Heat Cycle
Thanks Gertie |
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Anonymous wrote: Silly question needs answered. We have never had a female dog before always males, we need to know about what age they go into heat and the length of a cycle?
Thanks Gertie Hi, Gertie. That really depends on the bitch. Mine are late bloomers. First seasons at 12-14 mos old. But some bitches can come in as early as 5-6 mos old. And they can be pretty irregular those first few seasons. How long it lasts also varies. My eldest, pre-spay (obviously  ), was usually in for about 2 1/2 weeks. She was also very predictable. Not so the youngest crew, mother and two daughters, who drag on forever...up to 3 1/2 weeks. I think three weeks is sort of considered average, but you have bitches who are may in only 10-14 days (and sometimes split heats).
Short answer: it varies. A lot. For a hint at what to expect, you'll want to know what her mom was like - when she had her first season and how long she's normally in. That might give you some idea of what to expect, but it's not a sure thing. How old is your girl now? Kristine |
| Thanks so much for the info. I will check with the breeder. I do not want to breed her, however I wanted to wait to spay her around 8-9 months. She just turned 7 months yesterday.
Thanks again, Gertie |
| It's a good question. You didn't say your dog's breed. Smaller dogs can come in as early as 4 months, the giants say Great Dane, etc may wait until nearly 14 months. But the answer above is about average. At 7 months I'd start to pay more attention to her rear end.
You know there are 3 sections of the heat: the proesterus which is where they may spot brown or red and their vulva swells. This can last 2-15 days. She will not allow a male to mount her, in fact she can be quite "bitchy." The second is the estrus, this is where she will allow a male to mount her. This can last 3-21 days with the average best conception about in the middle.........9 days or so. The third period is the metestrus or diestrus. This is when the female will not allow a male to mount her but she may still be a bit swollen early on and then gradually go down. Maybe more info than you wanted to know, just watch the rear and look for signs of spotting. When the discharge turns a lighter color that's usually prime breeding time, so be doubly sure she is well confined. |
| Thanks, She is a Sheepie. |
| You may want to spay at 8 months...seems like a lot of the OES girls start around 9 months. She is not going to fit behind the toilet much longer. Very cute! |
SheepieBoss wrote: It's a good question. You didn't say your dog's breed. Smaller dogs can come in as early as 4 months, the giants say Great Dane, etc may wait until nearly 14 months. But the answer above is about average. At 7 months I'd start to pay more attention to her rear end.
You know there are 3 sections of the heat: the proesterus which is where they may spot brown or red and their vulva swells. This can last 2-15 days. She will not allow a male to mount her, in fact she can be quite "bitchy." The second is the estrus, this is where she will allow a male to mount her. This can last 3-21 days with the average best conception about in the middle.........9 days or so. The third period is the metestrus or diestrus. This is when the female will not allow a male to mount her but she may still be a bit swollen early on and then gradually go down. Maybe more info than you wanted to know, just watch the rear and look for signs of spotting. When the discharge turns a lighter color that's usually prime breeding time, so be doubly sure she is well confined. Good info, Susan. Thanks for breaking it down. One of the female fosters I have now, Maddie, is in heat. So, I'm having to wait, of course, to spay her. Never having dealt with a bitch in heat, I'm being extremely cautious with her. I was trying to figure out where she is in the cycle and your explanation helps me know what to look for. |
Beaureguard's Mom wrote: [Good info, Susan. Thanks for breaking it down. One of the female fosters I have now, Maddie, is in heat. So, I'm having to wait, of course, to spay her. Never having dealt with a bitch in heat, I'm being extremely cautious with her. I was trying to figure out where she is in the cycle and your explanation helps me know what to look for.
There's one additional thing you need to know: if the bitch is the top ranked OES in the country and you've spent the last 30 years waiting for this bitch and five years painstakingly planning a proposed breeding and...the timespan where she can actually conceive will be 14 minutes and 33 seconds. If it's a rescue bitch or some clueless person's pet, the bitch can and will conceive at any point from minute one till day 42 and will have no less than 17 puppies with three different sires if given the opportunity. 
There is no scientific data to back this up. It's just a curious fact of life
Bottomline, be hypervigilant throughout. Yeah, I know you would be anyway. Kristine |
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Mad Dog wrote: ...the timespan where she can actually conceive will be 14 minutes and 33 seconds. If it's a rescue bitch or some clueless person's pet, the bitch can and will conceive at any point from minute one till day 42 and will have no less than 17 puppies with three different sires if given the opportunity.
There is no scientific data to back this up. It's just a curious fact of life We were just having this conversation this weekend! Seems like good dogs and owners get 2 puppies and BYB's end up with a litter of 20! Carl's litter=13. Toby's litter=6. I think Suzi only came from a litter of 6 also. I think we need to get some Federal Grant money and study this phenomenon! |
You are so right Krisitine! Believe me, she's under lock & key.  |
Maxmm wrote: We were just having this conversation this weekend! Seems like good dogs and owners get 2 puppies and BYB's end up with a litter of 20! Carl's litter=13. Toby's litter=6. I think Suzi only came from a litter of 6 also. I think we need to get some Federal Grant money and study this phenomenon!
Actually, there are already some known factors at work. Age: Bitches are their most fertile the younger they are (within reason). Do most BYBs etc wait to breed? Nope. We on the other hand wait until they are at least two in order to do health screening (and rightly so) Then maybe we haven't rushed to finish them. Or we want some time to special them. Or we want more health data on the litter etc, so feel more comfortable waiting to breed till they are three, four or five years old. Belle's sister, Coco, was five the first time she was bred. Belle's daughter was six the first time she was bred...That's *really* pushing your luck. Every heat cycle they have in essence wears the uterus out little by little, bred or not. Though dogs typically remain fertile longer than bitches, sperm quality and quantity typically diminishes with age as well. And then there's the frozen aspect. Some times you're breeding to a dog who has been dead more than 20 years. How good was the collection process? What was the quality of his sperm at that time? How carefully was it handled prior to breeding? Even if the proposed sire is young(ish) - you want a somewhat proven male, typically - and his swimmers look great , unless he is semi-local, now you have to hope that Fedex gets it right... 
Selecting for Reproductive Fitness In essence, often we're not. Or we really have no clue, because the only way a breeding can even occur is by AI, since the stud dog you want to use is all the way across the country, if not the world. Then too, the bitch is five or six and you use every reproductive technological advance at your disposal to make this litter happen, because the clock is ticking and the bitch is critical to your breeding program. Things of that nature. Contrast that with your average BYB who has a young studmuffin on site to cover all of their bitches and they have access to each other the entire time and, well, if you're really in it for profit, and a bitch doesn't take or requires a c-section to deliver, you're probably not going to keep her, now are you? You just replace her with some other young bitch. She's not critical to your breeding program since you don't really have one. Inbreeding Depression In essence what this says is that the more homogenous the alleles, the less fit the individual, even if it's in small some times not easily detectable ways, and this includes reproductive health. You don't have to breed uncle to niece to be looking at inbreeding. Most of our dogs have enough background inbreeding to have some effect even if you go out of your way to breed out (small gene pool). Contrast this with Mr Smith's Muffy who sneaks out and runs into Mrs Jones Fluffy (probably not even the same breed ) so not a lot of shared genetic material there, relatively speaking. Mind you, you can still produce puppies that have serious medical problems. Crossing out just for the sake of crossing out and not knowing what's behind the dogs doesn't necessarily solve anything either. Consider the BYB whose dog and bitch are quite arbitrarily not very related. They may produce a litter of 13, but you can still have 5 dysplastic dogs and 7 hypothyroid puppies in that litter, or whatever other health problems are common in the breed(s). Just cause they aren't closely related doesn't mean the puppies they produce are going to be healthy (or that the puppies more than remotely resemble the breed for that matter).
A bit of a catch-22. We still have to do what we have to do to breed responsibly and carefully, yet you have to keep these fertility issues in mind. Frankly, smaller litters are a blessing in my mind. But there's a fine line. I'm not well-versed on the issue, but it's my understanding that at least a couple of European countries have some rules in effect that, though I'm not sure if this is the intended reason, effectively make it harder to push the reproductive envelope (rules against surgical implants or in some cases even AIs, I think), so probably mitigate some of this. Not all of the factors at work affect everyone or every dog equally, but cummulatively we do tend to see smaller litters on average than your teenage Fluffy x Muffy scenarios. Kristine |
| Thanks so much for all the info...
Gertie will be spayed this coming Tuesday morning. I do not want to take the chance of anything happening. We were at agility Monday night when a young boxer started to take to much interest in her. So I would rather do it early then to have Sheeoxer mix. Who knows I could start the next designer dog craze. Again thanks so much for the great info. Gertie |
| this may be a silly question but how many times a year does a girl go into heat? |
| Depends on thier time between cycles. Some dogs go 6 months between some longer. The generic answer would be twice. |
Maxmm wrote: We were just having this conversation this weekend! Seems like good dogs and owners get 2 puppies and BYB's end up with a litter of 20! Carl's litter=13. Toby's litter=6. I think Suzi only came from a litter of 6 also. I think we need to get some Federal Grant money and study this phenomenon!
Do I qualify for double grant money? Mariah was a singleton coming from both a proven dam & proven sire. I bred Mariah 4 times, a total of 3 different stud dogs, all proven, natural, AI, trancervial...you name it & never a puppy. Cathy & I (affectionately) call her our "Million Dollar Baby" |
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