Barking and whining at neighbors, dogs, squirrels
First a bit of background... We have a 4 year old male OES that is just the biggest Teddybear/baby in the world. He is literally the most submissive dog I've ever owned. You know the dog training thing where you put them down on their side and hold them there (until they stop struggling)...he never fought back...seriously...he never did. We have a 2 year old that wrestles with him and he's good to take it, when he's had enough he just leaves the room until she finds something else to distract her. He is an "inside" dog, he says in the same room with the family. He has a dog bed in the TV room and he has a bed in the laundry room where we lock him up at night and when no one is home. When he's outside he's on a lead that is anchored to the house. It's probably 15' long. He's only outside to go potty for the most part. We've taught him to ring a bell that hangs from the handle on the patio door, so we put him out whenever he rings it. He's been through puppy preschool and kindergarten. To be honest he's not the brights dog in the world, so he pretty much thinks that every command is a "down" or a "dizzy"...no matter what you tell him 
He's goes insane when the trash truck comes once a week, but that's not really a big problem. I'm sure there's info I'm missing, but you get the idea. The problem is that over the last few months he's getting "anxious" toward other dogs, the neighbors and their kids, and the squirrels that are always in the back yard. I don't know that I want to call it aggressive, but that's why I'm posting here to see what all the sheepie experts think. He barks (and it sounds VERY mean) when the neighbor dog is out. It's kind of a BARK,mooo (you know the sheepie moo/groan), whine, BARK BARK BARK, whine, wimper, wimper, whoof,whine,whoooof...etc It's not like a mean guard dog would be BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK. If that makes any sense I dunno lol Put it this way. I had a pretty aggressive Chow as a kid. It was just a mean angry dog. It's barking was a TOTALLY different thing...He kep barking until he actually realized that there wasn't a way for him to eat you... Murphy is more "I'm going to bark so you don't mess with me...but please don't let the <squire ll, neighbor kid, neighbor dog almost a block away> get me, whine whine whine...BARK...I gotta sound mean so they leave me alone" At least the that's my impression It's the same w/ the neighbors, neighbors kids, squirrels. He will ring to go outside, just to "stand guard" and bark at pretty much anything that moves. I'm getting to the point where I'm planning on buying a bark collar this weekend. I hate to do it, but I've got to do something. I think it may be an issue with him being TOO submissive and being nervous/anxious, but if that's it I don't know what to do about it. I'm hoping that someone here will have some grate idea that will help us solve this issue. We're getting pretty desperate. The neighbors are getting irritated He's such a good dog, but I dunno what to do. Any ideas would be very much appreciated! Thanks! |
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| Maybe he's barking as a defense mechanism. If he's tied up he may feel
vulnerable to a potential attack and is barking as a warning not to mess with him, as you said. Do you walk him? That would expose him to other dogs and people and may help lessen his anxiousness. Or try taking him to Petsmart and walking him around, most people there are dog friendly and willing to stop and chat for a few minutes. Having had a backyard barker I can sympathize, good luck! |
| It sounds like your sheepie is "talking" to the other dogs. OES love people, kids and other dogs. Everyday, around 4:00 Violet heads outside and starts with a woof here and a woof there to see if any of the other dogs are out yet. Violet is the head of the "coffee" clattchers here. She knows when the neighbors get home from work and let the dogs out. We have a Weinerwimer (sp?) and a English Spanial (gorgious dog) who live behind us. A Samoy (sp) that lives next to them. A Golden Retriever who moved in next door about two weeks ago. They also have voice contact with a "pit bull" a couple of door down behind us also. So I hear all kinds of "woofs" and "moos" and that sheepie high pitch thing going on. So maybe it is just your sheepie talking and hoping someone will respond outside the fence.
It the dogs are barking too much, I make them come in the house for a while until they settle down. (reminder I have three dogs) Good luck with you sheepie, I hope you find a solution soon. |
| if indeed it is a case of being too nervous arouns other dogs/squirrels/kids/etc, you need to work on his becoming confident that he can trust you to take care of him. I would recommend reading control unleashed by Leslie Mcdevitt - there is also a CU Yahoo list that is helpful. Putting a bark collar on him would probably make him even less secure if this is the issue - it is hard to know without observing the dog. |
| First of all, the term "aggressive" is overused. This is not an aggressive dog! He may be undersocialized, underexercised or anxious because he's being left on a tie-out but he's not aggressive.
Forget the bark collar. The only kind we would use are the citronella and not even those without supervision. The cartridges are rather expensive and most dogs can empty one in no time and not even be fazed by it. Don't even think about a shock collar  IMO, your dog needs to be walked more, left on a tie-out less and socialized with other animals.
Our dogs bark at the neighbor's dogs as well but from inside our house. Usually just a "look" from us is enough to stop it because they know they're not supposed to be doing it. |
Quote: Murphy is more "I'm going to bark so you don't mess with me...but please don't let the <squire ll, neighbor kid, neighbor dog almost a block away> get me, whine whine whine...BARK...I gotta sound mean so they leave me alone"
This is the typical developement in a dog that is tethered. He is tied up so cannot escape. He is submissive and anxious because he is vulnerable. Continue to tie him up and it will only get worse. A bark collor will make him dangerous, unpredictable and neurotic, as when he tries to defend himself due to his fear he will be punished, thus causing more stress. He will learn to fear whatever he barks at, because he will see that as being the source of his pain. Untie your dog and scrap the bark collar idea. If you cannot put up a fence then go outside with him on a leash so he is not alone. He cannot be given the opportunity to continue to behave in this manner because it will be very difficult to undo, once it becomes the norm. He is stressed, fearful and lacks confidence. You need to work on the source of his problem, which is his fear, to get him feeling more secue. Good luck. |
| He soulnds lovely, but I agree that I think it is a bad idea to tie him up outside, for all of the reasons mentioned. Mind you, I grew up with hunting dogs who were tied up until my dad built a kennel for them. They were not barking dogs and there wasn't a lot of activity for them to bark at. This was the norm back during my childhood, but even then, I thought it wasn't a good idea.
I also have 3 OES who do the typical woof! woof! Don't you come near! (backing up all the way). If they bark too much at passers by (back yard is fenced), I bring them in. They pretty much know: If Sherman starts barking at someone walking by, Sophie will just come wait by the back door for the inevitable: she knows they are all coming in. It is really a good idea to teach your guy to walk on a leash and to walk him at least a couple of times a day. This is sort of a pain, in a way, especially with a small child, but worth it to make room in your schedule. It will help him get the exercise he needs, get him used to other sights and sounds and other people and animals, so they won't seem so threatening to him. It is also a good training/bonding experience for you and your guy. I do know how hard it is to make the time--we got our first OES when my kids were small, too. As much as I really am not in the mood to walk my dogs sometimes, as soon as we get started, I am always, always, always glad: it is relaxing and enjoyable for me, as well as for them. I'm not sure where you live, but we live in Minnesota, where we have some fairly cold and nasty weather. I still am always glad once I get going on a walk, even if it's pretty horrible outside. I feel refreshed and invigorated, and I know my dogs love the walks as well. Is it possible to arrange for him to meet the neighbor's dog, if it is a nice, well socialized dog? My dogs love to play with the lab next door, and in fact, any dog they come across, if they have a chance (although some dogs are quite overwhelmed at the sight of 3 OES and decline to play). Since your guy has been to puppy classes, I am assuming he is used to walking on a leash. If not, the learning to walk on leash will be a learning experience for both of you. If you find this an issue, please consider taking him back for some classes. I promise you will not regret it! |
| Let me be clear...He isn't tied up for long periods of time...He's just put on a lead to go to the bathroom.
Additionally, If I've left you with the impression that he only does it when he's tied up outside, that's NOT the case...he does when he's inside too. From our living room he can see 3 other house (2 with dogs and 1 with kids) by looking out the back door...and we've got tress in the back so he sees squirrels all the time 
So it's not that he's left outside for extended periods of time and feels threatened by all the world outdoors. At times he rings the bell to go outside JUST to bark
Hope that clarify things a bit...some of the response seem to gotten the wrong idea...Sorry if I wasn't clear. To the specific points/recommendations you all suggested (that you all by the way) We don't take him for walks often because he pulls like a horse! He's a BIG boy and can do a pretty good job of dragging you down the street!
We play fetch with him for probably around 20min a day. He'll bring a ball over and he'll bring the ball back maybe a dozen times before he gets tired and goes and takes another nap I'd say on average we do this around 4-6 times a day.
As for the socialization...He has been to puppy preschool and kindergarten. In addition he's groomed every 8-12 weeks and when he is...he spends the day at a doggy day care playing with other dogs (they do the grooming and let him play until it's time to be groomed) He's also boarded there a few times a year for a few days, so he's around other dogs for a few days at a time there....so it's not like he's NEVER around other animals. I'll have to look into "control unleashed" and see if that helps his confidence. btw...I think "shocker" collars are cruel...I never said I'd get a shock collar, just a bark collar...I was think specifically of the ones that make the high pitched noise as I'd read the citronella ones aren't very effective. I just can't imagine that it's actually a fear of being attacked. the squirrels are outside, up in trees, 75 feet away, while he's inside. He bull charges the window and barks (you know how they are..they "ACT" really tough...we just know better ) but then does the backup, whining thing.
Like I said originally I think the best way to describe it is as anxious. I KNOW he's not an aggressive dog, but I think there is a chance that is this is let unchecked then it could get worse to it could turn into fear biting. I appreciate everyones input!!! And I'd appreciate any other input anyone else has or anything else anyone has to add! We appreciate your help! Thanks! |
| if he is barking from inside the house he may be nervous or he may be bored. Pulling when he walks is unacceptable. Until you can train him out of it get a Gentle leader - or head collar - you will be amazed at the difference. |
| Yes, a gentle leader is a good idea. Sophie is tiny (for one of my dogs) but she was a fierce puller. A gentle leader, in addition to puppy classes, really, really helped. Pound for pound, a dog of any size, almost, can really pull a human around. Mine could easily pull me all over, but don't. It isn't because I'm so strict or because I've used heavy handed training with them: just a gentle leader for Sophie--and mostly because pretty often I walk 3 at a time and having one pull a lot is just not going to work, so I needed something first. It is important to fit the collar on the dog properly.
Not only will walking your dog help get him accustomed to other sights and sounds and people and animals, but will also help tire him out. It's not just physical exercise, but also mental exercise. A note about the collars with a high pitched sound: a friend has a high strung beagle who barked and barked--as beagles often do. They got one of those collars with the high frequency emitters, and it did work--the dog doesn't bark, at least not if he's wearing the collar, but it made him even more high strung and anxious. He's a sweet dog, but he's nothing like the beagles from my childhood. Is it possible to let your dog meet the other dogs and other people? This would help, especially if he could have very frequent contact with other dogs and other people, instead of just periodically when he's being groomed or boarded---a situation that may (or may not) cause some anxiety in your dog anyways. My crew bark ferociously when the mail man puts mail through the slot on the door, of if packages are left. However, when they are able to actually meet the carriers face to face, they love them and are calm and relaxed. They are merely guarding the house from whatever evil is trying to break in. I still quiet them, with a firm quiet! which works pretty well. Sophie and Sherman were real barkers as puppies. What helped me with that, a lot, was a squirt bottle filled with water. It doesn't hurt them or the house or anybody who accidentally is squirted, but it does distract them from the barking. I have also used an empty pop can with a a couple of pennies inside, taped shut. A sharp shake also startles them out of their barking. I don't have to use these any more, but it did help a lot for when I needed it. |
| Thanks for the great advice.
I think we're going to call tomorrow about 1 on 1 training with the boarding place/groomer/puppy preschool place. The trainer we had was great, so maybe she can help us "get into his head" and get him fixed up. I'll let you all know what we find out! |
| That little moo moo sound you sheepie is making when he can't get to the kids, dogs or squirrel is a message that he can't get what he wants...my dogs use the same language and I have pretty well figured that out.
Your sheepie has the windows of the world, but can't get out and do what he really wants which is play with the kids, chance the dogs ect. My dogs feels the same way when they see someone, or something go by the window and they want to be a part of it...natural. Believe it or not, I am only 5 ft tall and walk 2 aussies and my one sheepie everyday TOGETHER. Yes, they have been know to pull, sometimes at the SAME time. lol What I have found is to make the walk like a job. Another words, keep them walking, don't let them keep stopping and sniffing everything. Halfway through the walk I allow them to stop and sniff for about one minute and then we move on. We walk at a good pace. I am always giving commands, turn right, left, stay straight, car stay straight, mind you business (if they get excited about another dog ect). I was having problems with China, one of my Aussie's and so would bring a can with coins in it and when she would see something she wanted and would start to pull, I shook the can and got her attention back. I only had to do that for three walks. I have found the more you walk them the better it gets each time out. I am now training my Aussie puppy who we just adopted a few weeks ago. She is 8mts old and is doing great on her walks. Don't give up...it will get better! |
It never worked for us on Dudley....too much hair!!  |
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