Odd Behavior when out on a walk.
This question does not pertain to my OES but instead to my Great Pyrenees. He is a great dog, listens, walks great on a leash, gets along well with my other dogs, really no bad vices except for this. When we are out walking, and I usually walk all four of my dogs at the same time and they are walked every day, Byron, my Great Pyr will be great healing by my side until he sees another dog. At that point he starts barking, rearing up, biting at the leash, and acting as if he is going to be aggressive with the other dog. The dog does not have to be near us but if he is anywhere in Byrons' sight this behavior happens. This has been going on for about a year now. I can take him anywhere, vets office, etc and he is fine with the other dogs. This behavior just seems to happen when we are out on our walks. The other dog can be across a field and not paying attention to him, but Byron still goes ballistic. I use a prong collar on him and try to get him to sit until the dog passes, or he gets it under control. I am not sure what to do to correct this. I am going to start to take him for walks by himself and go to the park, which usually has more dogs, to try to desensitize him. I am hoping that by giving him praise and treats when he remains calm will do the trick. I was wondering if some of the dog trainers on this board, or others who have experienced this behavior with their own dog could offer some assistance. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance. Jack |
|
|
| From the sounds of it your Pyr has developed "leash agression" which occurs when a dog is consistently corrected for reacting to other dogs.
This is what happens....Your dog is fine with dogs, and when on a leash he tries to meet and greet. He is punished by a correction, and in this case it is by the pinch collor. When he pulls to see the other dog, he is corrected and hurt. Eventually he relates the hurting to the other dogs....Like. "gee, every time another dog comes around, I get hurt"....So then the dog starts to want other dogs to go away, because they cause him pain. Voila...Leash agression. It is identified when a dog is fine with dogs EXCEPT when on a leash. How to fix it? It is always harder to undo a negative behavior than to create one. You will need to change all the negative experiences that your dog has had on leashes, when other dogs are around. This will mean no longer using a pinch collar, and making every experience of meeting dogs when on leash a postive one. I would be taking the dog out on a loose flat collor, or a gentle leader if control is required. I would watch the body language for how close you can get before the negative behavior starts. You will need to work "below" threshold, when your dog is calm and happy. Use treats a verbal rewards to keep your dog happy and do not get any closer for many days... What you can do is gradually shorten this distance. The first week or so might be 2 blocks...The next week or so might be a block and a half....Then a block...etc etc...During this time it is important that your dog NOT be given the opportunity to react. And keep the treats for whenever there is a dog in view all along the walk. No other dogs means no treats. Good luck.. |
| In addition to what Nicole said, another thought that came to mind is protection.
Pyr's are bred to protect their flock. You mentioned this behavior occurs when walking with your other dogs. Perhaps he is in protection mode of his "flock" - your other dogs. The reaction you are describing is also the exact response one would expect from a Pyr seeing another dog/predator while out with his flock. I would be interested to see what his reaction is if you walk him alone - a fairly simple test, for sure. |
| Nicole, Thank you for your input. If that is the case wouldn't Byron react that way to other dogs everytime he is wearing the prong collar? He will not do this if he is at the vets office which will be packed with dogs, or meeting friend's dogs etc. Also Byron has never been dicouraged from meeting and greeting any other dog out on a walk. Nevertheless I will try and see if your method works. Dawn, My thoughts were more along your line of thinking. I realize what this breed's job is, I just did not know how to let him know it is okay, he does not have to protect us. Thanks again. Jack |
jackcjjc wrote: Nicole, Thank you for your input. If that is the case wouldn't Byron react that way to other dogs everytime he is wearing the prong collar? He will not do this if he is at the vets office which will be packed with dogs, or meeting friend's dogs etc. Also Byron has never been dicouraged from meeting and greeting any other dog out on a walk. Nevertheless I will try and see if your method works.
Dawn, My thoughts were more along your line of thinking. I realize what this breed's job is, I just did not know how to let him know it is okay, he does not have to protect us. Thanks again. Jack Dogs do not generalize very well. That means that they may react a certain way only under certain situations, but not others. How often do we say "He will sit and stay so well in the kitchen, but once we are outside he forgets everything.." ? So his reaction would therefore be under specific conditions. e.g. outside wlaking and dogs approach. The vet visits do not fall under the same specific conditions. That is how a learned behavior works. I thought about the whole protectiveness of Pyrs, but would be more inclined to think that a guarding instict would kick in more at at vet's office, where he might feel more inclined to protect in close quaters. Obviously that is not the case. Instincts tend to kink in all the time, no matter what the specific conditions are...like a beagle smells the ground and zones out everywhere....  ...So guarding would be guarding, no matter where. |
| What I did when training my dogs to ignore obviously enticing sights: squirrels, other dogs, children playing was to shorten up the leash, speak their name and keep them in a tight heel to me, getting them to focus on me. If necessary, that sharp 'ch!' sound like Cesar Milan makes, or clicks in the back of my throat. Something a little unusual, but enough to make them look at me. If they started to pull in the direction of the distraction, I would sort of gently body check them: allow my body to bump into theirs to guide them in the direction I wanted them to go. Really so gentle a touch it wouldn't have knocked over a toddler, but it has been effective. All the while absolutely focussed on the fact that of course my dog would listen to me and not be distracted. Now my OES are not nearly as big as a Great Pyr. so this might not work.
The other thing is that I think dogs are extra sensitive to their people's vibes--at least mine are. My dogs love to meet people everywhere. We live near a college campus and frequently take walks through the campus. It's a pretty walk and we feel it is part of our civic duty to give homesick college kids a chance to pet some big balls of fluff while they tell us all about how much they miss their pets at home. Funny how parents and sibs are never mentioned. In the winter, the after dinner walk is in the dark, with street lights, so the dogs are used to meeting people in the dark, including groups of rather intoxicated college students. All this is fine and good and the more the merrier as far as my dogs go. Except: One evening, I heard someone behind us, trying to initiate conversation. It had been a long day, and the sidewalks were particularly nasty and it was starting to snow/sleet--again, so I just wanted to get home as soon as I could, avoiding iced over puddles as much as I could. I thought it was a student at first, but no, it was a middle aged man--rather average looking as opposed to obviously creepy, who was asking me questions about the dogs. Thing is, his questions were distracting the dogs, and I really wanted to get home, so I said I was sorry we didn't have time to talk because I really had to get home. I was a little irritated: most people would have picked up on my lack of interest in conversation much earlier. My begging off did not dissuade him: he kept commenting on the dogs, calling to them, trying to distract them. I was getting annoyed, but said nothing: I didn't want to give the jerk a reaction. We were about a block from home. Archie, who sees himself as being in charge of protecting us, turned and barked aggressively at the man, pulling on the leash. He's never, ever done that before or since. I think the guy was ok---just a jerk who was amused that he could irritate a 5 ft tall woman walking with about 250 lbs of dogs on icy sidewalks. I think that Archie knew I was irritated and was warning the guy off. Or maybe the guy was creepier than I thought and Archie picked up on that. Anyways, this is the first human I have ever seen Archie not like, other than when the mailman is putting mail through the door (face to face, Archiel loves him). |
| Sometimes dog reactivity can be misread as aggression. In my own dogs case it is really more because she is trying to warn other dogs off. "Hey look at me I am a big bad dog don't mess with me" she is really a bit insecure. I tried the traditioanl training methods with no luck we are now tring control unleashed - where the dog is basically rewarded for looking at what bothers them (another dog a bike etc) and then checking back in with you. you can find out much on the web by searching the topic and I heartily recommend the book Control Unleashed by Leslie Mcdevitt. we worked with a behaviorist for over a year and I was very unhappy with the results. we found this program (and a new behaviorist) and within a month had positive results. there is much more about relaxation training, leash work etc, but I can't do it justice here |
| Tgir, Kerry......thank you for your input. This is frustrating for me because he is great in every other aspect. I cannot even pinpoint when or what started this behavior because prior to this he walked on the leash fine when dogs would pass us. I also walk my dogs on a college campus everyday and numerous people will come up to us or stop their cars to get out and say Hi to them. He is fine with all that. What I have been doing now is if I see another dog coming down our path, I just take another route to avoid the dog. I also have been trying to distract him and tell him what a good boy he is when he is calm. He just gets a look of anxiety when he encounters another dog. He is not barking, snarling aggressive, he just seems anxious. Thanks again. Jack |
| Hi Jack,
Reading your post several times I also had the first impression from your description that it's more a guarding resource towards his pack mates. I have a question for you. Amongst his siblings is he the alpha? If so, that may explain his behavior regarding other dogs - his breed and perhaps one of his brothers is (weak) in his eyes and needs protecting? Dogs sense things sometimes that we humans can't and perhaps one of the other dogs in your pack has something which causes other dogs to react. This may be why your boy reacts the way he does, trying to protect his brother. Although time consuming I wonder if you could perhaps try to walk each dog two at a time, with him always being the other one? That way it's a process of elimination in some ways to see if perhaps it's actually one of his brothers he's feeling protective towards. The fact he doesn't do it with you - he sees you as his alpha and doesn't need the protection. Anyhow this is just quesswork on my part but may give you something else to consider. I can certainly relate as for 18 years Blue reacts exactly the same way on our walks. It has improved over time and I do a number of things when I see other dogs. Block his view, make him sit if there is no other place to go and distract while the other dog passes. I hope you find the answer and best of luck to you. Marianne |
| Hi Marianne, I know there has been times when Byron has try to command the alpha role but Owen, my golden retreiver, always puts him in his place. The other thought I had was going back to Pyrs being guard dogs. We always walk the same route everyday. I was wondering if Byron has determined, in his mind, that this is his turf that needs to be patrolled and when he sees another dog on it, it causes him to be anxious. I am grasping at straws now trying to figure this out. Thanks for your input. Jack |
| Here's a thought for consideration. I have no idea whether it will make sense to you, or will be useful to you.
Byron was aggressive when he saw another dog on your daily route. You were naturally alarmed and Byron knew but perhaps did not know WHY you were alarmed. But he sensed it and instead of calming down, continued barking, etc. Now, when you see another dog on your daily route, you anticipate Byron's barking, etc, and feel worried about it. Byron senses that you are worried, and he reacts to your worry about the other dog. If you can compose your mind such that you are certain in your own brain that Byron will do only what you want him to do: continue to walk quietly and ignore the other dogs, this may be picked up by Byron. Your calm self assurance and attitude will transfer to your dog. If you can manage it, try walking Byron without the other dogs for a while, until you can get a grip on this. Gradually add the other dogs. I know this would be a pain, having to do two separate walks, but it might be helpful. What I have noticed on my walks with my 3 is that if I am relaxed and sure that everybody will behave well, they do. If I am distracted or worried that someone will misbehave, sure enough, someone does. Also, somehow my dogs can tell if they see a squirrel that I have not seen: If I see it first, they ignore it. If I don't notice it, it is quickly brought to my attention by the two young ones excitedly trying to drag me to get the squirrel. So, I am especially alert. Unless I see someone who appears not to be able to control their dogs, or if the other dogs or people seem anxious about my 3, I don't usually change my route. I might ask if our dogs can meet. Frankly, I see dogs and owners who look at my 3 and decide that they'd rather not take us on, even with mine walking very calmly by my side. |
Marianne wrote: Hi Jack, Note to self... do NOT read this thread aloud at the airport on Tuesday. |
| LOL Ron, you crack me up. Tgir, Thanks again for your input. i know you have something there. I do know that the dogs can sense what I am feeling. I do now tense up when I see another dog approaching and I am trying to train myself not to do that. I do believe that is part of the problem. Thanks again for some good advice and thoughts. Jack |
jackcjjc wrote: Tgir, Kerry......thank you for your input. This is frustrating for me because he is great in every other aspect. I cannot even pinpoint when or what started this behavior because prior to this he walked on the leash fine when dogs would pass us. I also walk my dogs on a college campus everyday and numerous people will come up to us or stop their cars to get out and say Hi to them. He is fine with all that. What I have been doing now is if I see another dog coming down our path, I just take another route to avoid the dog. I also have been trying to distract him and tell him what a good boy he is when he is calm. He just gets a look of anxiety when he encounters another dog. He is not barking, snarling aggressive, he just seems anxious.
Thanks again. Jack SOunds just like my dog. I have had amazing results with the CU program. turns out I am a little distracted when I am some where with the dogs (ADD is a family trait  ). The training is really focusing on teaching me how to be there all the time for them and for them reinforcing that i am reading them and ready to step in.
I would recommend finding a CU group in your area (or trainer who is familiar with it) also reading the book. I have to admit I got a lot more from the trainer and the Yahoo list than the book. My dog had been diagnosed as resource guarding, aggressive, leash aggressive, reactive you name it. Turns out she is a bit nervouse and is always checking in with me for how to react. If I don't give her a clue she does the hey stay away from me barking routine. I also did do all the medical work ups first to rule out anything else as well. |
Didn't find exactly what you're looking for? Search again here:
Custom Search
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|