Sire on site
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| Most will warn you that byb use "sire on site" as a catch phrase, but the experienced and established breeders have both on site sometimes as well. |
| For all my guys both were on site. If the breeder uses a stud dog other than her own I wouldn't expect him to be there. |
| Sire on site in most cases is the sign of a BYB, or worse, a mill.
The person has specifically purchased a male and female dog(s) for breeding, and breeds them over and over. Most reputable breeders are not so "lucky" to have the perfect genetic match for their dog sitting right there. That said, it is not impossible, but should serve as a red flag and be checked out. |
| I would be careful how much you put into that whole phrase....
The best stud for any given bitch is not necessarily even in the same country let alone the same house, but I certainly wouldn't expect a breeder not to use their own stud, after all, they had a reason/reasons to obtain that stud. |
| Well, to me, having the sire on site has always seemed like it would indicate a BYB, so I was just wondering if maybe I was being too quick to judge or incorrect in my thinking. |
| To me if they only own a male and female and do not show, this would indicate a BYB. Show breeders like myself do use our own studs, but we also breed to others we don't own. Like myself, I imported a male from Brazil who would complement my dogs, but I have not used him every litter I have. But if a breeder is using one stud dog on EVERY dog they own every time, that to me would be a pretty good indication of a BYB to me, or a breeder who is just breeding to sell puppies. Just my opinion. |
| thanks for the explanation willowsprite and blueshire. I have noticed this when looking at kennels' sites. If a kennel occasionally uses their own stud and has the ofa and pedigrees available on their site I think their kennel warrants a consideration. Pedigrees and good hips speak volumes. If a breeder has found a combo that works for them and occasionally studs from their own, I personally don't see a problem. Just my opinion, Dee |
DandAbi wrote: thanks for the explanation willowsprite and blueshire. I have noticed this when looking at kennels' sites. If a kennel occasionally uses their own stud and has the ofa and pedigrees available on their site I think their kennel warrants a consideration. Pedigrees and good hips speak volumes. If a breeder has found a combo that works for them and occasionally studs from their own, I personally don't see a problem. Just my opinion, Dee
I don't think it would ever be a problem given those conditions, I think it's using the phrase that makes it problematic. Sire on site on its own means nothing but a lot of ads will toss that around, like "ooh, you can come and see the how good the father looks because he's right here," as if owning the father is somehow a bonus. Who cares? If I trust my breeder, I'll know they made a good choice of sire and it makes no difference if she owns him or not. I think the best question to ask the breeder who says "sire on site" is "Why did you pick him as a sire?" That's what really makes the difference. They should be able to tell you what qualities the male has that will work with the female to produce good traits in the puppies. |
| Very good point Jill. In other words, know what the phrases actually mean and have enough information to ask the right questions. And, if I'm interpreting what Dawn is saying is that in most cases the byb have learned what the "in vogue" phrases are and are using them as a selling tool. |
| Yes, another BYB selling tool that really infuriates me is "Champion Bloodlines". They like to brag on the hardwork of others who actually put a Championship on their dog before breeding in order to sell their pups. Champion bloodlines means absolutely nothing to me, as even when I breed two Champions together not all of their offspring are worthy of breeding, regardless of their pedigree. A pedigree is only as good as the dog itself!! |
I talked to a breeder once who told me that her yet unborn litter would all be show quality. When I asked how she could determine that she told me that the parents were both champions so of course the litter would be as well  . No, I didn't get a dog from her  |
| Although my bitch is a Multi-Champion and the Sire I intend using is a Multi-Champion according to some peoples sums we should have a litter with a multitude of champions. Unfortunately or rather thank god this is not so, like every other breeder you have to wait and when one or even two have show quality then you have been lucky. Regarding Sire on site I do not find this so bad but then we do not seem to have the problem with BYB or puppy mills here in Europe to the same extent as you have in the states. I have a nice boy with me at the moment and I would like to use him next time round for my girl and therefore he would also be a "Sire on site" |
Blueshire wrote: Champion bloodlines means absolutely nothing to me, as even when I breed two Champions together not all of their offspring are worthy of breeding, regardless of their pedigree. A pedigree is only as good as the dog itself!!
I'd like to offer the perspective of the potential buyer since this is what I was just a few months ago. Champion bloodlines meant something to me. Not as it would affect the puppy but a reflection of the breeder. Did they show? Did they ensure CH in their pedigree? What other lines are in the pedigree? Another words, who "is in bed" with the breeder. I'm assuming a breeder protects all their yrs of work in their line. Associating themselves with another breeder can be risky. I'm sure it is not taken likely (mind you this is the buyer's perception-I'm not a breeder). Therefore, who trusts them? This says a lot to me. Let me say to the breeders out there, yes, your work and dedication is verifyable and tangible. It is in the pedigree. It is in the time you spent achieving CH titles and the careful selection of your line. Your work, from my perspective is admired. This builds a bridge of trust between the buyer and breeder. If the breeder then says, this pup has show potential, than I have faith that the pup might. Because the trust is there. If the trust is not there, I simply don't buy from that breeder. |
| For me, I was looking for good temperment and so I liked being able to see the sire and know what kind of personality he had, as well as the dam's. |
| I guess maybe I should clarify what I meant. I typically see BYB boasting "Champion Bloodlines". When you ask for the pedigree, you see maybe one Champion 2, 3 or 4 generations back. They themselves do not show their dogs, most of them will say its "all political" or will have some excuse why THEY do not show the dogs they have decided should be bred. So on one hand, they do not feel it is necessary to show their own dogs to confirm their merit to be bred. So why do they feel they must boast about the Champions behind their dogs that they did not own or show? I'll tell you why! Because it sounds good to people looking to buy a puppy! Like I must say again, just because a dog has Champions in its bloodlines does not make it worthy to be bred! |
| Ditto to what amber just posted. If you go back in even a BYB's pedigree there will always be Ch. Dogs in the background somewhere, if they can supply that information.
I will not breed a dog unless they have there Championship title and are truly representative of the breed as judged and awarded by a third party (THE JUDGE). I will not use a stud dog to my bitches unless they are Champions too and proven in the showring. Not all in a litter is show quality or worthy to continue on the next generation. If a breeder says all in a litter is show quality then they are best to be avoided big time.  |
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Quote: I will not breed a dog unless they have there Championship title and are truly representative of the breed as judged and awarded by a third party (THE JUDGE). I will not use a stud dog to my bitches unless they are Champions too and proven in the showring.
Lisa, not always are the best dogs being shown for some reason or another, when I lived in Europe I have used dogs before they were finished, knowing what the dogs were like and what was behind them. I sold a puppy down here as a pet( it is difficult to find show homes the way it is and you cannot keep them all) He is absolutely georgeous, and debating using him at one point, he will never be shown, but is an excellent representative of the breed |
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