New Strain of Parvo
http://www.avma.org/animal_health/canin ... us_faq.asp http://www.cvhs.okstate.edu/index.php?o ... iew&id=437 |
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| Just wondering...
Could it all be stemming from over vaccinating? 
I vaccinated Mandy one more time to be able to take her into nursing homes (against what I would do now) Mandy did end up with Immune Mediated Hemolitic Anemia(IMHA)...the vaccines maybe did not cause it BUT, I wonder are we over vaccinating our pets?? Just thinking...I used to vaccinate my dogs every 6 months for kennel cough since we had so many fosters coming in and we had a few cases! To be honest, I have not vaccinated as much as I used to for that and we havent had any lately(knocking on wood) I had more problems when I was vaccinating every 6 months! I certainly hope AVMA is not finding more diseases for us to worry about 
This of course is only my opinion! |
| Just great...
But thank you for sharing this. Makes me wonder about all the dogs people say are being imported and what has been done to control it in these other countries mentioned. Quote: It was first detected in Italy in 2000, and has also been reported in
Western Europe, Asia, and South America. Outbreaks of canine parvovirus associated with CPV-2c in the United States were confirmed in 2006 and 2007. We have not vaccinated our dogs since 2004 except for rabies and two distemper vaccinations when Panda's titers kept coming back suboptimal. We live in a tourist town... I think I'll be content to keep my pack close to home. |
| This is leading in a different direction, but I was wondering everyones opinion.
Myself, I do not believe in overvaccinating my dogs. They receive their 3 sets of puppy shots(no coronavirus or bordatella), rabies is added at the third set of vaccinations, and one more set of vaccinations 1 year after the last set of puppy shots. After that, rabies every 3 years. That's it. I have come across another breeder of OES who does absolutely no vaccinations whatsoever to her puppies or adults! She would rather treat anything they get vs giving vaccinations. Is this not playing with fire? I truly fear for those pups going to their new homes unvaccinated. Is it just me, or is this some sort of new way of thinking? |
| I dont know if over vaccinating has anything to do with this new issue. Seeing as this strain originated over seas some time ago and I believe that they are less adament about vaccinating in other countries, I dont know if it has anything to do with vaccinating too much. I just wish that they had begun research the minute they found out that there was a new strain of parvo wherever it originated. We would have at least had the research done and be able to formulate a new vaccine right away. I am not saying we should have made the vaccine in 2000 and started vaccinating because the fact is that it wasnt in the US until a couple years ago but we would have had something on hand in case it did make its way over here.
What I think is scary about this parvo strain is that it affects adult vaccinated dogs as well as pups and unvaccinated animals. I also think it scary that it attcks not only the intestines now but the heart and muscles too. And not to mention there is no vaccine but the snap parvo tests that we use in clinics to get a positive or negative on a possible parvo patient comes up negative but could be a false negative. That is what I think is scary. I was also talking to the doctors Iwork with and they agree that it is not good. They did say however that if we see a dog that could be a potential parvo case and it comes up negative that we will start to treat it as if it were positive unless we can come up with other differencials as to why the pet is sick ofcourse because treatment for this strain is the same, for now at least until they find out more info on it, as with the original strain. I guess we will have to see what happens when we do get a case in. |
Blueshire wrote: This is leading in a different direction, but I was wondering everyones opinion.
Myself, I do not believe in overvaccinating my dogs. They receive their 3 sets of puppy shots(no coronavirus or bordatella), rabies is added at the third set of vaccinations, and one more set of vaccinations 1 year after the last set of puppy shots. After that, rabies every 3 years. That's it. I have come across another breeder of OES who does absolutely no vaccinations whatsoever to her puppies or adults! She would rather treat anything they get vs giving vaccinations. Is this not playing with fire? I truly fear for those pups going to their new homes unvaccinated. Is it just me, or is this some sort of new way of thinking? There does seem to be amovement in that direction. However there are movements among some parents to do the same thing wit children which caused a severe outbreak of whooping cough in my area. |
Quote: I have come across another breeder of OES who does absolutely no vaccinations whatsoever to her puppies or adults! She would rather treat anything they get vs giving vaccinations. Is this not playing with fire? I truly fear for those pups going to their new homes unvaccinated. Is it just me, or is this some sort of new way of thinking?
Kaytee did not receive her adult vaccinations but did receive all of her puppy shots. She had IgA and IgG issues (last time tested, they were in the normal range  ) and she reacts differently to some medications. Dr. Dodds thought we should bypass these shots. So unless there is some medical reason, yes, I think this approach is foolhardy. You can go too far either way. This breeder has no control over where these puppies will be once they leave her control and from a non-professional viewpoint it seems to be negligent.
Puppies and adults can die from Parvo... those that survive are sometimes left in an inferior state. Though distemper is well controlled it does NOT mean that it doesn't happen anymore. Not too long ago there was a shelter that had distemper according to a rescue. Send this breeder the video of Shamus, the dog that TexOESR has that will now live with the affects of distemper- http://texasoesrescue.org/SHAMUSdonationpage.htm . It's painful to watch at least one of those videos. Is she willing to take dogs like this sweet babe back into her care or will she simply euthanize them? It just seems to be a foolish choice to me... Update: Hmm... I don't see the original video anymore... this dog continually dips down like he's being pushed in a downward direction. When he's in motion, he's looks pretty normal... at rest, well... you can get an idea of his condition toward the end of the video. |
Blueshire wrote: I have come across another breeder of OES who does absolutely no vaccinations whatsoever to her puppies or adults! She would rather treat anything they get vs giving vaccinations. Is this not playing with fire? I truly fear for those pups going to their new homes unvaccinated. Is it just me, or is this some sort of new way of thinking?
Amber - there are at least a couple of OES breeders who do this. I understand the thinking and I'll be interested to see how that works out for them, but I'm more like you - modifying, minimizing, not abandoning. As long as the majority of the dog owning population still vaccinate, our vaccinated dogs shed that vaccine into the enviroment and the unvaccinated pups do pick up some immunity that way, in addition to any natural exposure. Sort of a free ride. There are a minority of people who only want a puppy (across breeds) if it ideally comes from generations of rawfed dogs who were never been vaccinated. I don't know that all pups would be sold on some kind of contract that the new owner had to feed raw and never give vaccines or HW treatement and so on, frankly, giving rise to some interesting comparison opportunities. Hopefully they'll keep track and share their experiences. The basic theory, that a dog with a good immune system (and vaccinating does compromise the immune system) can better fight some or all of these diseases on their own is probably pretty sound up to a point. I've always presumed they still give (limited) rabies vaccines, though. Apart from the legal requirements, it's just not something I'd be willing to take any chances on since it's is not treatable and an infected dog is a threat all around, but I'm not sure what the stance is on this. Now, if we all stop vaccinating, that situation may change and we could truly see some nasty outbreaks. Perhaps why even my holistic vet doesn't recommend foregoing all vaccinations either. But these breeders may be on to something so I try to keep an open mind and see what we can learn from their experiences. Kristine |
6Girls wrote: Update: Hmm... I don't see the original video anymore... this dog
continually dips down like he's being pushed in a downward direction. When he's in motion, he's looks pretty normal... at rest, well... you can get an idea of his condition toward the end of the video. Jaci - someone sent me a clip of him before he was diagnosed and all asking me if it could be CA. It was definitely neurological, but clearly not CA. G/A suggested distemper right from the start. I don't know if anybody else even considered it. It is very rare these days, but evidently less so in Texas where, apparently, a somewhat substantial number of pets don't routinely see a vet for much of anything. Gave my developing blase notions about vaccinations a good jolt. Plus I had a long time breeder who had seen some of this nastiness firsthand, when they were losing puppies left and right and would have given anything for an effective vaccine, read me the riot act over my questioning current vaccination protocols. Which I still do question, mind you. But after seeing Shamus I better understand where she was coming from. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: had to feed raw and never give vaccines or HW treatement
Ooops! That should read HW preventative, of course. And I really need to invest in a good spell-checker 
Kristine  |
Mad Dog wrote: Mad Dog wrote: had to feed raw and never give vaccines or HW treatement Ooops! That should read HW preventative, of course. And I really need to invest in a good spell-checker Kristine So Ron - is it possible to spell check a posting (I have had my own issues ) |
| If you are using Internet Explorer, you can get the Google Toolbar. It has a spell check button that will check the spelling in any forms, like the posting box. You just click a button and misspelled words are highlighted, you click on the word and it offers suggestions.
It is the second link here: http://forum.oes.org/GoogleProducts.html Or you could try FireFox with the Google Toolbar, it underlines spelling errors in red as you type. It's the first link. |
| ah that's what that button does |
Quote: Gave my developing blase notions about vaccinations a good jolt. Before Panda had repeated suboptimal distemper titers, I was too. She's again adequate according to Dr. Dodds this past March after revaccination. But seeing Shamus' video of him continually bobbing up and down while at rest and not being able to settle down to peacefully sleep really hit close to home since I had a dog that was not developing resistance. While it's not a problem like it was years ago, wild animals like raccoons, skunks, etc. help to keep the disease circulating. Quote: In Michigan, die-offs of raccoons due to canine distemper occur yearly.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-15 ... --,00.html From a strictly non-professional point of view, it seems that NOT using available vaccinations can throw us back in time when these conditions were indeed a serious health concern. One of our vets had said that there are vets today that have never seen a patient with distemper and can only rely on book knowledge because the vaccination program has been so effective. But it doesn't mean we can stop vaccinating. Vaccinations need to be used responsibly... it's difficult to know what "responsibly" means now but it seems we're getting closer to at least a better answer with Dr. Schultz's and Dr. Dodds' efforts. Anyone remember the Chicago outbreak in 2004? This is a very interesting article with information on what they learned- http://www.sheltermedicine.com/document ... _oct05.pdf Just a quick search of Google brought up these confirmed cases... May of 2007: Texas http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/05 ... 7043.shtml January of 2008- Florida: http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/s ... 0050.shtml http://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/default.asp?r ... emper_info February 2008- California: http://www.zootoo.com/petnews/califcoun ... stemperout I'd just hate to see us go backwards and be so fearful of something that has actually saved so many lives.  |
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