SHE BITE ME!
I can't believe she bite me! What happened was as some know I have a rabbit which was here several months before she came along. When we got her we tried holding the rabbit (T) and letting her (Lucy/oes) come to him smell and get used to T in my lap. Which did NOT work. Then I tried having my son holding the dog and me the rabbit and allow some time together, notta, then I though maybe away from the "tertory" it would work...NOPE! We then tried telling her gentle every time she went to his cage she tortued him. Lucy (oes) took the run of the house. But Thumper was here first he was a rescue and in bad shape. Potty trained and all.... Well none of my attempts worked so finally I took charge and realized that if I gave the bunny some power back in this home he would realize this is his house too. So with all of lucy shananganes I started to make lucy sit than lay when T was out. Well, I did that tonight and (T)umper was right under to the dining room table I had lucy sit- then down... she would not do it, I tried again, sit was ok but down-nope...once more I tried. She fought me then. It was a domanice situation that she was not going to sucome to!!! She reached up and bit my ear. It wasn't hard(I wasn't bleeding) but it was very intentual and very direct. Her message was loud and clear! Thank you all over and over B/C of you alone I knew what to do, and how to handle it!! Educated instinct told me to grab her and wresle her down to the ground and be on top! Win the confertation!! Wow! My poor bunny must have been tortured in his cage when we where not home. Anyway, if it wasn't for your info I would have acted diferently and had a poor outcome. Thank you!!!!!!! alison |
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| Hi Alison,
Wow poor you but glad to hear you did not pull away and let Lucy dominate the situation but took control. I once had to do that to Shaggy many years ago and like the trainer told me at the time flipping them over on their back and grabbing them by the jowls and pulling back I let her know I was in charge. So as people don't get confused this method is only suggested in serious situations..and getting bitten was certainly one of those moments that warranted your actions. I was really glad to hear that you are also taking Thumper into consideration as he's just as important in the household. Way to go!! Good luck and I hope everything works out for you. |
| Marianne. It means so much tome to hear from You. Y ou have been a solid member long before I joined this forum. I am heart broken. I handled it well.
So what do I do now? I still have this bunny. If she will bit me over this situation this bunny does not stand a chance! What do I do? |
| I'm really sorry but most dogs that I have had have also gone crazy to get to bunnies. It is instinct. To them it is not a pet it is a meal. I even had a dog who would tear open the cage if left unattended for a second to get to the bunnies. The smell of that rabbit probably got your dog VERY excited, and her frustration at not being allowed to eat it is probably what led to her biting you. She may not have even realized what she was doing.
Some people I know have successfully managed to get their dogs to be around pet rabbits without a problem, but I think it would require starting off with a puppy. I had to get rid of my rabbits, because there was just no way I could convince my dogs that they were pets and not food. Making sure she knows you are alpha, and continuing to try to socialize her with the bunny are excellent starting points, but don't be too surprised if this is one situation where you just cannot win. |
| Unfortunately I have to agree with Stacey. We had a rabbit when we had our first sheepie, but Buford was older when we got Bugs and they got along fine. They would even sleep next to each other - so adorable!
But it's another story with Drez and our current rabbit, Bandit. Drez was here first, but we've always had a rabbit since we've had her, so it wasn't a new concept. One night we had Bandit out on the floor with Drez nearby. To our horror, she went to bite her head!! Luckily we caught her in time, but that ended that! Bandit now comes out when Drez is safely tucked away somewhere. We don't want to chance that again. I hope you can get them to co-habitate peacefully, but I wouldn't leave them alone. Chris |
| We have 2 chinchillas. So far Zoe is afraid of them. When we are changing their cage and giving them a bath she sniffs them, but pretty much leaves them alone.
I guess we are lucky! |
I love your avatar Bethany!  |
| Hi Lucy,
I had a rabbit for 10 years that laid outside in the backyard with Shaggy although Blue thought it was his dinner for the first couple years. As Shaggy was alpha she'd immediately put Blue in his place if he went after it...took about 5 years then Blue could also be trusted with it. The bunny was a baby when we got it and the dogs were already in the household. It warms my heart now to think back of the bunny (whose name was Stew) and Shaggy laying side by side under a tree. In the evenings Shaggy would herd it back in it's pen. The one thing about Sheepies is they don't have the so called "Prey-drive" that is so dominant in other breeds such as huskies, Malamutes and even the other kind of sheepdogs. Nope our babies have the herding instinct so they may drive them crazy trying to herd them but hopefully won't rip them apart as some breeds will instinctively do. Still Thumper is a rabbit and Lucy is a dog so you may not find a truce in your household for some time and they always need supervision. Here's a suggestion as I've recently had the same problem with Merlin and the cats. I needed drastic measures so Merlin whom previously left them alone had turned to tormenting the little critters so I needed to step in. Please Please everyone that is reading this ...I only suggest this for extreme measures and it's something that my trainer did with Merlin several months ago. First time I visited the trainer for one on one I expressed concern that Merlin once dashed out the open gate at the dog park and out onto a busy road narrowly missing getting hit by a car. I had called him but he was so quick and I was unable to catch up. At that moment Merlin wandered away from me - he took out a piece of chain (about 4 inches in length) and threw it hard at Merlin's butt. Merlin yelped and immediately ran back to my side. I can't tell you how upset I was at the time...he hurt my baby! .......BUT........ Merlin tried again to wander away and this time he threw the chain as hard as he could against the barn wall so it made a loud sound and Merlin ran back to my side as fast as he could. The trainer said he will always run back to a safe place but warned me never to let Merlin or any other pet I may have see you with the chain as you don't want them to become afraid of you. The rest of the class Merlin remained at my side without a leash...if he became distracted and walked away the trainer jingled the chain in his pocket and Merlin came back to me. The trainers theory was you only have to hit them in the butt the ONE time and never let them see you with it, as again you don't ever want your dog to be afraid of you. If you need them to run immediately to your side you are able to throw the chain at great lengths or even out the window and the dog will come running. It sounds mean and I still cringe at the thought of Merlin yelping when he did it. But many times I have thrown the chain to prevent Merlin from chasing after the cats as I throw it in the sink (makes a loud clanging noise) and no matter if Merlin is in the back yard terrorizing the cats he hears the noise and comes running. I'll probably get a lot of heck for this post and while I usually don't condone this sort of thing although the trainer equated it with a Mama Bear letting her cubs know to come to her side immediately! It works but a word of caution I would only use it in extreme circumstances like Lucy going after Thumper and she needs to STOP IMMEDIATELY and come to you or if she was going to race in front of a car. This fellow trains dogs for the movies and is very gentle with them. Good Luck with Lucy and Thumper |
| Hi Alison.
Sorry to hear that you had a scare with your Dog. Lennon bit me when he was 3 months old and I still rememeber how scared I was of him for a couple of days, but like you, I did not back out and corrected him before he realized he could be stronger than me. We had a saint bernard a long time ago that got along with a bunny and a chickend, they were good friends andeven slept together, then my family got a fox terrier and the bunny and chicken were not lucky. Maybe some socialization will help to overcome the trouble with your bunny. Use the squirt bottle method while you try to introduce the bunny to your dog. If he starts behabing improperly, have someone squirt some water on your dog's head (Not the eyes!) without being seen. That worked to correct losts of bad behabiour in Lennon and now we are going to do it with sofa. Does anybody know if spraying the bunny with grannic's bitter apple will be bad for the bunny? Sheepies hate that stuff. |
| We just adopted a Siberian Husky from the pound yesterday evening. My kids and husband were very eager to keep both even though I had read about the prey instinct and told them we shouldn't. The husky who has been a very mellow well dispositioned dog managed to break the molding between the double doors in the garage room addtition that my husband built to go after the rabbit. This happened this morning I went to check up on the husky during lunch. There was no blood that I saw just a stiff rabbit, and his cage tipped over. |
Oh that's terrible. Sorry you have to go through this.  |
| We have a guniea pig, and Remy our OES leaves her completely alone. We even leave the pig have free reign of the backyard...she tends to stay close to her cage but Remy has never tried to harm her.
Neither do our cats...the pig gets free reign in the kitchen, but not being trained is hard to clean up, so it does not happen often. She has always been good, but we started gradually, and under supervision. However wild rabbits live in the area, and if we are off leash Remy will chase after one if she sees it. |
Guest wrote: We just adopted a Siberian Husky from the pound yesterday evening. My kids and husband were very eager to keep both even though I had read about the prey instinct and told them we shouldn't. The husky who has been a very mellow well dispositioned dog managed to break the molding between the double doors in the garage room addtition that my husband built to go after the rabbit. This happened this morning I went to check up on the husky during lunch. There was no blood that I saw just a stiff rabbit, and his cage tipped over.
Rabits, well actually, any small animal, and Sibes do not mix. The pound should not have let this adoption happen. This is so sad. I have 2 OES's and they catch, kill and eat the wild bunnies in my back yard...YUCK!!! |
| I'm sorry. This is very sad. While my Annie will go after a cat or other dogs, she could care less about bunnies or squirrels. When we first got her and lived in our condo, I dropped her leash and told her to "go get it" as I wanted to see what she'd do. Nope, just lowered her head and stared at it until it ran up the tree.
Now, I know Fozzie wants to play with them  |
That is so sad about your bunny.  I think rabbits can go into shock rather easily.
Six of the dogs we've had were good with my rabbits. One rabbit, Barley http://www.oesusa.com/OurDog7.jpg , I had for about 7 1/2 years and they all liked to greet and lick her. Nikki, my sheepie-mix, would lie down and lick them or follow them around the yard (this dog-aggressive sheepie was so tender with wild animals and the rabbits)... Maggie did too. Emma would jump up on her hind feet to put her head in her cage every morning to say hello. But my Schipperke-mix is a completely different story. She's horrid with small animals... she has a very high prey drive. When we put the rabbits outside to play in a fenced play area, she would whine, pace and circle it. She would listen to me but you could tell she was a bundle of energy just barely in control of herself. I tried several times to hold Barley during introductions but it was like she was just waiting for the rabbit to take off so she could get her. I knew I could never reform this personality so I always made sure the rabbits were safe from her. My bunns are all at the Bridge now but a few months ago we found what our Schip would do if given the opportunity. She was let out one morning to go "to the fence" when she spotted a rabbit... unknown to my husband, she chased it down and killed it in a matter of a few minutes. She was so proud when she came back to the door and dropped it at my husband's feet. I think some dogs simply are more prey motivated than others... early training as pups might make a big difference but if you find your dog is like this at an older age, I think all you can really do to ensure this doesn't happen is to keep them secure and safely separated. A small rabbit has no chance against a 60 or 80 pound dog... or in this case, a 45 pound bratty Schip.
Jaci |
| Marianne,
I won't say much but...that is no way to train. Sorry. I would find another trainer...and fast. there are ways to show a dog who is boss and to get them to listen to you...throwing chains at the butt of your dog is NOT one of them...I recommend you read any of The Monks of New Skete books...or Volhard's training books...you'll have a problem on your hands if you continue this type of training...and a dog who is afraid of you and afraid of coming to you... Sorry... Diane |
| That original post is a couple of years old... |
| One thing I have noticed about this forum is that the users seem to be quick to "judge" what "is" or "is not" correct in our eyes.
How about just reading and taking in one another's input. You don't have to criticize it publicly. The whole idea of the forum is to get a wide array of "ideas". I quit posting opinion and utilize private messages because of members who are quick to criticize. If we were all the same, it would be one boring world. |
Kim wrote: One thing I have noticed about this forum is that the users seem to be quick to "judge" what "is" or "is not" correct in our eyes.
How about just reading and taking in one another's input. You don't have to criticize it publicly. The whole idea of the forum is to get a wide array of "ideas". I quit posting opinion and utilize private messages because of members who are quick to criticize. If we were all the same, it would be one boring world. You're right, if we were all the same it would be boring, and we would never make any progress. However, if we all kept our own opinions and ideas to ourselves we would never learn anything and never make any progress either. |
| Willowsprite,
My post says "I quit posting opinion..." I did not say that others need to do the same, especially when someone is asking for a solution or opinion...however, I did say "You don't have to criticize it publicly". The forum should be an area that we can all have input and not be "put down" for our opinions. |
Kim wrote: Willowsprite,
My post says "I quit posting opinion..." I did not say that others need to do the same, especially when someone is asking for a solution or opinion...however, I did say "You don't have to criticize it publicly". The forum should be an area that we can all have input and not be "put down" for our opinions. There is a difference between an opinion and giving advice. Just like folks looking for a pup...if someone sounds like they are heading towards a BYB and all the signs point to it then I don't see any problme with letting them know what is wrong with that....and then giving advise on what to look for. By NOT responding it not being fair to the poster, or anyone who may be reading it.... For example: Someone might say "In my opinion, dogs with blue eyes are normally blind". That is stated as an opinion, but it is wrong. It would only makes sense for someone to point out that this is not true. If nobody did, then anyone coming across this post may think it is indeed true. Nobody can be faulted for an opinion, but they certainly can become educated so that the opinion may possibly change. I am having a hard time explaining this...  |
| My observation has been, that for the most part, differnces of opinion on this board are very polite and respectful...as a person who has gained a lot of information from reading discusion-threads that are older, or that I dont feel comfortable joining in on, I'd hate to see all disent go into PMs! I think its VERY helpful to get multiple views and opinions! Thank you to all of you, you have been such a great resource! |
| Hi,
I actually agree with Ashley that was no way to train a dog and also have to say that post was three years old. I forgot about that long ago written post and now cringe at my advice. Where I previously spoke of Shaggy that incident took place 16 years previously - the Alpha Role is not suggested anymore and is "Old School". I now cringe at Merlin's experience with the trainer that happened 3 years previously and do not suggest this method either. Although to correct some of the misinterpretation the trainer did also state the from that moment on, simply ratting a small piece of chain hidden in my pocket would mean Merlin would appear at my side in an instant and never to allow him to see it was me doing it as that would make him afraid. His theory was the sound would instantly make him want to run to a safe place which was me - his mom. Merlin was the first pup that entered my home in 20 years and I thought this trainer had good results. I know now that teaching them recall is the choice I would make. I now do dog behavioral consulting and know better now. I often state it took 7 dogs and 20 years to get it right. Each dog went to obedience and after 7 various trainers over a 20 year period and seeing "trends" and various methods used I now get what works and physical punishment doesn't. Please note:It also was pre-Panda days and no way would this have ever done anything but harm him further due to his abuse. Nope with Panda is meant slow desesitization to his triggers and a year of consistently working with him daily. I'm a firm believer on allowing my three to see me as Alpha with firmness but never any physical punishment. Desensitization, gentleness, correction of unwanted behavior and showing behavior wanted with praise is the way to go. It takes consistency and patience. I would definately change my advice I wrote long ago. I think that post may have suprised people whom read it and I'm embaressed I even wrote it. No physical punishment ever! Marianne and the boys |
Marianne wrote: I think that post may have suprised people whom read it and I'm embaressed I even wrote it. No physical punishment ever!
Marianne and the boys I wasn't surprised. I always knew deep down you were a wild, violent beast.  |
| HA!!!
I guess deep down I'm still an Alpha B!! Nyuck Nyuck! Have to brag my proudest moment was returning home one day and my three were wild...I turned around and said SIT and all three did. 
Wild Colonial Girl..aka Marianne |
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