raised food bowls?
is it necessary to raise a sheepies food bowl? I thought I'd ask, because I wasn't sure if they were prone to gastric tortion- I think that's what it's called, when the dogs intestines can get twisted ? I know that some large breeds have issues with this, such as Great Danes, and wasn't sure if this was a problem with sheepies or not? Thoguht I'd ask! Karen  |
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| Hi Karen,
Yes, Sheepies our prone to gastric torsion, or bloat. I think that is the other name for it. Jack and Annabelle have raised bowls, but they still like to lay down at it if we are in there with them. 
Stormi and co. |
| Karen,
Yes - this is a concern for OES too! There are some discrepancies in what form of feeding (raised bowls or not) help in preventing Bloat. We happen to use the Raised Bowls (if only Sydney & Presley would eat something!) We got ours from Fosters & Smith Catalog (I think) - they are the black wrought iron ones - and we originally ordered the large - which Sydney & Brittney would have needed a step stool to reach - so we exchanged for the Medium - which I found to be a better size (Sydney is not a real OES - and she's a peanut). Kristen |
We've used a raised bowl set for Drez for about 4-5 years now. She loves it  - just has to bend her head down a little bit to reach. It used to look so uncomfortable when she had to bend her head all the way to the floor, only to have her food/water have to travel UP her neck before it could go back DOWN again.  We got ours at a local craft show. It sits about 6" off the floor. One of the best investments we've ever made for her.
Chris |
| I've heard both good and bad about raising bowls, and although I do not currently raise my girls' bowls, I may at some point in the future. I don't as of yet, because they mostly lay down to eat anyway. The best way to prevent bloat is to limit their water intake a little while they are eating, and don't let them exercise too much right after eating. Free feeding also does a lot to prevent it from being a concern at all as well, because they don't eat huge amounts all at once, they nibble throughout the day, eliminating the need to restrict water or exercise.
Bloat usually occurs when a dog eats a large amount all at once and drinks water making the food swell, the stomach sometimes twists on itself, preventing further digestion, gases and bacteria form, bloating the belly and often killing the dog. |
| Sofa was throwing up until we raised her plate.... No need to get fancy (Altough they look very nice), all we did was plop her plate on top of a soap box and now she's happy!
A raised water bowl ended up in very wet sheepies and non stop moping, so that one stays on the floor (They share). I'll vote in favor of raised plates, they seem to have an easier time with the kibble that way. |
| Hi,
I used a raised bowl for Shaggy the last year of her life and it made a huge difference as by age 15 she had bad arthritis. So I'm assuming most of you will probably use one when your sheepies age. I didn't buy anything fancy either but purchase a skid proof IKEA foot stool for a few dollars so the bowl wouldn't slide off. Interesting stuff about the Bloat however as I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the info! Marianne |
| thanks for the info guys! I will probably purchase a raised bowl when i get my pupper, to be on the safe side. Although I do currently free feed my kitties, I'm not sure how it works with dogs... The ones I've know wolf down any food they're given without a second thought. Would someone like to share some tips on that with me?
Karen |
| I "free feed" Presley & Sydney and I wish I didn't! I can never tell which one has eaten and how much they've eaten. I guess it would be easier for only one dog - but if I were to start over I'd feed at scheduled times (I think it's easier to housetrain that way too)!
Kristen |
| I've read a couple of bad things about free feeding - 1 is purely that if you have more than one dog, you can't monitor how much they're eating, so it's not as easy to tell if they're off their food or if there's something wrong with them - but I only have one dog so I can't say if that is actually a problem or not!
The 2nd is in terms of the pack status - when free feeding, the dogs aren't aware that you are their provider and that they depend on you. It's as if the floor feeds them (?!). As I've never free fed a dog, I don't know if anyone has ever experienced any problems with it. I can never really tell how much is practical and how much is overhype! I'd never really thought much about the raised bowl issue but after reading these posts, am definitely giong to consider it. I'm very much a member of the 'better safe than sorry' brigade!!! |
| I have raised bowls now they are about an inch off the floor. My sheepies would leave food in their bowl and our cat at the time would eat some of it. Right now there is food in Oreo's dish and later I will add more to equal the 3 cups he eats each day. As puppies I would pick up the bowl after about 15 minutes or so I could calculate when they would poop. Once they were grown it was up to them. Feeding dry food makes this style easy. One time Oliver had a milkbone resting on his paw and he fell asleep and our cat very gently pulled it away from him, Oliver woke up and then went back to sleep. My dogs have not been chow hounds. |
| All my sheepdogs bowls have been raised .My first dog couldn't eat without it been raised if he did he was sick 10 mins after feeding time.
If anybody is friendly with their local take- a- way shop find out if they use the giant mayonaise tubs.These giant tubs make great raised platforms for the stainless steel bowls.You can cut a hole in the tub to sit the dish in. Best of all they are free  |
| While the mechanism of bloat (gastric torsion) is reasonbly well known the contributing environmental factors are still open to much debate. I used to lurk on a Newfoundland list and bloat is a big issue with those dogs so their community has tried just about everything you might imagine to minimize their incidence of bloat. However for each study that supported raised bowls there was another that decried it. In the end though I got the "impression" that more Newfs were fed from raised bowls than were not and that group suffered a lower rate of bloat.
Bloat is one of those "bad feeling" issues which I have tried to guard against with our boys. Feeding minimally swelling foods, trying to keep the dogs calm before and immediately after eating and limiting water intake/temperature at meal times are all aspects of bloat control which meet with virtually "universal" support. We also feed our boys from raised bowls, not so widely accepted. Instead of spending what I felt were exhorbitant amounts on flimsy and freestanding (hence unstable and invariably underfoot) commercially available raised bowls, I purchased shelf standards, brackets and material to build custom feeding "tables". I mounted 24" high shelf standards on the wall, at stud locations - secure them well because you'll be surprised how much abuse they receive when the dogs run around and play - such that the lowest bracket position results in a table surface about 6 inches off the floor. Shelf brackets and shelving materials are 12" wide so that the bowls are fully supported with a bit of shelving in front of them to minimize the potential for knocking the bowls over or off their "tables". Since my tables were melamine coated particle board I also used non-skid shelf liner material to stop the bowls from sliding around. With this arrangement I was able to raise the bowls with the dogs as they grew. Now at maturity Martin and Virgil's table surfaces are about 14" off the floor, this is approximately their "elbow height". As such they simply lower their head to their food and water bowls. They don't have to spread their feet "a la giraffe" style which also helps keep their elbows, wrists and feet straight and free of strain nor do they have to "stetch their necks down which prevents neck discomfort. (I have tried various heights and this is clearly the boys prefered level.) You don't want to go much more than elbow height with standard heigth bowls (about 4 inches high on a 10" diameter bowl) otherwise the dogs will have to bend their neck in an uncomfortable bend to be able to feed from the bowl. If your dog bowls are particularly shallow (say 2") then you might find a slightly higher table height is suitable. Subjectively I have noticed a reduction in the amount of "air gulping" associated with feeding and drinking when using tables. The boys don't need to take their food from the bowl with the front teeth and then "flip it higher" and catch it further back in their mouths which was the practise with my prior OES' and Afghan Hounds. Another advantage of this is that each dog now has their own "food territory" and grazing between bowls is minimized. One of the funnier aspects of this is that Martin Zephrams table is about 30" long at the 14" height, then the combined Afghans table (Farouk Bashir and Brigham Batai) is about 48" long and 18"high and finally Virgil Tiberius' table ends the row at 14" high and 24 inches long. The whole array is usually good for a strange look and perplexed questions from our rare visitors, especially if their bowls are not on the tables. (I can send a photo privately if anyone is sufficiently interested in seeing the arrangement to apply to their own dogs.) Cheers Carl |
| One other point I glossed over, sorry.
It is most commonly the stomach that twists, not the intestines in a case of gastric torsion. When this happens the blood supply to the stomach is cut off and the stomach literally dies within a couple of hours hence killing the dog if untreated. Surgery, if obtained quickly enough, will save the dog by untwisting the stomach and literally sewing it to the abdominal structure to prevent a recurrence (most often successful but not always). My understanding of "bloat" per ce, is that it is a consequence of gastric torsion. The stomach swells due to digestive gases not being able to escape as the food is partially digested. Cheers Carl |
Iriskmj wrote: Although I do currently free feed my kitties, I'm not sure how it works with dogs... The ones I've know wolf down any food they're given without a second thought. Would someone like to share some tips on that with me?
Karen I think it depends on the dog, whether you can free feed or not. Cooper would do just great, Lizzie would eat as long as there was food out. Needless to say, I don't free feed either of them. Because of Lizzie's tendency to be a glutton, and because she is on a special diet, I have to keep them separated for feedings! |
| Hi Carl and All,
Thanks for the great food bowl advice. Carl, if you get a chance, could you pm me with your food stand pic? I'm pretty handy, and I was thinking of doing a shelf anyhow. Can I ask what you are feeding your boys? I'm not sure which foods would help minimize swelling- is that an ingrediant or processing issue? Also- how would you recommend limiting water intake- should you only fill the water bowl slightly during feeding, and then fill the bowl later, after eating? What temp should the water be at? Room temp, or cool? Karen |
| Karen,
Here are a few photos of our boys' "dining tables". 
I have used the "double row" brackets and shelf supports even though they are more expensive because these shelf supports don't "wobble" side to side. Thus they stay perpendicular to the wall preventing the table as a whole from "swaying". Remember to make sure the shelf supports are a bit shorter than the shelf is wide so there are no protruding sharp metalic edges or pinch points to catch on the dog's legs, chest etc. Photo two shows one support with an anti-slip material as an extra precaution to stop the shelf from being knocked off under normal use. 
If you use the less expensive and more widely available single row shelf standards and supports you will need to machine a slot on the underside to stabilize the table. The slot needs to be the same width and depth as the "nub" at the end of the shelf support. Photo 3 shows this arrangement being used in my woodshop. 
As to limiting water intake we only put water out at meal times and periodically throughout the day when the boys tell us they want some or if we feel they need it in hot or dry weather conditions. At meal time we wait until they have actually finished nost of their food and are asking for their drink. At that point we give them a couple of cups of water each. We find that our boys do best with water a little less than room temperature. Very cold or even chilled water, especially in very hot weather or after heavy exercise can cause cramps and for our boys will invariably come back up in just a few minutes. Cheers Carl |
| Nics pics, Carl.
I like the way you made a channel for the brakets in the third shot. When you say "machined", can I assume you used a router? Did you set up and clamp down a straightedge as a guide? Perhaps you used a table saw and made a couple of passes? Nice touch with the non-stick rubber. I'm sure that does a good job. With the double studs, I suppose you could screw the shelves down actually drilling into the bracket. Probably overkill. Thanks again! |
| Thanks Carl! That's really helpful! I'll tuck that one away for future use!
Karen |
| Ron and all,
I could have made the slots with a router, a straight cutting bit and guide or router table but instead I used my table saw, and as you said, took two passes to give the appropriate width. For - me - the table saw is a better choice, especially if I were to use it for a longer shelf like the table for our Afghan Hound boys. I find the larger table surface gives better support and the fence is a better guide. Either way though is equally effective. In these double brackets there is actually a screw hole at the end to help secure the shelves. However, I recommend against screwing the shelves to the brackets to make it easier to remove the shelves for routine cleaning. Easier for us anyway. Cheers Carl |
| Carl, I was just wondering... and I'm sorry if you've answered this before...
I know that Martin Zephram and Virgil Tiberius are male OES, and Farouk Bashir and Birgham Batai are male Afghan Hounds, but what are Gidget Nerys and Josephine Salia? |
| WillowSprite,
Gidget Nerys is our chihuahua and is "big" sister to everyone except Martin Zephram. (Big being defined in terms of age, oldest is biggest.) Josie Salia is the baby of the family being a Papillon just over 1 year. Yep it is a good starter pack, more to come when we get a decent place for them all to run!! Cheers Carl |
Carl Lindon wrote: Karen, Here are a few photos of our boys' "dining tables". I have used the "double row" brackets and shelf supports even though they are more expensive because these shelf supports don't "wobble" side to side. Thus they stay perpendicular to the wall preventing the table as a whole from "swaying". Remember to make sure the shelf supports are a bit shorter than the shelf is wide so there are no protruding sharp metalic edges or pinch points to catch on the dog's legs, chest etc. Photo two shows one support with an anti-slip material as an extra precaution to stop the shelf from being knocked off under normal use. If you use the less expensive and more widely available single row shelf standards and supports you will need to machine a slot on the underside to stabilize the table. The slot needs to be the same width and depth as the "nub" at the end of the shelf support. Photo 3 shows this arrangement being used in my woodshop. As to limiting water intake we only put water out at meal times and periodically throughout the day when the boys tell us they want some or if we feel they need it in hot or dry weather conditions. At meal time we wait until they have actually finished most of their food and are asking for their drink. At that point we give them a couple of cups of water each. We find that our boys do best with water a little less than room temperature. Very cold or even chilled water, especially in very hot weather or after heavy exercise can cause cramps and for our boys will invariably come back up in just a few minutes. Cheers Carl |
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