this outrageous price for a pup from a BYB when they could get a purebred Old English Sheepdog from a show breeder that's done all the pretesting and even has champion parents? I just can't seem to grasp this insanity. Just my opinion but this is all about greed and exploiting dogs for financial gain. The bottom line is... they're mutts and you may as well save one that's been dumped at a shelter rather than encouraging someone to breed more. And yes, I have mutts that I love dearly. They were both dogs that were homeless and no one else wanted. Let's see... one is a Border Spaniel (Border Collie/Cocker) and the other is a Skipper-?... I can't think of a fancy "title" for her. My previous one that we lost to cancer 4 1/2 years ago (the owner was going to take her out back and shoot her if he didn't find her a home) was a Wolf-In-Sheeps-Clothing (OES/Wolfhound) if you want to get clever. Once the designer breed name fades and the public comes to understand that these are merely purposely bred mutts, I hope they'll follow through with their commitment to their dogs rather than dumping them in a shelter. Some people are all about the latest fad. There are already purebreed rescues that decline to assist dogs because of their status as mixes... |
| you know, food for thought here (I'm procrastinating finishing cleaning the house) I have been giving all of this 'designer dog' fad some thinking.
The AR agenda is to let dogs roam free and breed willy nilly. So i wonder, are they behind all of this designer whoopala? they know purebred breeders will be up in arms....... and it is one more way for them to get all the idiotic things out there.......... kind of like the new laws passed in Switzerland this past week........ OMG........ |
| Do a search for designer dog breed names sometime. You'll be astonished at the pages and pages of mixed breed names- it goes way beyond labradoodle. Everything has been bred to everything else, it appears. I don't understand how the puppies are worth so much money- it must be because it is a fad.
Lally This is funny too- http://bravodb.blogspot.com/2008/04/lab ... igner.html |
|
Cadenza wrote: Sure, breeding is a considerable undertaking that must be carried out with planning and responsibility, but frankly, it is not rocket science. An online search for such words as inbreeding, linebreeding, mix breeds, hybrid vigor and purebreds will yield a quick education and lots thoughts to ponder. . Actually, there's quite a lot of science to it. You'd be surprised at the amount of study of genetics and pedigrees that it takes to breed for the right characteristics and, even then, you may not get what you thought you were going to get. Sometimes two great dogs will throw lousy puppies when bred. Without years of experience, you can't just do a little reading and hope to figure that out and correct for it. I don't think anyone here has any problem with someone owning a crossbred dog but how they acquire it is another story. Breeding to make a crossbreed is where the problem lies. It takes many generations to stabilize a line and most of these mixes that you see are just people tossing two dogs together. The labradoodles breeding program that started in Australia was developed over time for many generations to get the traits that they wanted and they're still working on improving them. A Labrador and a Poodle alone do not a labradoodle make. The parent breeds of the Australian Labradoodle are actually the Poodle (Standard, Miniature, Toy), Labrador Retriever, Irish Water Spaniel, Curly Coat Retriever, American Cocker Spaniel and the English Cocker Spaniel. It's a breeding program that they've been working on for over a decade with the research going beyond that. I think one of the main reasons that no one can get excited about breeding an OES to a poodle is because we all ask the same question: Why? What's the reason to breed those two together? It sounds to me like the original poster just wants to do it because she thinks she has a couple of good looking dogs, which they very well may be but who knows what you'll get when you put them together. I love a mixed dog as much as the next guy but purposely breeding them that way is unfair to both breeds involved. |
| I agree 100%. There are big bucks in designer dogs- which probably has many people jumping on the bandwagon. It's a shame.
Lally |
lally wrote: Do a search for designer dog breed names sometime. You'll be astonished at the pages and pages of mixed breed names- it goes way beyond labradoodle. Everything has been bred to everything else, it appears. I don't understand how the puppies are worth so much money- it must be because it is a fad.
Lally Actually crossbreeds like cockapoo go back over 50 years. not defending or anything just pointing out they might not be a fad. |
| I know some go back for years- and I have seen a documentary where one of the initial intentions of cross breeding, especially poodles, was to get a dog that was safer for people with allergies, like the labradoodle. But it seems like lately, people are breeding more indiscriminately in a kind of "let's see what we'll get" way. I may be wrong, just my opinion. I hope it all doesn't backfire and hurt pure bred dogs. |
6Girls wrote: Quote: How about telling people what getting an OFA certification or DNA testing entails? I think you must have missed the links I provided in other threads. All you have to do is visit the OFA website. It's all outlined there including DNA testing- http://offa.org/diseaseinfo.html This link provides the current fees- http://offa.org/feeincrease2008.pdf Thanks, that IS indeed very useful information! |
loried wrote: I just googled Sheepadoodle, I could vomit
They call themselves breeders All looking to make a fast buck The shelters are full enough, just wait till these start rolling in. I am disgusted by the way some people would take the breed we all love so much, and turn out a bunch of mixed breed pups and pass them off as some designer dogs. They are only concerned about lining there pockets And what are we to make of the fact that the guy interviewed on the Oprah show about dogs (who seems deeply involved enough with the cause to know for certain) that 25% of the dogs in the shelters are purebred? Obviously, if this is true purebreds are overrepresented, considering that the overwhelming majority of dogs you see out there are mutts and mixes. Hard to believe, but can it be possible that owners of mixes are more loyal to their pets than the owners of purebreds??? Or is it because mutts and mixes are sturdier (the "hybrid vigor" thing again) and less prone to health problems than purebreds, hence less headache for lazy owners? |
| Ricotori, I obviously have not met you and I understand from your posts what you are saying. I have respect for you because you came here asking for help, that is a good sign.
Please, please spend lots of time reading ALL the posts on this site before you go ahead with your purchase. I know it's very exciting to be planning a puppy and you want to get one as soon as possible but good preparation is essential with a breed like OES. Before I got my puppy I spent 2 YEARS researching OES (yes I had other dogs before but didn't think because I'd had a Westie I qualified as knowing the first thing about OES) I spent that time reading OES books, searching the net and reading all the posts in all the sections here. Yes. ALL of them. From doing this I had what I would call good basic knowledge of OES. AFTER that, you will know how to look for a good breeder. You will know what documents you need to see, what the test results mean, what to avoid. You can also ask questions in old threads to update them- nobody will mind, but it takes a little work on your part first. Everyone is here to help you. I feel if you do this little bit of research you will most probably change your views in some areas. The people here have decades of Sheepie experience and are willing to share. After all my research, I finally went to see a breeder before the puppies were born. It is best to visit a few good (official) breeders before you make any descisions. Then I visited again twice (it was a 3.5 hour drive so I was unable to get there often) before I took my pup home at 8 weeks. EVEN ALL THIS did not fully prepare me for all the hard work a sheepie puppy is!! I knew everything there was to know, but actually LIVING it is truly something else I have friends with other breeds who don't need to put nearly as much work into owning their dogs, just because of the nature of the other breeds.
Please please please do lots of research. Spend days reading old posts here. It will help you greatly. I wish you the best of luck. |
| I still stand by my post, the the 4th sentence in her post was about breeding !! Why don't she just breed 2 from the same breed?I still think she is seeing away to make alot of fast cash quick I might have been born at night, but it wasn't last night |
| Wow, is this like some Arian website or something?! I can't believe what I've been reading! So let me just get this straight. According to the elietests out there, the offspring of two different breed pure bred pedigrees is nothing but a mongrel? Not a Hybrid? So why do we have F numbers (SEE TABLE BELOW) to denote different types of hybrid breeding if they all nothing but a bunch of mongrels?
Purebred-A x Purebred-B = F1 Hybrid Dog F1 x Purebred-A = F1b Hybrid Dog F1 x F1 = F2 Hybrid Dog F1 x F1b = F2b Hybrid Dog F2 x F2 = F3 Hybrid Dog I myself am of mixed race origin. I guess the pedigree posters out there would consider me to be a mongrel also. Not mixed race, not hybrid and not worth bothering with. PS, I'm pretty sure that Shepadoodles are GERMAN Shepard cross Poodle not "OES". |
| What you describe is a process over generations, mixing the original mix to similar mixes, for instance, to create something that will genetically reproduce itself with some degree of predictability, which is the definition of a purebred dog; the process itself describes the development of a breed.
Most doodles/designer dogs are simply a mix of one breed bred to another breed repeated over and over again instead of breeding offspring of same to each other and creating some degree of genetic predictability over time. There is no development and it's really no different than my poodle Fifi being visited by my neighbor's cocker spaniel except now I give the mix a name, pretend it's a breed and charge big bucks for it. Nice work if you can get it and cute puppies, I'm sure, but it's still not a breed. If people want cute highpriced mutts, great! But you don't lie to them and pretend it's a breed. It's a mixed breed, if that makes you feel better than mutt or mongrel, but it's all the same when you get right down to it. I happen to be one myself, and I'm still not offended that people insist there should be truth in advertising. Some mixed breeds are intentionally produced for an actual functional purpose beyond appealing to people's love of cutesy names, like Border Collies crossed with Jack Russels to create the Border Jack which can be used as a height dog in flyball. No one who knows dogs pretends it's a breed though. It's a mix and just like most doodles there's no real consistency in the litters, but you can pick what suits your purpose best and hope you find homes for the rest considering neither breed is easy to live with for you average dog owner and it's hard to say which parent the resulting puppies with take after, the BC or the Jack. If they wanted to, they could start breeding these crosses to each other and select the puppies with the most sought out characteristic and breed them to each other and then continue this for a number of generations until they breed true. But apparently there isn't enough of a demand to create such a breed, so instead it's more convenient to just repeat the mix of the two different purebred parents as needed. Any time you have a "breed" whose name is a mix between the breeds of the parents I guess you can pretty much assume it's a mix, eh? There's nothing snobbish about calling a spade a spade. It's called being truthful.
Kristine |
| Thanks Kristine, I just wanted to tell SAPS he/she was an idiot. You are much nicer. |
| The fact of the matter is that, although 'designer dog' breeding is trying very hard to gain respectability, the vast majority of people who produce mixed breed litters are irresponsible and are doing it solely for the money. Puppy mills across the country are turning out thousands of these dogs a year; they are bred in filthy conditions, not socialized at all and then command astronomical prices from people who think they are 'so cute' and just have to have one. Labradoodle, Goldendoodle, cock-a-poo. lhasa poo, chia-poo, yorkie-poo, westie-poo, malti-poo, and let's not forget Jugs (jack Russell and Pug) as well as hundreds of other mixes, and now Sheepdoodle. The list is horrifyingly large and the attraction is that these dogs are supposely 'purebred' because they only carry two breeds in their gene pool. Nothing could be further from the truth.
And, lest you think that I'm just spouting off, I am a shelter dog trainer and I have seen dozens of litters of these designer dogs and their moms come in to the shelter, rescued from abysmal conditions and barely alive. Many of them have to be put to sleep because the damage is irreversible. We also see adult designer dogs surrendered due to behavior or chronic health issues. They don't fare much better. There is very little, if any, attention paid to the chronic health issues of the individual breeds that are being crossed and many of these animals are ill and are behavioral time bombs. All I'm trying to say is that, although there may be some responsible people out there trying to create a new breed that is healthy and has desirable characteristics for certain purposes (All dog breeds began that way, after all), they are most definitely the minority and it's impossible to know for sure who they are. The designer dog craze has spawned a multi-million dollar cash cow for every unscrupulous dog breeder. Add to that the fact that the internet makes it possible for them to advertise their 'product' world-wide and we have millions of animals doomed to suffer before they are even born. It takes many, many years of dedication, care and hard work to properly breed a dog that is sound, both physically and mentally. We do this for the love of the breed as well as for the welfare of the dog. Designer breeding is nothing more than the manipulation of animals for pure profit. |
Lokis Mom wrote: Designer breeding is nothing more than the manipulation of animals for pure profit.
I was with you right up to this line. The Labradoodle (the real designer dog line not the US knock offs) were bred for a specific, and one could say honorable purpose - providing service dogs to allergic individuals. I also wonder why in the US, the cradle of capitalism, profit has become a dirty word? If someone puts their blood sweat and tears into a pursuit, not to mention time and energy and capital, what is wrong with making enough money to feed their family? |
| Kerry, you're absolutely correct. As I said, there are a small number of people out there who are trying to create a new breed with specific characteristics, chief among these being the hypo-allergenic coat of the poodle. When this craze first began, there were basically Goldendoodles and Labradoodles - The intent being to meld the personality of the Labs and Goldens with the shed-free coat of the poodle. That was a good idea, and had it stayed that way who knows? In 20 years or so, after generations of careful breeding they might even have become a recognized breed.
My point was that the opportunists saw a golden opportunity for easy cash and ran with it. The lure of 'designer' breed sucks in a lot of people and the animals are suffering for it. I am a capitalist through and through and there's absolutely nothing wrong with making a profit on something you've worked hard for. The problem is that the majority of people breeding designer dogs are putting no money or effort into it at all - They simply mate the dogs, provide little or no medical care, wait until the litters are born and then bathe the puppies and sell them for astronomical prices. When that happens, nobody but the unscrupulous breeder wins. |
| As usual, well said Kristine. |
| I understand both sides...met a beautiful labradoodle being trained as a service dog...wonderful dog! I also have tibetan terriers...most people don't realize the shiz tu and lphaso were bred from the tibetan terrier. They aren't terriers in any sense...they didn't know what to call them when first arrived in England from Tibet. I do know puppy mills are out to make money no matter what the breed is...purebred or otherwise. All I know is I have loved all my dogs...mutt, OES, tibetan terriers...each dog has a personality and soul all their own and I feel lucky they have been a big part of my life. All the opinions in the world will not change this issue. I would rather work on making humans better pet owners...responsible and loving to their pets...however with people in this world who don't take care of their own children..what's the chance they care for their pets? I feel this is a bigger issue than worrying about the pure bred pet...I am sure the rescue organizations will agree with me...finding good homes is so important in todays times. |
| I wish people were free to just love a well bred dog without getting the business about it.
If you're buying, as in paying money for a dog, why in the world would you not want the highest quality pet your money could buy? You aren't paying for status, you're paying for years of experience in creating a sound dog, genetic and health testing and a dog that is a good example of an Old English Sheepdog. Mixed breeds are great, shelter dogs are wonderful and rescue dogs can be the best dogs you'll ever have-- no one is arguing that. But, if you're breeding dogs, you're doing a disservice to yourself and the breed to not buy from a breeder that works to breed the best OES possible. If everyone bought from reputable breeders, we'd have a lot fewer dogs in rescue. |
| Why is it people think immediately that a cross will have the characteristics that the Human desires?
How about a mad shaggy (continually matting) haired poodle bodied dog with giant feet? |
| AMEN Jill |
| I was just wondering what I was.....being part of an Arian group???? I am thinking the correct insulting word you are looking for is Aryan.....I love it when people jump on the forum to stir the pot, and am amazed how much you learn about a person when spell check isn't used |
Sometimes I really love this place! LOL
 |
| what's the kool-aid man doing here!?
|
| Wow, this post brought some excitement into my otherwise dull morning
I am wondering if the initial post was a joke to spark some flames - as it did. But with all the designer dogs out there, this woudn't surprise me. But it does make me sick. I have nothing against mixed breeds but usually mixed breeds are the result of accidental breeding due to irresponsible owners. I know some people will take offense to that but that is the truth. I read somewhere on this post that we need 6 million new dogs a year or something Now that has to be a joke...Obviously the poster has not visited any animal shelters lately....
Labradoodles and Goldendoodles were bred for the specific task of being service dogs to people who have allergies. The breeders doing this were professional breeders and the dogs were chosen with temperments best suited for working. Maybe I'm not as nice as the rest of the members of this forum but I suggest the person who initiated this post join another forum that may promote irresponsible ownership. |
| ^^
I'm also sitting here chuckling at many of the posts. Quote: Labradoodles and Goldendoodles were bred for the specific task of being service dogs to people who have allergies. The breeders doing this were professional breeders and the dogs were chosen with temperments best suited for working.
As someone who was a moderator and hosted one of their original forums in Australia (back in prob. 2001), I'm all for them! ...been trying to get my husband to let me have one for years, but once he gets hanging around the guys, his macho side hates having anything with the word doodle in it. He's coming around. It helps that many of their dogs are being sold by approved breeders all over the U.S. now.
Unfortunately, I doubt the original poster is reading any of these replies anymore since they seem set in their plan.  |
| Welcome Rico
I don't have a problem with your idea of sheepadoodles. I have seen those others that our labadoodles and goldendoodles an alot of people seem to be spending alot of money on them. They are DOODLIN everwhere. I talked to this ol'boy at the lake the other day and he bought his from Australia. Seemes they have alittle better breeding program with some less issues as he told me. Now if you breed this bitch is she going to be able to hunt or herd? I think that the most imortant thing here is it's a sheepdog releative and that being the issue you are sure welcomed in my house. Just because it's not a pure breed or doesn't have papers and you seem to have a different agenda, doesn't mean we on this form need to pre-judge you.I would love to see a picture of a sheepsdoodle and would like to know what kind of coat it has? Not to mention the color that the puppies will be? So Rico, before you judge us all on this list. Allow us to maybe help educate and be a friend as what I have been told by a few on this list. I have learned alot from this Forum and I only have a fishing OES who has a longer tail than most. But he is my best friend and I am sure when you get your OES, it will also be your best friend. Some of these show people get alittle emotional about the breed. I understand why. BUT, I have seen OES with tails and they don't like that either. But, I stay to learn and share my experiences with all who want to hear and laugh. Will and I make a good laugh for most. Maybe next title should deal with Mix OES only? Don't leave! Stay and learn as I have. Wags and Will Fishin Buddies |
| excuse my spelling, I just got up this morning and didn't have my cup of coffee yet and I didn't use my spell check. Should have listened to Will?
Wags |
i am babysitting a golden doodle this weekend and someone said hey you got another sheepdog  by the way i will not even tell you how much they spend on this pup .. wait till they see what he looks like today when they pick him up --he was push in the lake by my boys  |
| I was told that this guy spent $2500.00 for his labadoodle. He bought it from some gal in Washington who was breeding the Australian way for Labadoodles. What ever that was to mean? They were to be more healthy and not shed as much? Buy the way, that dog looks like he enjoyed the water but not having his picture taken. So do you think the owners will see him and say," He had a great time visiting your place"? A little water goes along ways with a goldendoodle. You are a good friend watching that dog so it doesn't have to go to a kennel or some other place. They wouldn't let that dog go swimming like that. |
WagginTails wrote: I would love to see a picture of a sheepsdoodle and would like to know what kind of coat it has? Not to mention the color that the puppies will be?
There's no guessing what type of coat they will have or what colors they will be because they're a mix, so it will depend on how the genes come together in each individual puppy, and things like what color/size poodle you mix them with. You may very well have seen such mixes and not known what it was. I think you'll find that the OES rescue community is a lot more sensitive to the intentional OES mixes than the show community since mixes are not the concern of the latter, but they do affect the former. Kristine |
| I don't think anyone on this forum is prejuding breeding. I also don't think anyone on this forum has anything against mixed breeds. I think some members of this forum, myself included, are concerned by people calling themselves breeders who don't know the first thing about doing so. Breeding takes knowledge, testing is done before hand, prenatal care and whelping, socialization as puppies, etc. I think people on this forum have learned, some the hard way, that unprofessional breeders do more damage than good - even if that wasn't their intention.
I've seen more problems with labradoodles and goldendoodles lately than anyone is suggesting here. Lots of hip problems, heart problems, allergies, hyperactivity, etc. That is the concern. |
| This is an old thread and the OP is undoubtedly long so the whole idea that you can "create" a new "breed" in one or two generations like this season's new fashion is not worth arguing. Nor can I add anything to the fact that "designer dogs" are by now, nothing more than a fad that like all fads, quickly gets co-opted by those who want nothing more than to cash in.
But the one thing that has not been said— the one thing that has endeared me to Old English Sheepdogs for 45 years— is their wonderful, uniquely goofy personalities. That alone is worth all of the time-consuming grooming, big-footed stubbornness and any other perceived OES downside that someone might think they can improve on by a cross with another breed. No one who really knows and appreciates sheepdogs would ever risk losing that by deliberate out-breeding, and anyone who doesn't love their unique, crazy personalities frankly has no business getting a sheepdog puppy in the first place. |
| I was very dissappointed to see some of these posts..i joined forum because i have always loved sheepies but family members have allergy issues..so i have ten month old sheepadoodle which combines the BEST of both breeds. Non shed allergy..(we still must brush every day)..he will be starting herding classes soon..he already keeps the neighbors chickens out of yard..and he retrieves like a poodle..he is one of only two litters from a breeder mom and dad on site..he is the best dog I have ever owned and the smartest he can distinguish between ten different toy names..i know he is not a "purebred" but ALL dogs were bred for certain characteristics and my sheepadoodle.takes the instincts of shhepdog with the brains of poodle and is awesome |
| I think that there are many regulars on this forum who are very active with dog and sheepdog rescues, and they have a lot of experience with the tragic effects of people who are too quick and casual with breeding dogs, whether purebred or crosses like a sheepadoodle. So they are very hesitant when someone announces breeding intentions without, what seems, like a lot of preparation and thought. I also think that the nature of the "doodle" crosses (a modern "fad") increases the risk of irresponsible breeding (and irresponsible breeding leads to a lot of dogs in rescue and ending up euthanized). Everyone on this forum would be very happy for your dog being in a loving home, and you would also find that this forum is extremely welcoming of cross-bred sheepdogs and their owners, many regular posters have mixed-breed sheepies here. We are not purebred snobs, but people who love dogs, stick around, post pics of your lovely dog, and you'll find out for yourself. |
| Thank you Dave. I just erased the rest of my response. Rehashing so much that others have said. |
My 2 cents ... The Old English Sheepdog is such a beautiful, smart and loving breed it should stay pure. Why would anyone want to change it  |
| I feel compelled to respond as a prior owner of a pure bread OES (who had to be put down at age 9, yes 9, because of severe hip dysplasia) and now the current owner of a beautiful female sheepadoodle puppy. First and foremost, our OES was truly amazing but the reputable breeder who sold him to us, and I won't say their name on this website because any OES owner on the east coast will know them and be SHOCKED, but they lied and sold to me a male who they said could not be shown because his testicles were undistended and they were just going to keep and show the sister. Well, shame on me, because I didnt think to ask for parent certification of hips, etc. By age 2, he was at the orthopaedic surgeon and both hips were in terrible shape. Our only two options were total hip replacement or manage weight and keep him comfortable with cosequin and tramadol/rimadyl and finally some super expensive liquid medicine that was $150/month in addition to the other meds. As a family of 5, how could we spend 15K on two new hips? We opted to keep him as comfortable as we could and try to keep him at a managable weight. When I called the breeder to tell her (and was obviously so upset), her response was "oh, really"? Such BS -- she knew it was a matter of time. Did I also mention his left eye had entropion? We loved this OES and when he passed, I said I would NEVER get another OES because of the risk factor of hip dysplasia which affects a lot of the breed and I didnt want to run the risk of possible gene pool of anything close to the breeder who sold us to him. And, didnt want to constantly compare one OES to another. After 6-8 months of extensive research and talking to owners, we opted for a sheepadoodle and got her in Ohio from a reputable breeder, not a puppy mill or anything that you have described (and I say you because I certainly don't know who YOU are and could really care less). We called 10-15 prior owners who bought from this breeder and highly recommended her. So, don't knock the sheepadoodle. Is she more energetic and rambunctious than our OES couch potato? Absolutely. Is she lovable and cuddly and amazing with our 3 childeren -- YES. She looks just like an OES with more energy. The sheepadoodle is definitely not for everyone but just because someone chooses something other than a purebread OES or of any kind, doesn't make them a horrible person. And, to write to the one person who was so excicted about a sheepadoodle puppy in such a degrading manner, is a disgrace. Change is a good thing. |
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