Stop barking at me and running away - England
He barks at you, I have tried Ceasers way of holding him down and showing whose the boss, which he does really well, and relaxes well to that, but it doesnt stop him! I have tried saying no, ignoring the behaviour, going to another and even squirting him with a small water pistol, however you do have to catch him first, and even in a small space, boy can he move and what a game this ends up being A GAME, I am getting upset and close to tears becuase I dont know what to do anymore, and he runs around barking then biting you and running off for the chase me. Advise please from you experienced puppy guys, funny thing is, our Mags and Tino were both with us from weeks old and did so well, I dont remember this stage, unless its becuase he has learnt behaviour! Took Ben to puppy class for training, and there is only 4 of us in the class this week, and the other 3 dogs all went for him, I couldnt believe it, poor Ben, the trainer told me that this happens on the first class when they get to know each other, and also because old english sheepdogs eyes cant be seen and this poses a problem to other dogs? Have I done something wrong in my training, I need to stop this behaviour as best I can PLEASE HELP Helen Sorry I have nto signed in - I am at work and dont have my password on me, and couldnt get this off my mind today |
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It sounds like misdirected/frustrated herding behavior (no, that doesn't mean he'd know what to with with sheep or even needs to see any at this naughty stage  ) Mine have behaved like this at that age and older - but not directed at me, rather directed at other dogs in the household. They like those kinds of games, barking at to get the other dog to move, the nipping, the chasing or asking to be chased - games.
What you describe could signify he needs more exercise, certainly more structure. It doesn't have to mean more physical exercises (though that would be nice) but definitely more mental exercise. If he were mine, he'd be onlead and under my control until he could conduct himself with a bit more decorum. And I'd be doing exactly what you're doing -- taking him to obedience class. And practicing - a lot. Making a game of it, but not of the rowdy kind for right now. There may also be a bit of attention seeking it in. And probably a bit too much energy and no nice outlet for it. I won't tell you to find some nice playmates so he can blow off some of that steam with his own kind, because for right now, unless they were well-matched, he'd either torment them and learn that bullying works or get his hairy behind kicked (hm, the latter wouldn't be so bad, but it takes the right dog to put him in his place and not simply cause "issues" with other dogs down the line). Anybody near you have a sweet, no nonsense OES bitch who has had a litter or two and who knows the fine art of teaching adolescents proper respect for their elders and betters? And, yes, your instructor is correct that OES can easily antagonize other dogs simply because of their look: because with all that hair, often covering their eyes, they look funny and they are harder to read. BUT, if the entire class reacted like that, I'd also take a guess that he may be giving off naughty boy vibes and his puppy licence has expired and if they are older dogs and not puppies they may be reading him well enough to know to tell him "don't even think about it, Bubba Boy!" What I would do is always take him out on lead for now to potty, increase his walks (on lead) and keep a leash on him in the house. In fact, tether the little fart to your waist when you're home and he's loose. Later you can graduate to a tab so you have something to grab quickly. You don't have to do this forever, but at least give it a couple of weeks and make the change in freedom dramatic enough to disrupt the behavior enough that you have a chance to establish who actually runs the show and teach him some manners while you're at it. That is often a testing (obnoxious!) age. He's just being a basically normal, albeit over the top puppy, and my guess is he needs the basic rules kindly but firmly spelled out to him. I.e. he needs to earn his freedom. Puppies! 
You know why OES puppies are so cute? So we'll let them live to be adults!!! Kristine  |
| Thanks for the reply, it is reassuring to realise that this is not just my problem and that other OES are monsters at times. I agree with your comment about about the older OES, our Mags is helping, she is 11 in April and has hipdisplacia, but heck she is doing so well and tells him whn enough is enough for her, becuase he tries doing the same to her.
I despair whn he is running at me, even today when my back was turned and I picked somethin off the floor, he ran and bit my back (nipping playfully), and ran off then back to bark at me, he may be a puppy, but our Ben is rather big for 8 months, I wonder when he will stop growing, hes going to be big!!! with even bigger teeth!!! However on a positive note, I took your advice on not just physical exercise but mental aswell, and on this afternoon s walk we did training, fun and the walk, and he has been so much more calmer for the rest of the day. He is out with my partenr on his walk at the moment and we both agree to doing all three. Just hope that when Paul comes back in, Ben doesnt sit and bark at him whilst he eats his tea, he keeps barking and barking whilst he eats and not sure what to do with him then, and thats after hes been out.# Once agian thanks for your help, and I must try and find out how to submit more photos on here as I cant rememeber Helenxx |
| Kristine, I love the way you put things into words! Quote: his puppy licence has expired and if they are older dogs and not puppies they may be reading him well enough to know to tell him "don't even think about it, Bubba Boy!"  I was going to say the same thing.
I agree with everything you said I would only add the "Extension Burst". This is when Ben realizes he is not getting from you what he is used to (attention) and he will do it more and more and then quit. So, when you think he is getting worse he is actually getting better. He is trying to figure out why you are not listening to him anymore. They learn fast though! Oh, and Helen. My lab/greyhound was adopted at 6 months and he did exactly the same thing! With a greyhound's speed. 
One more thing! During your walks when you are doing obedience, you can also change your speed, stop, make him sit, down, sit (make him do some push ups), walk faster, slow down, change direction, etc. This will make him pay attention to you even more. Keep up the good work! |
| You've gotten good advice and it seems to be taking affect.
A couple of things: at 8 months, your guy is very much a puppy and will be until he is 2 or 3 years old. Which means a lot of energy and enthusiasm and not much sense. Please keep this in mind: he's a rambunctious pre-teen, testing out his limits. Your job is to set and enforce limits. Re: nipping. It is a herding thing, and also something puppies do. It sounds like he's just trying to get your attention to play, but it isn't acceptable. And it is very painful. So, don't be afraid to say OW! in a loud, sharp voice. Tell him to "GIT!" in a loud, sharp voice, pointing in the direction you want him to go with your fully extended arm and finger. You may have to repeat this a few times, each time being loud and firm and sharp in your voice and gesture. If he moves toward you, turn away from him, like you are shunning him. Look cross and angry (but in control). Invite him back and give him attention if he approaches quietly. Use a quiet, soothing voice if he is being nice. Maybe it will feel artificial to exaggerate your tone, but it will help. |
Quote: I despair whn he is running at me, even today when my back was turned and I picked somethin off the floor, he ran and bit my back (nipping playfully), and ran off then back to bark at me, he may be a puppy, but our Ben is rather big for 8 months, I wonder when he will stop growing, hes going to be big!!! with even bigger teeth!!!
That describes exactly how my toe play - with each oteher. They wouln't dream of doing it to me (well maybe Marley would but she is very intelligent and won't let on that that is what is going on behind all that fur)
Anyway I would drop the Ceaser routine and just work more on obedience and positive reinforcement. these guys respond very well to positive training and I believe some of the more traditional ways of establishing "dominance" back fire on them. This is just my experience form years of sheepies and years of classes seeing what works, what makes things tolerable and what backfires. And if you can, remove him when he starts the barking and you are eating - Meal time is the one time we are "dogless" in our house. they go to their spaces and we eat in ours - eveybody is happy!! |
tgir wrote: If he moves toward you, turn away from him, like you are shunning him.
Excellent advice! Especially on giving voice to the pain his nipping is causing. Huge component of taming the wildebeest
I just wanted to point out one thing that is so counter-intuitive to us humans: In dog language, turning away from him is actually an invitation for him to come in closer Yes, read that again. I use it a lot to entice shy dogs to come to and engage with me. I lean into and over my bodyspace offenders, especially jumpers. Because that's the signal to back off. And I mean I get quietly obnoxious about turning the tables and getting into their space without ever saying a word. I don't have a problem doing this with almost any puppy, but if it was an adult dog that I didn't know the background of and whom I suspected had some potential delusions of his own grandeur (dominance) - nope. That's basically a challenge. A softer dog who respects you will get it, a really soft dog may fall apart on you (you don't want that either), but a dominant dog may decide to take you on...not so good If it still seems counter-intuitive, think about dogs: how they play bow (make themselves smaller) and then run the other way to get dogs to follow them to initiate fun. But how they get tall and hover over their shoulder (get into their space) when they're challenging them. And then it starts to make sense. Kata - you know what I'm talking about here, right? Does my explanation make sense? Kristine |
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